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[Night_Trekker]

I'm kind of surprised by how many people dismiss the battle systems in the Lunar games as samey. Having your actual position on the battlefield determine which enemies you could attack within a single turn (and which enemies could attack you, and therefore who needed to defend or move during that turn) certainly was not, to the best of my knowledge, a standard in turn-based JRPGs at the time. I love that about SS's and EB's battle systems.

 

[Tamanon]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

Sad to me that I've said this from day 1 and everyone scoffed at me. It takes the fucking innovator himself to call them out on this board before people will listen.

One of the reasons I'm glad I don't play JRPGs anymore.

Wait, so you don't play JRPGs any more because .... other companies have chosen to provide extras with games?

I'd like to also add that Atlus proved that you can still make quality translations with not nearly as much Americanization.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I'm kind of surprised by how many people dismiss the battle systems in the Lunar games as samey. Having your actual position on the battlefield determine which enemies you could attack within a single turn (and which enemies could attack you, and therefore who needed to defend or move during that turn) certainly was not, to the best of my knowledge, a standard in turn-based JRPGs at the time. I love that about SS's and EB's battle systems.

In practice, it doesn't affect much. It was definitely a half-step on the way to Grandia.

 

[toneroni]

Thanks for joining in the conversation vic, it's not too often we get devs really interested in posting.

This

Also, still have to decide which version I should play through since I never finished the PSX one. Guess i'll wait for impressions when its out.

 

[Nairume]

In practice, it doesn't affect much. It was definitely a half-step on the way to Grandia.

Yeah, in the Sega CD Lunar, you didn't even chose where you ended up at. Characters just kind of scrambled.

Quite frankly, moving around was so pointless that I'd just rather have the streamlined system from Lunar Legend.

All Vic is doing is saying that he laid the groundwork for that.

...in America.

And it's kind of unfair to call out Atlus on ripping off Working Designs style when they are largely doing what their overseas parent does.

It also works out better for them because their bonus/special edition stuff never really adds to the price (and it does very little if it ever happens). WD went a little overboard sometimes, and it really hurt the games in the long run, namely Arc the Lad.

 

[duckroll]

And it's kind of unfair to call out Atlus on ripping off Working Designs style when they are largely doing what their overseas parent does.

Are they? Atlus Japan has never been huge about pre-order bonuses or LEs. The Persona PSP pre-order bonus soundtrack is one of the exceptions, hardly the rule. The only other exception I can think of is the Odin Sphere artbook bonus in Japan. Atlus USA has an LE or pre-order bonus with pretty much EVERY release. Atlus Japan does not, and nothing they have done historically indicates that Atlus USA picked up the habit from their Japanese parent.

 

[Freyjadour]

It also works out better for them because their bonus/special edition stuff never really adds to the price (and it does very little if it ever happens). WD went a little overboard sometimes, and it really hurt the games in the long run, namely Arc the Lad.

Did it though? Considering what we got with Arc, I didn't mind the wait. Hell, I'd still be happy to be waiting for that Ys Collection.

 

[Volcynika]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

Sad to me that I've said this from day 1 and everyone scoffed at me. It takes the fucking innovator himself to call them out on this board before people will listen.

One of the reasons I'm glad I don't play JRPGs anymore.

Some days, GAF just makes me go "what"

 

[Jim]

I have just over 10 hours in a final (UMD) copy of the game, and coming from a big Lunar fan, I think it's great. It totally sucked me in again, and I haven't played much of anything besides it over the past few days.

In terms of voice acting, there's seriously not that many voiceovers in the game so far other than what's in the demo. The only time almost anything is spoken is during the animated cut-scenes. Within the game itself, there are a very few instances where voice is used. And it sounds fine.

I don't mind the translation either. It's not all just plain vanilla either, there's a little bit of pop culture references in there like the original translation. After playing the Sega CD version so many times, I personally don't mind a fresh interpretation of it.

The UMD loading times when moving between areas and rooms is about a second longer than what is in the demo. It's a bit frequent (happens every single room), though they aren't super annoying. I've also confirmed with Xseed that a PSN version will be released as well. After comparing it to the demo, I'd pick-up the PSN version over UMD, personally.

 

[Volcynika]

PSN version? Noice!

Also, good to have some positivity in this thread!

 

[Enron]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

Sad to me that I've said this from day 1 and everyone scoffed at me. It takes the fucking innovator himself to call them out on this board before people will listen.

One of the reasons I'm glad I don't play JRPGs anymore.

Uhm, you think providing tons of extras is something worthy of being "called out for" because someone did it before Atlus in the past? Ok, wow.

Some days, GAF just makes me go "what"

Yup.

I'd like to also add that Atlus proved that you can still make quality translations with not nearly as much Americanization.

Maybe everyone would love XSeed too if they slipped a couple of jokes about a stained blue dress or Socks the Cat in the localization

Spoiler

and delay the game into eternity

 

[eternalb]

After playing through the demo the other night, I am a tad bit disappointed in what XSeed has delivered in terms of balance between new translation and keeping the old WD charm.

First thing though, what did they do to the opening song! I am all for accuracy in translations, but as a writer myself, words are not always the most important aspect of a story. The lyrics just seem generic to me now. No sense of the themes of Lunar.

Lunar: SS, to me, has always been about two things. Alex fulfilling his dreams, becoming a Dragonmaster, like his hero Dyne and the trials and tribulations of love that Alex and Luna experience together.

In what they offer in the demo, the script seems very dry. The line with Quark near the end, referring to his diamonds, feels forced to appease to the nostalgia of the WD versions. I hope the text gets a little more editing.

I will hold off my final judgment until I play the final version. I will still be buying the game as a fan of the Lunar series, hoping for a true next gen sequel one day. I just wish this demo showed me that XSeed has love for Lunar like Vic does. First impressions leave me feeling that XSeed is just trying to bank on nostalgic, rather than bring Lunar to a whole new generation.

 

[notworksafe]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

Sad to me that I've said this from day 1 and everyone scoffed at me. It takes the fucking innovator himself to call them out on this board before people will listen.

One of the reasons I'm glad I don't play JRPGs anymore.

Yeah man, I hate it when I get free stuff with my games too. What jerks.

 

[Freshmaker]

Maybe everyone would love XSeed too if they slipped a couple of jokes about a stained blue dress or Socks the Cat in the localization

Spoiler

and delay the game into eternity

I don't get why Atlus gets a pass for stuff like dedicating a character to quoting The Rock in their games (which I doubt was in the original story) while WD was hated by animu's for doing the same thing.

 

[Nairume]

Are they? Atlus Japan has never been huge about pre-order bonuses or LEs. The Persona PSP pre-order bonus soundtrack is one of the exceptions, hardly the rule. The only other exception I can think of is the Odin Sphere artbook bonus in Japan. Atlus USA has an LE or pre-order bonus with pretty much EVERY release. Atlus Japan does not, and nothing they have done historically indicates that Atlus USA picked up the habit from their Japanese parent.

I thought wrong then.

Did it though? Considering what we got with Arc, I didn't mind the wait. Hell, I'd still be happy to be waiting for that Ys Collection.

Honestly, yeah, it probably did. I gladly shelled out the money for the collection back in the day, but after never actually using *any* of the stuff in the omake box. Seriously, what am I going to do with a Memory Card case that only holds one memory card? I already had a case that held everything and wasn't supposed to be a collectors item. I watched the making of disc only once, though I'm actually going to watch it again because I could have sworn Vic said something in there (or maybe on the forums) that he immediately went back on shortly after (and I lost a serious amount of respect for him because of it).

I had a lot of fun with the games themselves, but the bonuses weren't anything spectacular. In retrospect, I think I'd have been much happier if WD had just released a separate barebones release of the collection at a lower price. Sure, including myself, there are plenty of WD fans and RPG fanatics here that would have been willing to pay the price at the time, but I still say that the game probably would have sold better.

Now, I will say this in defense of Working Designs. While their localizations in their early years definitely had issues (though I admittedly still enjoyed them), the quality of writing that was their work on the Arc games were absolutely fantastic (and I assume that quality held over into Growlanser).

 

[2DMention]

Why did this get pushed back 3 weeks?
Are they trying to stay true to Working Designs all the way down to that? (Remember the PSOne game got pushed back like a year?)

 

[eternalb]

Why did this get pushed back 3 weeks?
Are they trying to stay true to Working Designs all the way down to that? (Remember the PSOne game got pushed back like a year?)

Most likely do to all the overwhelmingly positive comments in this post.

 

[mjc]

ITT: People complain about new game not being exactly like the old one.

 

[eternalb]

ITT: People complain about new game not being exactly like the old one.

It is a remake and not a port so it shouldn't be exact. But what was shown in the demo lacks the spirit of the WD versions.

 

[mjc]

It is a remake and not a port so it shouldn't be exact. But what was shown in the demo lacks the spirit of the WD versions.

So if its a remake, why does it need to reuse the WD translations? Fans of the WD translations still have the old versions of the game, there's no use continually whining about this remake when it isn't gonna make a difference.

 

[Nairume]

So what if it doesn't have what the WD releases had? I know virtually everybody here is going to probably come down on me for this one, but Lunar Legend was perfectly fine without them. Yes, Ubisoft's work on it was fairly dry, but the charm of the cast and plot was still very much able to stand on its own without needing Working Designs to help hold it up.

As it stands, Working Designs hasn't worked with the series for almost a decade (and will be a decade come this December). They had their time to keep being associated with the series but willingly allowed for the torch to be passed on to other people. Let's give Xseed a chance to see how the whole thing goes before passing judgement on them and forcing them to move their show past midnight.

 

[MCD]

I've also confirmed with Xseed that a PSN version will be released as well. After comparing it to the demo, I'd pick-up the PSN version over UMD, personally.

finally some good shit in this thread.

thanks bro.

 

[eternalb]

So if its a remake, why does it need to reuse the WD translations? Fans of the WD translations still have the old versions of the game, there's no use continually whining about this remake when it isn't gonna make a difference.

It doesn't nor should it, but I think your missing the point of what I said. The short demo lacks the spirit of the WD versions. Just watch the opening song. To me, it seems very generic and doesn't touch on what Lunar is all about" that WD made sure was apparent, regardless of their script.

Don't worry though, I'll still be buying it being a Lunar fan first. And like i said in early posts, I will be holding my final judgment to the end.

 

[mjc]

It doesn't nor should it, but I think your missing the point of what I said. The short demo lacks the spirit of the WD versions. Just watch the opening song. To me, it seems very generic and doesn't touch on what Lunar is all about" that WD made sure was apparent, regardless of their script.

Don't worry though, I'll still be buying it being a Lunar fan first. And like i said in early posts, I will be holding my final judgment to the end.

I never played the older WD versions, so I don't know what the "Lunar spirit" is. Thats not the game's fault though.

 

[Freyjadour]

ITT: People complain about new game not being exactly like the old one.

I never played the older WD versions, so I don't know what the "Lunar spirit" is. Thats not the game's fault though.

Then what qualifies you to pass judgment on people who did play the WD versions and prefer what was there over what is here? :lol

 

[eternalb]

I never played the older WD versions, so I don't know what the "Lunar spirit" is. Thats not the game's fault though.

Well, I pray the version lets you experience it. Lunar has always had a special place in my memories for games and though I enjoy the battle system, it's always been the story that has given it that importance to me.

Thankfully the music is still the same...

 

[MCD]

i played both ps1 lunar games and the gba one and honestly don't see what's this script fuss is all about then again i played it when i was a little brat who barely understood basic english

i am so gonna enjoy playing this classic gem on my soon to be purchased psp go and its glorious screen, it' a real shame game bombed hard in japan and will no doubt bomb harder in the US+EU because i wanted lunar 2 psp so bad.

 

[mjc]

Then what qualifies you to pass judgment on people who did play the WD versions and prefer what was there over what is here? :lol

I'm not passing judgment. I haven't made comments about the quality of the WD translations, but surely I have an opinion in the overall matter..no? What I see coming into this thread as a person who's never played Lunar is a host of people complaining about something that XSeed never promised for this remake in the first place. What's the point in complaining when its not going to change anything, especially when its detracting from constructive discussion that could be going on about the other parts of the game?

 

[eternalb]

You know, much of this could all be resolved if they would somehow release the PS1 version on PSN. Then everyone wins.

Maybe Vic can shed some light on this subject, unless it was already discussed earlier.

 

[Freyjadour]

You know, much of this could all be resolved if they would somehow release the PS1 version on PSN. Then everyone wins.

Maybe Vic can shed some light on this subject, unless it was already discussed earlier.

If I recall, he said something about legal issues being up in the air on the release of Alundra as a PSOne Classic. Probably similar things with Lunar and the like.

 

[eternalb]

I'd assume so. How can you justify remaking the same game if the original is available on the same platform for a fourth of the price...?

 

[Nairume]

Well, I pray the version lets you experience it. Lunar has always had a special place in my memories for games and though I enjoy the battle system, it's always been the story that has given it that importance to me.

Thankfully the music is still the same...

Unless the Japanese version lacks the Lunar spirit or Xseed completely bungles things more than Ubisoft, the Lunar charm will be perfectly fine. Ubisoft's dry localization did nothing to ruin that charm, so I seriously doubt Xseed's work will have any problems in that area.

Working Designs merely added to the charm. They are not the source of it.

 

[RurouniZel]

I don't get why Atlus gets a pass for stuff like dedicating a character to quoting The Rock in their games (which I doubt was in the original story) while WD was hated by animu's for doing the same thing.

Let's not forget NISA, they throw in pop culture stuff as well ("Wait.. am I on Screw'd?"), but neither they nor Atlas are criticized by their fans for this while they happily throw poo in WD's direction for those very things.

Granted, NISA tends to get flake for other more important reasons...

 

[Nairume]

Let's not forget NISA, they throw in pop culture stuff as well ("Wait.. am I on Screw'd?"), but neither they nor Atlas are criticized by their fans for this while they happily throw poo in WD's direction for those very things.

Granted, NISA tends to get flake for other more important reasons...

There's nothing wrong with pop culture references themselves. It's just that Working Designs was honestly really terrible at handling them until their later projects. Atlus and the others aren't getting a pass. They're just typically better at writing them, possibly because they knew from Working Designs what not to do.

But, there you go, that's another area that WD served as a model for.

 

[Mejilan]

So what if it doesn't have what the WD releases had? I know virtually everybody here is going to probably come down on me for this one, but Lunar Legend was perfectly fine without them. Yes, Ubisoft's work on it was fairly dry, but the charm of the cast and plot was still very much able to stand on its own without needing Working Designs to help hold it up.

:lol
Well, there goes any illusion I might have had about your credibility.

 

[Nairume]

:lol
Well, there goes any illusion I might have had about your credibility.

Hey, if 90% of GAF is allowed to have their retarded and borderline insane views, I'm allowed mine.

Seriously, though, could anybody actually give any reason why LL lacked any charm, aside from the voice acting not being present? I've played through all three versions of Silver Star released here thus far. It was fine.

 

[Freshmaker]

There's nothing wrong with pop culture references themselves. It's just that Working Designs was honestly really terrible at handling them until their later projects. Atlus and the others aren't getting a pass. They're just typically better at writing them, possibly because they knew from Working Designs what not to do.

Aside from Albert Odyssey, I don't see this at all.

 

[Nairume]

Aside from Albert Odyssey, I don't see this at all.

"JINGLE BELLS, GHALEON SMELLS, XENOBIA'S A RAG"

Granted, it's mostly their early stuff. I don't really remember anything from their Playstation games on being all that bad, and Arc the Lad seemed pretty devoid of it.

 

[Mejilan]

Hey, if 90% of GAF is allowed to have their retarded and borderline insane views, I'm allowed mine.

Seriously, though, could anybody actually give any reason why LL lacked any charm, aside from the voice acting not being present? I've played through all three versions of Silver Star released here thus far. It was fine.

I'll have to skew towards vague since I haven't touched Lunar Legends since I beat it ages ago (unlike say the PSOne version, which I've revisited a few times since then), but it recall it being a fairly wretched localization. Granted, it wasn't quite as ludicrously bad as Ubi's work on Guardian Heroes Advance, but it comes close at times. Calling the script dry doesn't even begin to describe it. It was utterly leeched of anything remotely resembling character or charm. It so completely missed the point in every possible sense, that I STILL hold it up as a prime example of a poor job done.

It's not an awful localization when compared to Working Design's work... it's just an awful localization.

To say nothing of the broken combat system and ridiculous number of bugs the game featured, some of them pretty game-breaking.

I dug the redone art, though. It's probably still my favorite looking Lunar, from a gameplay perspective. And yes, that includes this imminent new version. I loved the way the battle sprites looked and animated, not to mention the battle backgrounds.

I'd need to compare script dumps to get any more specific, but I don't care enough about Legends to take things that far.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

:lol
Well, there goes any illusion I might have had about your credibility.

Be nice, nostalgia does terrible things to people!

 

[RurouniZel]

"JINGLE BELLS, GHALEON SMELLS, XENOBIA'S A RAG"

Granted, it's mostly their early stuff. I don't really remember anything from their Playstation games on being all that bad, and Arc the Lad seemed pretty devoid of it.

But see, here's a prime example of why I love the way WD handled it rather than Atlas/NISA. That line right there, isn't in the main story, it's an NPC conversation. In other words, it's optional. You can play the entire game from beginning to end and never encounter this line.

Meanwhile I have encountered pop culture references in spots of the main story in Atlas and NISA (like the aforementioned "Wait... am I on Skrew'd?" line I mentioned...). Albert Odyssey messed this up, I'll give you that. But the others are largely the scenario I mentioned above.

+ 1 WD

 

[Nairume]

I'll have to skew towards vague since I haven't touched Lunar Legends since I beat it ages ago (unlike say the PSOne version, which I've revisited a few times since then), but it recall it being a fairly wretched localization. Granted, it wasn't quite as ludicrously bad as Ubi's work on Guardian Heroes Advance, but it comes close at times. Calling the script dry doesn't even begin to describe it. It was utterly leeched of anything remotely resembling character or charm. It so completely missed the point in every possible sense, that I STILL hold it up as a prime example of a poor job done.

I'd need to compare script dumps to get any more specific, but I don't care enough about Legends to take things that far.

To make sure I wasn't remembering things wrong after not having played it for a while, I went ahead and started a new game in it. First thing I noticed was that the sprites make up a lot of new charm where the old games really couldn't outside of the animated cutscenes (and, even then, the Sega CD scenes were pretty limited too). But that's not the issue, I guess.

The script seems perfectly fine so far. The biggest thing that jumps out is that Nash still retains his city boy bigotry. The others in the initial scenes still seem the same as they always did, just a little bit less exagurated.

I stand by my former claim. Yes, Working Designs bring out the charm to a more notable level, but the game has that charm to begin with and it doesn't seem to have lost it in Ubisoft's stewardship thus far.

Be nice, nostalgia does terrible things to people!

Yes it does. Which is why, instead of the usual GAF response of just blue smiley-ing it off, I'm replaying the game to see if what I remember holds true after 7-8 years of changed expectations, aging, and possibly becoming jaded with the genre.

So far, the game's holding up well to what I remember.

 

[-Oath]

Every time I hear or see more of this game my hype meter goes down a notch. Ill need to hear more about the retranslation but as of now its a no buy.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

To make sure I wasn't remembering things wrong after not having played it for a while, I went ahead and started a new game in it. First thing I noticed was that the sprites make up a lot of new charm where the old games really couldn't outside of the animated cutscenes (and, even then, the Sega CD scenes were pretty limited too). But that's not the issue, I guess.

The script seems perfectly fine so far. The biggest thing that jumps out is that Nash still retains his city boy bigotry. The others in the initial scenes still seem the same as they always did, just a little bit less exagurated.

I stand by my former claim. Yes, Working Designs bring out the charm to a more notable level, but the game has that charm to begin with and it doesn't seem to have lost it in Ubisoft's stewardship thus far.


Yes it does. Which is why, instead of the usual GAF response of just blue smiley-ing it off, I'm replaying the game to see if what I remember holds true after 7-8 years of changed expectations, aging, and possibly becoming jaded with the genre.

So far, the game's holding up well to what I remember.

Well, no offence, but if that's your opinion, you have really low standards for localization. Which is fine, and actually good for you, but it makes your opinion essentially worthless on the topic for people with higher standards.

 

[Nairume]

Well, no offence, but if that's your opinion, you have really low standards for localization. Which is fine, and actually good for you, but it makes your opinion essentially worthless on the topic for people with higher standards.

It's dry. There's no denying that. There are plenty of grammatical errors. Yes, it is inferior to what Working Designs produced and what Xseed probably is producing. However, nothing the game has on its own is lost in it all. My point was that Lunar's charm comes out in spite of it all. Nothing Xseed can do, short of completely rewriting everything, can cause the game to lose what makes the plot and characters so memorable. There's really nothing to worry about outside of the people who are so caught up with the idea that Lunar can't work without Working Designs holding it up.

I could care less if you think my opinion is worthless.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

It's dry. There's no denying that. There are plenty of grammatical errors. Yes, it is inferior to what Working Designs produced and what Xseed probably is producing. However, nothing the game has on its own is lost in it all. My point was that Lunar's charm comes out in spite of it all. Nothing Xseed can do, short of completely rewriting everything, can cause the game to lose what makes the plot and characters so memorable. There's really nothing to worry about outside of the people who are so caught up with the idea that Lunar can't work without Working Designs holding it up.

I could care less if you think my opinion is worthless.

Hmm, you shouldn't care, I'm just a random guy on the internet.

I'm glad Lunar's charm still comes out to you in the Ubisoft translation. I really can't agree. I think Lunar comes off like a shitty Gust RPG in the Ubi version. I really doubt XSEED's version will be that bad, but it doesn't change the fact that I don't want it.

 

[Stage On]

After comparing it to the demo, I'd pick-up the PSN version over UMD, personally.

But then you'd miss out on the awsome extra's from the limited edition! What true Lunar fan wouldn't want those?

The new opening song and translation might be slightly different but they are no less magical then they where years ago judging from my experince with the Demo so far. XSeed is a fantastic localization company and I don't doubt that this Lunar is going to rock just as much as the old ones did.

People who are passing it over for such trival reasons are the ones missing out in the end. This isn't Lunar Legends but the real Silver Star deal.

 

[Mejilan]

It's dry. There's no denying that. There are plenty of grammatical errors. Yes, it is inferior to what Working Designs produced and what Xseed probably is producing. However, nothing the game has on its own is lost in it all. My point was that Lunar's charm comes out in spite of it all. Nothing Xseed can do, short of completely rewriting everything, can cause the game to lose what makes the plot and characters so memorable. There's really nothing to worry about outside of the people who are so caught up with the idea that Lunar can't work without Working Designs holding it up.

I could care less if you think my opinion is worthless.

Ah, no offense, but your words brand you. Your localization standards are, apparently, so low that you and I literally have no foundation upon which we can have any kind of meaningful discourse about the subject. The gutted dialog, personalities leeched of any... well, personality, and overall sloppy localization render Lunar Legends the perfect example for me. It's recognizably Lunar without any of the charm and character that's expected of the franchise, and so, sells it to me. The game's only real saving grace at the time was the portability factor, and that was rendered moot years ago with PSP custom firmware.

 

[souvlakispacestation]

I don't doubt that this Lunar is going to rock just as much as the old ones did.

It's not as good as the old ones. Not even close. Sorry.

People who are passing it over for such trival reasons are the ones missing out in the end.

Indeed. If they pass, it should be due to the terrible, repetitive load times, and dumbed down battle difficulty.

The best part about the psp port was the crystal clear anime cinemas, to be honest. I still played through to the end, as I'm a big Lunar fan, but I can't say it's what I hoped it would be, and it's certainly nowhere near as good as the Sega CD originals or Saturn/PS1 remakes.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Are they? Atlus Japan has never been huge about pre-order bonuses or LEs. The Persona PSP pre-order bonus soundtrack is one of the exceptions, hardly the rule. The only other exception I can think of is the Odin Sphere artbook bonus in Japan. Atlus USA has an LE or pre-order bonus with pretty much EVERY release. Atlus Japan does not, and nothing they have done historically indicates that Atlus USA picked up the habit from their Japanese parent.

Maybe he meant the Konami Style Edition for the recent games? For P3 and P4 there were one. Extremly pricy for what you would get.... and like most KSE you don't even get a bonus packaging. Everything come separated. But yeah, they started this after Atlus USA.