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[Chiramii]

another nintendo console...another fail.....

That's the spirit!

 

[PdotMichael]

Because there's only one SKU being developed, they can put the resources that can normally be put into another SKU into an original game. The new game and the old game combined might outsell the two SKUs of a handheld and console version.

Also, curious, if you think Nintendo's going to go with a standard disc drive, what do you think of their patent of a disc driveless console? Do you think it's just not going to get implemented?

The developement process wouldn't change that much what we have already on the PlayStation ecosystem. You will still need to develop specific versions for handheld and console, while also the use of specific hardware futures or hardware power would make impossible in the first place.

Nintendo can streamline the process with making cross platform games so easy as possible but one SKU or several SKUs will not suddenly increase your target group.

And patents are just patents.

 

[Celine]

Yes and?

It doesn't change that the UMD was from a production cost point of view the better storage. And at the end only the NDS and the Gameboy with all the revisions in more than 10 years sold more than the PSP.

Production cost matters until a certain point.
Putting a mechanical drive in a handheld device starved for power was a stupid move.

Also it's not clear what PSP final LTD was.

 

[PdotMichael]

i'm not knocking the psp, but having umd wasn't something that gave it the edge on its competitor. to the contrary, it didn't seem to be much of a factor at all. right now in japan, companies are making vita/ps4 games after having made vita-only and vita/ps3 games (and vita/psp games). if cards were that big of an issue, i doubt the platform would have so much support.

maybe a better example of this is the 3ds itself. capcom stopped making psp monster hunter games despite them looking kinda similar to 3ds games, and instead focused on making the series 3ds exclusive for the generation up until now. and this was them ditching discs for cards. i don't think it mattered as much as the size of the userbase did.

Pretty sure that game cards vs UMD wasn't the reason why Monster Hunter went to the 3ds.

There were all kinds of reports and threads on Neogaf which talked and reported that the pure production costs of the storage for the PSP was significantly lower than for the NDS. Which helped the PSP to sustain a level of support.

That the success of a handheld is the result of more than one factor is obviously.

 

[AniHawk]

The developement process wouldn't change that much what we have already on the PlayStation ecosystem. You will still need to develop specific versions for handheld and console, while also the use of specific hardware futures or hardware power would make impossible in the first place.

Nintendo can streamline the process with making cross platform games so easy as possible but one SKU or several SKUs will not suddenly increase your target group.

And patents are just patents.

a single sku is so much easier on the publisher. imagine you're a crazy person and you're making a game for the ps vita, ps3, and ps4. then imagine you're doing it for the us/na and europe/pal. now you get to develop coversheets, manuals, and submit materials and roms to scea, the scee, pegi, usk, and oflc for all appropriate skus. you might have a minimum of 20 submissions to all departments versus maybe 7. this is on top of testing, where you would need roms per version to be checked. meaning a bug in one version of the game might not be in another version of the game. it's a pain in the ass and a huge time sink.

 

[Caramello]

The developement process wouldn't change that much what we have already on the PlayStation ecosystem. You will still need to develop specific versions for handheld and console, while also the use of specific hardware futures or hardware power would make impossible in the first place.

Nintendo can streamline the process with making cross platform games so easy as possible but one SKU or several SKUs will not suddenly increase your target group.

And patents are just patents.

No the bolded isn't correct based on what Iwata has said in the past.

“To cite a specific case,” he concluded. “Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models.

“The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples. Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment.

“However, we are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another, and we believe that we will be able to deliver tangible results in the future.”

i.e. There will be some sort of cross compatibility between all future Nintendo devices so that code and other assets will be easy to port across where this is not the case between PlayStation systems.

 

[AniHawk]

Pretty sure that game cards vs UMD wasn't the reason why Monster Hunter went to the 3ds.

yes.

that's my point.

 

[Markoman]

For me there are 3 possiblilities right now when looking at the stationary console:

1. Slightly more powerful than WiiU, but cheap (150-200$) = unlikely and maybe DOA because 100% no 3rd party support

2. As powerful as Xbone/PS4 @ 250$-300$ = sounds reasonable but then the only differantiator would be the hybrid functionality

3. More powerful than PS4 @350$ (Fall 2016 Xbone:250$, PS4_300$) = recommended: will create hype because it's the most powerful console out there

...and I don't see MS pulling the plug on One early as a reaction to that. Even when they get a 1 year head-start over the PS5 - after that year they will still have the weaker console once again. A 360 vs. PS3 situation is unlikely to return in that generation.
MS is not able to release a next gen console in 2017 with software that drives sales. Halo 5 is released in a week, so a possible next-gen Halo will take 3 years development time at least. Gears will be released in 2016/2017 and so on...

I see two major scenarios:
a) when NX fails - MS and Sony won't even notice and continue doing their thing and Nintendo is forced to do something drastic
b) NX will cause some sort of motion > MS has to react then Sony has to react to that

 

[Plinko]

For me there are 3 possiblilities right now when looking at the stationary console:

1. Slightly more powerful than WiiU, but cheap (150-200$) = unlikely and maybe DOA because 100% no 3rd party support

2. As powerful as Xbone/PS4 @ 250$-300$ = sounds reasonable but then the only differantiator would be the hybrid functionality

3. More powerful than PS4 @350$ (Fall 2016 Xbone:250$, PS4_300$) = recommended: will create hype because it's the most powerful console out there

...and I don't see MS pulling the plug on One early as a reaction to that. Even when they get a 1 year head-start over the PS5 - after that year they will still have the weaker console once again. A 360 vs. PS3 situation is unlikely to return in that generation.
MS is not able to release a next gen console in 2017 with software that drives sales. Halo 5 is released in a week, so a possible next-gen Halo will take 3 years development time at least. Gears will be released in 2016/2017 and so on...

I see two major scenarios:
a) when NX fails - MS and Sony won't even notice and continue doing their thing and Nintendo is forced to do something drastic
b) NX will cause some sort of motion > MS has to react then Sony has to react to that

Scenario 2 is my prediction here except maybe a touch stronger than the other current platforms.

 

[Oregano]

In fact it would even kill off the sales of the hardcore users who would buy more than one sku.

There is no real argument why one shared library would lead in better software sales in a way that all the multi Playstation cant do.

Well I think the idea is that they could improve the margins on production instead. Right now in the PS ecosystem you're still producing or three skus on two or three formats.

If the games are on flash carts then there will only be one SKU.

Oh that's what I'm arguing for. It's a somewhat pointless venture just to make multiplatform stuff.

 

[CaviarMeths]

The problem I have with the idea of the Smash Bros route being the plan is that we've already seen that it mostly means one just cannibalises the other. In fact we've seen the same with most PS ecosystem games where the sales have just been split, rather than increasing.

I think Nintendo is going to view its entire hardware division as a consumer portal to their storefront. What's important is being able to sell one piece of hardware to the consumer, not two. As we can clearly see from the difference between Wii U and 3DS hardware sales or PS4 and PSV sales, the number of "hardcore" fans that must buy both systems is insignificant.

The platform split isn't really that big of a deal if it's just one game with one budget you're developing.

It would make owning both SKUs completely redundant. At least if the games are completely universal the consumer has the benefit of not having to buy new software if they decide to buy the other hardware.

Which I think is a decent marketing point to tell consumers.

 

[PdotMichael]

I'm not sure if people are aware that the power gap and architectural differences between console and handheld - or Nintendo males the console hopeless underpowered, makes one sku concept not realistic.

Or maybe people want a library of Vita tier up ports, which makes the console even more redundant.

 

[Diffense]

It'd be a manufacturing/consumer disaster to have 2 lines of manufacturing for each game.

I don't think every game that works on both console and portable will be distributed on two different types of media (and I don't think every game will work on both. Some will be exclusive). All games will be available digitally and on the physical medium that makes sense for what the primary device is. If the game's a portable game, the physical medium will be a cartridge. A huge Zelda for the home console will come on a disc.

Probably they could give a cartridge slot to the home console to make it compatible with portable media. N64 had the TransferPak and Gamecube had the GBA player. Maybe they should just build in the compatibility.

I doubt that they're going fully digital and it would be risky to ditch optical media for HD games so I expect a solution that's somewhere in the middle.

 

[Oregano]

I'm not sure if people are aware that the power gap and architectural differences between console and handheld - or Nintendo males the console hopeless underpowered, makes one sku concept not realistic.

Or maybe people want a library of Vita tier up ports, which makes the console even more redundant.

The architecture can be the same though and mobile and PC show how scalable software can be.

 

[Caramello]

I'm not sure if people are aware that the power gap and architectural differences between console and handheld - or Nintendo males the console hopeless underpowered, makes one sku concept not realistic.

Or maybe people want a library of Vita tier up ports, which makes the console even more redundant.

There will be no major architectural differences between Nintendo's devices post NX. That's the point.

 

[Tregard]

I do wonder how many different "Forms" the NX may take. Of course it's starting to seem clear that there will be a handheld and home console form, but what else could it be in the future? Will the shared OS simply be used on a regularly updated pair of consoles? May we see a scale of different handhelds for different price points? Maybe a Nintendo tablet or Nintendo microsoconsole? Could the QoL device run on NX's OS?

This could expand in a variety of very interesting ways.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I always read it as Weekly Shōnen Jump too. Very annoying.

Glad I'm not alone in this.

 

[Markoman]

Scenario 2 is my prediction here except maybe a touch stronger than the other current platforms.

I agree, a slightly more powerful PS4
-1TB HD
- 8 GB RAM
- a better CPU
- slightly better GPU

might be enough to take some pieces of MS's cake. Then it may become the first choice as a secondary console for many people. BUT they won't touch Sony with that strategy.

 

[PdotMichael]

The architecture can be the same though and mobile and PC show how scalable software can be.

You can't scale down Witcher 3 to a $200 handheld that maybe should make profit from very first day.
It would only be possible with games which were designed for the weakest system in mind.

 

[Somnid]

I do wonder how many different "Forms" the NX may take. Of course it's starting to seem clear that there will be a handheld and home console form, but what else could it be in the future? Will the shared OS simply be used on a regularly updated pair of consoles? May we see a scale of different handhelds for different price points? Maybe a Nintendo tablet or Nintendo microsoconsole? Could the QoL device run on NX's OS?

This could expand in a variety of very interesting ways.

I think the obvious one is being able to have VR device if and when Nintendo and that market is ready.

 

[NeonZ]

I'm not sure if people are aware that the power gap and architectural differences between console and handheld - or Nintendo males the console hopeless underpowered, makes one sku concept not realistic.

Or maybe people want a library of Vita tier up ports, which makes the console even more redundant.

Keeping two skus wouldn't change the situation at all from how it has always been though. It also wouldn't make sense with these development kits being distributed together if they're basically separate systems.

As long as they dump the dual screens for the portable, they should be able to pull something above Vita level by now as the handheld baseline. But, yes, it means that games running on console, even with higher resolution and other boosts, wouldn't look as good as natively developed PS4 and Xbox One games.

I think that's still the best choice though. You say that it'd make the console redundant, but that depends on the region. Iwata even made a comment about focusing on different form factors for different regions. In NA, even if the games just have higher res and some better textures and effects, we'd probably see the console selling more than the portable, while the reverse would happen in Japan.

 

[Oregano]

You can't scale down Witcher 3 to a $200 handheld that maybe should make profit from very first day.
It would only be possible with games which were designed for the weakest system in mind.

It's a good job Nintendo doesn't make The Witcher 3 then?

Also just because games are universal by default doesn't mean there can't be exclusives. There are iPad exclusive game and PC games have minimum specs requirements.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

You can't scale down Witcher 3 to a $200 handheld that maybe should make profit from very first day.
It would only be possible with games which were designed for the weakest system in mind.

Maybe not The Witcher 3 but if games are made to be scalable from the start, it's easily possible. Of course, many western third parties probably wouldn't be interested in doing this (at least at the beginning), which is why Nintendo could allow them to release games exclusively for the home console if they want to.

 

[Oregano]

One potential benefit actually is that the NX2 might then be powerful enough to run The Witcher 3 and it would be automatically available.

 

[LewieP]

2. As powerful as Xbone/PS4 @ 250$-300$ = sounds reasonable but then the only differantiator would be the hybrid functionality

The other differentiatior compared to previous Nintendo platforms would be roughly double the amount of first party games.

I reckon the NX home console will be a bit more powerful than Xbox One/PS4, but not much. The main reason to get it won't be power though, it'll be a boatload of Nintendo games. Then entire company will be supporting it with software (except for the mobile games division, and these games might come to NX too anyway), rather than splitting their effort between two platforms.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Here's a question for all of you; would you consider the NX (console and handheld) to be the first 9th gen systems?

 

[OrbitalBeard]

The other differentiatior compared to previous Nintendo platforms would be roughly double the amount of first party games.

I reckon the NX home console will be a bit more powerful than Xbox One/PS4, but not much. The main reason to get it won't be power though, it'll be a boatload of Nintendo games. Then entire company will be supporting it with software (except for the mobile games division, and these games might come to NX too anyway), rather than splitting their effort between two platforms.

lol you guys realize that if this doesn't happen (Nintendo supporting one platform with all of their games), the disappointment is going to be unbearable.

I'm really, really, really, REALLY hoping we're right.

 

[PdotMichael]

We don't even talk about stuff like hardware power. But control inputs like touch screen or the lack of buttons on the handheld.

It's a good job Nintendo doesn't make The Witcher 3 then?

Also just because games are universal by default doesn't mean there can't be exclusives. There are iPad exclusive game and PC games have minimum specs requirements.

There are more than enough Nintendo games which are supposed to pullout most out of the hardware like the new Zelda. So many games are CPU and ram bound that you can't scale it down with just lower resolution and less detailed assets but largr partd of the game would need to be reworked and redesigned from the ground.

 

[PdotMichael]

One potential benefit actually is that the NX2 might then be powerful enough to run The Witcher 3 and it would be automatically available.

I would want to shake hands with the engineers at Nintendo if they archive that with a low budget mobile machine in 2016.

Edit: oh we are talking about the successor of the successor now.

 

[Graphics Horse]

lol you guys realize that if this doesn't happen (Nintendo supporting one platform with all of their games), the disappointment is going to be unbearable.

I'm really, really, really, REALLY hoping we're right.

I'm confident of that part. I'm not sure about the part where home ver. is extra powerful just to appease 3rd parties who might not even want to show up in the first place.

 

[Markoman]

The other differentiatior compared to previous Nintendo platforms would be roughly double the amount of first party games.

I reckon the NX home console will be a bit more powerful than Xbox One/PS4, but not much. The main reason to get it won't be power though, it'll be a boatload of Nintendo games. Then entire company will be supporting it with software (except for the mobile games division, and these games might come to NX too anyway), rather than splitting their effort between two platforms.

I'll give you that, but do you think they should go for price-parity?
I don't know how the hardware market looks like, but is it possible to build a machine for 50$ more and make it noticebale more powerful (PS4>One = NX>PS4)

Edit:
Let's take games for example that run 1080/30 on PS4 and 900/30 on Xbox One.
Will it be possible in 2016 to build a machine that's 50$ more expensive than the PS4 that will run those games at 1080/60?

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I would want to shake hands with the engineers at Nintendo if they archive that with a low budget mobile machine in 2016.

He's not talking 2016, he said NX2. Meaning, games that would only run on the first NX home console might be able to run on the next NX portable a few years later and if you bought the game, you'd already have it available for you to play at no extra charge.

 

[NeonZ]

You can't scale down Witcher 3 to a $200 handheld that maybe should make profit from very first day.
It would only be possible with games which were designed for the weakest system in mind.

Have you seen some ultra low setting mods for pc? People have gotten it to run at between 20 to 30 fps in a laptops with very weak hardware, by basically sacrificing every graphical effect and reducing most textures to blurry messes. The RAM is really the big question though, I guess.

In addition to that, the actual issue is that they wouldn't want to release a version of the game that makes it look like crap, but, in this case, they'd have the console NX and could market only that version. It'd be just automatically compatible with the portable too.

 

[CaviarMeths]

We don't even talk about stuff like hardware power. But control inputs like touch screen or the lack of buttons on the handheld.

Two whole buttons, by my count. Clickable thumbsticks. Touch interface can easily supplant that. I've never liked L3/R3 anyway, especially when some dev thinks they're being funny by making me hold them down to run.

 

[sörine]

It's a good job Nintendo doesn't make The Witcher 3 then?

Also just because games are universal by default doesn't mean there can't be exclusives. There are iPad exclusive game and PC games have minimum specs requirements.

Basically this. Cross compatibility would be guaranteed to go one way (handheld -> console) but not necessairily the other (console -> handheld). Most developers (indies, mobile, Japan) would want to target the handheld spec first anyway and scale up from there. The big western pubs can port over their AAA to console spec only then, but this way even if they don't Nintendo's still ensuring a full library of content for the console anyway.

Also like some mentioned the console 1.0 spec can be a good marker for handheld 2.0 spec, helping to ensure the userbase continuity Nintendo wants to establish with NX.

 

[Candescence]

Speaking of the NX2, considering the NX handheld could well be in the Wii U spec ballpark (remember that the Wii U itself was optimized for low power consumption, ideal for handhelds), the NX2 handheld could potentially jump up to the NX1 console in terms of specs, depending on the affordability of parts for mobile devices. It'd certainly be interesting to see.

As for software, I imagine Nintendo would like to make plenty of cross-play games, with some exclusives sprinkled here and there, to make the lineups for both systems reasonably filled up. Considering all but maybe a couple of first-party Nintendo games aren't dependent on cutting-edge technical stuff, HD-level hardware for the handheld would be good enough for them as a baseline, with the console versions running better and having fancier visuals turned on. Many third parties won't see the same way, though, but most indies will likely be happy with working with the handheld.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Hopefully they aren't going with power in hopes of getting more multiplat games.

Because that ship has sailed. The userbase for those games are not on the Nintendo platform. Especially 3 years into the ps4/xb1 life.

Also, is wiiu officially part of last gen? Or is nx the next generation?

 

[sörine]

Here's a question for all of you; would you consider the NX (console and handheld) to be the first 9th gen systems?

Yes, NX is the start of 9th gen. Generations are going to get messier from here on out though as we see all the remaining console makers shift the idea of a platform from a singular closed box to things like a multidevice OS or streaming services.

 

[Kouriozan]

Hopefully they aren't going with power in hopes of getting more multiplat games.

Because that ship has sailed. The userbase for those games are not on the Nintendo platform. Especially 3 years into the ps4/xb1 life.

Also, is wiiu officially part of last gen? Or is nx the next generation?

NX will be gen 9.

Also, Nintendo is in a pretty awful situation, it's really damned if they do, damned if they don't.
3rd parties ran away because the Nintendo audience didn't buy their games, then Nintendo consoles were too weak to get multiplatform games (and still only bought 1st party game, see Ubisoft), and now they either have a powerful console and 3rd parties still sell really bad so they ignore it again, or it's too weak to get those 3rd parties games.

It's going to take TONS of effort to get Nintendo's audience to buy 3rd parties games again.

 

[sörine]

Two whole buttons, by my count. Clickable thumbsticks. Touch interface can easily supplant that. I've never liked L3/R3 anyway, especially when some dev thinks they're being funny by making me hold them down to run.

I wouldn't be surprised to see L3/R3 go away in NX, Nintendo themselves almost never use them and they were included only because 3rd parties asked. They probably need to stay though if Nintendo really wants to lure things like COD back.

I'd rather see analog L/R with button press upon full depression return honestly, if only for racing games and Gamecube Virtual Console. The only good design innovation on that system and no one followed up on it.

 

[LewieP]

I'll give you that, but do you think they should go for price-parity?
I don't know how the hardware market looks like, but is it possible to build a machine for 50$ more and make it noticebale more powerful (PS4>One = NX>PS4)

Edit:
Let's take games for example that run 1080/30 on PS4 and 900/30 on Xbox One.
Will it be possible in 2016 to build a machine that's 50$ more expensive than the PS4 that will run those games at 1080/60?

Far too early to try and guess what pricing/hardware configuration Nintendo will be targeting, but yes your example is certainly feasible imo.

 

[Markoman]

BTW: They really should use the name NX, because it carries many meanings
1. Next
2. X-over (see hybrid)
3. or simply roman "10" = short form of Nintendo 10

If I'm leaving out Virtual Boy, Gameboy Colour, and Handheld revisions NX is Nintendo's 10th console, amirite?

1.NES
2.SNES
3.Gameboy
4.N64
5.Gamecube
6.DS
7.Wii
8.3DS
9.WiiU
10. Nintendo 10=X

 

[mdtauk]

BTW: They really should use the name NX, because it carries many meanings
1. Next
2. X-over (see hybrid)
3. or simply roman "10" = short form of Nintendo 10

If I'm leaving out Virtual Boy, Gameboy Colour, and Handheld revisions NX is Nintendo's 10th console, amirite?

1.NES
2.SNES
3.Gameboy
4.N64
5.Gamecube
6.DS
7.Wii
8.3DS
9.WiiU
10. Nintendo 10=X

You missed the GameBoy Advance

 

[Gnilres]

BTW: They really should use the name NX, because it carries many meanings
1. Next
2. X-over (see hybrid)
3. or simply roman "10" = short form of Nintendo 10

If I'm leaving out Virtual Boy, Gameboy Colour, and Handheld revisions NX is Nintendo's 10th console, amirite?

1.NES
2.SNES
3.Gameboy
4.N64
5.Gamecube
6.DS
7.Wii
8.3DS
9.WiiU
10. Nintendo 10=X

Oh shit in that case NX just would literally just stand for "Nintendo X(10)"

 

[Dead_Pixel]

BTW: They really should use the name NX, because it carries many meanings
1. Next
2. X-over (see hybrid)
3. or simply roman "10" = short form of Nintendo 10

If I'm leaving out Virtual Boy, Gameboy Colour, and Handheld revisions NX is Nintendo's 10th console, amirite?

1.NES
2.SNES
3.Gameboy
4.N64
5.Gamecube
6.DS
7.Wii
8.3DS
9.WiiU
10. Nintendo 10=X

Sorry, you're missing the GBA.

 

[Zalman]

BTW: They really should use the name NX, because it carries many meanings
1. Next
2. X-over (see hybrid)
3. or simply roman "10" = short form of Nintendo 10

If I'm leaving out Virtual Boy, Gameboy Colour, and Handheld revisions NX is Nintendo's 10th console, amirite?

1.NES
2.SNES
3.Gameboy
4.N64
5.Gamecube
6.DS
7.Wii
8.3DS
9.WiiU
10. Nintendo 10=X

GBA isn't there. It's a myth. I've heard this so many times but it makes zero sense.

 

[sörine]

It can also be argued the Color Game TV series and Game & Watch series were Nintendo's gen 1/2 consumer platforms. They really didn't start with NES.

 

[Jonneh3003]

What I'm hoping for is a more diverse game library as development studios wouldn't be making individual iterations for handheld and console ie Mario Kart 7 and 8. It does however have me a little worried, handheld and console gaming are very different mediums, handheld games are meant to be enjoyed in quick bursts and console games are for long sittings generally. Won't this obstruct the flow?

 

[Oregano]

We don't even talk about stuff like hardware power. But control inputs like touch screen or the lack of buttons on the handheld.



There are more than enough Nintendo games which are supposed to pullout most out of the hardware like the new Zelda. So many games are CPU and ram bound that you can't scale it down with just lower resolution and less detailed assets but largr partd of the game would need to be reworked and redesigned from the ground.

As said by others already the N3DS only lacks click able thumb sticks and Nintendo doesn't even use those. Otherwise the inputs are identical to the Wii U.

As to the other point Nintendo's biggest games have been developed at the Wii U spec which is achievable on a mobile device.

3D Zelda has been more popular on the handheld and they sure as hell aren't developing a 3D Zelda at Wii U spec AND one at PS4 spec.

 

[Markoman]

You missed the GameBoy Advance

Shit, you guys are ruining it!!!!!

NX should have been WiiUs name! Those idiots at Nintendo Marketing!!!!!!
Ok, how about this: let's name it NXI !!! Nintendo 11

Nintendo r u listening???

PS: Before someone manages to pull out another Nintendo machine out of nowhere:

NXii = Nintendo 12