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[IrrelevantNotch]

In another thread just now I was trying to convince a fellow gaffer that Square Enix and Nintendo are not in comparable situations as far as industry standing/success this gen. That went nowhere.

And I was just about to try to convince you that Zelda 64 did indeed change the industry, specifically in 3d world design but its honestly not worth it. But I will say this, do you remember the game dark cloud? It ended up being released on the ps2 and was billed all through development as the zelda killer. This was long before Wind Waker so they were referring to Zelda 64. An entire generation later Level 5 and Sony were still trying to outdo what Zelda 64 was able to accomplish. Just food for thought.

3d world design, are you serious? Zelda 64's overworld was inspired by the same thing as every other game at the time - technical limitations. The only lasting impact Zelda 64 has had on the market is its lock on combat invention.

And regarding Dark Cloud, do remember if it was the developer's who compared it to Zelda, or magazine editors? Because everytime I see something like "Zelda killer" its always coming out of the mouth of some over excited videogame editor.

 

[Ebenezer]

In another thread just now I was trying to convince a fellow gaffer that Square Enix and Nintendo are not in comparable situations as far as industry standing/success this gen. That went nowhere.

And I was just about to try to convince you that Zelda 64 did indeed change the industry, specifically in 3d world design but its honestly not worth it. But I will say this, do you remember the game dark cloud? It ended up being released on the ps2 and was billed all through development as the zelda killer. This was long before Wind Waker so they were referring to Zelda 64. An entire generation later Level 5 and Sony were still trying to outdo what Zelda 64 was able to accomplish. Just food for thought.

Hai thar

I'd have to agree that the real innovation that came from Zelda was the Z targeting mechanism. It was praised as a well polished and well made 3D adventure with broad appeal, but other games have been praised, Z targeting was OoTs only real substantial contribution to gaming.

 

[watershed]

Hai thar

I'd have to agree that the real innovation that came from Zelda was the Z targeting mechanism. It was praised as a well polished and well made 3D adventure with broad appeal, but other games have been praised, Z targeting was OoTs only real substantial contribution to gaming.

Notice how polite I was to call you a "fellow gaffer" instead of a ___ junior or something insulting. But this is just too much, its like I have to deal with insanity from 2 directions instead of just one

But back OT I think the motion controls look great and will enhance the traditional Zelda experience. Unfortunately there will always be those who feel they are "tacked on".

 

[Hero]

3d world design, are you serious? Zelda 64's overworld was inspired by the same thing as every other game at the time - technical limitations. The only lasting impact Zelda 64 has had on the market is its lock on combat invention.

And regarding Dark Cloud, do remember if it was the developer's who compared it to Zelda, or magazine editors? Because everytime I see something like "Zelda killer" its always coming out of the mouth of some over excited videogame editor.

A 3D world does not equate to overworld. You are missing the point entirely but I guess that's to be expected from someone who can make such baseless accusations. Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time are the two foundations for games in three dimensions.

 

[Ydahs]

I couldv'e sworn we've heard this news before...

 

[polyh3dron]

I disagree. This looks to be the first use of motion controls that isn't tacked on.. it literally allows more gameplay possibilities than without.

It's a shame it's coming so late in the Wii's life.

 

[J-Rock]

Hai thar

I'd have to agree that the real innovation that came from Zelda was the Z targeting mechanism. It was praised as a well polished and well made 3D adventure with broad appeal, but other games have been praised, Z targeting was OoTs only real substantial contribution to gaming.

I lol'd.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

Hai thar

I'd have to agree that the real innovation that came from Zelda was the Z targeting mechanism. It was praised as a well polished and well made 3D adventure with broad appeal, but other games have been praised, Z targeting was OoTs only real substantial contribution to gaming.

 

[NeonZ]

That is where you lost me. No, those games are largely not fun and are indeed bad games. They, along with their DS brethren, are why the series is no longer placed on a pedestal. I am not going into the reasons because it has been listed repeatedly on GAF, but those games are simply not fun.

Unlike the Mario series, the Zelda series sold more as a 3d game series than as a series of 2d titles. So, the majority doesn't share your opinion.

Aside from that, yes, Zelda has moved alway from its completely non linear roots, but the series has been progressing in that direction ever since the beginning anyway. OoT was more linear then aLttP which was more linear than LoZ. That's not to say that recent Zelda games don't have problems (especially the introductory sections) but trying to say that the series hasn't worked for years and has become irrelevant is just wrong, considering how the 3d Zelda games have been better received by gamers in general than the 2d ones.

 

[Chao]

You scared the shit out of me with that topic title for a second.

 

[IrishNinja]

yeah, totally excited about the wiimote bundle, and really, this game looks gre

*reads thread*

....

my god. i usually bitch in zelda threads about timeline talk, but this is so, so much worse.

 

[Prime Blue]

What did Aonuma do with it that displeases you?

Didn't you get the memo? If you want to be a member of the Nintendo Cool Club, you have to praise:

• Takashi Tezuka
• Yoshiaki Koizumi
• Mahito Yokota

Everything else will get you laughter and taunts!

He didn't direct or co-direct OOT.

Eiji Aonuma was one of two game system directors, designed six of the dungeons, worked on the battle system, and conceived enemies and bosses.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Eiji Aonuma was one of two game system directors, designed six of the dungeons, worked on the battle system, and conceived enemies and bosses.

I've tried to track the progress of all those Ocarina and Majora's Mask dungeon designers. Those guys are like THE geniuses.

But I will never understand any Aonuma hate. I like his early work as a director. And respect his work now as a producer.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

Zelda tennis will be te best

 

[Mael]

Dear god, the suggestion that people have for shoehorning DA onto Zelda are obsolutely horrendous.
Basically it'd play worse than Too Human for the sake of not soiling your hands with the dirty, dirty wiimote that's for peasant, right?

 

[RPGCrazied]

Does this come with Skyward Sword in the form of a separate bundle? or have we not had the details yet?

edit: sorry, it's been asked a few times already.

I want this too! Though, couldn't they have made the buttons and D-pad gold too? At least make it see-thru like the A-button.

 

[depths20XX]

I hate how everytime you see someone playing this game it looks like Link runs around holding his sword way out in front of him like a retard.

 

[[Nintex]]

I hate how everytime you see someone playing this game it looks like Link runs around holding his sword way out in front of him like a retard.

That says more about the Player than link, because the controls are pretty much 1:1

 

[Alexios]

And I'm pretty sure you can sheathe the sword.

 

[Angry Fork]

I honestly think Skyward is going to be a critical disaster (compared to other Zelda's). It just oozes that feeling, something feels wrong with the development of this game, like they never knew what to do.

 

[Alexios]

I honestly think Skyward is going to be a critical disaster (compared to other Zelda's). It just oozes that feeling, something feels wrong with the development of this game, like they never knew what to do.

Lolwut? Like they never be4 have stated the weird changes their games go through, which usually end up for the better? Not that a lack of motion controls would have affected the world, dungeon and story design all that much, even if it had lasted long. Which it didn't. And so far all the impressions about the controls are positive anyway.

 

[Mael]

I honestly think Skyward is going to be a critical disaster (compared to other Zelda's). It just oozes that feeling, something feels wrong with the development of this game, like they never knew what to do.

Who gives a shit.jpg?
they loved Wind's Waker and that WAS a disaster.
Heck critics are pretty much irrelevant when speaking of Wii games anyway.

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

I honestly think Skyward is going to be a critical disaster (compared to other Zelda's). It just oozes that feeling, something feels wrong with the development of this game, like they never knew what to do.

I somehow get the complete opposite feeling.
For me it's a Zelda game which will be worth the wait. Especially after the last E3 trailer.

 

[wrowa]

I honestly think Skyward is going to be a critical disaster (compared to other Zelda's). It just oozes that feeling, something feels wrong with the development of this game, like they never knew what to do.

Every gameplay detail about this game actually sound really great and the concept finally is a small departure from the OoT formula.

If the game gets critically panned, it's just because some of those "game journalists" are too stupid and lazy to move.

 

[KrawlMan]

I honestly think Skyward is going to be a critical disaster (compared to other Zelda's). It just oozes that feeling, something feels wrong with the development of this game, like they never knew what to do.

I'm not getting that feeling at all, and I certainly hope you are wrong. To me the game looks like it screams polish. The Wii could not have a better swansong.

Edit: Also, on another note, I would be thrilled if the next game (Wii U) was an advancement of the SS visual style. So good.

 

[FGMPR]

I honestly think Skyward is going to be a critical disaster (compared to other Zelda's). It just oozes that feeling, something feels wrong with the development of this game, like they never knew what to do.

You probably could have said something similar about OoT's development after being forced onto the 64 from the DD.

 

[Krev]

I honestly think Skyward is going to be a critical disaster (compared to other Zelda's). It just oozes that feeling, something feels wrong with the development of this game, like they never knew what to do.

You haven't been keeping up with this game, have you?

 

[depths20XX]

That says more about the Player than link, because the controls are pretty much 1:1

I've seen videos where they are just holding it like any normal person would hold the Wiimote and Link is running around like he's trying to poke someone with it. So I dunno.

 

[Krev]

I've seen videos where they are just holding it like any normal person would hold the Wiimote and Link is running around like he's trying to poke someone with it. So I dunno.

That's because they're holding the remote out in front of them.
If you want to hold the remote that way and Link's pose bothers you, just sheath the sword.

 

[MYE]

I honestly think Skyward is going to be a critical disaster (compared to other Zelda's). It just oozes that feeling, something feels wrong with the development of this game, like they never knew what to do.

What?
lol
I'm pretty sure you're alone there

 

[Angry Fork]

By 'disaster' I meant mid 7s/low 8s rather than top-teir AAA scores (which are the usual for a Zelda game). Not sure how fan response will be though.

 

[Mael]

By 'disaster' I meant mid 7s/low 8s rather than top-teir AAA scores (which are the usual for a Zelda game). Not sure how fan response will be though.

And again 'whogivesashit'.com, they didn't go that low for Other M, so it won't for that game either.

 

[Prime Blue]

I love how every dissenter has eight people who quote them.

 

[TheBanditKing]

I disagree. This looks to be the first use of motion controls that isn't tacked on.. it literally allows more gameplay possibilities than without.

Yeah but I still wish it was optional. I am not a big motion control fan, when I game I like to sit back and relax. Its a big reason why my game collection for Wii is so limited, because I don't want to stand up or wave my arms all over the place to play a game, especially Zelda. Its a shame for me too because this looks to be the best one (imo) since Wind Waker (which I loved)

 

[Mael]

Yeah but I still wish it was optional. I am not a big motion control fan, when I game I like to sit back and relax. Its a big reason why my game collection for Wii is so limited, because I don't want to stand up or wave my arms all over the place to play a game, especially Zelda. Its a shame for me too because this looks to be the best one (imo) since Wind Waker (which I loved)

You played Red Steel 2 or NMH up and not in your couch?

 

[ksamedi]

Yeah but I still wish it was optional. I am not a big motion control fan, when I game I like to sit back and relax. Its a big reason why my game collection for Wii is so limited, because I don't want to stand up or wave my arms all over the place to play a game, especially Zelda. Its a shame for me too because this looks to be the best one (imo) since Wind Waker (which I loved)

The would have to completely redesign the game to make something like that optional. You will be able to play this with wrist movements just fine.

 

[TheBanditKing]

You played Red Steel 2 or NMH up and not in your couch?

I did not play them at all. I actually never got around to NMH (likely going buy it for PS3 since it has a controller option and the EU demo I played seemed fun) but red steel I skipped for the same reason I am having trouble convincing my self to buy this, just looks too motion heavy for my tastes.

The would have to completely redesign the game to make something like that optional. You will be able to play this with wrist movements just fine.

I hope so because Zelda is my favorite Nintendo series and I have never skipped one (well except spirit tracks, ugh stylus controls) and I really like the look of this game. Seems like the perfect marriage of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess .

 

[Meier]

I wish they had. I fucking hate motion controls... I really hope a standard control option is available for this too.

 

[PooBone]

Shame they didn't scrap it.

That's what I thought.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Aonuma really needs to go do something else.

 

[WillyFive]

It's great they put it back in. It would be a shame to lose all that functionality and depth just because of a bad hunch about motion controls.

I wish they had. I fucking hate motion controls... I really hope a standard control option is available for this too.

Impossible, the game is built from the ground up with Motion+. SS' Combat in particular would be impossible with buttons.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I did not play them at all. I actually never got around to NMH (likely going buy it for PS3 since it has a controller option and the EU demo I played seemed fun) but red steel I skipped for the same reason I am having trouble convincing my self to buy this, just looks too motion heavy for my tastes.

Just to clear things up..

Have you ever played a motion control game?

 

[The Lamp]

It doesn't work like that. The game is designed around motion controls.

Considering they dropped the controllable camera in Zelda, you could just map the sword and tilt controls to the CStick/second analog stick.

 

[plank]

I wish they had. I fucking hate motion controls... I really hope a standard control option is available for this too.

not a chance.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I can see people hating motion controls in the same way I hate dual-analog FPSes. They just don't fucking work.

But if they're my only option, I still suck it up and use them.

 

[Orayn]

I love how every dissenter has eight people who quote them.

It turns out people don't always agree and disagree with each other in equal numbers. Funny how that works, eh?

 

[TheBanditKing]

Just to clear things up..

Have you ever played a motion control game?

Fair question, though I think on this your definition of "motion game" may differ from mine. To me a motion game is a title that has any gameplay mechanic handled by having to move the wii mote. Thus for me Mario Galaxy is a motion game, I have also played a few PS3 games with move (in a store naturally) like Killzone and Sport Champions.

 

[Alexios]

You couldn't sit back and relax with Galaxy?

Or with playing FPS games with the wiimote/move?

The former has a shake or two, the latter require less motions than even a mouse might.

Weird, to say the least.

Try and expand your horizons a little, games can be fun even if they don't allow you to play them while in a coma. Mimicking swordfighting can be fun when the mechanics are implemented even half decently (as in Red Steel 2) while pointing to aim and shoot doesn't stop you from chillaxing in your couch as you do with any other game.

 

[Metroid Killer]

Thus for me Mario Galaxy is a motion game

You honestly didn't play Mario Galaxy standing up did you?

 

[generaldane]

Its great they didn't change, as this is a Zelda i would be anticipating nonetheless but the motion plus is now one of the major things to make me want this game if you babies can't accept the fact that this game is build around then don't play it simple as that, we won't miss you.