Support NeoGAF

[Zoramon089]

Spin attack= clockwise spin of the control stick+b

Forward spinning slash is completely useless, but if it had to be included in the next Zelda, it could be mapped to counterclockwise spin of the control stick+b

Everything but basic swordplay/pointer controls should be mapped to a button/control stick.

Lol, so intuitive. Yup a counterclockwise spin + random button makes so much more sense! And we all know how easy it is to do 360 motions in fighting games!

Am I the only one who sees the irony in people years ago calling out those who wanted motion controls shoe-horned in, now doing the same with buttons? I seriously can't be the only one who sees this!

Red Steel's shooting was IR. Dunno about its menus (don't remember) but I'd assume it would use IR as well. Its swordplay was entirely M+ gyro-based, of course.

Are we sure about that? Because it doesn't spaz out when you aim off screen (outside of seeing the sensor bar) so I assumed it either switched to gyro's at that moment or it was all gyro...

 

[BGBW]

Right? Skyward Sword Link is a wimp. Hero of Time Link is spinning in his grave.

I thought they dipped him in concrete and stood him on a podium in the middle of Hyrule Castle.

 

[Anth0ny]

Lol, so intuitive. Yup a counterclockwise spin + random button makes so much more sense! And we all know how easy it is to do 360 motions in fighting games!

uh

it's been like that in every Zelda until Skyward Sword. And it's easy as shit. I could do 500 consecutive quick spins without fail.

and, as I said, the forward spin attack is completely useless. I think the only times I used it in SS was accidentally, when I was trying to get a spin attack or forward thrust out. If I wanted to hit enemies behind me, I'd spin attack. If I wanted to hit my opponent from above, I'd use the jump attack...

 

[Zoramon089]

uh

it's been like that in every Zelda until Skyward Sword. And it's easy as shit. I could do 500 consecutive quick spins without fail.

and, as I said, the forward spin attack is completely useless. I think the only times I used it in SS was accidentally, when I was trying to get a spin attack or forward thrust out. If I wanted to hit enemies behind me, I'd spin attack. If I wanted to hit my opponent from above, I'd use the jump attack...

Yeah but it's still a move that can't be emulated in a way that makes as much sense. You can't just brush it off because you personally don't use it or the same logic could be used for gamepad games that the wiimote can't mimic well


I repeat, using a gamepad for a game clearly designed for motion controls is as dumb as doing the reverse. No amount of arguing or "well, you could use blah blah" will change that.

 

[Somnid]

uh

it's been like that in every Zelda until Skyward Sword. And it's easy as shit. I could do 500 consecutive quick spins without fail.

You being awesome doesn't discount the unintuitiveness of it. There people who are crazy at fighting games and I'm like nuh-uh, fuck that. I can pull off a spin fairly consistently in older Zeldas, but in SS, well, I don't even have to make a statement about it.

 

[Anth0ny]

I repeat, using a gamepad for a game clearly designed for motion controls is as dumb as doing the reverse. No amount of arguing or "well, you could use blah blah" will change that.

Who's arguing that? All I'm saying is, in the next Zelda, if they go with traditional controls, they could map that forward spin attack to counterclockwise 360 + b.

 

[BGBW]

Who's arguing that? All I'm saying is, in the next Zelda, if they go with traditional controls, they could map that forward spin attack to counterclockwise 360 + b.

Wouldn't that be really annoying when you want to do a horizontal spin and you accidentally turn the stick the wrong way?

 

[Professor Beef]

Wouldn't that be really annoying when you want to do a horizontal spin and you accidentally turn the stick the wrong way?

My memory isn't so bad that I would forget something like that, though.

 

[PataHikari]

They're not. That's a fact. .

They are. It's a fact.

 

[Anth0ny]

Wouldn't that be really annoying when you want to do a horizontal spin and you accidentally turn the stick the wrong way?

I'll take it over "I'm clearly fucking stabbing forward and a stupid forward spin attack comes out instead of a forward thrust" any day. Ultimately, you made the mistake of putting in the wrong input when it comes to button controls. With motion controls, there are instances where the console just reads your input wrong. Motion control technology isn't perfected yet.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I'll take it over "I'm clearly fucking stabbing forward and a stupid forward spin attack comes out instead of a forward thrust" any day. Ultimately, you made the mistake of putting in the wrong input when it comes to button controls. With motion controls, there are instances where the console just reads your input wrong. Motion control technology isn't perfected yet.

Uhhh... why would you be swinging the nunchuk forward to do a thrust?

You have to use both the mote and chuk to do a spin attack.

I really don't understand this. The only "iffy" motion I came across was bomb rolling. Any other motion worked when I did it.

I really don't know how you can trigger a spin attack unless you moved both the mote and chuk.

 

[Levyne]

I loved the sword combat, but the stab is probably the worst implemented action. So many times I wanted to stab the damn spiders but instead I side swing it and it flails into me.

A few pages back mentioned the stab/forward thrust might be somewhat context sensitive.

 

[AzaK]

After looking at Skyward Swords' initial sales numbers, I highly doubt that the statement in the op will still stand when they get around to promoting the next game. They're saying that motion swords are the future because they want people to care about Skyward Sword, but if it really underperforms in the end, there's no reason to continue with them for the next game.

Aside from that, they'll want to push forward the Wii U's own new features with the next game, so trying to champion motion would just make no sense. What they're saying right now is only because, in the present, it's motion and Skyward Sword that matter, not a Zelda that hasn't even been properly announced. One year or two years from now, they certainly won't keep that stance.

If it under-performs, it won't be to do with motion controls. It will be to do with the fact that people have moved to HD and high end visuals or are tired of the Zelda formula.

Motion controls can help with acessibility, but only when we're talking about simple actions that could become fairly boring in a standard controller. When you get something as complex as Zelda, motion actually makes things less accessible. Teaching a "movement" is much harder than telling someone to press a button. I'm pretty sure Nintendo recognized that during SS's development, that's why the game has so much hand holding in some points, to make up for the obstacles created by the complex motion controls and help with the game's acessibility.

Yes teaching a movement is much harder and invloves more input from the user than a button but man is it so much more boring.

Sure, there are things in SS that need fixing/removing like the tightrope walking but I think the controls were damned revolutionary. I am also going to repeat this again for about the 10th time - partly due to the Giant Bombcast podcast I heard this morning where (Vinny?) was complaining about the controls going out of whack.

The misalignments and recalibration issues people have are almost entirely due to Nintendo taking the wrong approach to centreing during menus/aiming, and the user not understanding this is how it works. Once you understand it, recalibration is required much less often and when it's needed you simple just hit d-pad-down.

 

[Zoramon089]

I'll take it over "I'm clearly fucking stabbing forward and a stupid forward spin attack comes out instead of a forward thrust" any day. Ultimately, you made the mistake of putting in the wrong input when it comes to button controls. With motion controls, there are instances where the console just reads your input wrong. Motion control technology isn't perfected yet.

A forward slash is only made if you move the nunchuk in the same forward manner. Like pressing the wrong buttons it's YOUR fault not the games. The motions to perform both are distinct enough that if the nunchuk was strapped down and you couldn't move it you would NEVER perform the forward spin slash

You'd have a point if it accidentally performed a directional slash instead but doing the forward spin slash is your user error

 

[BGBW]

My memory isn't so bad that I would forget something like that, though.

When you're caught in the middle of a group of enemies it's much easier to just spin the stick without having to worry about direction.

 

[Professor Beef]

When you're caught in the middle of a group of enemies it's much easier to just spin the stick without having to worry about direction.

Easier, probably. But it's more efficient to remember the correct rotation and apply it.

 

[Pyrrhus]

I hope they reconsider. Honestly, the series has been wrong in one way or another ever since Aonuma took the reins. Why would they give the Zelda series to a guy who hated the original game anyway?

 

[BGBW]

I hope they reconsider. Honestly, the series has been wrong in one way or another ever since Aonuma took the reins. Why would they give the Zelda series to a guy who hated the original game anyway?

Because they liked his work on the OoT dungeons?
Also he was responsible for the opening of SS with Groose which was awesome. Awesome beyond belief.

 

[[Nintex]]

I hope they reconsider. Honestly, the series has been wrong in one way or another ever since Aonuma took the reins. Why would they give the Zelda series to a guy who hated the original game anyway?

I don't think the problem is Aonuma but Miyamoto... or Aonuma, Fuijbayashi and Miyamoto. Too many captains are controlling the ship. They all want their toys in and if it wasn't for Eguchi and friends calling out Aonuma for not using the Motion Plus we wouldn't have seen that in SS either.

 

[watershed]

Sounds good, I loved the controls in SS for the most part, but I wonder how they will mix motion controls with the upad, if at all.

Also what does Aonuma's "not wanting to go back to buttons" mean for Zelda on the 3ds? The ds entries were almost all touch controlled, I don't want to see that again. I hope they take from OoT and use buttons+touch+gyro.

 

[RagnarokX]

I miss the old spin attack anyway.

It's not fun in SS because it doesn't power up. It just makes you fucking get out of breath because Link is a fat disgusting nerd.

You miss the charging spin attack? Why? It's super slow. Ever since OoT you could just by spin the stick and pressing B to do it instantly. SS makes it slightly easier to perform, so they had to keep it from being abused somehow.

 

[Anth0ny]

A forward slash is only made if you move the nunchuk in the same forward manner. Like pressing the wrong buttons it's YOUR fault not the games. The motions to perform both are distinct enough that if the nunchuk was strapped down and you couldn't move it you would NEVER perform the forward spin slash

You'd have a point if it accidentally performed a directional slash instead but doing the forward spin slash is your user error

Except I'm doing the god damn forward thrust motion and getting it to come out maybe 50% of the time. I'm well aware that moving the nunchuk makes you get a forward slash... I'm really not. Holding that shit as still as possible. In certain battles that require you to stab in order to attack the enemy, I'll get 2 stabs out, and the third a slash. It's ridiculous.

Clearly my nunchuk must be too sensitive or something. But I know this wouldn't be a problem with button controls, or less convoluted motion controls.

You miss the charging spin attack? Why? It's super slow. Ever since OoT you could just by spin the stick and pressing B to do it instantly. SS makes it slightly easier to perform, so they had to keep it from being abused somehow.

Charging meant the huge, orange spin attack. Quick spins only resulted in the small, blue spin attack.

 

[Professor Beef]

Charging meant the huge, orange spin attack. Quick spins only resulted in the small, blue spin attack.

The small instant one was godlike against Darknuts in TP. So dumb how the Wii version gave it a cooldown.

 

[butter_stick]

You miss the charging spin attack? Why? It's super slow. Ever since OoT you could just by spin the stick and pressing B to do it instantly. SS makes it slightly easier to perform, so they had to keep it from being abused somehow.

Dat huge orange light

 

[Yagharek]

The only way to satisfy all is to include the option of motion and customizable button controls.
Personally I would always choose motion controls now after skyward sword.

 

[Kapura]

I didn't mind the controls in Twilight Princess, but I fucking can't stand them in Skyward. They are doing their damnedest to ruin the game for me. *fuck* the swimming sections.

 

[RagnarokX]

Charging meant the huge, orange spin attack. Quick spins only resulted in the small, blue spin attack.

No, it did a big blue one. The orange one just wasted magic and time... and was only in one game.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

I hope they reconsider. Honestly, the series has been wrong in one way or another ever since Aonuma took the reins. Why would they give the Zelda series to a guy who hated the original game anyway?

my opinion about your opinion is that your opinion is wrong

 

[TheCongressman1]

my opinion about your opinion is that your opinion is wrong

My opinion about your opinion of his opinion is that your opinion is wrong. I'm actually not sure what you guys are talking about... But, I saw something about Aonuma, so...

Miyamoto for director '12! Spread the good word!

 

[PKrockin]

People are really having trouble with the tightrope walking controls? How?

 

[Luigiv]

People are really having trouble with the tightrope walking controls? How?

I assume they don't realise you're suppose to hold the Wiimote vertically. I only knew that because someone else mentioned it in the demo thread.

 

[MisterHero]

People are really having trouble with the tightrope walking controls? How?

Resetting the Wiimote after you get up from losing balance is kinda weird. Also, your balance is at risk when you use the Jostle move.

The motion sensing is, well, sensitive.

This only happened to me once, but the 'resetting' problem was actually me not realizing that left and right tilts had somehow became inverted.

 

[Himself]

I didn't mind the controls in Twilight Princess, but I fucking can't stand them in Skyward. They are doing their damnedest to ruin the game for me. *fuck* the swimming sections.

I didn't even make it to any swimming sections before the controls ruined it for me and I put it on ebay.

 

[Anth0ny]

People are really having trouble with the tightrope walking controls? How?

The game doesn't really explain it to you properly.

Which is hilarious because they explain everything else in excruciating detail at least 2 times.

But it's really easy once you get the hang of it.