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Youtube bans all anti-vaxx content.

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gioGAF

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I get what you are saying, but there is no way to do what you are proposing without creating second class citizens. I prefer that everyone be treated equally. Some will excel and others will not, based on their own merits.

I stand by what I said. There is no such thing as misinformation. There are just degrees of intelligence within the population. I am not willing to take away the liberty of those deemed to be less intelligent. You want to believe the Earth is flat? I don't care. You think the vaccine will make your balls fall off? I don't care. Those decisions should be on you.
 

Coolwhhip

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Fat cunts aren’t currently ramming hospitals to breaking point, or preventing people from leaving their homes.

Anti-vaxxers are doing both.

End of the ‘obesity is like being anti-vax’ argument.

My point is that Google is hypocritical. When it makes them money they gladly tell you you can be super in shape while shoving burgers in your face through ads, but then on this topic it's different somehow.
 

Ailynn

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Aren't we ourselves well equipped enough to deal with whatever information?

WE certainly are, but as the past several years have proven...there are a surprizing amount of people out there who are easily misled, and then are so intent on spreading misinformation themselves that they are willing to alienate themselves from their loved ones and greater society as a whole in their quest to spread "the truth."

It's become scary out there, and sadly...much of it seems manufactured.
 

DeepEnigma

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Fat cunts aren’t currently ramming hospitals to breaking point
Yes they are. Visit any cardio ward or ICU due to congenital heart failures. They are always at max capacity and COVID worsened it with almost 80% or more being obese and having such complications due to their predetermined state. ICUs are also always run at a specific capacity for kickbacks. The less people, they remove beds to keep a certain % threshold. The more people, they add them. This has always been their modus operandi.
 
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Nobody_Important

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I think the widespread acceptance of lying and deception in ads really set us up for this misinfocalypse we are living through, it became too trivial and commonplace to spin everything
And I agree. But comparing an ad for a Big Mac to a video of someone pushing lies about a safe vaccine is not the same thing. Both may be self interested and dishonest, but they are nowhere near the same level.

Everyone knows that fast food is bad for you no matter how they try to dress it up on screen, but not everyone knows that what is being pushed in these anti-vax videos is bullshit. And it's that naivety and then the subsequent spreading of that misinformation that causes a cascade of stupidity.



You don't get that from a McDonald's ad or for a Bud Light Seltzer commercial.
 

kingkaiser

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700,000 people in the US alone died due to Covid. There is a very effective prevention in form of multiple vaccines out there, but let's focus on smear campaigns against this cure, let's also remember people die everyday due to multiple forms of different diseases, because this is completely unrelated to an ongoing pandemic, yet it serves quite well the narrative of misinformation.
 
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Lupingosei

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Fat cunts aren’t currently ramming hospitals to breaking point, or preventing people from leaving their homes.

Anti-vaxxers are doing both.

End of the ‘obesity is like being anti-vax’ argument.
No, that is exactly where you are wrong.


The US may have suffered the highest coronavirus death toll in the world because almost 70 per cent of its adult population is overweight, according to a major report.

Research by the World Obesity Federation found Covid deaths have been 10 times higher in countries where over half of adults are overweight, and they have accounted for a staggering 90 per cent of global deaths.

. They found that people with obesity who contracted SARS-CoV-2 were 113% more likely than people of healthy weight to land in the hospital, 74% more likely to be admitted to an ICU, and 48% more likely to die.
 

22:22

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WE certainly are, but as the past several years have proven...there are a surprizing amount of people out there who are easily misled, and then are so intent on spreading misinformation themselves that they are willing to alienate themselves from their loved ones and greater society as a whole in their quest to spread "the truth."

It's become scary out there, and sadly...much of it seems manufactured.

Yes the symptoms of our society

Maybe have a construct in place that doesn't leave room for bullshit because we're Informed ... instead of letting stupid be stupid and inforce even more censor and such so most of us are reaching in the dark


💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗

My english 😰
 
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Nobody_Important

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How does this make any sense? Eating too much and promoting fatness or drinking too much and promoting alcohol is not the same thing as a disease.
See now you are just being dishonest. Those ads promote food and drink. Not "fatness" and alcoholism. They are trying to convince you to try their product. Not to overindulge and kill yourself.


Do people do that? Of course they do and the companies know that, but people were fat and drinking themselves into oblivion long before YouTube ads were a thing. So trying to compare an ad for a burger or an ad for a beer to some grifter pushing harmful anti-vax nonsense is ridiculous. They are on two completely different levels.
 
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Lupingosei

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You see, this IS MISINFORMATION IN AND OF ITSELF.

It is NOT a CURE!
Maybe they don't know that you can still get covid even when vaccinated and even infect others with it.

There was this huge article in the NYT about how little people actually knew about corona and for example, overestimated how many people had to go to the ICU. Maybe they really believe the vaccine is a cure.
 

DeepEnigma

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Maybe they don't know that you can still get covid even when vaccinated and even infect others with it.

There was this huge article in the NYT about how little people actually knew about corona and for example, overestimated how many people had to go to the ICU. Maybe they really believe the vaccine is a cure.
Sure hope Google / YT can stay on top of that misinformation. :pie_eyeroll:

They won't.
 
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Lupingosei

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See now you are just being dishonest. Those ads promote food and drink. Not "fatness" and alcoholism. They are trying to convince you to try their product. Not to overindulge and kill yourself.


Do people do that? Of course they do and the companies know that, but people were fat and drinking themselves into oblivion long before YouTube ads were a thing. So trying to compare an ad for a burger or an ad for a beer to some grifter pushing harmful anti-vax nonsense is ridiculous. They are on two completely different levels.
Have you seen the Cosmopolitan cover about how this is healthy which I have posted. Please explain to me, how this is exactly different from anti-vax or fat acceptance on youtube is different?
 
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dr_octagon

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James Dyson strikes again
Cleaning Vacuuming GIF by The BarkPost
 

Nobody_Important

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Yep. So if good guy Google is so concerned about the health of the people, time to ban those fast food and Ben and Jerry's ads too.
They won't because the two things aren't the same.


Well mostly they won't because money, but also because the two things are completely different.
 

EviLore

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I get what you are saying, but there is no way to do what you are proposing without creating second class citizens. I prefer that everyone be treated equally. Some will excel and others will not, based on their own merits.

I stand by what I said. There is no such thing as misinformation. There are just degrees of intelligence within the population. I am not willing to take away the liberty of those deemed to be less intelligent. You want to believe the Earth is flat? I don't care. You think the vaccine will make your balls fall off? I don't care. Those decisions should be on you.
Second-class citizens have already been created: the deliberately unvaccinated patients filling ICUs to capacity and dying by the hundreds of thousands.
 

Coolwhhip

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They won't because the two things aren't the same.


Well mostly they won't because money, but also because the two things are completely different.

I don't think they are completely different. Anti vax videos spread misinformation but ads for junk food and alcohol too. Both lead to deaths.

I mean, it's a good thing they ban anti vax videos after giving it some more thought. Based on the science we currently know it will save your life. Let's hope Google wont ban videos about people saying there are only 2 genders in the future though.
 

gioGAF

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Second-class citizens have already been created: the deliberately unvaccinated patients filling ICUs to capacity and dying by the hundreds of thousands.
In that case, why would you be interested in saving them?
 

Herr Edgy

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WE certainly are, but as the past several years have proven...there are a surprizing amount of people out there who are easily misled, and then are so intent on spreading misinformation themselves that they are willing to alienate themselves from their loved ones and greater society as a whole in their quest to spread "the truth."

It's become scary out there, and sadly...much of it seems manufactured.
By banning misinformation, will those same people gain awareness of their stupidity?

They will simply swap out their fake messiah for another fake messiah.

The important aspect is _why_ you believe what you believe, not _that_ you believe something that is labeled as "the correct thing to think". Believing something correct for the wrong reasons means you aren't believing in the right thing, you just happened upon it. Next time, you might be wrong.

I see the same kind of spread of misinformation by those arguing for the vaccine, for example.
The narrative of "you aren't vaccinated, you kill people" has led people to get the vaccine for the sake of others, and believing that the primary purpose of the vaccine is, against all logic, that a vaccine primarily protects others and not yourself.
Stats in Israel and the UK show quite well how the vaccine does not protect you from getting and transmitting covid. It "merely" reduces strength of symptoms and leads to a speedier recovery. It makes sense. A vaccine isn't a force field around your body, making it impossible for the virus to exist within you. Your body just gets better at eradicating it.

A small thought experiment: which person is more dangerous to their communities:
a) The unvaccinated, lockdown-measure-following person that shies away from going out with their friends, doesn't attend parties, wears their mask even when not required, disinfects their hands regularly and avoid touching surfaces that people frequently touch, or
b) The vaccinated person that believes they are safe, for both themselves and others around them, partying every second weekend, meeting up with people regularly ("we are all vaccinated, no problem"), choosing not to wear the mask when not required, and not having second thoughts about touching public doorknobs?

(For clarity's sake, I'm well aware that anti vaxxers aren't the people described under a)

I'm pretty sure the answer isn't as one-sided as some vaccinated people that buy into the narrative will have you believe. The vaccinated will have a lower chance of transmitting it by virtue of their bodies being better at fighting it, but does that make up for the difference in behavior between a and b? Who knows. The point is that this is something a lot of those "GET VACCINATED OR YOU ARE A MURDERER" people have never considered. And when we put these people in charge, even if they happen to be correct in that the vaccine is safe and does help, their reasons for believing so are not founded in anything tangible, reasonable, scientific. They just subscribe to their fake god they call science. They have no idea of science, however.

That is the problem with all of it...
 
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I don't think they are completely different. Anti vax videos spread misinformation but ads for junk food and alcohol too. Both lead to deaths.

I mean, it's a good thing they ban anti vax videos after giving it some more thought. Based on the science we currently know it will save your life. Let's hope Google wont ban videos about people saying there are only 2 genders in the future though.

Eh, I kinda get what you're going for but it isn't a very good comparison. If the ads for junk food and alcohol were making claims that they provide all the nutrition you need for the day, or to stop eating fruits and vegetables because they'll kill you or something like that then the comparison may be like for like. That sounds like misinformation being spread.
 
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Lupingosei

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Second-class citizens have already been created: the deliberately unvaccinated patients filling ICUs to capacity and dying by the hundreds of thousands.
That is that slippery slope again. Again I provided numbers, that so many more people in the US die because of covid is not because of the unvaccinated, but because of obesity. Other countries do not have higher vaccination quotas but still way less death per capita than the US.
 

Herr Edgy

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Eh, I kinda get what you're going for but it isn't a very good comparison. If the ads for junk food and alcohol were making claims that they provide all the nutrition you need for the day, or to stop eating fruits and vegetables because they'll kill you or something like that then the comparison may be like for like. That sounds like misinformation being spread.
Let's not act like there is no correlation between US fast food culture (including media/ads) and US people being obese. Ads don't need to tell you "this is healthy" to contribute to obesity.
 

Coolwhhip

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Eh, I kinda get what you're going for but it isn't a very good comparison. If the ads for junk food and alcohol were making claims that they provide all the nutrition you need for the day, or to stop eating fruits and vegetables because they'll kill you or something like that then the comparison may be like for like. That sounds like misinformation being spread.

Yeah I know, but they heavily imply and try their absolute hardest to make it look like fit, healthy people eat their junk while having the time of their life. Which is of course nonsense.

Anyway, now I'm curious if you can post a YouTube video saying that smoking is good for you.
 
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Nobody_Important

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I don't think they are completely different. Anti vax videos spread misinformation but ads for junk food and alcohol too. Both lead to deaths.

I mean, it's a good thing they ban anti vax videos after giving it some more thought. Based on the science we currently know it will save your life. Let's hope Google wont ban videos about people saying there are only 2 genders in the future though.
I've already explained this in an above post. The difference is that people already know that fast food is unhealthy and they already know that alcohol is bad when you drink too much or for too long. People know that, but eat/drink it anyway.


But a person may not know that the video they are watching is pushing harmful nonsense that could either put them or someone close to them in the hospital. We had people eating fucking horse paste and poisoning themselves because people on Facebook told them to for fuck sake. The level of dangerous stupidity that these videos have created is absolutely insane and the misinformation that they are pushing is actively adding to the level of human suffering and economic hardship. People are literally dying because of this crap.



These kind of videos have no place on any self respecting platform and comparing them to fast food ads is just ridiculous.
 
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gioGAF

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That is that slippery slope again. Again I provided numbers, that so many more people in the US die because of covid is not because of the unvaccinated, but because of obesity. Other countries do not have higher vaccination quotas but still way less death per capita than the US.
This is actually a good point. By EviLore's logic, people who are obese should receive the same treatment as the unvaccinated. They should be forced to do what is good for them.
 
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just_some_nut

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WE certainly are, but as the past several years have proven...there are a surprizing amount of people out there who are easily misled, and then are so intent on spreading misinformation themselves that they are willing to alienate themselves from their loved ones and greater society as a whole in their quest to spread "the truth."

It's become scary out there, and sadly...much of it seems manufactured.
Are they "willing to alienate themselves" or are they being alienated? Who's pulling the trigger, and for what?
 

Hulk_Smash

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It's not a "narrative". It's a fact. Hospitals have been getting swamped for months. There is a new article every week about this hospital or that hospital reaching capacity and/or having very few ICU beds.
And you just accept the reports?

How about:

1. Why just ICU beds? Are those bedrooms being purposefully kept small in number? Why aren’t regular beds being used? Is EVERY COVID patient in critical condition? Right now in my state there are 3,800 hospitalized Covid patients. Are all of them in need of ICU beds?

2. What happened to all those converted rooms/wings/ mobile COVID hospitals? We are in such dyer need of beds we decided to end the special wings for COVID patients that were open no more than a few months ago?

3. How about being short staffed because of forced vaccinations amount hospital staff. That might not have anything to do with the added length of the list of extra patients, would it?

4. Why are some treatments being politicized? Shouldn’t that be up to the doctor and their patients? Especially if treatments are with drugs already approved by the FDA. If we could use all tools in our tool belt (we aren’t) then would there even be full hospitals. This question and the next one are especially critical in getting me to believe the “beds are full” narrative.

5. The numbers from the delta variant are already going down and it wasn’t nearly as bad as it was last winter. The next wave will be even less deadly and the next and the next. There’s no reason for people to stay i the state of alarm that we had in March of 2020. You cannot continue to live like that without doing serious damage to the nation.
 

DeepEnigma

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Second-class citizens have already been created: the deliberately unvaccinated patients filling ICUs to capacity and dying by the hundreds of thousands.
You know what gets scary about this thought process? Black communities are of the lowest vaccination rates, due to their lack of trust in the "system." For reasons I can sympathize with from Tuskegee Syphilis experiments that lasted decades. Once we start going down the "second class" route, it will get even worse with racial divide taken into account, and the ability for businesses and the like to enact prejudice hidden behind the "show me your papers, citizen."

I don't normally agree with BLM, but they were dead right of where this could potentially lead when they protested that restaurant and vaxx mandates in NYC.
 
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Nobody_Important

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And you just accept the reports?

How about:

1. Why just ICU beds? Are those bedrooms being purposefully kept small in number? Why aren’t regular beds being used? Is EVERY COVID patient in critical condition? Right now in my state there are 3,800 hospitalized Covid patients. Are all of them in need of ICU beds?
I stopped reading there.


I don't even know where to start lol
 
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Rentahamster

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Yes, free speech is generally preferable to censorship. The United States is not a country where anything goes, but we are pretty liberal in letting things slide. There is a sliding scale, and we have laws on our books that codify that spectrum. Is disseminating anti-vax propaganda just as dangerous as yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater (yes I am aware of the difference between public vs private, but we're talking about the spirit of the free speech not the letter of the law)?

Letting the anti-vax propaganda spread on social media has contributed to the USA's vaccination rate to be less than required for effective herd immunity, which is partly or perhaps mostly to blame for our very high death rates compared to nearly all other countries with a higher vaccination rate. We currently have over 600,000 people dead from this virus, with almost half of that occurring after the vaccines were freely available.

If you disagree with this move, what are your reasons?

1. A world where anti-vax propaganda is banned from Youtube will have the unexpected effect of more deaths occurring. As in, if we banned anti-vax content from the start, we'd have a higher death toll now.
2. Anti-vax content on Youtube might result in more deaths and harm, but it's such a radical blow to free speech that any deaths or harm caused by it are acceptable casualties.
3. Anti-vax content on Youtube is actually not as harmful as yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater, and should not be

If you believe #1, what is the mechanism where more people end up dead in a world with anti-vax censorship on Youtube?

If you believe #2, what is the number of dead that is acceptable? If you truly believe that censoring any anti-vax propaganda is beyond the pale, or crossing the line, does that mean that any amount of deaths related to censoring this or other dangerous propaganda in the future are justified in the name of free speech?

If you believe #3, please explain why.
 

YCoCg

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stand by what I said. There is no such thing as misinformation
When people say this I often ask them to imagine themselves being a part of the misinformation. What if one day someone kept calling you a pedophile, and over time more and more of their audience believed it and also started calling you a pedophile, and then when you sue for defamation of character these people spread that it must've been true as you're now trying to silence and censor people from saying you're a pedophile. That's how misinformation is right now.
 
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Yeah I know, but they heavily imply and try their absolute hardest to make it look like fit, healthy people eat their junk while having the time of their life. Which is of course nonsense.

Anyway, now I'm curious if you can post a YouTube video saying that smoking is good for you.

Hmm, this could be an interesting experiment on the (in)consistencies of the new YouTube policy. People just start posting blatantly obvious misinformation and see what is and isn't allowed ha
 
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DeepEnigma

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I stopped reading there.
That's tends to be a problem in current public discourse.
Hmm, this could be an interesting experiment on the (in)consistencies of the new YouTube policy. People just start posting blatantly obvious misinformation and see what is and isn't allowed ha
I can bet right now it will go by perceived political affiliation first and foremost.
 
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Nobody_Important

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That's usually the problem in current public discourse.
It's not my fault that he doesn't seem to have any idea how the ICU situation is affecting hospitals or even how ICUs work yet somehow seems to be supremely confident that the problem doesn't exist despite this fact.


If I had come at you with that kind of argument you would have laughed yourself into a coma.
 
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DeepEnigma

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It's not my fault that he doesn't seem to have any idea how the ICU situation is affecting hospitals or even how ICUs work yet somehow seems to be supremely confident that the problem doesn't exist despite this fact.


If I had come at you with that kind of argument you would have laughed yourself into a coma.
It wasn't just for you, but in general with a lot of us. Should have been more clear.

But yes, I get what you are saying.
 

EviLore

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You know what gets scary about this thought process? Black communities are of the lowest vaccination rates, due to their lack of trust in the "system." For reasons I can sympathize with from Tuskegee Syphilis experiments that lasted decades. Once we start going down the "second class" route, it will get even worse with racial divide taken into account, and the ability for businesses and the like to enact prejudice hidden behind the "show me your papers, citizen."

I don't normally agree with BLM, but they were dead right of where this could potentially lead when they protested that restaurant and vaxx mandates in NYC.
"[BLM] were dead right" -DeepEnigma 2021
 

NoLootBoxDev

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If this were the standard by which all social media platforms and media outlets were held to I'd be fine with it but it's not which is where the issue is. "Some" disinformation is okay when the people in charge of said platform deem it to be is a slippery slope that is gonna lead to a terrible place.
I agree, but we are talking about anti-vax people here, not the way China wants to control things in their country.

""Some" disinformation is okay when the people in charge of said platform deem it to be is a slippery slope that is gonna lead to a terrible place."

We are talking about people, who believe:

1)This is the mark of the beast
2)Taking horse paste is fine
3)Smell chlorine is good too
4)Refuse vaccines for their children is a great idea
5)All governments want to kill everyone who got vaccinated (leaving only those who are too poor or refuse the vaccine) With the irony they want to keep the people who do not listen to the government but will kill those who do.
6) And a lot more I know I am missing...
 

AzullAbaddon

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My main concern is what Google will consider "Anti-Vax"

Without them stating in very clear and specific terms A B C etc. this will be abused.
 
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funkygunther

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My main concern is what Google will consider "Anti-Vax"

Without them stating in very clear and specific terms A B C etc. this will be abused.

 
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poppabk

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Cool, looking forward to Google banning all fast food and booze ads.
Those ads are regulated though. They can't claim that a Big Mac is 100 calories and one a day will help you lose weight, there is no Smirnoff non-addictive vodka ad using data from a disputed study from some Polish doctor.
We do already force cigarette companies to finance anti-smoking ads and basically banned them from advertising due to them lying in ads and manipulating or hiding data in the past. It's no accident that Juul and the like started pushing their products through social media influencers.

Join me on the watchlist and try searching YouTube for 'how to make a pipebomb' you will notice a distinct lack of discussion and 'for education purposes only' videos on this topic.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

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I agree, but we are talking about anti-vax people here, not the way China wants to control things in their country.

""Some" disinformation is okay when the people in charge of said platform deem it to be is a slippery slope that is gonna lead to a terrible place."

We are talking about people, who believe:

1)This is the mark of the beast
2)Taking horse paste is fine
3)Smell chlorine is good too
4)Refuse vaccines for their children is a great idea
5)All governments want to kill everyone who got vaccinated (leaving only those who are too poor or refuse the vaccine) With the irony they want to keep the people who do not listen to the government but will kill those who do.
6) And a lot more I know I am missing...

Anti Vax is a broad, vague term that authoritarians use to silence a huge swath of people.
 
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