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[Dosia]

Those "features"/restrictions also don't affect me either. The biggest factor for me, however, is how weak it is compared to PS4. Worst of both worlds.

Yup. If it gets downclocked and gimped more, ps4 here I come!

 

[perineumlick]

You and others like you wringing your hands and clawing at your face are acting like this is the first time a company has done something it's customers disagree with.

It's either going to work out for Microsoft or it won't. (Sony as well but not as many have seemed to figure out they're going to do the same thing)

Comments like "We deserve better than this." only serves to give ammunition to games journalism that will invariably try to paint us as entitled whiners. It shows a remarkable lack of perspective and wisdom.

I didn't say you are stupid. I said it makes you look stupid. You've been on GAF for quite some time. You're capable of more than this.

Bish?

 

[Storm360]

Might be worth those in the UK contacting Watchdog http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchdog_(TV_series)

They've researched Microsoft before for Xbox

 

[brian!]

yeah I'll be sure to tell my grandparents, thanks

 

[Syphon Filter]

it does have drm. I lost internet due to a car wreck the other day and i couldn't play any of my steam games. Why was that?

what game? its possible it had 3rd party drm but most have no drm. i have steam offline on my laptop since 2004 and still can play them, that laptop was never connected till this day.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

Game journalists have been calling us entitled whiners for ages. Why would that matter now?

Because right now, a number of people are indeed acting like entitled whiners.

Bish?

What's a Bish?

You mean the mod?

Christ no.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Its a forum.

I take it you won't be participating? Thanks for your input though! We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[dmg04]

Steam is on an open marketplace with competition that drives prices down.
You also don't need to connect online to play your offline games after purchasing them once.
You also have backwards compatibility.

Xbox One offers NONE of these things.

Steam is also something you download to your PC. Entirely different than console.

 

[brian!]

i will not allow my grandparents to experience the nightmare of an xbox one christmas morning

 

[XtremeXpider]

Steam is on an open marketplace with competition that drives prices down.

There are not competition, Steam is steam, there are not more marketplaces. The games launched at full prices, just like consoles.

You also don't need to connect online to play your offline games after purchasing them once.

You're wrong, you need to turn on the offline mode first, and offline mode need internet connection for be activated.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Because right now, a number of people are indeed acting like entitled whiners.

If being able to buy/sell/trade as I please is now being "entitled", then I'll gladly own that label.

 

[maquiladora]

you can actually trade in games or give them away on XBONE.

If the 3rd party publisher gives you permission you can trade in that game at a Microsoft approved retailer only and you can give a game to someone in a one time only transfer to someone who has to be on your friend list for at least 30 days, again only if a 3rd party publisher allows this.

Remeber the days when you could just sell a game on ebay or give it you your friend at work to borrow after you cleared the campaign? Man those were fun days. It was almost like I actually owned that game and didn't have to read 3 page FAQ to find out what my permissions were.

 

[perineumlick]

Because right now, a number of people are indeed acting like entitled whiners.



What's a Bish?

You mean the mod?

Christ no.

No, I mean are you on the Bish list?

 

[mjc]

None of the stuff in the OP worries me.

 

[AxelLund]

Now it's upto Sony to finish the game.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

If being able to buy/sell/trade as I please is now being "entitled", then I'll gladly own that label.

You still can buy/sell/trade. Just not on the Xbone. (or PS4 inevitably...invariably?)

Statements such as "We deserve better than this." is precisely something that someone entitled would say.

No, I mean are you on the Bish list?

Don't know what that is.

A list of people that need to be banned?

If so...not sure.

 

[Syphon Filter]

There are not competition, Steam is steam, there are not more marketplaces. The games launched at full prices, just like consoles.



You're wrong, you need to turn on the offline mode first, and offline mode need internet connection for be activated.

there is a lot of market places actually. origin,battlenet,amazon,gog,d2d,etc

 

[WanderingWind]

If being able to buy/sell/trade as I please is now being "entitled", then I'll gladly own that label.

Wait, so you're saying you want to own the stuff you pay for? Entitled! Blurgh!

 

[TomcatTheLion]

I gotta say it's going to be very difficult to find an internet connection that doesn't ever go down though if I do get an Xbox One.

Its a forum.

Right.

 

[BocoDragon]

No, I mean are you on the Bish list?

I'd be very surprised if Bish listers are not some of the voices in this thread.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Here is a little visual analogy for all the DRM apologists out there:

Seriously people! Stop trying to convince yourselves this is the future and we have no choice.

We do have a choice. We just need to make our voices and more importantly our WALLETS heard. The only thing I wonder about is if these DRM apologists even care about their own consumer rights. Some of these guys seem to not only tolerate these moves, but ostensibly support them. I seriously have to wonder about the impetus of such a person.

Do you like losing your rights?I would just like to see one of these people explain their vehement support of M$ on this.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Because right now, a number of people are indeed acting like entitled whiners.



What's a Bish?

You mean the mod?

Christ no.

It's not entitlement to expect the same rights I have with all of my other physical media, and have had with video games since I starting playing them. If anything it's entitlement from the publishers expecting special rules because they don't have the ability to make their own business profitable.

 

[RedNumberFive]

You still can buy/sell/trade. Just not on the Xbone. (or PS4 inevitably...invariably?)

So be it. I just want to make sure that others are aware of this as well. If you're fine with these DRM schemes, great! I'm not telling you how to spend your money, nor am I telling others. I think the facts speak for themselves.

 

[RSTEIN]

Do you like losing your rights?

You can't lose something you never had in the first place.

 

[see5harp]

I understand the difference between getting a great deal on steam and paying $60 for a retail game but I find it funny a lot of posters were saying they'd just buy the Respawn thing for PC. I don't see that as being any better as far as DRM is concerned.

 

[XtremeXpider]

there is a lot of market places actually. origin,battlenet,amazon,gog,d2d,etc

Oh, Ok, I got it, you're right.

 

[Htown]

You and others like you wringing your hands and clawing at your face are acting like this is the first time a company has done something it's customers disagree with.

It's either going to work out for Microsoft or it won't. (Sony as well but not as many have seemed to figure out they're going to do the same thing)

Comments like "We deserve better than this." only serves to give ammunition to games journalism that will invariably try to paint us as entitled whiners. It shows a remarkable lack of perspective and wisdom.

I didn't say you are stupid. I said it makes you look stupid. You've been on GAF for quite some time. You're capable of more than this.

1. They can paint us any way they want to. It's long been obvious where the checks are coming from and who they're going to.

2. The only lack of perspective here is your expectation that consumers should take up arms and fight against their own interests.

 

[pixlexic]

If the 3rd party publisher gives you permission you can trade in that game at a Microsoft approved retailer only and you can give a game to someone in a one time only transfer to someone who has to be on your friend list for at least 30 days, again only if a 3rd party publisher allows this.

Remeber the days when you could just sell a game on ebay or give it you your friend at work to borrow after you cleared the campaign? Man those were fun days. It was almost like I actually owned that game and didn't have to read 3 page FAQ to find out what my permissions were.

its not like they just decided to give the publishers this control out of no where. with Years and years of piracy something was bound to happen.

But I look at it as a giant experiment. I want to see what happens. Its like all the guys who argue for and against piracy and used games finally get a answer,

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

So be it. I just want to make sure that others are aware of this as well. If you're fine with these DRM schemes, great! I'm not telling you how to spend your money, nor am I telling others. I think the facts speak for themselves.

I'm not saying it's not fucked. It's pretty fucked.

But unlike some, I'm just going to sit back and watch it all unravel for Microsoft...or not. Who knows for sure these days?

2. The only lack of perspective here is your expectation that consumers should take up arms and fight against their own interests.

And you do that by not buying what they're selling. That is pretty much the only thing companies like Microsoft listen to.

 

[DJ88]

What the hell? Am I on a different forum? A couple of weeks ago almost everyone was completely flipping out over all these things during the Xbox One reveal and starting a massive twitter campaign. Now everyone's saying these things aren't a such big deal and they don't care. It's like a wave of level headedness and logical thinking has washed over this place.

 

[dmg04]

Seriously people! Stop trying to convince yourselves this is the future and we have no choice.

We do have a choice. We just need to make our voices and more importantly our WALLETS heard. The only thing I wonder about is if these DRM apologists even care about their own consumer rights. Some of these guys seem to not only tolerate these moves, but ostensibly support them. I seriously have to wonder about the impetus of such a person.

Do you like losing your rights?I would just like to see one of these people explain their vehement support of M$ on this.

What the hell rights are you talking about?
You agree to the terms of use. You follow their rules.
If you aren't into their rules, don't buy their fucking console.

 

[WanderingWind]

"piracy and used games."

As if these are the same issue.

 

[TimeEffect]

Doesn't the blurb about selling to friends apply only to digital trades?

...Don't tell me you literally cannot trade physical games more than once... Wtf?

 

[hwy_61]

"piracy and used games."

As if these are the same issue.

They are in the eyes of the publisher.

 

[WanderingWind]

They are in the eyes of the publisher.

Then the publisher is a fucking idiot.

 

[jet1911]

I have better things to do with my time than trying to convince people how to spend their money.

 

[MrDanger88]

I don't care about any of this

 

[hwy_61]

Then the publisher is a fucking idiot.

haha, yeah.

 

[Heart Attack]

What the hell? Am I on a different forum? A couple of weeks ago almost everyone was completely flipping out over all these things during the Xbox One reveal and starting a massive twitter campaign. Now everyone's saying these things aren't a such big deal and they don't care. It's like a wave of level headedness and logical thinking has washed over this place.

Last week a lot of Junior Members accounts were approved. Supposedly some of them are corporate shills hired to do damage control for microsoft.

 

[Enectic]

Personally this doesn't really bother me. Obviously (by my avatar) I do game on OnLive quite a bit and that's 100% cloud gaming. I also use Steam and Origin frequently. If you feel strongly about this though then definitely voice your opinion.

 

[hwy_61]

Last week a lot of Junior Members accounts were approved. Supposedly some of them are corporate shills hired to do damage control for microsoft.

LOL

 

[MrBud360]

.

Welcome to Steam world my friend. I love it!!!

 

[SlowRevolution]

:lol why are some people leaping into this thread to make it clear just how much they don't care and don't want to be included?

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

Then the publisher is a fucking idiot.

And when Microsoft is allowing the publisher to decide just how limited our options are as a consumer.

If people are even reasonably smart with their purchases...it'll potentially knife the publishers AND Microsoft. It'll be glorious.

 

[BocoDragon]

*sigh*

The reason the XBox ONE Kinect is a mandatory part of the system isn't part of an Orwellian scheme to watch you sleep and monitor you for malicious thoughts. There's a minor chance it could be used to "data mine", which really only means that it'll monitor your skin's pigmentation during certain ads, to see if you're "engaged" with the product. But there's a high chance that tech might not even work, and if that data would even be useful to advertisers. Frankly, there's nothing to say that you can't just point the damn thing at a wall & cover the microphone with tape.

It's a required part of the system, because that's the only way Microsoft can convince developers to use it. Remember the earliest model 360s? The ones that didn't contain hard drives? That decision ended up biting Microsoft in the ass at the tail end of this generation, because developers had to compromise their games. They couldn't rely on a hard drive being present in the system, which made making huge games like Halo 4 a complete nightmare.

They aren't going to fuck that up again with the ONE. There will be a Kinect in every box, and so it's impossible for an SKU without a Kinect to even exist - it's a mandatory part of the architecture. But it's absurd to think that the Kinect will need to see you in order for the console to function. New Kinect might be miles better than the past version, but I'd bet good money it'll be far from 100% foolproof. This is the same reasoning why we'll never see the "Only x amount of people are authorized to be in the room to watch this content" patents come to fruition, because they're comically easy to trick.

Bundling Kinect in with the box would have been enough to entice developer support (like the headset, etc). But even if that's what always-on Kinect is "really for" (to which I'd say "if you say so..."), they're still going to be collecting consumer data like crazy. It will happen whether they are enthusiastic about collecting that data or not .....and I assure you, as someone who has worked in marketing and market research: they are very enthusiastic about collecting that consumer data. The potential value there was surely used to internally justify the purchase and development of the Kinect tech in the first place. How many people are in the room, where their heads are pointed during ads and movies, how they respond emotionally to ads and movies.... it's a gold mine of information.

And let's not forget "Say McDonalds!"

 

[ipitydatfu]

Read their webpage. There will be no loaning or renting of games at launch.

 

[jtb]

:lol why are some people leaping into this thread to make it clear just how much they don't care and don't want to be included?

it's a discussion forum...

 

[Wizman23]

Please get "WE" out of your OP. I don't give a shit about any of those things that are according to you destroying our beloved hobby. Hopefully all of you boycotters live by me so picking up an XBOX ONE on launch day will be a piece of cake.

 

[8byte]

Blog post I wrote (wall of text warning). All of my own opinon, and clearly some info may be wrong, as I'm not closely involved with the industry. Just an enthusiast on the outside, looking in.

With the recent reveal of the Xbox One's privacy features, licencing model, and the looming information pending from Sony, it is important we ask ourselves how we got here. What happened with our beloved industry that caused us to end up at this point. Was it the surge in used game sales, cutting publishers and developers out of the picture? Was it the uptake in piracy as internet speeds and technology became readily available. If we are now at the point where basic consumer rights of ownership are being infringed on and bent, then there clearly must have been a catalyst. If we have pushed, then this must be the push back, and it is important to know where it came from.

Now, outside of used games, piracy, or any other factors, I want to look to development studios, publishers, and metacritic first. All three of these are largely responsible for their own successes or failures. When metacritic came to fruition and rose as an ever important piece of our industry, publishers took note. Consequently, they began to build their publishing deals with stipulations and conditions pertaining to metacritic scores. This puts unnecessary pressure on a development studio to do one of two things:

1) Take the big risk. Keep true to your vision, create your game, and do the best you can. Brave the uncharted waters with new angles on classic mechanics and see if it takes off.

2) Chase the industry fads. Find what's popular, focus test, build your game by the numbers, and check the boxes. Hopefully this will yield a decent metacritic score, which could translate into bonuses, continued investments into your IP, and hopefully sales.

Now, the problem with the first scenario is how risky it is. Publishers are investing tens, possibly hundreds of millions of dollars into your project. If you fail, you fail HARD, and it could really put a stain on your studio. Likewise, with a new IP, or new idea, you'll need great marketing. Word of mouth is fantastic, but as we've seen with Sony titles, that slow upstart in sales with just word of mouth can be extremely daunting. How do you balance your risks with your marketing budget, and your perception of your title? If things start out negatively for your game, how do you win that back? Can you abandon ship? It's a very risky game to play.

With the second scenario, in all instances you're more than likely going to end up with something that is a solid product, but may not be stand out from the crowd. Looking at titles like Army of Two, Medal of Honor, Dantes Inferno, and many others...this is often the case. Your product can be solid, but without marketing, pizzazz, and something unique, you're ultimately just going to "get by" or worse.

The big issue I have here is that a lot of titles are released, marketed, and abandoned like clock work. Publishers take small calculated risks, and then blame the consumer when the titles fail, yet hold these studios to near impossible standards due to an aggregate website. No studio truly wants the pressure of fearing a 75 as a score, or being shut down / sold because their game didn't meet targets. In addition to this, publishers are entirely too cozy with the enthusiast media. Showering them with gifts, review copies, press invites, etc. While I understand the importance of providing your product to outlets to spread the word, it is also worth noting that this skews the "scale" of their ratings. For the last 10 to 15 years, most games are judged on a scale from 7-10, while these outlets claim their scale is from 1-10. In all likelihood, this is because publisher relations are important to the survival of the enthusiast press, thus smaller passable games are viewed as "terrible" because they're at the bottom of the normally used scale...7.

What about budgets? How are publsihers approaching their approval process or projects? With so many games green-lit annually, and so few being "breakout hits", it is hard to imagine how a publisher comes to the conclusion that they should publish a title, but more importantly, that they should publish it and sell it for $60. I can name probably one or two dozen titles from last year that had absolutely no reason to be $60, as that effectively puts them in competition with the best of the best, and immediately makes them invisible to the knowledgeable consumer. Gamers aren't exploring box arts, more importantly, neither are casual gamers. They're reading Game Informer magazine, looking to see what has the most marketing in their local GameStop, and talking to the clerks behind the counter to be fed whatever opinionated nonsense they can. Your price tag is the barrier. If the clerk says "this game is good, but this game is also good" and they both share the same price tag, but one is plastered all over the walls of the store...what do you think they're gonna buy?

Frankly, the industry has backed itself into a corner with poor practices, lack of elasticity, and an absence of focus. Unfortunately, this has been pushed over to us, the consumer. We are now expected to bite the bullet, to pick up the slack for Publishers, so they can continue to do what they do: All of the wrong things. Used game sales aren't the problem. Piracy isn't the problem. If Dead Space 3 needed to sell 5 million copies to break even / justify it's existence as a franchise, then no amount of cutting used sales or removing piracy was going to make that game wildly successful, nor was it going to increase the profit margins for it. EA, you did it wrong. "AAA" games are the problem. Frankly, we need MORE b-tier titles at $19.99-$39.99. Those titles have small budgets, small expectations, and bigger profit margins (as those price ranges hit a wider audience). We need less investment into super bowl ads, prime time commercials, or UFC ring space. We're in an age of always connected devices. Hulu, Amazon, Google, even the consoles themselves...the advertising spaces are there, where gamers see them. We need to break our relationships with the enthusiast press. Stop coddling them, and stop letting them hold you by the balls. You want to remove the problems with metacritic? Start putting together better (and more) demos that show off your product in new and meaningful ways. Don't sell us on trailers with cheesy rock / dubstep tracks and quick cuts of what your game looks like, let us REALLY see the game.

Publishers would have you believe that these policies will result in "cheaper games" and "savings for us all" much like Steam. The key difference here, however, is that Steam is an all digital platform, for the most part, with few physical releases. They've worked out some incredible developer relationships, and removed publishers from the equation. Why are we, the consumer, expected to take these ideas at face value? Are they nothing more than empty promises? If publishers haven't felt the need to pass the savings on to us at this point in the generation, when development costs are falling, as middle ware and engine optimization is at its peak...why are we to believe that a new generation, with new R&D, new engines, bigger development teams...all of these things, and this is going to save us money? I'm sorry, but I just don't buy it. You're in it for money, not good will. Try investing your money better, managing your studios, teams, and projects better. Maybe then, you'll make more money, and it'll be easier to pass the savings down. Until then, this is all just hot air.

I fear, however, that these thoughts are all too late for us. The industry has moved, and we as consumers won't be able to shift it back. This is where things are going. Microsoft, nor Sony, felt the need to step up to publishers and tell them "No, you need to get your act together". Instead, they bowed to their pressure, as one or the other didn't want to be without those important multiplatform games, becoming another Nintendo (whom I love). This is unacceptable, as the publishers, in effect, have held them, and us by consequence, for ransom. Our rights are being held over us, and for what? So publishers can take more risks? As unfortunate as it sounds, this is a capitalist economy. If your products aren't performing to standard and your studio faces closure, you probably suffered some deal of mismanagement, be it on the end of the publisher or developer. Removing used game sales, trades, or rentals from the equation (or hampering ones ability to do so at will, easily and without restriction) will not save this industry. It will not make things easier. You will still suffer the same mismanagement, you will still be guessing, trying to nail the movement and evolution of gamers tastes and the industry. That is the nature of the beast.

So, publishers, don't hold us by the throats and tell us this is for our own good. We know that's a crock of shit. This is for YOUR own good, but ultimately, you're too short sighted to be any wiser. You will continue to eat at your own tail, until you've consumed yourself, and we won't be around anymore to bail you out, it'll be too late. You can fix the symptoms all you want with your demands for these policies and infrastructures, but until you fix the cause, you'll still end up in ultimately the same position. Declining stock value, studio closures, and shitty metacritic scores.

 

[ZeroEdge]

Honestly if your OK with this then fine buy the system and games but I think GAF should have a policy where if you buy into this shit now then later on you cannot post a thread whining and bitching about how you paid good money for a game and then couldn't play because the DRM server check failed or the servers went down or it's stormy out and now you lost Internet and you can't play a game to kill time cause guess what no check in. If you do post a thread like this after knowing all these shitty policies up front it should be an insta ban on your GAF account. I bet member count would drop real quick lol.



Also I did my part and shared this on various social media sites, etc. #NoDRM #teamAmir0x