• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Xbox Smart Delivery Turned Out To Be A Pretty Big Deal

ManaByte

Gold Member
Jun 10, 2004
34,428
48,718
2,510
California
manabyte.com

When Microsoft started slipping the made-up phrase “Smart Delivery” into all of its Xbox Series X/S marketing last year, it seemed like just another pair of empty buzzwords. Surely all games would just simply work after you installed them on your expensive new hardware, whether they supported Microsoft’s catchphrase or not. Not quite!

Nothing has put the gulf between standard operating procedure for next-gen games and Microsoft’s Xbox Series X/S Smart Delivery feature on display quite like Marvel’s Avengers. The loot RPG’s next-gen version went live yesterday and turned out to be a massive headache for those looking to upgrade from PS4 to PS5. First, they had to make sure both versions of the game were downloaded and updated on the console. Then they had to migrate their save data over. Hours and dozens of GB of data later, they could delete the PS4 version and finally get to playing.

Of course, all of this was made somewhat more complicated by how clumsy it can be to actually check which versions of a game you have downloaded on your PS5 and whether they’re updated. Marvel’s Avengers itself was also acting up, with the in-game option to migrate save data not appearing for some players. It took Crystal Dynamics several tweets and a dedicated FAQ on PlayStation’s website to explain the process, which was unintuitive enough to cause many people’s eyes to glaze over after reading the instructions. “Living in the future at Sony over here,” tweeted Forbes writer Paul Tassi.




On Xbox Series X/S, meanwhile, things just worked.

And yet time and again Smart Delivery has turned out to in fact be a real thing solving a real problem that otherwise plagues the transition to next-gen consoles. I now take for granted that I can turn on my Series S, browse the Microsoft Store, Game Pass, and my existing account library, and just play whatever within seconds, no questions asked. Then I go back to my PS5 and find I’m running out of space already because I have duplicate PS4 versions of several games downloaded. Also my Ghost of Tsushima save data didn’t carry over—time to boot the PS4 back up. Jesus Christ yes I’m sorry for unplugging you without warning last time.

What can I say, I figured it would be for the last time.

 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
8,547
2,741
770
This is one area I wish Sony was better in. Oh well.
 
  • Empathy
Reactions: Wizz-Art

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Dec 25, 2019
9,676
17,502
935
Prague, Czech Republic
 

CatLady

Member
Jun 12, 2018
4,160
13,561
670
"Buzz words"

Yet the Ps5 was downloading ps4 version of games alongside the Ps5 versions too.

It seems like things on PS5 can be somewhat convoluted and a hassle. Save games from PS4 to PS5, Getting the PS5 version of a cross gen game, all the issues some people had/have with rest mode, and no additional storage solution of any kind for PS5 games. People opening the case to apply thermal paste, tinker with noisy fans or try to fix too much coil whine. PC gaming for all the complaints that it's not as simple consoles seems less complicated.

Like Kagey K Kagey K said with Series X/S you turn it on, it works. Simple, no hassle; I like that.
 
Last edited:

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
8,547
2,741
770
Sony definitely has some things to work out on the software side. They seem to lack coherent ideas in how some of this was implemented. Of course, it is all software and so it can be fixed.......but they don't seem to be in much of a hurry.

To Do List Nothing GIF by SpongeBob SquarePants
I also think one thing is they have different philosophies.

MS is all in on BC, Sony only cares about PS4. MS has the 2 different sku's with different specs that some devs have already said isnt as easy to deal with as some think. And they wanna support both as best as possible.

The PS5DE is one disc drive and one different outer shell away from being a regular PS5.

From Game Pass to Smart Delivery....you can see how both companies think. And thats fine, it is what it is. Whatever works for each companie, so be it.
 

Mmnow

Member
Jun 16, 2020
1,025
1,710
360

This was interesting to read back through.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
8,547
2,741
770
Yeah, lol, there are some issues like this too.


This was interesting to read back through.
The thing is it kinda does......its just not quite like MS's. Sony still has cloud saves locked behind Plus, MS had cloud saves free day one with XBO.

They both have pros n cons with their services and features. As damn near every other product ever made.
 
Last edited:

Mmnow

Member
Jun 16, 2020
1,025
1,710
360
The thing is it kinda does......its just not quite like MS's. Sony still has cloud saves locked behind Plus, MS had cloud saves free day one with XBO.

They both have pros n cons with their services and features. As damn near every other product ever made.
Not really. It's not been as damning on Sony as some predicted, but Smart Delivery isn't just words. It's a combination of services that prevent this mess with Avengers from ever being an issue at the system level.

There are publishers behind things like Control that push their luck and complicate things, but you can't say that was a fault with MS. Whereas Avengers is definitely a Sony problem. A major one? No. But a Sony problem.

But really I just found all the "You're falling for the PR. Sony can just write a line of code for this" talk funny.
 

Plantoid

Member
Oct 5, 2020
273
590
300
That's why I bought the xsx, everything just works, flawlessly.... It's hard to miss demons souls, but later I might get a ps5 just for the exclusives...

Meanwhile, everyday I get good Xbox news, and gamepass just keeps delivering way more than I can play
 

Sleepwalker

Member
Jan 8, 2012
1,334
1,870
810
Canada
My FIFA Ultimate Team progress carries over from PS4 version to PS5 so Avengers is not PS5’s fault.

FIFA on XBOX doesn't use smart delivery.


Ultimate Team clubs are stored server side. They are never downloaded or saved in your console, it's a fully online mode.

How about other modes? like career mode? you know, your actual save files? well not really


All progress you make or content you acquire within FIFA 21 Ultimate Team, including players, items, coins, FIFA Points, match record and leaderboard placement, as well as all progression in Volta (the FIFA Street-style mode) will transfer from PS4 to PS5 and back, or from Xbox One to Xbox Series X and back.

But, progress within all other modes, including Online Seasons, Co-Op Seasons, Career Mode, and Pro Clubs, is specific to the console you are playing on and won't transfer between consoles.

Here's the statement in full:

"When we start developing for a new generation of consoles, there's ultimately some trade-offs we need to make. So we decided that the time required to make all modes transferable was better used to build new features and improvements across the entire game, along with addressing feedback from our players. Since both Volta and FUT are server-based modes it made sense for us to focus on them as a way for players to carry over their progression."


This has nothing to do with smart delivery and everything to do with EA being morons.
 
Last edited:
Aug 28, 2019
6,209
11,794
530
Great idea but they honestly should have built in a way for paid upgrades to use it; greedy publishers made their games a hassle because the tech didn't exist for them.
 

The Alien

Member
Feb 10, 2018
1,553
1,796
410
It is a big deal and pretty awesome.....but I didn't say it. I refuse to agree with Kotaku. I hope that site crashes and burns (Moreso than it already is).
 

Elias

Member
Oct 24, 2020
399
815
280
It's amazing how painfully slow Sony is at addressing these QoL issues whereas, Xbox is lightyears ahead. They've already add a ton of specific next gen UI elements to games that are extremely convenient for gamers wheras Sony is still missing key things like cold storage etc..
 

Zeroing

Member
Sep 19, 2019
736
992
325
Article about Microsoft, almost every post here is about Sony and PlayStation. Yeah it will not turn into a console war, ah!

btw Microsoft is a software company with an OS, people understand that, correct? Of course Sony and Nintendo will be a bit behind. The good of this is all the 3 companies will try to improve on what they lack and push gaming. Like they always did!
 

Hinedorf

Member
Feb 3, 2017
1,714
2,050
490
San Diego, CA
So basically Microsofts OS works great even for a broken game? If they were talking about any other game other than Marvel Avengers I might care. We're talking about how the graphics update works on a game that came out in August of last year that still have broken features and missing guarantees on characters they initial highlighted to sell the game.

Not poo pooing Xbox at all as this is pretty damn impressive, it just speaks to the stupidity of Square Enix and Marvel Avengers more than the ingenuity of Microsoft.
 

sainraja

Member
Aug 15, 2007
1,413
842
1,310
yet microsoft out hardwared sony again.
so what is sony?
Did they? lol I guess depends on your criteria and if power margin is all you can point at to say Sony was "out hardware" I guess that's fine but it's not as simple as that.

I think both systems have enough uniqueness to them that make them both worth having. If you are too busy playing fanboy war that's on you but I have both now and have spent the past day with the PS5 (and the past few months with the XSX). Sure the PS5 is a little rough around the edges right now but things will improve via software updates. No need to dog on hardware you don't have or don't want to spend your time on! It's okay to not like something and there doesn't have to be a reason for it.

As for who Sony is?

I know how that question is being used right now and I hate to be baited into a fanboy war, but Sony is a gaming hardware company who has been focusing on software with the past 2 systems they released. They've made a lot of progress. I love the UI of the PS5 but that doesn't mean it cannot be improved.

Smart delivery, the word itself, is a marketing word being used to explain certain features that the Xbox has. I mean, I guess, the iPhone has smart delivery too! It's had it since, well, feels like forever now! The process is pretty much seamless of moving from an old iPhone to a new one. Some people forget, but what I recall, how it was being used prior, it was to say to indicate that you can purchase something for XONE and have it on the XSX which is why it was being treated as an upgrade! And Sony did that going from the PS3 to PS4 under the "cross buy" terminology but as we know now, smart delivery is more than just "buying an XONE copy and getting a XSX copy."
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Kumomeme

Three

Member
Oct 26, 2014
5,719
3,069
610
the office agree GIF by EditingAndLayout


I’m honestly kinda surprised Sony hasn’t implemented similar infrastructure, especially in terms of save migration.
Regardless of the xbox marketing head being slightly upset about the reaction to his marketing and linking it to "smart delivery" and xbox engineers this issue seems a little more complicated than that. Especially as Control still doesn't do it so why did smart delivery fail there? I assume it is actually based on how the game integrated with the OS on Xbox one/PS4, contracts, and EULAs and will vary on a game by game basis. It isn't some next gen engineering. It isn't something Sony can just add to PS5.

Something as simple as a publisher storing data on different servers for the next gen version would mean the user would need to agree to data migration and press a migrate button. Automatic upload to the cloud on the old Xbox one/PS4 version would be another thing.

So if a publisher already auto uploaded your old game save online on XB1 or PS4 and they use the same servers and contracts they can stick a "Smart delivery" sticker on the box or just do it for specific games on PS5 without the marketing jargon. Otherwise how hard or how much engineering is actually required to automate pressing a migrate save button? The migration clearly is already technically feasible it just has to be initiated by the user.

I think this is about infrastructure on past gen and legal contracts of the publisher. There is nothing Sony can do about that now.
 
Last edited:

ZehDon

Member
Jun 13, 2013
3,548
5,312
735
Australia
After I plugged in my Xbox Series X, my wife decided she wanted to play Peggle again - which she hadn't touched since we unplugged the Xbox 360 some seven-and-change years prior. Great use of the next-gen power, but whatever. Anyway, after downloading the game, she fired it up and her save file - from seven years ago - was automatically there, ready for her to continue right where she left off. No download bars, no options menus, nothing. Like magic.

Microsoft have set the standard on this stuff in the console space. I'm sure Sony will cry themselves to sleep on the beds of money the PS5 makes knowing Microsoft have a few extra bullet points, but man, its sure nice as a player to not have to worry about this stuff.
 

sainraja

Member
Aug 15, 2007
1,413
842
1,310
i remember some gaffers attacking 'Smart Delivery' as an empty marketing term....

Some still dont realise the long term play Phil has engaged into...
It's not an attack to say the word is a marketing term. Do you guys not have an iPhone? These are quality of life features that are being branded. If you go from an old iPhone to a new one, the transition is pretty much seamless.
 

THEAP99

reposts tweets from kids about console wars
Mar 16, 2020
3,689
9,628
670
It's a big deal in the sense that migration is simpler on Xbox. But in the grand scheme of things I think most people go through these early headaches and stick with PlayStation
 

turtlepowa

Banned
Mar 27, 2020
2,366
3,980
415
I know, not saying Android doesn't. My experience with Android compared to Apple hasn't been that seamless. But it's close.
Never tried an iPhone, but got a new Andorid last week. Everything including WhatsApp messages, programs, launchers, calendar etc. was installed autoamtically after looging in with my google accoount. I Think the only thing i was missing were my custom ring tones.
 

longdi

Ni hao ma, fellow kids?
Jun 7, 2004
8,433
5,804
1,865
It's not an attack to say the word is a marketing term. Do you guys not have an iPhone? These are quality of life features that are being branded. If you go from an old iPhone to a new one, the transition is pretty much seamless.

yes but those attack attempts tried to paint off as an empty marketing term, something along the lines of, oh it is just simple low effort dual .exe copy and paste of sort
 

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
10,403
14,952
995
I don’t get this, can someone explain this image to me?
One of those games works on Series X and Xbox One, but only the BC version. The other works on both systems but offers the Series X version as well as the One version.

Activision opted out of Smart Delivery and chose to charge an extra 10.00 for the cross gen version instead.
Regardless of the xbox marketing head being slightly upset about the reaction to his marketing and linking it to "smart delivery" and xbox engineers this issue seems a little more complicated than that. Especially as Control still doesn't do it so why did smart delivery fail there? I assume it is actually based on how the game integrated with the OS on Xbox one/PS4, contracts, and EULAs and will vary on a game by game basis. It isn't some next gen engineering. It isn't something Sony can just add to PS5.

Something as simple as a publisher storing data on different servers for the next gen version would mean the user would need to agree to data migration and press a migrate button. Automatic upload to the cloud on the old Xbox one/PS4 version would be another thing.

So if a publisher already auto uploaded your old game save online on XB1 or PS4 and they use the same servers and contracts they can stick a "Smart delivery" sticker on the box or just do it for specific games on PS5 without the marketing jargon. Otherwise how hard or how much engineering is actually required to automate pressing a migrate save button? The migration clearly is already technically feasible it just has to be initiated by the user.

I think this is about infrastructure on past gen and legal contracts of the publisher. There is nothing Sony can do about that now.
Xbox doesn't force all publishers to use Smart Delivery and Control opted to not use it. You will notice its got no Smart delivery tag anywhere on any of the branding. Therefore it is irrelevant to this discussion.

The rest of your post becomes meaningless when you take that fact into account.
 

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
10,403
14,952
995
It's not an attack to say the word is a marketing term. Do you guys not have an iPhone? These are quality of life features that are being branded. If you go from an old iPhone to a new one, the transition is pretty much seamless.
To me seamless means I can do nothing and get the best experience.

For instance, that Avengers patch came out yesterday, my Xbox auto updated it and upgraded it while I was at work. I came home, signed in and clicked A and my game loaded and I was in the same spot with my same stuff, but upgraded.

Now compare that to a PS5 user yesterday. Tell me the difference between those 2 experiences are a marketing term.
 
Last edited:

sainraja

Member
Aug 15, 2007
1,413
842
1,310
yes but those attack attempts tried to paint off as an empty marketing term, something along the lines of, oh it is just simple low effort dual .exe copy and paste of sort
They branded it so they could make it their own, which is part of what marketing is. These are just quality of life features being adopted by many companies that have a product that relies heavily on software. Some companies are just a little more mature when it comes to working on software and we all know Microsoft's bread and butter has been software.
To me seamless means I can do nothing and get the best experience.

For instance, that Avengers patch came out yesterday, my Xbox auto updated it and upgraded it while I was at work. I came home, signed in and clicked A and my game loaded and I was in the same spot with my same stuff, but upgraded.

Now compare that to a PS5 user yesterday. Tell me the difference between those 2 experiences are a marketing term.
Do you have a PS5? Because even on the PS4 (on standby <-- this also applies to Xbox) you could have been at work, come home, sign in and clicked 'X' (instead of A) and have your game loaded (in the same spot with the same stuff.) As for the rest of your post, all I have to say is '🤦‍♂️' .
 
Last edited:

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
10,403
14,952
995
They branded it so they could make it their own, which is part of what marketing is. These are just quality of life features being adopted by many companies that have a product that relies heavily on software. Some companies are just a little more mature when it comes to working on software and we all know Microsoft's bread and butter has been software.

Do you have a PS5? Because even on the PS4 you could have been at work, come home, sign in and clicked 'X' (instead of A) and have your game loaded (in the same spot with the same stuff.) As for the rest of your post, all I have to say is '🤦‍♂️' .
Not true in any way shape or form. For my example.

I have to assume you are completely unaware of what PS users had to do to migrate their saves for this game, and get the next gen download or how much space you needed to do both.

It's not even remotely comparable.
 
Last edited:

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
10,403
14,952
995
Explain.

EDIT

Lol, weren't you talking about update/patch? Now you are changing it to saves?
Without the save how are you going to be in the same spot with the same stuff?

It was required on PSN.
To me seamless means I can do nothing and get the best experience.

For instance, that Avengers patch came out yesterday, my Xbox auto updated it and upgraded it while I was at work. I came home, signed in and clicked A and my game loaded and I was in the same spot with my same stuff, but upgraded.

Now compare that to a PS5 user yesterday. Tell me the difference between those 2 experiences are a marketing term.
I didnt change any goalposts.
 

sainraja

Member
Aug 15, 2007
1,413
842
1,310
Not true in any way shape or form. For my example.

I have to assume you are completely unaware of what PS users had to do to migrate their saves for this game, and get the next gen download or how much space you needed to do both.

It's not even remotely comparable.
Stop editing your post! lol.

So you are only talking about the first time experience yet the scenario you initially mentioned was of an update/patch, after having set up your box.
 

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
10,403
14,952
995
Stop editing your post! lol.

So you are only talking about the first time experience yet the scenario you initially mentioned was of an update/patch, after having set up your box.
I edited it 8 mins ago you replied 6. It hasn't changed since you replied and it was for a typo.

And no I'm specifically talking about upgrading the game Yesterday from XB1 to Series X vs PS4 to PS5 and having all your content there.
 
Last edited: