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[gofreak]

From the article the concept sounds very cool. But where are they getting the power for this advanced A.I.?

I'm not an expert, and can't be sure on this, but I'd suggest that up to a point AI is possibly more dependent on developer skill than compute power. Most AI in games is fairly scripted, which AFAIK isn't particularly compute-intensive, unless you're scaling it to hundreds of individual agents. That's just talking about the decision-making mechanism, though. And of course, a developer may weight their CPU budget more heavily toward AI in one game versus others.

Typical techniques may change toward something more demanding per-agent (e.g. something like influence mapping as in MoH:Airborne might be a bit more processor intensive depending on the number of maps you generate), of course, but that's the impression I get about AI in most games today. I mean the Halo games are often still used as an example of great AI in games (even if FEAR is the benchmark), and they were running on a less powerful CPU than Rev's.

Rev controller doing for consoles what KB+mouse has done on PC for years

Exact same thing accomplished by a light gun used since NES days, how revolutionary

While 3D mice exist, show me a game that actually takes advantage of z-motion. I don't remember ever being able to precisely control how objects moved on both xy and z planes, simultaneously in a PC FPS. Rev basically gives you a prop to represent an object in a game, and maps your interaction with it precisely. You can't do that with a mouse running on a flat surface, or with a lightgun.

 

[B-B-Bomba!]

Three words: Die Hard Vendetta.

Nice thread + well presented, but I think the Revolution infodrought has got you all excited about a truly nothing game.

 

[maxmars]

From the article the concept sounds very cool. But where are they getting the power for this advanced A.I.?

Although they are two very different things, there are quite competent chess AI engines running on modest machines, i.e. 1/10th of the Rev power. Meaning, if they really want, they can pull it off.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Man, I'm as skeptical as the next guy, but some of these comments are either ignorant or too sarcastic for my humble pallate... Whatever the case, there's going to be some crow to be eaten come E3 time.

 

[Luckett_X]

Hey do you remember all that destructable sceneary, truly advanced AI, melee combo's, and fully interactive environment Bungie was talking up before the release of Halo 2?

Oh wait. None of that turned up, it was all hype to generate major interest in a FPS! That....seems somehow relevant to this, first revealed Revolution game, with no video shown but long winded article promising the moon and then some.

Nah, couldn't be. I'm sure its all fact!

 

[SuomiDude]

Hey do you remember all that destructable sceneary, truly advanced AI, melee combo's, and fully interactive environment Bungie was talking up before the release of Halo 2?

Oh wait. None of that turned up, it was all hype to generate major interest in a FPS! That....seems somehow relevant to this, first revealed Revolution game, with no video shown but long winded article promising the moon and then some.

Nah, couldn't be. I'm sure its all fact!

I'm pretty sure the AI and stuff doesn't live up to the hype, but remember that GI actually played the game and saw AI and the gameplay in action. It wasn't in its final form and lots of stuff was missing, but there was already enemies taking cover and moving better (faster and better dexterity) than in many other games. So what I'm saying is that at least there's a good chance to see better AI and physics and stuff thanks to the better gameplay mechanics (better controls require better AI).

 

[Chittagong]

Damn, suddenly I thought I was on IGN boards again, when I saw this thread. You had the exact same thread posted there yesterday (with only few replies)...

:lol

 

[bumpkin]

I'm going to laugh if the other secret about the Rev that we don't know yet is it's more powerful than ATI and developers have been saying it is. I mean think about it... Nintendo won't talk specs, other than saying we'll say "wow." What makes you think that ATI and developers wouldn't be under an NDA about its capabilities? Anyone can make up polygon counts and fill-rates just to shut up nosey press.

That's just my two cents though.

 

[Luckett_X]

Yes. The final secret they are keeping from all third party developers is a dramatic increase in specs. I can certainly see how that benefits everybody involved.

I mean really. By some miracle you people remember to breathe from time to time in between celebrating Iwata/Miayamoto/Nintengod's constant genius decisions and innovative brain patterns :| .

 

[Luscious LeftFoot]

I'm going to laugh if the other secret about the Rev that we don't know yet is it's more powerful than ATI and developers have been saying it is. I mean think about it... Nintendo won't talk specs, other than saying we'll say "wow." What makes you think that ATI and developers wouldn't be under an NDA about its capabilities? Anyone can make up polygon counts and fill-rates just to shut up nosey press.

That's just my two cents though.

It's one thing to not discuss specs. It's another thing entire to talk them down, to the point that developers themselves are saying it's basically a suped up xbox.

:lol @ Luckett_X

 

[TheKingsCrown]

Enemies on a vertical plane = "expanding gameplay possibilities" :lol

Rev controller doing for consoles what KB+mouse has done on PC for years :lol

Red Steel will still be mediocre compared to PC FPS :lol

Exact same thing accomplished by a light gun used since NES days, how revolutionary :lol

:lol:lol:lol

How can you even say such stupid things? I'll just argue one point so my post isn't pointless. The light gun for the NES was worthless. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. I played Gum Shoe which was an awesome game, but the limitations of the light gun made things very frustrating. Thus...

You're an idiot. :lol :lol :lol

 

[Doc Holliday]

Enemies on a vertical plane = "expanding gameplay possibilities" :lol

Rev controller doing for consoles what KB+mouse has done on PC for years :lol

Red Steel will still be mediocre compared to PC FPS :lol

Exact same thing accomplished by a light gun used since NES days, how revolutionary :lol

:lol:lol:lol

Wow :O

 

[Ranger X]

I'm going to laugh if the other secret about the Rev that we don't know yet is it's more powerful than ATI and developers have been saying it is. I mean think about it... Nintendo won't talk specs, other than saying we'll say "wow." What makes you think that ATI and developers wouldn't be under an NDA about its capabilities? Anyone can make up polygon counts and fill-rates just to shut up nosey press.

That's just my two cents though.

Honestly, i doubt that. Don't forget that the main goal of the Rev is to sell cheap. If they put some powerfull hardware in there, they have to crank up the price and this will equal in killing the purpose of the Rev in the first place.
Rev = devellop AND sell for cheap (creates an infinite loop). Revmote and Virtual console are attractions to compensate lack of powerfull hardware and give the console a better value/perception.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

My magazine came yesterday. Interesting write up. Totally looks like an Xbox game, which doesn't bother me but will probably provide fun times to the system warriors.

 

[Rocked]

Enemies on a vertical plane = "expanding gameplay possibilities" :lol

Rev controller doing for consoles what KB+mouse has done on PC for years :lol

Red Steel will still be mediocre compared to PC FPS :lol

Exact same thing accomplished by a light gun used since NES days, how revolutionary :lol

:lol:lol:lol

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

 

[Kiriku]

I'm going to laugh if the other secret about the Rev that we don't know yet is it's more powerful than ATI and developers have been saying it is. I mean think about it... Nintendo won't talk specs, other than saying we'll say "wow." What makes you think that ATI and developers wouldn't be under an NDA about its capabilities? Anyone can make up polygon counts and fill-rates just to shut up nosey press.

That's just my two cents though.

I dunno, if that's the secret it has to be a pretty significant difference from what the general concensus concerning Rev specs is right now, otherwise I think few would care. And it wouldn't really make much sense if the Rev hardware is a lot more advanced than we have been led to believe. Nintendo would have to jack up the pricepoint, which leads to either 1) taking a loss on hardware for no reasonable purpose at all, since I highly doubt it will match 360/PS3 2) selling Rev at a relatively high price, which would only scare newcomers to videogaming away, a segment of the market I assume Nintendo want to attract with Rev.

 

[yoopoo]

I've never seen so many dumb ass posts in such a short thread. I guess the first dumb post rolled out all the other dumb posts.

I'm going to laugh if the other secret about the Rev that we don't know yet is it's more powerful than ATI and developers have been saying it is. I mean think about it... Nintendo won't talk specs, other than saying we'll say "wow." What makes you think that ATI and developers wouldn't be under an NDA about its capabilities? Anyone can make up polygon counts and fill-rates just to shut up nosey press.

That's just my two cents though.

OMG so fucking dumb!

 

[Rushmore]

The thing I like most about these Rev threads is the rampant fear it creates on both sides (although it's mostly from the detractors). Hilarious stuff. Keep it up!

 

[Flo_Evans]

"Thanks to the improved reactioin time that the Revolution controller offers, the Red Steel team can create gunfight scenarios that would be extraordinarily difficult with a standard controller. Most console FPS games limit their enemies to a horizontal plane to prevent player frustration, but targets on a vertical plane are just as easy to hit with the Revolution controller."

umm.. has this dude played an FPS since doom? Every FPS I have ever played since the early days of wolfinstien/doom have had enemies on a vertical plane. An pretty much the whole point of metal gear is not to kill people and get rewarded for it.

I am sure red steel will be great, but these concepts are not exactly new or exciting.

 

[Amir0x]

No.. get an Xbox shooter and juxtapose the screenshots with Red Steel screens. It looks at least "twice as good". It looks better than some 360 ports, which isn't too surprising of course since it's in the nature of ports. My point is, while it of course won't look as good as the top-end 360 games, at this point it would not look out of place on the 360.

I did exactly that. It looks no where near "twice as good" as an Xbox game, whatever arbitrary post mark that is (I imagine it has to do with making sure Perrin Kaplan's PR line isn't proved to be a lie, but it has nothing to do with theoretical power that's for damn sure). I have the magazine, the deficiencies are pretty fucking clear - characters are stunningly low poly compared to next-gen characters in a similar style next-gen game from the same dev (Rainbow Six: Las Vegas), and compared to other Ubi projects of the Xbox gen it's easy to see that Red Steel is not a big improvement at all. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory looks almost as good, except as I said the particle effects and lighting is not necessarily on par. And SC:CT doesn't have problems w/ shadows like Red Steel inexplicably does.

Anyway, this is going to get bogged down to a "graphics are good, no they're not" debate and I want to avoid this... but basically, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[BuzzJive]

you mean worse lighting. lack of proper shaders ftl

You wouldn't know what a shader was if it hit you in your stupid little troll face.

 

[unifin]

umm.. has this dude played an FPS since doom? Every FPS I have ever played since the early days of wolfinstien/doom have had enemies on a vertical plane. An pretty much the whole point of metal gear is not to kill people and get rewarded for it.

I am sure red steel will be great, but these concepts are not exactly new or exciting.

^^^ That was a quote from the GI article.

Of course it's not an entirely original concept... my point was only that it's exciting to finally see console FPS come into their own. I've generally avoided console FPS (except Halo, and a tad bit of Timesplitters) since Perfect Dark simply because I can't go back to a pad after using a KB + M for so long.

The quote is talking about expanding gameplay possibilities on a CONSOLE FPS. While even Agent Under Fire had enemies on ledges and such, the wording of the quote implies that the precision of the controller, like a mouse, allows the dev team to put smarter enemies in harder-to-hit places without making it frustrating to play.

It's not an original concept, no, but it's a neat element to see being worked effectively into a CONSOLE FPS. Not a megaton, obviously, but it's neat to see console FPS finally beginning to hold a candle to their PC bretheren.

 

[Azih]

The Rev is going to be a different take on the genre for sure, but let's not pretend that Console FPS haven't been doing just fine for a long while.

 

[John Harker]

The article made me subscribe to GI again

 

[Mrbob]

So I picked up the mag today, and the game totally looks Xbox. However, the setting does sound cool. This may closest thing I'll get to a Kill Bill videogame, which I've always wanted. I just hope 16:9 mode is mandated, or I'll only be buying a handful of Rev games.

Listening to the IGN podcast at the moment, and he said Red Steel is the biggest exclusive third party game Rev has at the moment, as most other Rev 3rd party games are variation of ports.

 

[John Harker]

Listening to the IGN podcast at the moment, and he said Red Steel is the biggest exclusive third party game Rev has at the moment, as most other Rev 3rd party games are variation of ports.

What does that say for Final Fantasy: CC2? That was suppose to be the first announced 3rd party gam,e "longest in development"....

 

[Mrbob]

What does that say for Final Fantasy: CC2? That was suppose to be the first announced 3rd party gam,e "longest in development"....

I think they were talking about western development.

 

[unifin]

What does that say for Final Fantasy: CC2? That was suppose to be the first announced 3rd party gam,e "longest in development"....

Well, seeing as they announced a DS version also and we've heard nothing about either game since, I think it's safe to assume the game isn't coming near launch at all, and thus wouldn't fall under the timeframe Matt's talking about.

 

[Minotauro]

Maybe this has already been covered but I don't have the time nor energy to go sifting through a 75 page thread...

I'm confused about how the sword control will work. First off, I'd assume that you actually control the sword by swing the controller, right? Now, if that's the case, are you unable to control the free look (like when you're aiming a gun) when the sword is out? Ifso, how do you move and use the sword at the same time. Or, do you just hold down the fire button when you want to swing the sword?

Personally, I think Nintendo should've put a second analog stick on the freehand (or whatever the fuck it's called) controller. That way, you could control the camera in addition to doing some other action in games that require it.

 

[unifin]

Maybe this has already been covered but I don't have the time nor energy to go sifting through a 75 page thread...

I'm confused about how the sword control will work. First off, I'd assume that you actually control the sword by swing the controller, right? Now, if that's the case, are you unable to control the free look (like when you're aiming a gun) when the sword is out? Ifso, how do you move and use the sword at the same time. Or, do you just hold down the fire button when you want to swing the sword?

Personally, I think Nintendo should've put a second analog stick on the freehand (or whatever the fuck it's called) controller. That way, you could control the camera in addition to doing some other action in games that require it.

While swordplay wasn't discussed very much, as they hadn't nailed most of the mechanics at press time, the article did mention things performing combos through gesture-based movements.

It cited tracing a circle in the air or an x in order to perform a more cool-looking combo.

It also specifically stated that flailing around with the controller would get your character cut up by the enemy faster than a gerbil in a food processor.

Another element they emphasized was that they wanted the swordplay to be simple and accessible, so that you don't have to be a master fencer (or learn how to be) in order to succeed.

 

[Krowley]

Maybe this has already been covered but I don't have the time nor energy to go sifting through a 75 page thread...

I'm confused about how the sword control will work. First off, I'd assume that you actually control the sword by swing the controller, right? Now, if that's the case, are you unable to control the free look (like when you're aiming a gun) when the sword is out? Ifso, how do you move and use the sword at the same time. Or, do you just hold down the fire button when you want to swing the sword?

Personally, I think Nintendo should've put a second analog stick on the freehand (or whatever the fuck it's called) controller. That way, you could control the camera in addition to doing some other action in games that require it.

There's a rumor in the giant thread that the nunchuck attachement has a motion sensor in it as well and there are tiny indications that it could be a strong rumor... It may or may not be true but their is no indication that red steele would use it anyway.

 

[Takuan]

How can you even say such stupid things? I'll just argue one point so my post isn't pointless. The light gun for the NES was worthless. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. I played Gum Shoe which was an awesome game, but the limitations of the light gun made things very frustrating. Thus...

You're an idiot. :lol :lol :lol

dunno light gun worked flawlessly with duck hunt must've been something wrong with yours :lol

red steel doa :lol

 

[PhoenixDark]

Enemies on a vertical plane = "expanding gameplay possibilities" :lol

Rev controller doing for consoles what KB+mouse has done on PC for years :lol

Red Steel will still be mediocre compared to PC FPS :lol

Exact same thing accomplished by a light gun used since NES days, how revolutionary :lol

:lol:lol:lol

No Drinky, I am your father:lol

 

[Doc Holliday]

Awww cute someone discovered the LOL emoticon.

 

[Archie]

Drinky actually makes funny posts instead of "nintendo am stupid :lol"

 

[Takuan]

lol nintards lol

hilarious becuz it's on-point :lol :lol :lol