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[ResilientBanana]

Fixed and yes they do.

Ah, a Pony, got it. There's no changing your mind, you have it all figured out.

 

[Bernkastel]

Fixed and yes they do.

SSD only improves load times. Speed and Performance depends on RAM and CPU speed. Your SSD is not going to automatically make your game run at 120 fps. XSX also uses NVMe drives like PS5, so its not slow at loading speeds like you think.

 

[Monkeyclone]

Yup, 4.8GB/s sounds ok, but it's COMPRESSED, with raw being 2.4GB/s only. PS5 is doing 5.5BG/s RAW, so around 11GB/s compressed.

Still, like a minivan, you can drive it to work. That's how too much steroid hinders your agility.

Listening back Cerny stated that in optimal conditions they can do 22gb/s compressed.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Those 7 GB/s NVMe drives are not even sold in the market. They will never get as cheap as you think they will get. A 4.5 GB/s NVMe drive costs around 240 USD.
XSX expansion card contains the same drive as in the console itself, so its also being produced in mass.

Not now, but they will be available this year. They were at CES 2020

 

[Deeper Underground]

Yes, Microsoft is doing damage control on the " Worlds fastest, most power console."

Most powerful, not the fastest. It’s basically Superman vs. The Flash at this point. Also a good point that Digital Foundry brought up that we aren’t taking about, what would MS do if more and more developers adopt having these 7Gb/s SSDs and building games around it? Sony would be fine since the PS5 is built for it, but would MS have to possibly address it in an XSX Pro?

 

[Allandor]

SSD only improves load times. Speed and Performance depends on RAM and CPU speed. Your SSD is not going to automatically make your game run at 120 fps. XSX also uses NVMe drives like PS5, so its not slow at loading speeds like you think.

yes, but it can help to use the RAM (keep it clean) for better things and therefore increase speed of the rest (e.g. caching of other needed stuff).
Currently SSD only reduce the normal load-times because the games are still developed for HDDs where you must get everything into packets so they can be loaded with 100MB/s into memory and decompressed there. And the packets often include things, that are currently not needed in memory, but there they are and often duplicated through other packets.

btw, as a programmer, I really hate packet distribution. Those always get lots of other stuff on the system that is duplicated or not needed at all.

 

[Bernkastel]

Most powerful, not the fastest. It’s basically Superman vs. The Flash at this point. Also a good point that Digital Foundry brought up that we aren’t taking about, what would MS do if more and more developers adopt having these 7Gb/s SSDs and building games around it? Sony would be fine since the PS5 is built for it, but would MS have to possibly address it in an XSX Pro?

SSD only improves load times. Speed and Performance depends on RAM and CPU speed. Your SSD is not going to automatically make your game run at 120 fps. XSX also uses NVMe drives like PS5, so its not slow at loading speeds like you think.

 

[Jtibh]

Nah i like the 12tflop pr more than this.
I cant measure ram and ssd in real life.
I only understand teraflops.
12 to be exact.
Sony is fucked man dont you get it?

 

[Bernkastel]

yes, but it can help to use the RAM (keep it clean) for better things and therefore increase speed of the rest (e.g. caching of other needed stuff).
Currently SSD only reduce the normal load-times because the games are still developed for HDDs where you must get everything into packets so they can be loaded with 100MB/s into memory and decompressed there. And the packets often include things, that are currently not needed in memory, but there they are and often duplicated through other packets.

btw, as a programmer, I really hate packet distribution. Those always get lots of other stuff on the system that is duplicated or not needed at all.

Xbox also does that

Defining the Next Generation: An Xbox Series X|S Technology Glossary - Xbox Wire

[Editor’s Note: Updated on 10/21 at 11AM to ensure it is now reflective of the capabilities across both of our next-gen Xbox consoles following the unveil of Xbox Series S.] As we enter a new generation of console gaming with Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S, we’ve made a number of technology...

news.xbox.com

DirectStorage – DirectStorage is an all new I/O system designed specifically for gaming to unleash the full performance of the SSD and hardware decompression. It is one of the components that comprise the Xbox Velocity Architecture. Modern games perform asset streaming in the background to continuously load the next parts of the world while you play, and DirectStorage can reduce the CPU overhead for these I/O operations from multiple cores to taking just a small fraction of a single core; thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better physics or more NPCs in a scene. This newest member of the DirectX family is being introduced with Xbox Series X and we plan to bring it to Windows as well. 4

Hardware Decompression – Hardware decompression is a dedicated hardware component introduced with Xbox Series X to allow games to consume as little space as possible on the SSD while eliminating all CPU overhead typically associated with run-time decompression. It reduces the software overhead of decompression when operating at full SSD performance from more than three CPU cores to zero – thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better gameplay and improved framerates. Hardware decompression is one of the components of the Xbox Velocity Architecture.

 

[Deeper Underground]

SSD only improves load times. Speed and Performance depends on RAM and CPU speed. Your SSD is not going to automatically make your game run at 120 fps. XSX also uses NVMe drives like PS5, so its not slow at loading speeds like you think.

This is not true. Having the ability to have the I/O throughput being at the speed it’s at, it will lead to more stable frame rates while streaming in higher textures at a consistent rate. Look at what happened when players swapped from HDD to SSD for Star Citizen. One of the biggest benefits was increased and more consistent FPS. This narrative that the SSD will only be for faster loading and that’s it, is quite irksome.

 

[Bernkastel]

Nah i like the 12tflop pr more than this.
I cant measure ram and ssd in real life.
I only understand teraflops.
12 to be exact.
Sony is fucked man dont you get it?

Specs dont lie. Somehow XSX specs are PR in your head.

 

[Bernkastel]

This is not true. Having the ability to have the I/O throughput being at the speed it’s at, it will lead to more stable frame rates while streaming in higher textures at a consistent rate. Look at what happened when players swapped from HDD to SSD for Star Citizen. One of the biggest benefits was increased and more consistent FPS. This narrative that the SSD will only be for faster loading and that’s it, is quite irksome.

XSX also uses high speed NVMe drives. Its not like Sony's SSDs will launch ICBMs with nuclear warheads and cure world hunger.

 

[ZywyPL]

I honestly don't see any difference between MS and Sony SSD solutions other than max bandwidth. They are both designed to do literally the exact same thing for game design/development. I guess all the hype PS5 SSD gets is because the bandwidth is the only number where on paper it's better than XBX...

 

[Caio]

This Xbox Velocity Architecture is so fascinating. I still can't believe MS could put all this in a Console, the hardware is amazing, CPU, GPU at 12.155 TF Custom RDNA2 architecture + Ray Tracing, (giving XSX a "25TF" while Ray tracing according to Digital Foundry, with standard shaders running in parallele with RT), and the SSD, holy crap, Developers just must take full advantage of it. This is the most exciting generation ever, this Console is a furious beast.

 

[Goliathy]

look in real world the bigger gpu wins all the time.

best example rtx 2080ti vs rtx 2080 ultra
2080ti is bigger and slower
2080ultra is smaller but has 300Hz more clock speed.

the similarities to xsx and gpu and ps5 gpu are ridiculous

2080ti wins in all games in under all conditions

stop talking bullshit

wtf. That’s a HUGE difference. XD

 

[Deeper Underground]

XSX also uses high speed NVMe drives. Its not like Sony's SSDs will launch ICBMs with nuclear warheads and cure world hunger.

Lol Oh ok, I thought we were having a decent neutral conversation, but it’s clear what you’re all about. Carry on.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Most powerful, not the fastest. It’s basically Superman vs. The Flash at this point. Also a good point that Digital Foundry brought up that we aren’t taking about, what would MS do if more and more developers adopt having these 7Gb/s SSDs and building games around it? Sony would be fine since the PS5 is built for it, but would MS have to possibly address it in an XSX Pro?

They've gone 1st-party at that point (no other platform can guarantee that performance level, and likely won't in the next 7 or 8 years), so MS wouldn't/couldn't do anything at that point. The question becomes do developers want to put all their eggs in one basket. Because of the consoles, you might start seeing more games that require SSD, but they'll try to accommodate most of the existing market.

 

[Goliathy]

Most powerful, not the fastest. It’s basically Superman vs. The Flash at this point. Also a good point that Digital Foundry brought up that we aren’t taking about, what would MS do if more and more developers adopt having these 7Gb/s SSDs and building games around it? Sony would be fine since the PS5 is built for it, but would MS have to possibly address it in an XSX Pro?

For multiplatform Games? Never going to happen.

most PC users don’t even have SSDs. Lol

 

[splattered]

wtf. That’s a HUGE difference. XD

Considering that the PS5 is closer to a 2070 vs XsX being a 2080ti though...

 

[Clear]

Considering that the PS5 is closer to a 2070 vs XsX being a 2080ti though...

Two parts that of course aren't the same price, whereas the Xbro fantasists are banking on SX being the same price as PS5/

 

[Deeper Underground]

Two parts that of course aren't the same price, whereas the Xbro fantasists are banking on SX being the same price as PS5/

If Sony can sell the PS5 at $399, it’s going to sell hot cakes and I think Sony realizes that with the way they built PS5.

 

[Bernkastel]

Two parts that of course aren't the same price, whereas the Xbro fantasists are banking on SX being the same price as PS5/

That SSD will play a factor in PS5's price as much as XSX's raw specs does. There is nothing fanatic about that.

 

[ClearMind]

This is what I expect to happen once again next gen.

 

[Allandor]

Xbox also does that

Defining the Next Generation: An Xbox Series X|S Technology Glossary - Xbox Wire

[Editor’s Note: Updated on 10/21 at 11AM to ensure it is now reflective of the capabilities across both of our next-gen Xbox consoles following the unveil of Xbox Series S.] As we enter a new generation of console gaming with Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S, we’ve made a number of technology...

news.xbox.com

never said that it won't. It is just not loading-speed that you can increase with fast storage, that's my point. Your's was that you would only increase loading speed, and that only half of the truth. And yes, both consoles will profit from the fast storage.
The other thing to ask is just, can the GPU/CPU combination handle those really fast streams from the SSD in a useful manner.

 

[quest]

If Sony can sell the PS5 at $399, it’s going to sell hot cakes and I think Sony realizes that with the way they built PS5.

Except the uber expensive SSD and cooling system that balance out the extra apu costs Microsoft has. These are about thr same cost to make or the series x is cheaper thanks to that insane SSD driving costs up.

 

[Jtibh]

Specs dont lie. Somehow XSX specs are PR in your head.

You fail to see in my comment how little i care and how stupid there arguments are.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Most powerful, not the fastest. It’s basically Superman vs. The Flash at this point. Also a good point that Digital Foundry brought up that we aren’t taking about, what would MS do if more and more developers adopt having these 7Gb/s SSDs and building games around it? Sony would be fine since the PS5 is built for it, but would MS have to possibly address it in an XSX Pro?

In this analogy, Superman is the XsX right?

 

[Dunnas]

Well yes, and no. PS5 is 3500MHz with 8/16 threads. Series X is 3600MHz with 8/16 and only goes to 3800MHz with 8/8 threads.

FYI, not that it makes any real difference, but I believe it is actually 3.66GHz with SMT based on the specs on a lot of sites (not the initial DF ones though). It seems that Microsoft is comfortable enough with rounding down for that and the TF number, so most people aren’t aware.

 

[Dunnas]

Fixed and yes they do.

I guess a pc with a 680 GTX and an SSD is also faster than one with a 2080ti and a HDD. Because as we all know, a pc’s performance has always been judged on the storage speed, and that isn’t just something that happened to change only in the last 2 days for some reason that I couldn’t possibly guess.

 

[Deeper Underground]

In this analogy, Superman is the XsX right?

 

[Bernkastel]

This is what I expect to happen once again next gen.

Ignoring this cherry picked screenshot(most of the time Xbox One X trumped the PS4 Pro), SSD's wont dramatically improve framerate over an actual spec advantage.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Must be hard days for you

Because repeating the same news in three hundred threads is surely a much better sign eh ?

 

[Deeper Underground]

Ignoring this cherry picked screenshot(most of the time Xbox One X trumped the PS4 Pro), SSD's wont improve framerate.

This. Is. Literally. False.

TIPS & TRICKS TO IMPROVE PERFORMANCE IN STAR CITIZEN
There are some basic tips you can follow to improve the framerate and stability of Star Citizen Alpha 3.4.

USE SSD HARD DRIVE
Be sure to use a fast SSD hard drive for Star Citizen (or any other fast and graphics-intensive game). This is perhaps the most important performance tip of all. A normal HDD won’t work well.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The other requiring I believe Cerny said 7GB/s ‘off the shelf’ SSD.

Not quite, 5.5 GB/s and just a bit more only if your SSD does not support enough priority levels.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I think the propriety add on storage will be better for the consumer too.

Can we travel back in time to the PSP days when people gave Sony shit for the Memory Stick cards ? Or the PS Vita memory ones?

 

[Kacho]

Ignoring this cherry picked screenshot(most of the time Xbox One X trumped the PS4 Pro), SSD's wont dramatically improve framerate over an actual spec advantage.

Unfortunately there's nothing you can do to combat rampant fanboyism. Logic and reason go out the window so it's literally impossible. I commend your patience and effort though.

 

[Deeper Underground]

Can we travel back in time to the PSP days when people gave Sony shit for the Memory Stick cards ? Or the PS Vita memory ones?

Lol this isn’t the first time MS got a pass for proprietary storage before either. Anyone remember the X360 hard drives? I do because I had several fail on my 360.

 

[Tomeru]

I guess a pc with a 680 GTX and an SSD is also faster than one with a 2080ti and a HDD. Because as we all know, a pc’s performance has always been judged on the storage speed, and that isn’t just something that happened to change only in the last 2 days for some reason that I couldn’t possibly guess.

How about a pc with 2070 ssd and a pc with 2080 hdd?

 

[too much eslim]

This. Is. Literally. False.

Question is this because it is designed based off SSD. I remember seeing a video where a guy tried to play star citizen off the HDD. And it started chugging a long. So wouldn't it only affect frame rate that way? Isn't that the reason XSX and PS5 games will not play off the HDD?

 

[Panajev2001a]

PS5 vs. Xbox Series X: a complicated battle of SSD and GPU speeds

Game developers will demonstrate the real power of both consoles

www.theverge.com

A dev commented

Considering Cerny repeatedly said there are height restrictions in the bay I think it is safe to say that they do not need to add huge heat sinks on the SSD drives you buy to extend the storage.
Ease of development wise, we shall see... a memory split with a 200 GB/s difference between the pools is not much different from a split memory architecture and so far Sony’s Cerny led systems have all been easy and satisfying for devs to code for and optimise (PS Vita, PS4, PS4 Pro, and from many other random dev comments PS5 looks to have been built the same way).

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Can we travel back in time to the PSP days when people gave Sony shit for the Memory Stick cards ? Or the PS Vita memory ones?

That’s a totally different thing, those were genuinely proprietary technology. These are only proprietary in that they have a specific metal casing / heat sink to guarantee performance. That’s it.

Also like I already said, they will be cheaper and more readily available than the ones suitable for the PS5. So more consumer friendly.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Can we travel back in time to the PSP days when people gave Sony shit for the Memory Stick cards ? Or the PS Vita memory ones?

Depends on how much predatory comes along with the propriety. Vita 32GB $70 VS. 32GB SD for $20 at the time. 360 500GB HDD released at $120, comparable new drive $85. There's a limit on what is acceptable and what will cause consumer outrage.

 

[Bernkastel]

Lol this isn’t the first time MS got a pass for proprietary storage before either. Anyone remember the X360 hard drives? I do because I had several fail on my 360.

There were guides online to use certain Western Digital hard drives and format them for Xbox 360. I still have that 500 GB WD5000LPVX with enclosure that I created for my Xbox 360.

 

[Panajev2001a]

That’s a totally different thing, those were genuinely proprietary technology. These are only proprietary in that they have a specific metal casing / heat sink to guarantee performance. That’s it.

Yeah... proprietary and yet you could buy them from Sandisk as well as Sony and others. Loving this, people throwing shit at the PSP for the Memory Stick based storage and defending the SSD you can only buy from MS as more pro-consumer... .

 

[Kacho]

Question is this because it is designed based off SSD. I remember seeing a video where a guy tried to play star citizen off the HDD. And it started chugging a long. So wouldn't it only affect frame rate that way? Isn't that the reason XSX and PS5 games will not play off the HDD?

Presumably yes. World of Warcraft also has that problem on PC. Loading up on SSD is quick and there's no stuttering once you're in the world. On HDD it's like your computer is going to explode for the first 10 minutes.

 

[Panajev2001a]

There were guides online to use Western Digital hard drives and format them for Xbox 360. I still have that 500 GB WD5000LPVX with enclosure that I created for my Xbox 360.

Oh yeah... and people found hacks to use SD’s on Vita too, so ?

 

[it_wasn't_me]

SSD only improves load times. Speed and Performance depends on RAM and CPU speed. Your SSD is not going to automatically make your game run at 120 fps. XSX also uses NVMe drives like PS5, so its not slow at loading speeds like you think.

In your eyes yes, in devs eyes....beyond loading

 

[Bernkastel]

Yeah... proprietary and yet you could buy them from Sandisk as well as Sony and others. Loving this, people throwing shit at the PSP for the Memory Stick based storage and defending the SSD you can only buy from MS as more pro-consumer... .

You buy it from Seagate, not Microsoft.

 

[Batiman]

Must be hard days for you

You should of seen him before the reveal. Lololololol

 

[Panajev2001a]

Depends on how much predatory comes along with the propriety. Vita 32GB $70 VS. 32GB SD for $20 at the time. 360 500GB HDD released at $120, comparable new drive $85. There's a limit on what is acceptable and what will cause consumer outrage.

The same shit was thrown at Sony for the PSP which used Memory Stick cards. Much cheaper, non Sony exclusive, and still gathered scorn. Xbox 360 and XSX HDD/SSD packaged in a proprietary enclosure though = pro-consumer...