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Xbox One blocks used games. Offline Pass confirmed

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LCfiner

Member
what are you going to do when every console supports this shitty, anti-consumer business model? stop playing games entirely?

Sure. Gaming is not as big a part of my life as it was in my twenties. I don't need to give money to companies that I disagree with.

Personally, if it's found that PS4 has the same restrictions, I won't get a PS4 and I'll end up getting a couple games on PC here and there during the bigass steam sales.
 
Do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to jail

4Nukk.gif
 
Sure. Gaming is not as big a part of my life as it was in my twenties. I don't need to give money to companies that I disagree with.

Personally, if it's found that PS4 has the same restrictions, I won't get a PS4 and I'll end up getting a couple games on PC here and there during the bigass steam sales.

what if you want to sell your used steam games though?
 

KingFire

Banned
The common arguments are that Steam is an "open platform" (it is certainly more open than consoles, though not completely open) and that prices are better and there are more frequent sales (largely as a result of being more "open").

The problem is that we don't know how "open" these new consoles are going to be. People are comparing Steam to what the Xbox/Sony marketplaces are now. Will they be "open" enough to let publishers release a game when they want, and at whatever price they want? I don't think anyone knows the answer to that.

It might take a little while for Microsoft and Sony to adapt, and you could see the consoles become more open later on if that becomes a significant revenue driver because of price differentiation. If games are allowed to be cheaper on one versus the other - dunzo for the one with pricier games.

Exactly.

Remember, Steam used to suck ass when it first launched. The service was shitty and it basically was a bad DRM. While Xbox Marketplace prices are currently high, maybe that will change because of the elimination of the used games market. In other words, they will offer sales more often and open the markets to indie and big publishers. Of course at this point we don't know yet.

I think it is too early to jump to conclusions right now. I also think that it is extremely hypocrite to cry, "WAHAH NO USED GAMES!!!1!" and then log into your Steam account to play some games. Using Steam, you basically have no rights and you can't sell/own shit. It is all owned by the service.
 

Fey

Banned
I'm not poor but I'm not going to support this type of shitty business model that takes away convenience and basic consumer rights for lending or renting games.

This is my problem. When you buy a game (particularly with what they're priced at), it's your property, you should be able to sell it or give it away or whatever you want. This policy effectively ends that.

And I don't know if this was cleared up or not ... so if you give the game away and someone else installs it, does it uninstall for you?
 
I'm "ultra-super rich"(lol, no) but I never buy any used games. Literally, I don't.

FUCK all of this non-sense though. You are a pretty big asshole to call people names over this stuff and a bigger asshole for defending it.
I don't buy any used games anymore, but I do sell a lot of games once I'm done with them and I always apply that money towards new games.

At best, I'll be buying probably half the amount of new games, or I'll wait for them to get their prices slashed in half or more before I buy. I know I'm not the average consumer but I have a feeling that from a business standpoint all this stuff is not going to work out great for MS and the 3rd party publishers.
 

Liberty4all

Banned
From Phil Harrisons comments that's really what it sounds like. But the fact they aren't saying explicitly right now tells me they aren't even close to having all the necessary deals in place so it will probably never happen.

I think that MS wants to cash in. Even if it means cutting the publishers in.

its about cutting Gamestop out, taking the used market for themselves.
 
Exactly.

Remember, Steam used to suck ass when it first launched. The service was shitty and it basically was a bad DRM. While Xbox Marketplace prices are currently high, maybe that will change because of the elimination of the used games market. In other words, they will offer sales more often and open the markets to indie and big publishers.

I think it is too early to jump to conclusions right now. I also think that it is extremely hypocrite to cry, "WAHAH NO USED GAMES!!!1!" and then log into your Steam account to play some games. Using Steam, you basically have no rights and you can't sell/own shit. It is all owned by the service.

I find it interesting MS hinted you can trade in your digital licenses. I don't really know why they'd allow that but if they do it I can see Valve using their Community Market to let people resell games too.
 

andthebeatgoeson

Junior Member
Why do i have this feeling that despite all the meltdown, most of the people in this thread will eventually buy one anyway?

Not sure why you get that impression. Did you feel the same way after Sony announced $599 US dollars? It's pretty palpable how dangerous this tactic is. I hope they reconsider.
 
Games are software. I assume you don't think you have a right to resell all software you purchase? IIRC you're quite the Apple fan, do you feel aggrieved that you can't resell any expensive app purchases you've made? Or are they different because they're lower priced so your "basic consumer rights" don't apply?

This is inevitable, man. Physical media is dying

This doens't make it ok...and if thats the case then go to a DD only system.

The fact that you are buying something physical is what changes the dynamic.

as for me personally, I just want to see what they do about rentals and resales. That's how I play a lot of games and try out games. Dragon's Dogma is one of my favorite games of all time. I rented it because the demo was ass....ended up buying it.

This proposed system would mean that I don't play it more than likely. Fuck that.

On Steam or appstores, I am more willing to take a leap because shit is 10 dollars. Guess what retail games are often 10 dollars? Used ones. And If I didn't like it...I could get some money back.

Regardless...this isn't good for the industry...

Only sure things will sale...how is that good for anyone but the publishers of that game?

Do you work for a publisher or something? I don't understand how someone can shill for something that fucks over the simple ability to let others borrow your shit.
 
Why do i have this feeling that despite all the meltdown, most of the people in this thread will eventually buy one anyway?
It's possible. Or the launch of the system and game sales could be very underwhelming. It could go either way. Strong negative consumer reactions do sometimes translate into serious issues for companies.
 

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Tried to fix the design of the thing a bit and make it a more interesting to look at I guess

fgdgdg.png

I will admit, I do like the look of the console, I think it's sharp. Just not the policies that come with it.
 

Dartastic

Member
Used games do the following:
  • They allow people at a very low investment risk to branch away from their select few titles and try new games. This means that used games allow the consumer to become part of a market that was once too exclusive for them thus growing said market into a more stable brand for later titles.
  • DLC still can be purchased on current gen used games. This means that instead of limiting a single physical copy of a game to just one person in potential DLC sales each title can be resold to the consumer market innumerable amounts of time to get more DLC sales per physical unit. In other words DLC lets publishers penetrate used games for sales more than new games. Used games account for 1/3rd of the business in the industry currently.
  • A used market creates a resale market allowing consumers to sell back their old titles. The majority of games resold have been documented to go toward the purchase of NEW games and consoles. In other words the used market is helping the consumers to be able to afford to buy new games and hardware. Remove the resale market and many wont be able to afford new titles or systems.

By eliminating the used market through the methods Microsoft is trying to do they will likely cut down on some piracy and they will guarantee all profits go to them and the developer, but they will be MASSIVELY shrinking the size of their markets as most cannot afford to reside exclusively in the new game market's price point level.

What they have done is effectively ignore the law of large numbers in business. "More coming in than what is lost" is how insurance companies and bank's thrive. Microsoft has bottle necked their market so tightly that they have vastly reduced their market in favor of a near 100% revenue model. 100% of a much smaller market still isn't as good as allowing the HIGHLY profitable used market to continue on their console. 1/3rd of the profits in the industry are from the used market and its completely incalculable how much this will hurt them with consumers let alone developers in the long run.

Who ever came up with this business model was not only blind to resale business markets, but they were absolutely wreckless in ignoring the consumer's reaction to this topic this past year.

Plus if this was a way to attack piracy I'd say it will backfire. The more unattainable you make it for the consumer to receive something they want the more you popularize piracy and the more you empower pirates to find ways to steal and distribute your goods.

Gabe Newell gets that...apparently Microsoft doesn't.
Dark times ahead for both gamers and developers at this rate as the industry is about to lose some money.
Quoting because this is spot on, and it's exactly what I wanted to post. There's no way I'm buying an Xbox One at this point.
 
Oh woah. I really hope this blows up between now & E3. If the community can force a retraction on this policy live on stage, it will be goddamned legendary.

I don't think they're going to completely abandon the used market though. There are users out there who are accustomed to buying their games at a discount price. If Microsoft wants to keep that audience (and keep them paying the subscription fee for Live), they will need to either allow used games for a lesser fee - or offer Steam-esque sales.
 

mrgone

Member
I want Adam Orth back. All this anti-consumer lunacy would be easier to take if it were coming out of that guy's twitter account.
 

Tom Penny

Member
Why do people believe Sony won't do the same thing? Why would they only want their cut from MS with this strategy? Not really logical.
 

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
To people like DaveMeltzer.....console games are not quite comparable to PC games. They're historically plug-n-play, they don't require the same steps a PC game does, they're rentable and loanable whereas you can't rent PC games and loaning them is complicated nowadays. So I guess your argument is that you don't mind if all that goes away, and becomes a vestige of the past? Steam is great, but there's a damn good reason people want console games to stay their own thing and not become like that.
 
People own themselves when they say "I own this product it's MY IP and I created it" paraphrasing of course but come on

"I can't believe these companies would not allow me to play used games."

If they can effectively stop you from playing new games, used games, or digital anytime they see fit, clearly it's time to wake up and understand that you never owned the game. You bought a $60 license to play that game that is the creation of someone else. We don't own these games. We never will.
 

Iztli

Member
Exactly.

Remember, Steam used to suck ass when it first launched. The service was shitty and it basically was a bad DRM. While Xbox Marketplace prices are currently high, maybe that will change because of the elimination of the used games market. In other words, they will offer sales more often and open the markets to indie and big publishers. Of course at this point we don't know yet.

I think it is too early to jump to conclusions right now. I also think that it is extremely hypocrite to cry, "WAHAH NO USED GAMES!!!1!" and then log into your Steam account to play some games. Using Steam, you basically have no rights and you can't sell/own shit. It is all owned by the service.
What makes you think MS would do something so consumer friendly? I mean Live is basically a glorified P2P with insane amounts of adds and yet its still $50 a year.
 
XBLA games on 360 are already account bound and not system bound. Why would games on the new Xbox suddenly become system bound?

They are certainly bound by BOTH on the Xbox you originally purchase the XBLA game on. This means any other account can play the game on the system it was originally purchased on. The way this is being described is even more restricted, not that I think we have the complete picture yet.
 
To people like DaveMetzler.....console games are not quite comparable to PC games. They're historically plug-n-play, they don't require the same steps a PC game does, they're rentable and loanable whereas you can't rent PC games and loaning them is complicated nowadays. So I guess your argument is that you don't mind if all that goes away, and becomes a vestige of the past? Steam is great, but there's a damn good reason people want console games to stay their own thing and not become like that.

the console and pc markets weren't necessarily comparable. shit rarely remains the same and often changes. get used to it.
 
For the people who are saying RIP Gamestop....

I dont think you guys realize how influential they are. Millions of people walk into their store in December and ask the "experts" "What do I get my kids for Christmas?"

All Gamestop has to do is simply direct their associates to do everything in the power to get people to buy the PS4 and Wii U. They dont have to worry, MS does.

And Best Buy is also getting into the used game. They can do the same thing.
MS would be insane to go about this unilaterally. Either they know Sony is going to do something similar or they know they're getting special treatment from the third party pubs.
 

LCfiner

Member
what if you want to sell your used steam games though?

I know I can't. I also know that I can upgrade PCs and the games will still work. I know I can play them in offline mode. I know I sure didn't pay $60 for them. (look at the prices of xbox on demand games if you think MS will have lots of online sales)

I know the point you're trying to make. it's the point all people who try to equate steam to this new console model are trying to make. but it's not entirely the same. part of it is the cost of the games, part of it is the openness of PC hardware and part of it is the openness of the PC itself (but not steam). There are other storefronts and places to get games on the PC if I was not happy with Steam. but on the consoles? nope.

Another part of it is that Valve has done enough over the years for me to trust them at least a little bit with making one time purchases. But MS? I don't trust them with this kind of power over how I can lend and resell stuff I buy.

If they're going to take away the ability to do something I can already do with consoles and disc games, they need to convince me that there are positive tradeoffs elsewhere. so far, they haven't done this.
 

bj00rn_

Banned
Why do i have this feeling that despite all the meltdown, most of the people in this thread will eventually buy one anyway?

I know I will. Looks like the Xbox One has the potential to be a fantastic media center. The thing is, I'll probably buy most my games on the PS4*

(*Well, actually PC, since that's my main gaming platform. Point still stands though)
 

Metalmarc

Member
sony is our savior until they announce the same thing. when that happens we're all just going to say fuck it go to steam.

Im actually going steam and retro , im not kidding last week i bought 19 original xbox games and a old xbox, and im fully aware i cant play them online ah well, at least i can play single player modes and vs bots in timesplitters, so glad i disnt sell my ps2 either, one day i plan to buy my first n64
 
To people like DaveMeltzer.....console games are not quite comparable to PC games. They're historically plug-n-play, they don't require the same steps a PC game does, they're rentable and loanable whereas you can't rent PC games and loaning them is complicated nowadays. So I guess your argument is that you don't mind if all that goes away, and becomes a vestige of the past? Steam is great, but there's a damn good reason people want console games to stay their own thing and not become like that.

People can want it, but seeing as I find PC vastly superior to consoles for reasons such as digital libraries and not having to fuck with discs, I find it hard to see being able to trade in games for half the money you paid in the first place as a benefit.
 

Bloodwake

Member
sony is our savior until they announce the same thing. when that happens we're all just going to say fuck it go to steam.

I fully expect them to announce something similar.

This is my assessment of this console gen

Settle for Less (Wii U)

Willingly get Anally Raped to play games (Xbox One, potential PS4)
 
Say goodbye to ever preserving these games.

Want to lend a game to a friend? Fuck you, pay me.
Want to lend a game to your little brother? Fuck you, pay me.
Want to rent a game? Fuck you, pay me.
Want to play a game after the activation server dies? Lol. You're fucked.

Oh man...I'm dying. Hahahahahahaha!!
 
I loved MS in the beginning. They were all about the gamer, and for the first half of the 360's life cycle it was an amazing machine. Having owned all the consoles, it was by far my favorite of last gen. Now I feel like MS is cashing in all of that good will to the determent of the consumers - the reason they're even in this market to begin with. They are now fully in league with the publishers.

It'll be pretty sad if Sony is forced to follow the same policies.

I hope the market pushes back against this.
 
People own themselves when they say "I own this product it's MY IP and I created it" paraphrasing of course but come on

"I can't believe these companies would not allow me to play used games."

If they can effectively stop you from playing new games, used games, or digital anytime they see fit, clearly it's time to wake up and understand that you never owned the game. You bought a $60 license to play that game that is the creation of someone else. We don't own these games. We never will.

This would never stand in the movie industry. If Junior's DVD only worked on the first DVD player he inserted it there would be a special session of congress called to undo that shit pronto. It's only because the games industry is still seen as the domain of kiddies that no one in legislature really cares.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Accidentally posted this in other thread meant for this one, but apparently Xbox Support says no fee, then pretty much says "oh wait."

https://twitter.com/XboxSupport/status/336936354913071104

No fee according to Xbox Support on Twitter.

Kotaku article linked.

Xbox Support: "We're gathering details on the specifics. We'll have clarification soon."

Sounds a bit like they're saying "Oh wait, our Twitter post about no fee might be wrong."
 

dr_rus

Member
Wait, people are seriously comparing Steam to Xbox One used games money extortion scheme? The fuck? That's like the complete opposite positions on the scale of user friendliness.
 
So are games tied to someone's account or are they tied to the console? It's sounding like it's tied to the console.

Probably both. Tied to the console so games can be played without an internet connection, and tied to xbl account so games can be played via other consoles.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Wait, people are seriously comparing Steam to Xbox One used games money extortion scheme? The fuck? That's like the complete opposite positions on the scale of user friendliness.

Some people will use any excuse, as long as their company of choice looks better.
This is a dramatic shift in a market that grew up with rental and used games, to compare it to another completely different market is sad.

Edit:

This being said, Sony can go fuck themselves if they do the same.
 
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