I originally expected the eruption late in the game to cause the Mogmas to move underground (and perhaps be the catastrophic event that would have eventually got people to rename it Death Mountain), and the Gorons to enstablish there.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Zelda Skyward Sword Spoiler Thread: Retelling the Legend without the black bars
- Thread starter Laughing Banana
- Start date
So apparently the Goddess created the Master Sword in response to the Demon Sword (what I'm calling Demise's weapon) and made an artificial being (Fi) to inhabit it like Ghirahim was inhabiting the Demon Sword.
I think there will be a prequel to SS, with the goddess's chosen hero, the forging of the goddess sword by the sages (whose symbols actually appear in SS), and the sealing of Demise and the transformation of Ghirahim.
I think there will be a prequel to SS, with the goddess's chosen hero, the forging of the goddess sword by the sages (whose symbols actually appear in SS), and the sealing of Demise and the transformation of Ghirahim.
Professor Beef
Banned
Didn't they already say that SS was already a prequel? You want a prequel to a prequel?
rollingstart
Banned
Speaking of references to old Zelda games, Crunched pointed out an awesome thing in the OT.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
HOLY FUCK AT THE TREE!
But what am I supposed to be seeing with the robots? Is there something apart from looking kind of like Midna's hat?
Man, we really need to compile an extensive by-the-game list of references and place it right in the OP.
But what am I supposed to be seeing with the robots? Is there something apart from looking kind of like Midna's hat?
Man, we really need to compile an extensive by-the-game list of references and place it right in the OP.
EmCeeGramr
Member
I wonder how many people noticed the intro was painted onto the walls of the Sealed Grounds.
Zomba13
Member
I noticed that when you first go there. It was a really nice touch.
I also think we need a big list of references/connections. That tree thing blew my mind.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Also I'm not quite clear on how much Hylia knew beforehand when she planned everything out. When Zelda said that she knew that being in harm's way would motivate Link to become a hero, does that mean that, on a subconscious level at least, she knew beforehand that their little post-ceremony flight would result in her being put in danger and Link seeing it? Does it mean that Hylia planned on being incarnated as the chosen hero's "friend" so he would have a personal reason to help?
rollingstart
Banned
I just realized the paradox of having a Hylian shield before a Hyrule. Those dragons are keepin secrets!
I'll wait a bit before doing the hero mode. I don't think it will be much of a problem. I mean, I got through that 8-boss rush without losing a heart. Is it just enemies do more damage or do their attacks change up?
I'll wait a bit before doing the hero mode. I don't think it will be much of a problem. I mean, I got through that 8-boss rush without losing a heart. Is it just enemies do more damage or do their attacks change up?
EmCeeGramr
Member
They do double damage, hearts don't drop*, heart flowers don't appear*, your treasures/bugs carry over, and your Skyward Strike starts out as the super-fast version from the end of the game.
*Unless you're carrying a heart medal
So basically, the only ways to heal are: Potions, fairies, sitting spots, Skyloft beds, and Heart Pieces and Containers.
rollingstart
Banned
what about upgrades or any equipment? would I still have my shields and larger quiver and stuff?
the healing thing isn't bad. I had three bottled fairies the entire game and never need them. The only potion I drank was the stamina++ potion to see that the effect would be (hoping it would increase my stamina permanently), and only because I needed room for water. as a whole the game is pretty easy, but the combat is still fun. Enemies are like micro puzzles.
EmCeeGramr
Member
The upgrades and pouch items themselves don't carry over, but you can still buy/find them.
With the collectibles/bugs carrying over, that means you can actually upgrade stuff way earlier than you could before. If I hadn't been A Stupid and stocked up on tumbleweeds before starting Hero Mode, I could have had the Big Bug Net and Braced Shield before even starting the 1st dungeon. I already have the Scattershot.
BTW what's your favorite part in the game? For me it's the epilogue. Specifically when you land on land Lavias' head until the "the end" shows up on the screen. All the cutscenes were wonderful, sky keep was one of the best dungeons in Zelda history, the last silent realm was unexpected and completely awesome, the boss fights were outstanding, and of course the triforce.
That really was the height of the game for me. The second, I think it was the search for the second flame, amazing concepts were shooting out left and right during that segment.
That really was the height of the game for me. The second, I think it was the search for the second flame, amazing concepts were shooting out left and right during that segment.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
<post deleted>
mdtauk
Member
Allthough it was not said outright, like I had hoped, we now know the origin of the name Hyrule - Hylia's Rule.
Speaking of Hylia, I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO happy the word has returned to the series' backstory, but never did I expect the Hylia people to be descended from a Goddess turned mortal! I like to believe the 3 Goddesses created Hylia to watch over the world they had created, and the Triforce.
The 3 Dragons seem like they could have become the Light spirits, but Ordona is left unexplained.
The guardians of the silent realm trials, remind me of the sages from Twilight Princess, which could be the spirit of the sages, before they are awakened.
The Colosseum in the Gerudo Desert, could be the site of the Hyrule crest in Skyward Sword.
The Temple of Time and Hyrule Castle from OoT and WW, could be built on the site of the Sealed Grounds Temple in Skyward Sword. Rumours that the Triforce was once held there, have been proven true, before it was placed into the sacred realm.
And lots more speculation and theory...
Speaking of Hylia, I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO happy the word has returned to the series' backstory, but never did I expect the Hylia people to be descended from a Goddess turned mortal! I like to believe the 3 Goddesses created Hylia to watch over the world they had created, and the Triforce.
The 3 Dragons seem like they could have become the Light spirits, but Ordona is left unexplained.
The guardians of the silent realm trials, remind me of the sages from Twilight Princess, which could be the spirit of the sages, before they are awakened.
The Colosseum in the Gerudo Desert, could be the site of the Hyrule crest in Skyward Sword.
The Temple of Time and Hyrule Castle from OoT and WW, could be built on the site of the Sealed Grounds Temple in Skyward Sword. Rumours that the Triforce was once held there, have been proven true, before it was placed into the sacred realm.
And lots more speculation and theory...
EmCeeGramr
Member
Allthough it was not said outright, like I had hoped, we now know the origin of the name Hyrule - Hylia's Rule.
Speaking of Hylia, I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO happy the word has returned to the series' backstory, but never did I expect the Hylia people to be descended from a Goddess turned mortal! I like to believe the 3 Goddesses created Hylia to watch over the world they had created, and the Triforce.
The 3 Dragons seem like they could have become the Light spirits, but Ordona is left unexplained.
The guardians of the silent realm trials, remind me of the sages from Twilight Princess, which could be the spirit of the sages, before they are awakened.
The Colosseum in the Gerudo Desert, could be the site of the Hyrule crest in Skyward Sword.
The Temple of Time and Hyrule Castle from OoT and WW, could be built on the site of the Sealed Grounds Temple in Skyward Sword. Rumours that the Triforce was once held there, have been proven true, before it was placed into the sacred realm.
And lots more speculation and theory...
Why did that just happen.
Arc07
Member
Anyone else think that the Triforce wasn't "real" since Link's spirit obtained it? I had a theory ready in my head until I saw the physical Triforce being placed on the statue of the Goddess in Skyloft.
Also is there a list of all the dowsing targets you get? I have three blank spots but I'll assume the north one is for main quest objective. The west one is for side quest objective. What's the northwest one for?
Also is there a list of all the dowsing targets you get? I have three blank spots but I'll assume the north one is for main quest objective. The west one is for side quest objective. What's the northwest one for?
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
That's what I thought too....then I remembered Wind Waker has the Triforce fetch quest.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Okay now I just remembered IGN saying stuff like "there's no romance in this game, Zelda and Link are just friends," and people complaining that The Song of the Hero was "just some random generic song!!"
Not gonna lie, when the three dragons started singing, and the song turned out to be the Main Zelda theme, I kind of shit bricks. When I first heard that the song was the "Song of the Hero", I had thought that it was going to be the Zelda theme. However, when the individual dragons sang their part, it didn't sound like it, so I was disappointed. In the end, Nintendo came through.
I know it's silly, but I felt like, "OH MAN I JUST INVENTED THE ZELDA THEME".
I know it's silly, but I felt like, "OH MAN I JUST INVENTED THE ZELDA THEME".
rollingstart
Banned
well, there is no romance in this game. Link ain't faithful.
new theory:
Link started Hyrule with Zelda. Then on the other side of the planet, he created Hyrule with Item Check Girl, renamed as Zelda.
Some games take place in Hyrule "1" and others in Hyrule "B"
Twilight Princess Wii and Gamecube are different events, each occurring simultaneously on opposite sides of the planet. It explains the terrain difference; Link's handedness is like flushing a toilet.
This would allow them to add Hyrule "2" and Hyrule "A" as well in another sequel.
To be honest, I'm a little disappointed in Skyward's story. For being an origin story it leaves too many questions open.
People say that Skyward's Link and Zelda founded Hyrule, but how do you explain the Sealed Temple and the Temple of Time then? There obviously have been people living on the earth already at some point. Also, if Skyward's Link and Zelda founded the royal family because the bird and the triforce become the symbols of Hyrule's royality -- then why was exactly that symbol already present in Skyward's Temple of Time? (Not to mention the Hylian shield, even though I'd be able to put that aside as an easter-egg) It really bugged me that apparently there happened quite a bunch of stuff before Skyward. It's like the origin story gave enough place for yet another origin story :/
Demise was also build-up rather badly, I think. Yeah, he probably is the root of evil; he might be an earlier stages of Ganondorf or maybe of all Zelda villains in general, but he felt like he was just thrown into the game. I would have wished for a little more backstory... Saying that, I belong to the group who wished for Groose becoming Ganondorf. He's an awesome character, and especially because of that he would have made an awesome villain -- it would have been really easy too. Demise in it's imprisoned form could have devoured him to use his body and soul as a container. While doing so he could have channeled Groose's negative feelings -- his unreturned love for Zelda for example. He would have had really great motives for being the bad guy, and he was sympathic enough to make it a sad experience for the player.
The triforce part didn't resonate well with me either. It should have been something incredibly amazing -- after all, some hardcore Zelda fans waited for the opportunity to lay hands on the triforce since Ocarina of Time and it's portrayed in the series as the most amazing thing ever everyone's after --, but... yeah, what is it doing in Skyward? Link "owns" the whole of it, and all it does is changing the place of the Goddesses statue. It should have made Link incredibly strong or something, instead it was like "yeah, there's that too". I was also disappointed that it wasn't split at the end of the game. It was established throughout the series that no one can or should own all of it and... yeah, here it was apparently owned by Link and by Link alone.
Establishing a new goddess was great, it also puts the other games of the franchise into a new perspective, Skyward Sword is also a cool backstory for the Master Sword, but other than that it felt a little short, I think. This bugs me more than it should -- this is Zelda after all, but I was rather disappointed that after having a great beginning, the story went into mute mode for nearly the rest of the game.
I agree with the sentiment that Ghiranim was a rather weak villain, btw. I loved his concept and his personality, but he appears not nearly as often as he should. He isn't doing anything evil either. The whole story suffers a bit from the lack of a feeling of threat. Impa (or was it Zelda?) tells you that a war is taking place, but it never feels like it at all. "Hyrule" never felt as peaceful, actually.
Apart from the flooded woods (such a great concept, such a terrible execution) I adored every second of the game's gameplay, though.
People say that Skyward's Link and Zelda founded Hyrule, but how do you explain the Sealed Temple and the Temple of Time then? There obviously have been people living on the earth already at some point. Also, if Skyward's Link and Zelda founded the royal family because the bird and the triforce become the symbols of Hyrule's royality -- then why was exactly that symbol already present in Skyward's Temple of Time? (Not to mention the Hylian shield, even though I'd be able to put that aside as an easter-egg) It really bugged me that apparently there happened quite a bunch of stuff before Skyward. It's like the origin story gave enough place for yet another origin story :/
Demise was also build-up rather badly, I think. Yeah, he probably is the root of evil; he might be an earlier stages of Ganondorf or maybe of all Zelda villains in general, but he felt like he was just thrown into the game. I would have wished for a little more backstory... Saying that, I belong to the group who wished for Groose becoming Ganondorf. He's an awesome character, and especially because of that he would have made an awesome villain -- it would have been really easy too. Demise in it's imprisoned form could have devoured him to use his body and soul as a container. While doing so he could have channeled Groose's negative feelings -- his unreturned love for Zelda for example. He would have had really great motives for being the bad guy, and he was sympathic enough to make it a sad experience for the player.
The triforce part didn't resonate well with me either. It should have been something incredibly amazing -- after all, some hardcore Zelda fans waited for the opportunity to lay hands on the triforce since Ocarina of Time and it's portrayed in the series as the most amazing thing ever everyone's after --, but... yeah, what is it doing in Skyward? Link "owns" the whole of it, and all it does is changing the place of the Goddesses statue. It should have made Link incredibly strong or something, instead it was like "yeah, there's that too". I was also disappointed that it wasn't split at the end of the game. It was established throughout the series that no one can or should own all of it and... yeah, here it was apparently owned by Link and by Link alone.
Establishing a new goddess was great, it also puts the other games of the franchise into a new perspective, Skyward Sword is also a cool backstory for the Master Sword, but other than that it felt a little short, I think. This bugs me more than it should -- this is Zelda after all, but I was rather disappointed that after having a great beginning, the story went into mute mode for nearly the rest of the game.
I agree with the sentiment that Ghiranim was a rather weak villain, btw. I loved his concept and his personality, but he appears not nearly as often as he should. He isn't doing anything evil either. The whole story suffers a bit from the lack of a feeling of threat. Impa (or was it Zelda?) tells you that a war is taking place, but it never feels like it at all. "Hyrule" never felt as peaceful, actually.
Apart from the flooded woods (such a great concept, such a terrible execution) I adored every second of the game's gameplay, though.
Yeah, that really was one of the most amazing scenes of the game.Lunar15 said:
rollingstart
Banned
>>>>> lame figure skating
Yet he appears more than most villains do in the Zelda series. The majority of Zelda villains appear close to the beginning, then around the middle, then the end. Ghirahim appears at the end or right after the end of every dungeon accept for the fifth. You can tell he's evil based on his personality but when it comes to evil acts he does do some or at least tries at points. He grabbed zelda from the Sky with a tornado, He seems to love screwing with link and trying to kill him, He fights and probably would've killed Impa at the temple of time if Link didn't save the day, and he attacks the water dragon. Really though his only goal is to revive his master so he's not really trying to go all across the land doing evil acts. He just want's to revive his master and he succeeds.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
>>>>> lame figure skating
I lol'd pretty hard at this. The figure skating was neat...at first, I was so disappointed they reused it so many times.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Oh God no. Groose's transformation from bully into genuinely good person is great, and ruining it with dumb fanservice crap would have been awful.
In other news, Hero Mode Girahim just killed me twice in a row.
Having a villain with a motive instead of having a bland villain that is being thrown in during the last minutes is far from being "dumb fanservice crap".
EmCeeGramr
Member
You fought Demise throughout the game and they constantly talked about him. That's better than "and then Groose's character arc is ruined for cheesy fanboy purposes."
The way Demise was handled here is how Ganon should've been handled in TP I think. In fact Demise is the first character you actually see in the game. With all the nightmares and fights with his imprisoned form I think you really get a sense of what you're fighting against.
rollingstart
Banned
When Demise was praising humans, I did think he was about to possess Groose.
I think the only way Demise possessing Groose could have worked is if Groose resisted. Have him beg Link to be stabbed in the face or some form of self-sacrifice.
he wouldn't turn into Ganondorf or whatever, but like how all Links and Zeldas look alike, simply inhabiting Groose's body curses people...with...red...hair...thishitisdumb
I think the only way Demise possessing Groose could have worked is if Groose resisted. Have him beg Link to be stabbed in the face or some form of self-sacrifice.
he wouldn't turn into Ganondorf or whatever, but like how all Links and Zeldas look alike, simply inhabiting Groose's body curses people...with...red...hair...thishitisdumb
mdtauk
Member
Having Demise be the source of all evil, is a great idea. All those who rise from the malice and "spirit" of Demise, are destined to seek out the Triforce, and to be defeated by the Master Sword. We now know the reason its called "The Blade of Evil's Bane".
And in terms of the timeline, we can trace the Master Sword's growth/evolution.
nckillthegrimace
Member
Yes. It's a very specific reference to this or at least the Buddhist parable it was based on.
I deleted my save to start Hero Mode, and I'm beginning to regret it even though I did every extra thing in the game other than getting all of the Goddess Cubes. Weird, huh?
Anyway, this is probably just the immediate high one gets from beating a game talking, but I think it's replaced Link's Awakening as my favorite Zelda. Before the game came out, there were several things that came up in reviews that I thought I would hate, namely the lack of exploration and the supposed filler. If linearity is what it takes to keep the game interesting for 35 hours, then, hell, I guess I'm in, but I've never been one of those neo-retro romanticists who want to go back to a barren, confusing world with an old man in a cave. The only thing I'd really consider filler in the worst sense of the word is that boring as shit part with the Tadnotes or whatever the hell they're called. That should not have been in the game. Every other instance of what I've seen called filler didn't bother me at all. I really enjoyed every sequence where you return to a previously visited location but then something interesting happens, like when all of your weapons get stolen or you do a Silent Realm trial. The cynic in me sees this as an easy way to reuse assets, but I was constantly entertained so I can't complain.
Of course, I'm a person who values the dungeons and the intricate puzzles they entail above all else in Zelda games, so my positive reaction is probably to be expected. That said, I'd like to see even more sidequests in the next game. I feel like Nintendo didn't really go deep enough with that as I would have liked, and the same goes for the crafting system. Of course, that would necessitate a quest log. I thought that was a stupid complaint in the Giant Bomb review, but it turns out I was totally wrong. Additionally, they should have included options to: 1. Speed up the text. 2. Skip tutorials on "Zelda staples." 3. Get rid of the reoccuring text prompts for crafting materials. 4. Stop Fi from reiterating everything that happens. More populated sky islands would have been nice, too.
This post is quickly becoming my bullshit IGN "graphics, gameplay, sound" template review, so I'll just say that the were all very nice, thank you. Motion controls worked flawlessly for me, which is something I think no human being ever thought they would say. Combat in particular is much improved, and I'm completely disappointed that Nintendo will probably leverage the tablet in the WiiU Zelda instead of the MotionPlus. I think there's still a lot of potential to be explored for both combat and puzzles.
So yeah, I think Skyward Sword is pretty awesome.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
That would've been awesome!
I was actually worried they'd do something stupid like have Groose become the bad guy, and I was so relieved when it didn't happen.
Honestly, I think Groose served a vital role that is underplayed in the series. It's no coincidence that he joins the "team" at the end. I feel like in this game we have a "pure" metaphor for the three virtues of the Triforce. Zelda is Wisdom, Link is Courage, and Groose is Power, but not in an evil sense. I don't think it was supposed to be a strong message, but a nice wink that I think worked very well.
Honestly, I think Groose served a vital role that is underplayed in the series. It's no coincidence that he joins the "team" at the end. I feel like in this game we have a "pure" metaphor for the three virtues of the Triforce. Zelda is Wisdom, Link is Courage, and Groose is Power, but not in an evil sense. I don't think it was supposed to be a strong message, but a nice wink that I think worked very well.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
Link's a lot more powerful than Groose, also Link doesn't have to summon any courage being a mute avatar. If anything I think Groose should represent courage as he shows cowardly tendencies from time to time that would actually require some courage to overcome.
Fair enough. Perhaps I was just making it up in my mind, but the fact that Groose intimidates people and makes giant weapons that shoot rocks shows more power than courage. But I get what you're saying. I dunno, I just like the "team of 3" motif they were pulling off there at the end.
Also, this might be a bit of a stretch, but I feel like breaking the chandelier and then working it off was somewhat of a reference to the shopkeeper in Link's Awakening. Something about doing something bad and getting called out for it.
OH! And the mother of Rupin, the Shopkeeper, she was a clear reference to TWW's Greedy old dude who makes you pay for the stuff you break in his house.
nckillthegrimace
Member
I think that would have ruined Groose's character arc and retroactively destroyed Ganondorf's. Making Ganondorf into Groose is like some Kojima-level retcon bullshit. No, it's worse. It's like George Lucas explaining Darth Vader and Boba Fett with the Star Wars prequels. In this proposed version of events, instead of being the wicked man from the desert who grew weary because he's the only constant in an unending cycle of legend, he would be a guy who felt bad because a girl didn't like him enough and then a magic bad man ate him.
Hey Ganondorf, why did you plunge the world into unending darkness and suffering?
Because Link made fun of my hair.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
Your post is funny because it infers any Zelda villian has a logical reason for being evil.
edit: Oh, nevermind, it seems you've devised your own reasons for Ganondorfs motives. Unsupported by any official sources.
Professor Beef
Banned
...But Ganondorf DOES have reasons for the things he has done, as explained in OoT and Wind Waker.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
Yes, and those reasons are ridiculous.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Ganon has always had a motivation, going back to his original reason for his pig design: he's greedy. He's greedy and arrogant and thinks that he's the only one worthy of possessing all he sees. WW Ganondorf is consumed by his greed (brought on by a life of envy) to the point that it becomes a matter of principle more than practicality, and TP Ganondorf is so exceedingly arrogant that he believes a twist of fate to be a sign that he's meant to possess ultimate power and rightfully rule by force, and that nothing else can even touch him.