OK you got me. But considering those outfits, this kind of reaction and that he happened to be the only one partnered with another guy in RE 6... I think Capcom wants to tell us something.
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Your favorite LGBT characters in Game
- Thread starter DedValve
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Sabercrusader
Member
I'm going to jump in the camp that's saying Kanji. While I consider him bi personally rather than gay. I consider him the best representation of LGBT characters I've seen in games, even if it's ambiguous as to whether he's even bi or not. It helps that he's my second favorite character in the series behind Akihiko.
Other than that, I can't really think of any other LGBT characters off the top of my head that were memorable other than some of them from Bioware games. I did really like Dorian in DA:I.
Other than that, I can't really think of any other LGBT characters off the top of my head that were memorable other than some of them from Bioware games. I did really like Dorian in DA:I.
avrophantasm
Member
Announcing my support for the IkeSoren army. Some may argue against Ike being queer, but also take note that bisexuals and asexuals are both a part of LGBT+A.
Luv dis jerk.
Raven and Lucius were great, too.
Luv dis jerk.
Raven and Lucius were great, too.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Of course she tricked him. The Lawful ending indicated as such, that he was not happy to have lost his virginity to a trans woman.
Straight Edge
Member
In Batman Arkham Knight one of the Militia Soldiers says "my better half is a human right attorney, he thinks I'm on vacation."
She's the most mature member of her group of friends. She also fits in just fine with them, they all hurl subtle digs at one another, she teases them, they tease her and they all still get along. How the kid reacted to finding out about her is more a reflection on how immature he is then a dig at Erica.
Because she's cool? All of the characters in the game know it, too.
Edited my post
I think it was indicative of the Persona teams (they made Catherine) thoughts on trans when you take into account the trans women in Persona 3.
A very common stereotype/fear of trans women is that we're gay men out to trick straight guys into sleeping with us. The game just runs with that by having her sleep with Toby (or was it spelled Tobi?) without ever telling him and then it's played off as this big joke when he laments losing his virginity to someone that wasn't a "real woman"
Her "friends" actively try to stop her from getting into a relationship. That goes beyond just friendly ribbing.
A Link to the Past
Banned
The writers chose to have her "trick" him into sex. That alone makes her an offensive character, because it's playing on the stereotype of trans people as trying to trick others.
EDIT: Kinsei beat me to it with a much better explanation than I gave.
Maybe im going to get some flak for my opinion, but i think Cortez was ruined for me when i found out you could romance him.
Why? Well for one, i play female Shepard, so when i heard his story and all that i was like "woah! this is amazing, this character had depth and being gay is not his defining trait, he has a story and complexity and happens to be gay, cool!", but then i found out he was a romance option and felt like "lol, never mind, he's just a piece of man candy with a tragic past for male shepard to heal with his magical savior dick."
I think it really took value away from the character that he's just a trophy husband, it's not like Kaidan, who at least you could argue after all the shit that they went thru he developed feelings for Shepard and came to terms with Shepard being the one to spend the rest of his life with (as i see it if you persue romancing him), it feels like Cortez was just added as a trophy.
You know what would have been better? Have Cortez as he is, gay and all, but instead make James Vargas also gay and HIM being the romance option, a party member who is also a romance option feels less like they're putting them there as tokens.
Fair enough, but how is that tricking? Unless I'm mistaken, isn't she post op? It says more about him than about her. What is there to "trick"? I can see you having to be upfront about having a dick, but being operated? And I still got the impression that they would work together, but that might be just my head canon rather than my memory. I definitely remember that he still seemed comfortable around her, even though he said that.
Yup, exactly my thoughts.
I'll have to say it's fair enough, since it's been quite some time since I played it, but I'll definitely replay it soonish, and see if I change my mind.
I should still add, though, that even if you don't think the way they treat her is friendly, that still doesn't deter her from being herself, she's not a comic relief, she's a great character. What other people think of her doesn't define who she is.
Except for Toby, her love interest, who cries and begs to be a virgin again.
Toby would be the exception, because he's depicted as immature and clueless throughout the whole game. Would you seriously expect something different from him?
And that's not even what I'm talking about. Until he gets involved romantically with her, she's who he's in love with. Everyone in the game admires and respects her as a wise and charming person throughout the story. This sex stuff and Toby's reaction is one scene in a sea of many.
That's not what I got out of it at all. Her friends weren't actively trying to keep her from getting into a relationship anymore than they were trying to get Vincent to break up with Katherine, which Vincent gets poked at and laughed at for without even considering Catherine.
What was she supposed to tell him? She's a girl, she thinks of herself as a girl, she wants people to think of her as a girl. Tobi's reaction is just childish, but he is childish and made fun of throughout the entire game for being childish without bringing Erica into it. How he reacts to finding out about Erica is an extension of that.
Completely agree, it was also a shock to me to learn he was a romance option.
But it's Mass Effect, so I didn't really think too much into it. The romance part is a glorified dating sim, haha.
This is also a very good point, Toby is indeed always portrayed as being the most childish of the group, and people make fun of him for that, iirc.
As I said, I can totally see why people wouldn't like her, and I have no issues with people not liking what I like, but "eew" just seems unnecessary.
What?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Are we really policing the tone of trans people who are critical of trans character in this thread?
Whenever Toby shows interest in Erica they always try and shoot him down.
She should have told him about her past before they had sex. Instead they went the stereotypical route.
And now we're assuming that everyone who defends Erica isn't trans.
I happen to know for an absolute fact that isn't true.
Because they know how childish he is.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Or because they know that she's trans and are warding him off.
Open for interpretation. But if you look back and forth between tobi and Erica, only one of those two characters was portrayed with a lot of good qualities. If Atlus was trying to make a negative point with Erica, they could've easily made her into a negative carcicature. But instead Tobi is a negative stereotype. I wonder why that is.... Hmmm....
That's genuinely how it came off to me. They constantly bring up how they need to "warn" Toby and try to set him up with someone else.
I like Erica, and Erica is supposed to be sympathetic and likeable, but that does not make her depiction any less offensive. Here's an idea, how about Toby just goes "oh okay" rather than flipping out?
Nagito Komaeda From DanganRonpa 2
As far as best LGBT characters go, he's pretty much my runner up. (DanganRonpa 2 spoilers follow)
As far as best LGBT characters go, he's pretty much my runner up. (DanganRonpa 2 spoilers follow)
Nagito is... interesting. He forms a strong bond with Hajime from the get go, and after his true nature is revealed, he's still affectionate towards him after that point. There's nothing that initially outright implies that he has feelings for Hajime (barring a few hints interspersed throughout the game). The biggest thing though, is during his final free time event with Hajime in which he attempts to confess his love for him, but ends up chickening out. The official drama CD pretty much makes his feelings towards him explicit as well. The reason why I like him is due to the fact that his sexuality is pretty much incidental to his entire character. His affection for Hajime at no point ever gets in the way of... anything he does. He's still the warped rival that manages to get up to all sorts of mayhem, but he pretty much possesses 0 stereotypical traits of being gay, which is hella awesome.
A Link to the Past
Banned
That's silly. Atlus doesn't "do" like that. Any problematic character they make with respect to LGBT stuff is rarely ever seen as a negative caricature. Either way, they depicted Erika as
the stereotypical deceitful trans girl
Erika is a nice person, but they totally fucked up the depiction.
Nagito Komaeda From DanganRonpa 2
As far as best LGBT characters go, he's pretty much my runner up. (DanganRonpa 2 spoilers follow)
Nagito is... interesting. He forms a strong bond with Hajime from the get go, and after his true nature is revealed, he's still affectionate towards him after that point. There's nothing that initially outright implies that he has feelings for Hajime (barring a few hints interspersed throughout the game). The biggest thing though, is during his final free time event with Hajime in which he attempts to confess his love for him, but ends up chickening out. The official drama CD pretty much makes his feelings towards him explicit as well. The reason why I like him is due to the fact that his sexuality is pretty much incidental to his entire character. His affection for Hajime at no point ever gets in the way of... anything he does. He's still the warped rival that manages to get up to all sorts of mayhem, and he pretty much possesses 0 stereotypical traits.
Depraved gay characters are a negative stereotype in and of themselves. I like him less now that I know he's gay.
These guys from the Shadow Hearts series. They are very funny and when you collect and give them gay cards (pictured) they give you upgrades and new items/clothes. I remember once I was about to go to the final boss and the world is in limbo, as you imagine. They were there and they said something like "where are we? How did we get here?".
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
I didn't want to spoil this until release; but since all the discussion is happening now, what the heck
Gunman Clive
(from the upcoming HD collection)
MEGATON!
Jawmuncher
Member
Chris Redfield for me. Even if it's just fan theories, considering Capcom kind of rolls with it speaks volumes for me.
If they ever officially let him come out, it would be call for celebration in my eyes.
If they ever officially let him come out, it would be call for celebration in my eyes.
That's just so weird to me, I can't see her fault in this, honestly.
Eh, I don't see how this is that relevant to her storyline, personally. People could also never have judged Kanji based on gender stereotypes, and his arc would never happen, would that make for a better discussion on gender roles and heteronormativity?
Not saying this is the same and Toby's reaction was meant to generate discussion, not at all, don't get me wrong. Just that it wouldn't change Erica, only Toby. Just like Kanji being accepted from the start wouldn't change who he always was, just the way people perceive him. The end of his arc doesn't end all prejudice in the world, after all, I'm sure people who judged him before will keep on judging him for quite some time, he just accepted who he is and is giving no fucks anymore. Much like Erica is never shown as depressive or too bothered by the comments that could be taken as offensive, actually. She gives zero craps.
I didn't want to spoil this until release; but since all the discussion is happening now, what the heck
Gunman Clive
(from the upcoming HD collection)
Hahahaha, this is great.
You're off base.
To start, he's considerably mentally ill due to his disease (which pretty much explains all of his affections), but his affection towards Hajime is absolutely pure. Like I said, his "depravity" and "sexual orientation" are not interlinked. He's affectionate towards Hajime because he is the only person who has ever been displayed concern for him outside of maybe... his parents on top of a myriad other reasons? What the main antagonist does to one of the main characters is bigger example of what you're trying to describe.
Because he's an immature brat who has a stereotypical vision of what his "first time" should be like and should be with. People like him exist, en masse. Atlus didn't pretend they don't exist. There are no ideal relationships at all in Catherine, and Erica's was no exception.
I've already explained why I don't think she's
the stereotypical deceitful trans girl
A Link to the Past
Banned
You're missing the point, it's about the depiction. They depicted her transness as a flaw, or as something bad from the perspective of the bar goers, and the game never corrects them. Adding onto that the fact that
they depicted her feelings on taking Toby's virginity as being almost a conquest for her
So
a person who doesn't tell another person about being trans and, when they're upset about it, takes pride in having taken their virginity, doesn't fit into the stereotype of a person who doesn't tell another person about being trans and takes pride in taking cis men's virginity?
So much Catherine discussion..
Wait, doesn't the narrative of that game states that any person engaging in sex that doesn't further procreation should be punished or something like that? So im told anyaways, how can people defend a game with such theme? Someone enlighten me please.
Wait, doesn't the narrative of that game states that any person engaging in sex that doesn't further procreation should be punished or something like that? So im told anyaways, how can people defend a game with such theme? Someone enlighten me please.
It sounds like you'd
prefer her to be a weeping mess after that instead of the type of person who takes everything in stride she's portrayed as. You're also talking about a game where almost all the other characters are cheaters. Take Jon, for example, he's a playboy who picks up women and dumps them periodically knowing he's not interested in them. Isn't that a stereotype as well?
Let me just spell it out for you so you understand my perspective on this: I'm trans.
Not the narrative, the bartender. Also, the bartender picks who's involved in that "ordeal" himself. Ironically, Vincent only qualifies after he's picked.
A Link to the Past
Banned
To be fair,
that message is held by a villain, and is ultimately rebutted by the protagonist.
I already figured you were trans from your earlier comments, but that doesn't really influence my stance on the matter. That said, I'm not particularly interested in this discussion if you're simply going to personally dismiss me because I don't like a character that you like. I've never made a comment on those personality aspects, so I take serious issue with you jumping to that conclusion.
Erica has problems, like the "word of god" never telling that the character teasing her are wrong.
But she STILL is one of the best trans character in games =P
Of course this shows a lot about trans representation in games
But problems for problems I still go with "weird translation problems" Vivian
But she STILL is one of the best trans character in games =P
Of course this shows a lot about trans representation in games
But problems for problems I still go with "weird translation problems" Vivian
So they should pretend the entire world is alright with it and never make a comment? That's not necessarily the only way of making good minority characters, in my opinion.
That's more like the CW way, where they pretend those issues don't exist, some times even making it a bit weird, like vampires who are a thousand years old, and still pretty much live by the same "codes" (or whatever) they had back then, with the same prejudices, the same insane backwards thinking, the same broken logic, hating a child because it was from another father, calling him a bastard, but are all absolutely ok with any kind of minority. None of them are racists, homophobics or sexists, they're all the coolest people in the world, when it's not relevant to their particular story arc.
A character that suffered through racism can still be just as much of a great character as one who never did. Perhaps even able to create a stronger connection for it.
Again, not saying that Atlus are that progressive, that they did it thinking on generating discussion or making a meta commentary on discrimination, no, not at all, far from that. I just think they showed things the way they are in that universe. Not avoiding issues, but also not making any statements about it. Not as good as one could hope, but not particularly awful or offensive.
Oh yeah, that's the point I'm trying to make as well. As I said more than once, I can absolutely see why people would think that way, but some people seem to think that if you don't also see it that way, then you just didn't get it.
My point was that it was open to interpreation, as per my post earlier. Whether or not you like a character I like is completely irrelevant.
Velcro Fly
Member
Vivian, despite whatever censoring NoA wants to push on us
A Link to the Past
Banned
And only one of us is trying to invalidate the other's interpretation. Like it or not, what Erica did IS a stereotype of trans women, and considering Atlus' often clumsy attempts at representing LGBT people, I see them being clumsy as being the most logical interpretation.
Umm, I only brought that up when you posted this:
Which does the very thing you're accusing me of doing.
A Link to the Past
Banned
That post wasn't directed at you.
I'll raise you one:
This is seriously canon to me already. I'll be surprised if they don't make it explicit in the sequel.
Or rather, if they disprove it. If they never mention it again, then it's also within the realms of expectation, I guess.
I know the chances are highly unlikely, but:
Considering how Capcom has never officially teased anything with Chun-Li and Ryu, and how Cammy is the only character she has shown concern/affection towards, I think they would make a great canon couple.
Also, in hindsight, Would cammy count for trans? She's a clone of M. Bison (unless they retconned it while i wasn't looking), how do you classify such character in science fiction? Same for Rose, she is also technically Bison. And Seth. And Abel i think. Plenty of people is Bison in SF.