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[pullcounter]

3090 but close enough.

3090 will only be around 15-20% faster than a 3080. They both use the same GPU (GA-102), the 3090 has 20% more CUDA cores, but the ram is identical (minus the amount which *rarely* ever affects framerate when you are talking 10+GB), and the 3090 runs at a slightly lower clock speed

The 3070 however uses a different GPU (GA-104), and will be roughly the same speed as a 2080ti. This puts the 3080 at around 50-60% faster than the 3070.

Just for comparisons sake:
CUDA Cores
2080ti - 4352
3070 - 5888
3080 - 8704
3090 - 10496

CUDA cores dont necessarily correlate to framerate, and I didn't use that metric to determine the % (FPS) difference between these cards (For example the 2080ti has fewer CUDA cores than the 3070 but gaming performance will be roughly the same, similarly to the 1080ti vs the 2080)

 

[ScaryBrandon]

PC master race is taking over. Best place the play PS5 and Xbox games will be on a 3080.

My backlog of awesome pc games is too big to bother with Sony shovelware.

 

[mrBarrelNut]

. No.

I'd say 4TF console with DLSS2.0 would comfortably outperform PS5 at least. 3TF console also might be able to do it as well, or at least be very close to PS5 in graphics performance. However, Nvidia doesn't have high power x86 cpu cores available for integration so I'm not sure what kind of ARM?/RISC-V? solution could be offered to Nintendo?

 

[mejin]

Best looking doesn't mean anything..but it does help.

Rachet & Craig meant everything people needed to know.

 

[pullcounter]

its honestly pretty damn amazing what developers were able to pull off on the PS4. the PC GPU equivalent in that system is something like a Radeon 260x (HD 7870-ish).

Being able to develop a game for one hardware environment really does allow devs to take full advantage of the system. No gaming PC with that kind of GPU power would ever be able to run a game like FF7 Remake. It really sucks that PC game devs rarely fully take advantage of top tier hardware.

 

[GymWolf]

Thank god we have df that can discover hot fire and wet water for us.

 

[Jon Neu]

Finally a thread to expose Digital Foundry's Microsoft bias.

 

[Shmunter]

Anybody hear that little exchange between Alex and a John at about 40min? Whoooweeee

 

[Bernd Lauert]

3 TF on mobile would be very hard. 1024 cores at 1500mhz? Not impossible but very hard, especially for Nintendo which don't use high end hardwares. According to the Nvidia road map, Nano Next (2021) is for cheaper devices, maybe Orin but in 2022.

Then, you need a mobile CPU powerful as Ryzen on PS5. You can't run next gen games on a old quad core, even if your game run at 540p, which is the minimum resolution for DLSS.

Ampere has doubled the CUDA core performance per flop, which means you only need half the frequency or half the core count for 3 TF. There's also no reason to believe that Nvidia won't be making a custom chip for the Switch 2. Nano and Orin won't be relevant for it.

The CPU is a bigger question mark, though something like the A78 should be performant enough to not be a huge bottleneck. It will also be fairly cheap to produce when the Switch 2 arrives in approximately 2023.

DLSS 2.1 is also a thing, so going from 360p to 1080p or 720p to 4k won't be a problem.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Anybody hear that little exchange between Alex and a John at about 40min? Whoooweeee

They seem like actual friends so it's probably more a joke about all the forum shit posting people do about Alex and less about actual Alex.

 

[Shmunter]

They seem like actual friends so it's probably more a joke about all the forum shit posting people do about Alex and less about actual Alex.

Felt tense. Maybe I’m reading too much into it.

 

[llien]

4TF console upscaling to 4k from 1080p with DLSS2.0 would comfortably probably outperform PS5 running at 4k

FTFY

 

[Alphagear]

TLOU 1 is first. I think BB is coming too. I don't have confirmation on that but people have been talking. I think it will be all the PS4 exclusives that matter. PS5 games will obviously come afterwards.

The wait time has nothing to do with holding out on the PC for a few months of sales for the PS. It has more to do with the 1st party companies not having their graphics engines designed for multiplatform. That's being worked on now.

Who is gonna port BB to the PC? They couldn't even get anyone to sort out the frame pacing and frame rate issues on the PS4 consoles.

 

[Rikkori]

3090 will only be around 15-20% faster than a 3080. They both use the same GPU (GA-102), the 3090 has 20% more CUDA cores, but the ram is identical

But bus width isn't, so it also has more memory bandwidth.

 

[llien]

But I was told on this forum multiple times that DF are MS paid shills....confused.

Siding with Microsoft in Microsoft vs Sony. ("for some reason")
Siding with NVidia in NV vs AMD ("for some reason")


Actually, one either is into "some reasons" or not. It's much cheaper to give that "some reason" than fix the artifacts produced by DLSS. (which, let me spoil it for you, cannot be universally fixed)

 

[Redlight]

When every Xbox game releases day and date on PC with potential for much higher graphics settings, Series X is pitched against gaming PCs. You choose whether the perks of a weaker streamlined box without a bloated Windows OS is worth it over a more expensive PC.

This is why MS' marketing about being really powerful has been misplaced again, as they're pairing this message with 'Gamepass box' as a strategy. At this point it would be better to go all in and promote the Series S: cheap streaming box that moves it out of the range of PS5 and gaming PCs.

I don't think Series X is pitched against PCs. If one console is, then every console is.

The vast majority of potential purchasers are already on the PC or console bandwagon. As I said, I could afford a gaming PC instead of a next-gen console - I used to game exclusively on PCs, but these days I play exclusively on console, by choice. That's what works best for me.

For mine it's not even really the same market. It doesn't matter what sudden breakthrough happens on PC, I'll be doing all of my gaming, for the next seven years or so, on a next-gen console or consoles. I'm happy for every game to be available on PC, does me no harm whatsoever.

 

[Shmunter]

Who is gonna port BB to the PC? They couldn't even get anyone to sort out the frame pacing and frame rate issues on the PS4 consoles.

It could be opportunistic if they are planning a PS5 patch

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Felt tense. Maybe I’m reading too much into it.

I find most on this forum read to much into anything positive or negative if it allows them to brag or shit post

 

[Shmunter]

I find most on this forum read to much into anything positive or negative if it allows them to brag or shit post

We’re only human beans

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Consoles can’t compete with high end PC GPU’s. More breaking news from your dedicated game journalists coming soon!

 

[Shmunter]

This is just common sense. If either MS or Sony had AI upscaling anywhere close to DLSS 2.0, it would be their #1 bullet point and the lead feature of their console. It's effectively a 50-100%+ boost to performance. You don't mention something like that in passing as a throw away feature, or fail to mention it at all in Sony's case.

Not necessarily, and not saying you’re wrong. But 4k is a selling point to every man on the street. Fancy upscaling gibberish may just confuse matters. Least we forget, consoles are a mass consumer product, not a pc component for propeller heads.

 

[Hezekiah]

Hopefully it scares the shit out of the bigwigs at PlayStation so the triple down on exclusives.

Well at the moment if you have a PC there's zero reason to get an Xbox, given the superior power and flexibility you have on PC.

However with PlayStation games it's mostly hearsay and speculation at this point. Most of the games that get ported over will be older games, and the ports themselves handled by third-parties, and I think that strategy makes sense.

 

[jimbojim]

Why only focus on the Series X when the exact same applies to the PS5?

Silly question I suppose.

That Red Dragon tweet is ridiculous too. They're making the mistake in assuming that people that buy consoles will just buy a PC if it gets all the console games. That's not true, never has been true, and never will be true. The GPU alone that you need for this costs almost as much as the Series X will.

How exactly does DLSS work with the machine learning? Does the machine learning just build like a "profile" and then the hardware uses that profile for the DLSS? Surely it's not running machine learning and applying the results in real time to every frame? If it's the former, what reason is there why MS couldn't run the machine learning on azure and then send the profiles to the game?

Because Richard said that PS5 is a class on its own and buy it because exclusives. No further discussion about that

 

[Memorabilia]

But SonyGAF told me over and over that Digital Foundry are MS fanboys and not to be trusted...

 

[geordiemp]

Finally a thread to expose Digital Foundry's Microsoft bias.

Paid content.

 

[Redlight]

Because Richard said that PS5 is a class on its own and buy it because exclusives. No further discussion about that

The exclusives argument really doesn't mean much to me.

Halo, Gears, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Uncharted, BotW? For me, not that big a deal. I gave up on Horizon and BotW halfway through. I did enjoy God of War, but even then I'd have to say it was a little overrated.

Personally I prefer games like Red Dead, Far Cry, Hitman, Metro, Dying Light, Cyberpunk or Control. Let's face it third-party games are the vast majority, exclusives are a bit of a side-show.

 

[Ascend]

DF is on nVidia's payroll, obviously.

 

[Senua]

and no one is surprised. this happens everytime.

People are surprised, every single time, over and over again every gen.

 

[Elog]

Now this was a drama queen thread. I do not know about MS but Sony has worked on upscaling techniques the whole last generation. You really believe they will be caught completely flat footed here?

 

[megreotsugua]

Finally a thread to expose Digital Foundry's Microsoft bias.

Richard is not the only xbox fan these days expressing disappointment towards microsoft. Twitter is full of them. I can't blame them though. They're not wrong.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

We’re only human beans

Yeah but there is no actual discussion happening. Lots of smart people here yet all we have is bickering and mutual masturbation.

 

[megreotsugua]

But SonyGAF told me over and over that Digital Foundry are MS fanboys and not to be trusted...

Xbox fanboys in twitter are expressing the same disappoint on xbox. DF is just as disappointed. It doesn't say anything about their bias.

 

[Manstructiclops]

Leather jackets marketing team is working overtime.

 

[Ascend]

Xbox fanboys in twitter are expressing the same disappoint on xbox. DF is just as disappointed. It doesn't say anything about their bias.

I don't think the Xbox sentiment is as bad as you're making it out to be.

 

[pawel86ck]

There are 4K UE5 screenshots somewhere? I know DLSS 2.0 can rival 4K native image quality, but I want to see how UE5 upscaling looks like on high quality screenshots, because YT compression always blur fine details.

 

[Bryank75]

Well at the moment if you have a PC there's zero reason to get an Xbox, given the superior power and flexibility you have on PC.

However with PlayStation games it's mostly hearsay and speculation at this point. Most of the games that get ported over will be older games, and the ports themselves handled by third-parties, and I think that strategy makes sense.

I don't even think that is a good idea now personally. I think it weakens their position. People will more likely hold out now than buy a PS5 if they are on a capable PC.

I think it is an arrogant move that will blow up in their face.

 

[cireza]

I watched this video

You are doing it wrong. You must come in here and bitch on MS without watching the video.

 

[diffusionx]

Not necessarily, and not saying you’re wrong. But 4k is a selling point to every man on the street. Fancy upscaling gibberish may just confuse matters. Least we forget, consoles are a mass consumer product, not a pc component for propeller heads.

Except 4K was a selling point on the Pro/One X, and we all know that they never/rarely got there and nobody really complained. DLSS yields far better results than 1620p or 1440p with temporal AA or whatever, so I would think that normie gamers would be fine with it especially given how much better games can look with it.

If these consoles don’t have a DLSS like solution ready to go it is going to be a massive disadvantage for them relative to PCs, and the gap between the platforms will be far larger than they were this gen, more like PC vs. 360 (where even a toaster PC was running 360 games at 1080p/60fps/max while the console struggled at 720p/30 with lower details).

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Digital Foundry's latest video recapped the NVIDIA 30XX conference.

In regards to the $499 3070 Digital Foundry claims the card will offer Superior GPU Performance compared to the Xbox Series X and that is before you even factor in DLSS.

They say Microsoft is working on image upscaling tech similar to DLSS, but that Xbox Series X doesn't have dedicated hardware and it won't be competitive with what NVIDIA has short of a Miracle

They also point out that we don't know if Sony is working on similar tech yet.

Really disappointing if AMD doesn't have something that comes close to DLSS. I get that they're years behind, but it's such a huge leap that if this is true then it won't be long before we're getting another refresh.

Full Video


Excerpts

Of course, only Sony invented that first with Checkerboarding then DLSS came with its still existing flaws, and recently Sony patented a new AI image reconstruction tech. Only one platform is left behind.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

well, what do you know! another "xbox is doomed" thread, who would have thought?

some facts:

going by the pompous and impressive numbers nvidia released yesterday,
the new xbox has ~55% of the combined GPU+RT capability that 2080ti has.
2080ti until yesterday was the undisputed king of graphics and undisputed king of RT,
and no matter how you look at it, ps5 cannot touch xbox's numbers even in mark cerny's dreams.

Its not just the 19% difference in TF.
there is also 44% difference in CUs,
and a further 25% difference in GPU bandwidth*
These things add up you know...

*I hope most of you that praise 3080 with its 10GB RAM, got the message that xbox's 560Gb/s 10GB RAM is enough.

xbox also has confirmed h/w machine learning in the box with plenty of custom controllers to aid,
and microsoft has -a very crucial part of the DLSS 2.0 procedure- a vast array of offline compute for deep learning super sampling, or deep learning in general.

I don't want to write too much -I've learned that very rarely people read or understand more than a couple of catchy lines- but anyway these are some of the things that give xbox a great advantage over ps5.


Also keep in mind that xbox will have at launch the IO-GPU advantages nvidia demonstrated yesteday,
while the GTX 3000 series will have to wait for microsoft to deliver them DX IO


TLDR
So yeah, another "doom" thread

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I don't think Series X is pitched against PCs. If one console is, then every console is.

The vast majority of potential purchasers are already on the PC or console bandwagon. As I said, I could afford a gaming PC instead of a next-gen console - I used to game exclusively on PCs, but these days I play exclusively on console, by choice. That's what works best for me.

For mine it's not even really the same market. It doesn't matter what sudden breakthrough happens on PC, I'll be doing all of my gaming, for the next seven years or so, on a next-gen console or consoles. I'm happy for every game to be available on PC, does me no harm whatsoever.

It's really simple but you keep missing the point: Xbox library is shared across XSX, XSS and PC (and XB1 for a period). PS5 has exclusives only on PS5. It has/will have Playstation platform exclusives too, only on PS4/PS5. Same for Switch.

So of course, given the above, the choice between an Xbox or a PC is a real one. Whereas a PC doesnt help you if you want those PS4/5 or Switch games. So one console out of the three is pitched differently to the other two in this sense, can you not see that?

 

[RGB'D]

But... just get XBOX Ultimate and play on your beefy computer. PC Gamepass is a freaking gem. And I can use it to crossplay with my friends on their XBox. It works really well and I play so many games that I never would without the price barrier. Maybe this is why Xbox shifted to service and isn’t concerned with console sales. They understood what Nvidia had in the pipeline (since they were already working with NVidia on tech for the 3000 series) and realized how big of a gap there would be.

Also: Been using XCloud on lunch at work and it's super fun. It definitely has some growing to do, but holy crap it's cool. In many ways, just buying a Xbox controller can be the entry point to gaming for many. Phone gaming is it for the younger generation, and playing xbox on your phone feels ridiculous.

 

[RoboFu]

ehh coinsoles already have upscaling reconstruction routines that are getting better. not a huge thing.

 

[Hezekiah]

I don't even think that is a good idea now personally. I think it weakens their position. People will more likely hold out now than buy a PS5 if they are on a capable PC.

I think it is an arrogant move that will blow up in their face.

Haha fair enough. I think it makes sense for Sony from a financial perspective as a lot of hardcore PC gamers turn their noses up at consoles.

For me, there's no way I'm gonna wait 2 - 4 years for PlayStation games to come to PC - especially if many if them already have a 60fps mode on PS5. The graphics will already be amazing as they're Sony first-party.

 

[dalekjay]

Should also add PS5 to it too.

How dare you

Spoiler

we can only say obvious stuff
against Xbox

 

[TLZ]

I don't understand this . $499 for one video card , vs $499 for the whole Xbox Series X is not really a fair match up. And also , MS is very much happy if you want to game on PC or Console. They still get your money .

Yes but that hurts the Xbox hardware if it doesn't sell well. Then Xbox will just continue as a service and no need to produce hardware. I don't want that to happen.

 

[sircaw]

well, what do you know! another "xbox is doomed" thread, who would have thought?

some facts:

going by the pompous and impressive numbers nvidia released yesterday,
the new xbox has ~55% of the combined GPU+RT capability that 2080ti has.
2080ti until yesterday was the undisputed king of graphics and undisputed king of RT,
and no matter how you look at it, ps5 cannot touch xbox's numbers even in mark cerny's dreams.

Its not just the 19% difference in TF.
there is also 44% difference in CUs,
and a further 25% difference in GPU bandwidth*
These things add up you know...

*I hope most of you that praise 3080 with its 10GB RAM, got the message that xbox's 560Gb/s 10GB RAM is enough.

xbox also has confirmed h/w machine learning in the box with plenty of custom controllers to aid,
and microsoft has -a very crucial part of the DLSS 2.0 procedure- a vast array of offline compute for deep learning super sampling, or deep learning in general.

I don't want to write too much -I've learned that very rarely people read or understand more than a couple of catchy lines- but anyway these are some of the things that give xbox a great advantage over ps5.


Also keep in mind that xbox will have at launch the IO-GPU advantages nvidia demonstrated yesteday,
while the GTX 3000 series will have to wait for microsoft to deliver them DX IO


TLDR
So yeah, another "doom" thread

 

[sinnergy]

well, what do you know! another "xbox is doomed" thread, who would have thought?

some facts:

going by the pompous and impressive numbers nvidia released yesterday,
the new xbox has ~55% of the combined GPU+RT capability that 2080ti has.
2080ti until yesterday was the undisputed king of graphics and undisputed king of RT,
and no matter how you look at it, ps5 cannot touch xbox's numbers even in mark cerny's dreams.

Its not just the 19% difference in TF.
there is also 44% difference in CUs,
and a further 25% difference in GPU bandwidth*
These things add up you know...

*I hope most of you that praise 3080 with its 10GB RAM, got the message that xbox's 560Gb/s 10GB RAM is enough.

xbox also has confirmed h/w machine learning in the box with plenty of custom controllers to aid,
and microsoft has -a very crucial part of the DLSS 2.0 procedure- a vast array of offline compute for deep learning super sampling, or deep learning in general.

I don't want to write too much -I've learned that very rarely people read or understand more than a couple of catchy lines- but anyway these are some of the things that give xbox a great advantage over ps5.


Also keep in mind that xbox will have at launch the IO-GPU advantages nvidia demonstrated yesteday,
while the GTX 3000 series will have to wait for microsoft to deliver them DX IO


TLDR
So yeah, another "doom" thread

Yup that card had around 700 Gb/s for 10 gig VRAM, Xbox 560 Gb/s , not bad at all. PS5 only has 448 Gb/s for 16 Gigs.

 

[ethomaz]

They don't need to.

I find extreme dumb a technical site do these types of non-sense comparison.
No console ever competed with PC graphic cards... that is something any 5 years old child knows.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

I don't even think that is a good idea now personally. I think it weakens their position. People will more likely hold out now than buy a PS5 if they are on a capable PC.

I think it is an arrogant move that will blow up in their face.

How do maths work?

Sony makes the vast majority of playstation earnings through microtransactions and digital games sold.
If you can expand that by 50% or 100% , even if you give a 30% away to steam you still get the most growth possible.