Support NeoGAF

[Cynn]

Most of all, I think they need to show impressive games with huge graphics in order to sell this console.

Because if it's only going to be xbox one games with the same graphics but with 4K, I'm not going to buy it. I need to see some mindblowing stuff.

I think that the company line that it's all about 4K and only 4K was spread just to give the Xbox One S a chance for sales. This time next year I guarantee that MS will be throwing around ridiculous looking games at 1080p and saying "You asked for power! Here it is! All *scaled* to 4K!"

 

[cackhyena]

People honestly shouldn't even be paying the 4K TV stuff any mind, because we already have plenty of evidence on the PC that you clearly do NOT need a 4K monitor in order to enjoy the benefits of a graphically impressive title. So there's no reason to expect any different from Scorpio.

I really do need to look at it that way. I plan on getting Scorpio on release. I might even have my 4K, low latency (pls god),UHD, OLED next year. Or not...

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I really do need to look at it that way. I plan on getting Scorpio on release. I might even have my 4K, low latency (pls god),UHD, OLED next year. Or not...

I have a 4K waiting for Xbox Scorpio, but I know full well that I don't necessarily need it to be fully satisfied with the experience it will offer up.

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

I don't know why people are wanting devs to get the best 1080p/60 out of Scorpio when devs haven't even reached their peak of game development with the Xbox One yet?

Devs already reached the peak with XboxOne...

Hell we are already seeing all the bad looking sacrifices in a lot of games.

Halo 5,Dynamic Resolutions everywhere, Frostbite 720p games etc...

Sry but XboxOne isnt a beast

 

[Outrun]

I have a 4K waiting for Xbox Scorpio, but I know full well that I don't necessarily need it to be fully satisfied with the experience it will offer up.

I am dreading dropping money on a 4K TV because I will need to pony up for HDR.... and OLED....

 

[Outrun]

Devs already reached the peak with XboxOne...

Hell we are already seeing all the bad looking sacrifices in a lot of games.

Halo 5,Dynamic Resolutions everywhere, Frostbite 720p games etc...

Sry but XboxOne isnt a beast

Hold off until Forza Horizon 3

 

[Proelite]

Devs already reached the peak with XboxOne...

Hell we are already seeing all the bad looking sacrifices in a lot of games.

Halo 5,Dynamic Resolutions everywhere, Frostbite 720p games etc...

Sry but XboxOne isnt a beast

Yep. Why optimize for the 2nd place console.

Not to mention there is less esoteric and less new tech in Xb1 compared to 360 when it was launched.

 

[NippleViking]

You can bet the farm that MS will have a slew of games that show the power of the system, there is no question. One does not spend 8 mins or so of a E3 conference talking about fidelity in graphics, most powerful console ever etc. and not have anything to back that up.

IMHO, I think they will have a few Xbox One games that have a Scorpio Patch applied to show the difference between games playing Natively on the Xbox One and Natively on the Scorpio. I also believe that Forza 7 will be a tour de force visually to also show the capabilities of the machine.

All of this would be pointless without have software that shows the difference, weather that be existing games patched or newer games that run on both and them showing each version.

While I think it's a bit redundant, and would prefer they didn't - for that reason alone I think they'll do a Halo 3 Anniversary. A stunning remake with many of the maps, and a PC release, would sell big.

 

[Cranster]

Devs already reached the peak with XboxOne...

Hell we are already seeing all the bad looking sacrifices in a lot of games.

Halo 5,Dynamic Resolutions everywhere, Frostbite 720p games etc...

Sry but XboxOne isnt a beast

That's is incorrect. It took 7 years for developers to max out the xbox 360, to say that developers have maxed out the xbox one in less than 3 years is ridiculous.

2007

2012

 

[Art Vandilay]

I am dreading dropping money on a 4K TV because I will need to pony up for HDR.... and OLED....

Me too, but it's definitely going to happen within the next year.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

That's is incorrect. It took 7 years for developers to max out the xbox 360, to say that developers have maxed out the xbox one in less than 3 years is ridiculous.

2007

2012

Isnt the top image in-engine while the bottom is pre rendered? If so then it isnt a fair comparison.

Also, th3 x86 architecture of XB1 and PS4 being so similar to PC means that devs probably alrady HAVE gotten everything, or at least NEARLY everything, that they are going to get out of these systems. I'm no developer, but I dont see XB1/PS4 games making any big leaps later on this gen. DR4 looks more or less the same as DR3. Better yes, but not 3 years of the 360's life cycle better comparatively speaking.

 

[anothertech]

I'm not doing 4K till ps5/Xb2 come out with their 15+tf hardware.

This next couple years will be 4K lite if anything.

 

[Cranster]

Isnt the top image in-engine while the bottom is pre rendered? If so then it isnt a fair comparison.

It's an in-engine cinematic. There is no difference.

 

[presagetogood]

Isnt the top image in-engine while the bottom is pre rendered? If so then it isnt a fair comparison.

Also, th3 x86 architecture of XB1 and PS4 being so similar to PC means that devs probably alrady HAVE gotten everything, or at least NEARLY everything, that they are going to get out of these systems. I'm no developer, but I dont see XB1/PS4 games making any big leaps later on this gen. DR4 looks more or less the same as DR3. Better yes, but not 3 years of the 360's life cycle better comparatively speaking.

Unreal engine 4 games like gears of war and fable legends pre cancellation are some of the best looking games I've seen on xb1. Both systems still have more to give, and I think the increased PC focus, increased optimization around modern GPUs will not hinder ps4/xb1, rather we will continue to see the progress shown in modern engines.

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

Hold off until Forza Horizon 3

It really didnt look better than Horizon 2. Just the same but in a new location.

That's is incorrect. It took 7 years for developers to max out the xbox 360, to say that developers have maxed out the xbox one in less than 3 years is ridiculous.

2007

2012

XboxOne isnt some kind of exotic Hardware at all... its a low end GPU and lowend laptop CPU.
There isnt really much to learn.

And Halo 3 vs Halo 4 is just a bad example. With Halo 3 Bungie didnt really approach newer tech. Halo Reach is a better example and looked at some parts a bit better than Halo 4 IMO

And incorrect? Halo 5 at a lot of parts looks worse than Halo 4 and H2A....

Unreal engine 4 games like gears of war and fable legends pre cancellation are some of the best looking games I've seen on xb1. Both systems still have more to give, and I think the increased PC focus, increased optimization around modern GPUs will not hinder ps4/xb1, rather we will continue to see the progress shown in modern engines.

Fable Legends looked really bad on XboxOne and got downgraded towards later builds before the cancellation.
Gears 4 hasnt impressed me yet. And that promise of 1080p got thrown away for Dynamic Resolution which i dont like.

 

[c0de]

It really didnt look better than Horizon 2. Just the same but in a new location.

People know your opinion from many other posts and threads and sometimes I think you are just an attention whore but Horizon 3 not looking better than 2 is something that is totally unnecessary and perhaps you should make a "am I the only one"-thread about it.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I think people are under estimating just how good some of the games will look in 4K. There will be room left in the tank for more than just a resolution bump.

But most AAA games won't do that anyway. Microsoft will have to compete with whatever the Neo is putting out, so that will be the baseline for graphics.

In the end it will be -

Shiny 4K OS / Dashboard
4K Multimedia and Apps
All / most indies in 4K
Some AAA games in 4K
Most AAA games with the best console graphics, varying resolutions at 1080p minimum
Really solid hardware for VR

Those with a 1080p set will get everything they need, with some lovely downsampling 'for free'. It will be a really solid system for everyone.

 

[c0de]

That's is incorrect. It took 7 years for developers to max out the xbox 360, to say that developers have maxed out the xbox one in less than 3 years is ridiculous.

2007

2012

Of course it is incorrect. But in a different way. Early games also use new consoles to its maximum.
BUT: They aren't doing it the right way I can easily put a computer under heavy load with only a few hundred lines of code. The system will be maxed out, so to say.
The question is *how* you use the given resources. Advances in rendering techniques for example mean that you can do more in the same given time slot. Are you using the system more? No, but better. That is something people like jumper don't understand and many others, too. It's not only about devs getting better to know the hardware but they are getting better at the software part. In 7 years, you can expect huge research and advantages in rendering technology.

 

[Tazo]

I'm not doing 4K till ps5/Xb2 come out with their 15+tf hardware.

If Microsoft's plans continue the way I think they will, we won't necessarily need new generations of consoles. Phil Spencer wants Xbox consoles to be backwards *and* forwards compatible, so you buy the games and they'll just work, just like old games like DOOM still run on Windows.

If Sony doesn't make PS4 games run on PS5 then they may have a tough time next-gen. They really need to become a service like Xbox in order to properly compete.

 

[Negotiator]

Also, th3 x86 architecture of XB1 and PS4 being so similar to PC means that devs probably alrady HAVE gotten everything, or at least NEARLY everything, that they are going to get out of these systems. I'm no developer, but I dont see XB1/PS4 games making any big leaps later on this gen. DR4 looks more or less the same as DR3. Better yes, but not 3 years of the 360's life cycle better comparatively speaking.

You clearly don't understand what Async Compute is. x86 is irrelevant.

 

[StoOgE]

Has their been any talk from developers of Xbox One games about potential upgrades?

My question is for something like Overwatch. Is there a chance of my Xbone copy getting upgraded to 4K/Ultra settings if I buy a Scorpio?

I'm not expecting magic and all my games are upgraded, but games that came out on PC with better settings/framerate/resolution seem like they might be ripe for an upgraded port if you own a Scorpio. Especially games that are still revenue generators.

Or would they push for that double dip?

 

[Mixolydian]

Has their been any talk from developers of Xbox One games about potential upgrades?

My question is for something like Overwatch. Is there a chance of my Xbone copy getting upgraded to 4K/Ultra settings if I buy a Scorpio?

I'm not expecting magic and all my games are upgraded, but games that came out on PC with better settings/framerate/resolution seem like they might be ripe for an upgraded port if you own a Scorpio. Especially games that are still revenue generators.

Or would they push for that double dip?

AFAIK, this only applies to games with dynamic resolution, but that's from the official mouthpiece I believe, so take it as you will.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Has there been any interviews with developers, other than the couple shown in he teaser reel, that comment on the available specs for the scorpio? More so, if 6tf seems like a good target for them to achieve what the message is coming across as; 4k native gaming, up to 60hz and vr support.

 

[tapedeck]

4k is 4 times the resolution of 1080p.

Scorpio has 4.5 times the processing power of xbone.

So, scorpio is "better equiped" to do 4k than xbone was of 1080p, and without esram or any small pool to make large framebuffers an issue.

You're doing it very wrong, it's not a 1 to 1 comparison. Look up pixel jump from 1080p to 4K..if it was as simple as 1 to 1 current mid level graphics cards would chew through 4K games with ease.

 

[truth411]

4k is 4 times the resolution of 1080p.

Scorpio has 4.5 times the processing power of xbone.

So, scorpio is "better equiped" to do 4k than xbone was of 1080p, and without esram or any small pool to make large framebuffers an issue.

Most Xbox games struggle to hit 1080p or at least many do. It's better to use the PS4 as the standard for 1080p on consoles. 1.843Tflop x 4 = 7.372Tflops. Scorpio to me is a 1440p gaming console.

 

[MCD]

Has their been any talk from developers of Xbox One games about potential upgrades?

My question is for something like Overwatch. Is there a chance of my Xbone copy getting upgraded to 4K/Ultra settings if I buy a Scorpio?

I'm not expecting magic and all my games are upgraded, but games that came out on PC with better settings/framerate/resolution seem like they might be ripe for an upgraded port if you own a Scorpio. Especially games that are still revenue generators.

Or would they push for that double dip?

Remastered for 4K


Expect to see this a lot next year.

 

[etta]

It really didnt look better than Horizon 2. Just the same but in a new location.

:lol

 

[Strootman]

It really didnt look better than Horizon 2. Just the same but in a new location.

 

[ganaconda]

Most Xbox games struggle to hit 1080p or at least many do. It's better to use the PS4 as the standard for 1080p on consoles. 1.843Tflop x 4 = 7.372Tflops. Scorpio to me is a 1440p gaming console.

It's really not cut and dry either way. AMD's new architecture is said to more efficiently make use of its floating point power so it's not really a straight multiplication. Plus it's hard to really get an exact number on what number of flops are needed for native 1080P gaming. Sure you could use the PS4 as a baseline, but you could also say the Xbox One is a baseline for 900P. 900P * 1.2 * 4 = 4k. Xbox One's GPU is 1.2 TF. 1.2 * 1.2 * 4 = 5.76 TF.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Sure you could use the PS4 as a baseline, but you could also say the Xbox One is a baseline for 900P. 900P * 1.2 * 4 = 4k. Xbox One's GPU is 1.2 TF. 1.2 * 1.2 * 4 = 5.76 TF.

Except you forgot to square 1.2 and the Xbox One GPU is rated at 1.31 TF. Now we're back over 7.5 TF to get comparable per-pixel quality at 4K. The requirements really are beastly. I expect we'll see a few true 4K titles for bragging rights but I don't expect to see developers settling on it as a sweet spot for many years yet.

 

[ganaconda]

Except you forgot to square 1.2 and the Xbox One GPU is rated at 1.31 TF. Now we're back over 7.5 TF to get comparable per-pixel quality at 4K. The requirements really are beastly. I expect we'll see a few true 4K titles for bragging rights but I don't expect to see developers settling on it as a sweet spot for many years yet.

Good call on the squaring, I messed that up badly, but my point on the math not being straight multiplication still stands. From what I recall the Xbox One GPU is rated at 1.2 TF and the system's total rating is 1.31 TF when you add in the .11 TF from the CPU. I agree though that it is likely that the Scorpio will have a hard time running games at 4K. We may end up with some number near 4K with upscaling kinda like we get now with the Xbox One and 900P. 1440P sounds low to me. I'm fairly confident it could hit a target significantly higher than that. Another thing to remember is that one of the major limitations keeping GPUs from running 4K at decent framerates is lack of memory bandwidth. At least in this area, it appears the Scorpio will be up to snuff.

 

[ekim]

Has their been any talk from developers of Xbox One games about potential upgrades?

My question is for something like Overwatch. Is there a chance of my Xbone copy getting upgraded to 4K/Ultra settings if I buy a Scorpio?

I'm not expecting magic and all my games are upgraded, but games that came out on PC with better settings/framerate/resolution seem like they might be ripe for an upgraded port if you own a Scorpio. Especially games that are still revenue generators.

Or would they push for that double dip?

Well games for Scorpio will also run on X1 and vice versa. So a new SKU wouldn't make sense nor is it really possible unless is virtually the same game on X1. I would expect upgrades/patches from some games.

 

[El_Chino]

It really didnt look better than Horizon 2. Just the same but in a new location.




XboxOne isnt some kind of exotic Hardware at all... its a low end GPU and lowend laptop CPU.
There isnt really much to learn.

And Halo 3 vs Halo 4 is just a bad example. With Halo 3 Bungie didnt really approach newer tech. Halo Reach is a better example and looked at some parts a bit better than Halo 4 IMO

And incorrect? Halo 5 at a lot of parts looks worse than Halo 4 and H2A....




Fable Legends looked really bad on XboxOne and got downgraded towards later builds before the cancellation.
Gears 4 hasnt impressed me yet. And that promise of 1080p got thrown away for Dynamic Resolution which i dont like.

 

[Proelite]

Good call on the squaring, I messed that up badly, but my point on the math not being straight multiplication still stands. From what I recall the Xbox One GPU is rated at 1.2 TF and the system's total rating is 1.31 TF when you add in the .11 TF from the CPU. I agree though that it is likely that the Scorpio will have a hard time running games at 4K. We may end up with some number near 4K with upscaling kinda like we get now with the Xbox One and 900P. 1440P sounds low to me. I'm fairly confident it could hit a target significantly higher than that. Another thing to remember is that one of the major limitations keeping GPUs from running 4K at decent framerates is lack of memory bandwidth. At least in this area, it appears the Scorpio will be up to snuff.

This is bull.

It was 1.2TF in the first leaks. After the actually real world numbers are established, and after the upclock, the GPU is at 1.31.

It was reported that 3 GB of RAM would be reserved for the operating system and utility software, leaving 5 GB for games.[14][55][56][57] With DirectX 11.2 as the console's API,[58] the graphics processing unit (GPU) is based on an AMD GCN architecture with 12 compute units, which have a total of 768 cores,[47] running at 853 MHz providing an estimated peak theoretical power of 1.31 TFLOPS.[59] For networking, Xbox One supports Gigabit Ethernet, 802.11n wireless, and Wi-Fi Direct.[60]

 

[ganaconda]

This is bull.

It was 1.2TF in the first leaks. After the actually real world numbers are established, and after the upclock, the GPU is at 1.31.

Ok, that's possible, sounds familiar after reading it. I didn't look it up. Still not really relevant to the main point I was making, the flops numbers were more of an additional sidenote. You can't just multiply the flops because the two AMD architectures are completely different. Additionally, memory bandwidth is just as much if not more of a bottleneck to modern GPUs (high end) in running games at 4K than floating point power. Using 4K textures really eats up memory bandwidth.

 

[rokkerkory]

Let's say the architecture is very robust and efficient for scorpio at 6TF... While I hope they can do 4k30, I am a bit skeptical. Hopefully vega is very good so 6TF is enough. Give me 7TF to be safer however

$400-500 too thanks

 

[Syrus]

I am dreading dropping money on a 4K TV because I will need to pony up for HDR.... and OLED....

Hdr is cheap , OLED is not

Buy a samsung SUHD and call it good

 

[Montresor]

Whatever the power it's pretty much guaranteed that one of the two will happen: a) Scorpio is more powerful than Neo, or b) Scorpio and Neo have the exact same specs. Microsoft is not going to release an underpowered console.

 

[Orca]

While that would be nice, I think they will focus on some of the bigger/more recent releases that they will patch in improvements to showcase what the Scorpio can do. I have a good gaming PC and can run Ryse at 4k and it looks freaking fantastic.

That's why it would make sense to get a patch for Ryse, then you can point to it and say "this is a LAUNCH game from Xbox One...and look at it now."

 

[Hawk269]

That's why it would make sense to get a patch for Ryse, then you can point to it and say "this is a LAUNCH game from Xbox One...and look at it now."

I agree with you man and would love to see it happen, but I think they will focus on morenrecent or higher profile games. Knowing what Crytek was able to accomplish with Ryse I would love them to make the sequel with the power Scorpio will provide.

 

[Journey]

Let's say the architecture is very robust and efficient for scorpio at 6TF... While I hope they can do 4k30, I am a bit skeptical. Hopefully vega is very good so 6TF is enough. Give me 7TF to be safer however

$400-500 too thanks

I think people are focusing too much on the TF number, while forgetting the advances in GPU and memory architecture. 1.31 TF with a crippled CPU and memory architecture vs 6+TF with a possible great CPU and modern memory architecture, but it doesn't end there, the new GPU architecture will also have an impact.

 

[Yoday]

Well games for Scorpio will also run on X1 and vice versa. So a new SKU wouldn't make sense nor is it really possible unless is virtually the same game on X1. I would expect upgrades/patches from some games.

Yeah, I'm expecting a lot of updates to games leading up to the launches of both Scorpio and Neo as long as it isn't a super in depth process. I expect Xbox One games are just Xbox One games and developers will have different settings profiles depending on the hardware the game is running on. Or it's possible we just see resolution scaling and the quality scaling from Forza 6 Apex become standard for Xbox games.

I believe Phil said in an interview that they are starting to push developers towards dynamic resolution scaling more and more, and we've certainly seen that start to play out with games like The Division launching with it. The big one for me was Mirrors Edge getting dynamic resolution support patched in the week it launched. That would mean DICE now has dynamic scaling support built into Frostbite on XBO. I'd be shocked if BF1 doesn't launch with dynamic resolutions, and I'm hoping we see it patched into Battlefront.

 

[ganaconda]

So going back to the TFlop discussion, even though it's really not fair with so many unknowns. Using the PS4 as a basis you'd get a resolution of approximately 3464 x 1948 with Scorpio. That's still a big difference from the 2560 x 1440 number that people have been throwing out.

 

[Yoday]

I think people are focusing too much on the TF number, while forgetting the advances in GPU and memory architecture. 1.31 TF with a crippled CPU and memory architecture vs 6+TF with a possible great CPU and modern memory architecture, but it doesn't end there, the new GPU architecture will also have an impact.

Sadly the focus on TFs is a very common trend, but it's an easy metric for people to use when they don't actually know much about hardware tech. Raw computing power is all fine and dandy, but the real story here, like you say, is the architecture changes and massive boost to memory. The jump to 320GB/s bandwidth is massive on its own, but combined with new memory compression techniques and better CPU efficiency it's going to make for a beast of a system. I only wish we knew more about the CPU being used. If they are using Zen based cores we could be looking at not only higher clocks, but also a significant jump in IPC and hyperthreading, which would be practically a generational leap above the shit Jaguar cores.

The focus on Teraflops is severely understating the power gap between XBO and Scorpio, and even between Scorpio and the rumored Neo specs. If the rumored Neo specs are true, with a small clock boost to Jaguar cores and a very minor memory boost, then the gap between Neo and Scorpio is going to make the current PS4/XBO gap look like next to nothing.

 

[Gamezone]

Is this generation going to last longer because of the Scorpio? The launch Xbox One shouldn't normally have too much time left by the point the Scorpio is released. Microsoft has promised that all games will function on both consoles. Doesn't that mean that Scorpio games will be very limited, unless they're exclusive? I'm so confused if this is something I should get. If people want UHD they can always buy the slim.

 

[Pathfinder]

Is this generation going to last longer because of the Scorpio? The launch Xbox One shouldn't normally have too much time left by the point the Scorpio is released. Microsoft has promised that all games will function on both consoles. Doesn't that mean that Scorpio games will be very limited, unless they're exclusive? I'm so confused if this is something I should get. If people want UHD they can always buy the slim.

You don't need to decide right now. We have a year and a half before the console even comes out. By then, we'll know a lot more.

 

[Gamezone]

You don't need to decide right now. We have a year and a half before the console even comes out. By then, we'll know a lot more.

True. But I surely would prefer the Scorpio to have exclusive games, not to be limited by the launch consoles.

 

[LordOfChaos]

You know a FunnySad thing I just realized? The 6Tflops of the Scorpio is basically a wash against the dual, combined, highest end GPUs you can get in the Mac Pro because they haven't been updated in so long.

http://www.apple.com/ca/mac-pro/performance/

7Tflops for

Spoiler

$5,419.00

And yeah they're Firepros, but they show up in Windows as Radeons, i think Apple pulled a slick deal there as Firepros in this class are just Radeons with different drivers and better support, and Apple supplies both on the OSX side. So they probably got them for the cost of Radeons.


Anywho...Continue on your ways.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

What do you guys think about recent PS4 Neo rumor? if it's end up true then i think Microsoft will push it to something like 7TF, so i hope it true lol.

More power, better gaming.

 

[leeh]

Is this generation going to last longer because of the Scorpio? The launch Xbox One shouldn't normally have too much time left by the point the Scorpio is released. Microsoft has promised that all games will function on both consoles. Doesn't that mean that Scorpio games will be very limited, unless they're exclusive? I'm so confused if this is something I should get. If people want UHD they can always buy the slim.

We're not going to get another 'generation' from MS, I think we can safely say that. We're just going to get consoles which get phased out in-terms of support when there's another 2 newer most likely. They'll all run the same OS' and play the same games. Hell, we'd probably still be able to play our GoW:UE copies on the console after Scorpio. Hopefully, anyway.