I would absolutely love for that to happen. Show everyone how underpowered the consoles were compared to the tech demos that developers like Epic revealed around their release. It would also show how much more power was needed to achieve the same fidelity.
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Xbox Project Scorpio Announced - 6TFlops, 320GB/s - Fall 2017
- Thread starter wachie
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Dee Dah Dave
Member
Wow some crazy predictions lol.
6.5TF might be on the table but I doubt we will see HBM memory. My main hope is an 8 core Zen CPU. Confirm it Phil!
6.5TF might be on the table but I doubt we will see HBM memory. My main hope is an 8 core Zen CPU. Confirm it Phil!
By definition, you've been able to do that every single console generation.
In fact, you can do that right now.
We already know it's not HBM2. 320GB/s is GDDR5X speeds.
Proelite
Member
HBM2 more likely than 8 core Zen. 8 core Zen is a desktop part and is massive. 200m2 at least. You expect the Scorpio APU to be over 450mm2 in size?
Samurai G0SU
Member
#CreativeChatter
#believe
The only reason i bring that guess scenario up is because a common thing im reading is that 6tf is nowhere near the amount of power they need to achieve high fidelity 4k native games. I dont want to downplay the power of 6tf, but it's hard not to get that stuck in my head when all these pc/tech enthusiests down[play 6tf as mid-range right now, today.
#believe
The only reason i bring that guess scenario up is because a common thing im reading is that 6tf is nowhere near the amount of power they need to achieve high fidelity 4k native games. I dont want to downplay the power of 6tf, but it's hard not to get that stuck in my head when all these pc/tech enthusiests down[play 6tf as mid-range right now, today.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
I don't know what to expect to be honest. The XB1 APU is ~370mm. What I don't expect is the same old Jaguar.
And sure, HBM is possible, but then the given renders and specs are entirely fictitious.
If it's $499 in Hol 2017 then I think it can pack some half decent hardware.
I can see developers targeting their games to Scorpio and then 'porting' over to X1 ccc of course this will only happen when the install base is large enough.
If they see a need for it, they could also patch the Xbox One / Scorpio OS to support seperate install discs and ship games on 2 discs.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
I think Scorpio / PC will absolutely become the lead platforms for development on the Xbox side of things.
720p/25fps Xbox One games incoming!
720p/25fps Xbox One games incoming!
The reason why they made Scorpio so powerful (6TF, blah,blah) is because they wanted it to correspond with PC 4K development. Phil mention 3rd parties already make high-end PC version of the their games with 4K assets. Those assets would be easily transferable to Scorpio with little to no modifications. So there is not much extra work to support Scorpio.
XB1 development will separate because the assets used are closer to PS4 than high-end PC.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Ok by me!
alternatively, they could add a thunderbolt 3(4?) port and allow us to connect an external gpu!
Leyasu
Banned
They are going to go all out on scorpio and everyone knows it. I seriously doubt that they will be investing loads into xbone ports.... Which is fine by me.
LukasTaves
Member
Phil said that they are still going to give all details, but basically if the developer has room it can put both set of assets on both discs, but if not they can make a content pack that is downloaded when the game is installed from disc, or if digital the store only downloads the proper assets for you.
LukasTaves
Member
4k is 4 times the resolution of 1080p.
Scorpio has 4.5 times the processing power of xbone.
So, scorpio is "better equiped" to do 4k than xbone was of 1080p, and without esram or any small pool to make large framebuffers an issue.
Gamezone
Gold Member
Yeah, but they shouldn't keep offline gamers in the dark, or those who can't connect online right away.
But I don't get how some developers manage to fill up an entire disc. Wasn't Witcher 3 almost half a disc? And that has to be one of the biggest games.
LukasTaves
Member
Ms had a different focus and priorities, when they decided to make a game to look as best as they possibly could Halo 4 happened, that not only offered incredible in game visuals, it also had impressive realtime cutscenes which ps3 games avoided like the plague.
As for GTA5, 360 actually had a better framerate and some minor details were better like reflections, but it had an streaming bug (that I have no idea that got patched) that caused textures to not load properly (but the bug could be avoided by installing on a external disc).
Indeed. There is a lot that is being taken for granted here. For one thing 6tflops is very much enough to do 4k at very good graphics level. Check out reviews of cards like the 390X and 980, they do 4k decently. Texture filtering will be so much better. Effects that rely on asynchronous compute will benefit massively, especially one that is resolution independent. There will be no restriction on framebuffer size as a result of no more ESRAM.
Take into account that this will be on a newer architecture...expect Forza 7 to run at 4k60fps.
Hawk269
Member
I agree. If they were not waiting on Zen, then what would stop them from launching this November or Early 2017? The reason I think that they are doing Holiday 2017 is to ensure that they can maximize the components that are going into the system and have the Zen as the CPU. I doubt it will have HBM, which if it did, they would of not mentioned the bandwidth speed of 320 already. All we know is that the GPU is 6tf, an 8core CPU and the bandwidth speed.
For those that are more into the technical side of things, taking into consideration testing, manufacturing, packaging etc. When would they have to have things locked down by to hit an October/November 2017 launch date?
Hawk269
Member
While I agree with you that Forza 7 will be 4k/60fps, but I don't think we will see dynamic weather, dynamic lighting etc. if they are aiming for 4k/60fps. That is a lot to ask for out of a 6tf machine. The one main thing Forza has been missing, well outside of some good AA is dynamic lighting/weather. I would most likely prefer 1080p/60fps, high level AA to eliminate jaggies, dynamic lighting/weather, AFx16, improve shadows, detailed 3d crowds and scenery and a field of 32 cars both on-line and off-line. With a 6tf system this could easily be done.
I'm still of the opinion that they shouldn't have bothered making the Xbox One S and just drawn a line under the Xbox One and start a new gen with Scorpio. The need for games to run on both Xbon One and Scorpio will seriously hinder the development of games going forward imo.
I agree. Games designed for compatibility with a <1.5TF machine will never be able to fully harness the power of Scorpio. And 6TF is enough power to get us games that look like Beowulf CGI in 1080p/30fps.
Proelite
Member
Forza 6 ran at 1080p 60fps on Xb1. Running at 4k 60fps only needs ~4 teraflops on the GCN 1.3.
You still have 2 teraflops left to do dynamic lighting / weather etc.
Scorpio eat games that runs at 1080p 60fps on Xb1 ALIVE. Same games will run at 4k60fps with better graphics, or in downsampled at 90fps on VR (free MSAA).
TheSpecialOne
Banned
Not with 12gb of ram and a 384 bit bus. It's GDDR5 memory and nothing more. Your talking about consoles here, the same companies that thought it was a good idea to use a sata 2 hdd in 2013.....
Honestly, there is a lot of baseless speculation and unrealistic expectations going on in this thread. Suggestions like hbm2 memory and 8core zen cpus etc... The only information we have is 6 tf gpu and the render. Based off that information, only a few things are certain. There's 12gb of g5 ram, there's a 384 bit bus and the gpu is either a Polaris chip or a heavily downclocked Vega chip. Everything else is unknown. We don't know what the cpu is, the hdd, the optical medial format(100gb bluray?), etc. I guess the most frustrating thing in this discussion is that a lot of the posts aren't educated guesses. No one seems to be accounting for tdp, soc size, potentially yields, controller costs, distribution costs, manufacturing costs, marketing costs, and there seems to be an optimistic view on component pricing. It makes it hard to have a serious discussion about the machine. The cost of the machine is not only the costs of the components. Microsoft may be willing to sell at a loss but certainly not to the level of the ps3.
You're not REALLY going to argue that any 360 exclusives looked better than the Uncharted games, or TLOU, or the Killzone games...are you?
CassidyIzABeast
Member
It would be competing with a console with a 40M install base whether it was a new gen or mid-gen. Either way you were going to get current gen games with ultra settings from everybody that wasn't first party.
Movalpolos
Banned
Agreed. I also don't see the point of no Scorpio exclusives. This seems like a generational leap. They need to make games tailored to the system with no compromise.
I think they'll happen. It's simply a matter of time especially with how large the delta between the Xbox One and the Scorpio will be in power available.
Hawk269
Member
I think you are being very optimistic about this. I have a 2xTitan X with I7 3930k OC to 4.8ghz, the 2xTitans are overclocked to 1400mhz and water cooled and I cannot get close to 4k/60fps in Project Cars that has dynamic lighting etc. I would love for it happen, but I really don't see it happening. The majority of my PC games I cannot max out at 4k/60fps, so expecting a 6tf console to do Forza 7 at 4k/60fps with dynamic weather, dynamic lighting is asking for way too much. Would love to be proven wrong as these are things I have been wanting in a Forza series.
Phawx
Member
Halo 4 looked really good. Even the opening scene was eye opening that it was running on a 360. 360 had more available VRAM compared to PS3, so of course multiplatform games looked better on 360.
Killzone 2 had crazy input latency problems. 180+ ms! That's bad for gaming in general and completely awful for an FPS. It did look good though.
Uncharted and TLOU, subjectively speaking, looked better than any 360 exclusive game. I'll concede that.
The 360 was superior to the PS3 by every angle. And it came out a year earlier. And was cheaper.
The 360 was my preferred console last gen. When people asked me what console they should buy this generation, I told them straight 'Get a PS4'.
Let's examine this list:
- Terrible initial PR showing
- Console maker so filled with hubris, they blunder up everything.
- Overpriced
- The cheaper console being better option
- Because the cheaper console is better competition, they need to start lowering the price.
This list applies to both the PS3 and the Xbox One.
rokkerkory
Member
Hehe, yeah. Just throwing a bone out there
Love it even if they said 7TF
No? I would almost think it's expected at this point especially if the Scorpio is expected to run VR solutions like the Rift or Vive.
odhiex
Member
As much as I love the enthusiasm of some gamers here, but that's a suicide price for general market. More than the PS3 launch price??.
I would be shocked if it comes at $599 at launch. I expect at $499 max, the less is better.
wapplew
Member
CyberPunked
Member
That's some optimism, bundled with quite a bit of misunderstanding about how performance scales with hardware. We'll find out in a year and a half.
Proelite
Member
That's some optimism, bundled with quite a bit of misunderstanding about how performance scales with hardware. We'll find out in a year and a half.
4x resolution, need 4x the flops if all graphical settings remain the same if no other bottlenecks.
maximum360
Member
$699 or $599 is crazy talk. Even $499 would be a stretch considering that at that price the Xbox One did not do well. I don't think at $499 the PS4 would have done as well either. I'm optimistic that it will be $399. It seems to be the sweet spot.
dragonelite
Member
Lol
Dee Dah Dave
Member
I wonder if they make the Scorpio a digital only machine (for Scorpio games not everything else).
-Games potentially bigger, requiring multi discs
-Possibly removes disc branding issues at retail
-It's clearly where we are heading, a premium, optional console might be ok to 'break the ice'
Doubt it, but possible.
-Games potentially bigger, requiring multi discs
-Possibly removes disc branding issues at retail
-It's clearly where we are heading, a premium, optional console might be ok to 'break the ice'
Doubt it, but possible.
Nostremitus
Member
With the Windows 10 anniversary update coming later this year bringing cross-platform play and more Xbox one games to PC, I can't help but wonder if Scorpio will be Microsoft's version of a "Steam machine."
Could it be a Windows 10 PC built with hardware designed to best run Xbox One code so that it offers the entire Xbox One library on the Microsoft Store?
Could it be a Windows 10 PC built with hardware designed to best run Xbox One code so that it offers the entire Xbox One library on the Microsoft Store?
Fallout-with-swords
Banned
It still baffles me that the guy in charge of the whole thing would say you won't need the Scorpio with a 1080p TV. I know he said on GB's E3 show they would let developers decide but it makes me wonder how streamlined the system will be for getting games running in 4k with current assets versus developers being able to include new textures / include better lighting, AA, water effects, etc. Because it's not like there are two versions of the game the scalability has to be built into system. Maybe I'm over reacting over a simple miss quote or lack of context but it seemes like it should have been such a simple answer, I wouldn't be surprised if we here there are difficulties implementing upgrades other than 4k.
I can't imagine them trying this so soon after all the negativity they got with the initial X1 reveal, which still used discs but only for the initial install.
I can see all digital coming eventually but only if MS and Sony both do it around the same time so one can't capitalize on the other pissing people off.
VincentMatts
Member
On giantbomb he said that in order to really take advantage of scorpio, a 4k TV was needed. Without it, you wouldnt see a big difference visually than you do now. Which makes sense.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Why wouldnt i see a big difference when the games runs on way higher settings than on XboxOne?
This statement from Phil is just BS.
And XboxOne games without any changes only in 4k is really pointless to me.
Yep. I felt the same listening to him.
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