DirgeExtinction
Member
I mean, if a regular player plays this game, without changing the gamma settings, will it actually look like that throughout the whole game? Geeez.
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Xbox One's Scaler May Be Applying a Sharpening Filter to All Sub-1080p Games
- Thread starter madmackem
- Start date
I feel dumb for not knowing this...so if I'm on a 55 inch 1080p TV, I shouldn't be using Full RGB if the output of the game is 720p? Do I need to turn it back to full when I'm playing 1080p games like Forza? Or should I just always leave it to limited.
Yes, that's correct, you need to change the gamma as high as possible because the game forces you to or else you're stuck with darkness, lol.
DirgeExtinction
Member
Holy crap, that's horrible. How don't review sites mention this? Even people who do "Let's Play"s don't seem to mention it.
Off topic: how would I know if my HDTV supports limited/full rgb?
GravityMan
Member
Hah. Most game reviewers probably don't know what sharpening even is.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Grayscale test patterns. You can get them on Blu-ray. Some games have them in the options menus, too.
boredandlazy
Member
So is this fixable in a firmware update? Or are people stuck with this for the lifetime of their console?
It's likely fixable, that doesn't confirm that it will be fixed however.
HoodWinked
Member
its software so it can be changed through software.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Almost certainly fixable. But if history is any indication, the chances aren't good.
DirgeExtinction
Member
I wish I knew, the game asked for gamma settings before I even started the story mode.
And I'm not sure about that stuff.
I have no idea, when I took screenshots of 360 games I didn't even have this problem. No crushed blacks or anything like that.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
The most convenient way would be looking at online patterns using your console's browser. There should be the same number of bars in the scale on limited and full. If some on the ends lump together then you have a problem.
There were issues, but much more subtle, and no sharpening.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-hdmi?page=3
My DR3 looks nothing like that and I didn't adjust any of the settings at the start
Your eyes won't regret this:
LOL. WTF is this? I can't even make out what's what. How are you supposed to hit the zombies? I hope there's no friendly hits on this game (ie. accidentally hitting people you're supposed to protect) because that'd suck bad.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
RGB range has nothing to do with resolution, it's simply the range of colors possible in the signal being sent to your TV.
An RGB signal has three color components: red, green and blue. A certain pixel is given its color by a combination of various amounts of these colors. If we're talking about the full RGB range, each of these components can take on a value from 0 to 255. Thus, pure red would have the values (255, 0, 0). Black is (0, 0, 0), and white is (255, 255, 255). Etc.
With limited range, the possible values are instead 16 to 235. That means that when your TV (if it only supports limited range) gets the values (16, 16, 16), it will display that as the blackest black it can. Similarly, (235, 235, 235) will be displayed as the brightest white the TV can produce.
Now, what happens if you feed that TV a full range signal? That signal will contain values all the way from 0 to 255. Now, this TV already displays (16, 16, 16) as the darkest black it can, so what would (4, 4, 4) or (9, 9, 9) result in? The exact same blackest black, when they should really be displayed as various shades of dark grey. The same problem happens at the upper end of the scale, with values over 235. Thus, you lose all detail in very dark and very bright areas. Instead of detailed shadowy areas you just get large blotches of complete blackness, which is known as "black crush".
So the solution is to feed the TV a limited range signal. In such a signal the original range of color values (0-255, which is what the consoles work with internally) is compressed into a limited range (16-235). Every color value is shifted to the proper relative value in this smaller range, so that what was originally 0 becomes 16, what was 255 becomes 235, etc. So now the TV gets a signal it can actually display properly, and what should be dark grey is no longer displayed as pure black.
So yes, if your TV doesn't support RGB full range (which most TVs don't) your console(s) should always be set to RGB limited range, no matter the resolution.
(Sorry about the looong explanation, I just think more people should understand what's actually going on here!)
If the XBO is giving the same crushed blacks with both full and limited range, then it would seem that instead of compressing the color range into limited range like it should, it's just "chopping off" the lower and upper parts so that all information in very dark or bright areas is simply lost (the same result as feeding a full range signal to a limited range TV).
Chobel
Member
Post screenshots so we can compare
cartoon_soldier
Member
Seconded.
I doubt MS will acknowledge an issue either though
They should get whatever upscaler Crytek used for Ryse and apply that to all games
Not even gamma?
Chance Hale
Member
My Dead Rising 3 doesn't look like that either without gamma adjustments. Don't have any sort of capture kit although I suppose I could take a picture with my phone?
cartoon_soldier
Member
How the hell MS didn't add a screenshot option is beyond me lol
Would have helped so much in such threads
Chobel
Member
Nah, we need screenshots from direct feed.
Can you use your TV to see screenshots posted by Timu? because probably your TV has something that enhances Xbox One output, so Timu screenshots should look exactly the same like your DR3.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Wouldn't a recorded clip work, just to see how it looks for him?
Thank you for taking the time to explain. This has been extremely helpful.
Chance Hale
Member
Meant more as a general view to show that the game isn't crushing blacks to the point of unplayability at default settings to me. And I'll try the Xbox One IE to check, recently moved my desktop to a desk/monitor setup.
Chance Hale
Member
Checked his Dead Rising 3 screenshot on my TV via internet explorer and it still looks crushed. His PS4 screenshots are fine so one imagines the Xbox One is playing some part in it but my game looks nothing like that. So woohoo I suppose!
List those settings!!!
Chance Hale
Member
Gamma at 6 blocks, RGB limited, 36 bits per pixel. And then obviously my various tv settings whose numbers will mean nothing out of context. T.V. is calibrated using one of those Spears/Munsil blu-rays.
Chobel
Member
Xbox One output is 1080p, right?
Chance Hale
Member
Yep.
Chance Hale
Member
The UI itself is in 1080P which is nice as I like clear text.
Chobel
Member
@ricochetguro Try now Killer Instinct screenshots and compare them to your KI.
You can find them here http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=722069
You can find them here http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=722069
cartoon_soldier
Member
If your games aren't running 1080p then scaler isn't applied right?
Chobel
Member
Does this means your Xbox One output was 720p in all these screenshots?
Ok I did his settings but decided to go the extra mile of doing different gammas from 6 to 10:
6:
7:
8:
9:
10:
6:
7:
8:
9:
10:
I think so.
Yes, I tend to play games at their native res.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Any chance we could get
with the new setup? That would be a very easy comparison
with the new setup? That would be a very easy comparison
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
That's why they don't have that gross sharpening on them.
cartoon_soldier
Member
John Caboose
Member
Took an off screen image to show off the sharpening effect. It's shit quality but someone else feel free to make a better one. I don't have the equipment.
Gamma isn't going to help you problem. You'll brighten the image a bit, but then you just wash out the saturation. The crushed black become lighter crushed grays. So you can see better, but you still can't make out any detail/texture detail in the blacks which is the real problem.
I assume you've checked you TV's setting to make sure both the XB1 and TV are set to RGB Limited? What model TV are you using BTW?
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
"It's just your TV, folks."