Zoe Quinn #meToo / Alec Holowka suicide -- Update: Article questions ZQ's account of events (link in OP)

CrustyBritches

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The TPM author already has her name attached to the story, doubt she was the target. I looked into it and it looks like this story originated on KF where a user was friended by Chelsea when she unlocked her account. She was only thinking of the recent Cancelling of Alec, where most of the planning was privately coordinated. Chelsea had forgotten she was tweeting hundreds of times during her stay with Alec, so she never thought to go back and scrub.

So we have banning and locking of the Reee- topic, DDoS and attempted hacking of The Post Millennial, DDoS and hacking of KF, and scrubbing of Zoe and gamergate entries on Urban Dictionary. My guess is that where there is smoke there is fire, and not even KF or this dude know what they're circling in on. My guess is some super weird shit like Scientology for indie game devs.
 
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Xenon

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Candace a "soldier" lmao I'm done with you
Ok sorry that's a bit much. But Candice is at least fighting for what she believes in with logical arguments. Zoe spent the last few years living off of playing victim. When she tried to cash in again by using a very twisted account of her previous relationship with an unstable person it resulted in the man killing himself.

There is a huge difference between the two.

Edit, not that I condone cancel culture but in cases where the involved parties have previous relationships, people need to take extra caution with accusations that can destroy someone. Especially when there's such a strong motive for that to actually happen.
 
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Gods&Monsters

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How come after all these years of lies and smear campaigns the police is still not involved or lawyers at least? I don't get it.

And where is all the money? That would be a nice investigation.
 
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Chelsea does not seem to be (primarily) BPD - she seems like a classic narcissist, and there is no good way to treat them. They are predatory, manipulative, and spiteful. And the only real way to deal with them and make them manageable for a short time outside of coddling them is to starve them of attention for long periods.
Yeah, I guess. Depending on the person

Though, there is good information on how to treat narcissism
Which falls in line with most mental health treatments; therapy and medication

Humans are social creatures, which would explain why a narcissist would seek others to validate their narcissism.
"Starving," them isn't exactly the way to go IMO; in a therapy aspect, probably teaching the person to identify the behavior and how to handle/prevent it is what they would do. Some people need to distance themselves from others to concentrate on that until they're ready and others need a larger support structure to help them throughout

I'm not a therapist myself, I play with compootahs for a living, but from my experience with my mother and discussing to a wide varying degree of how whatever therapist she has at the time would like stuff handled, that's kind of the "Theme," I've heard from them

Not going to lie, my Momma has done some stuff like Quinn does in her past, but she highly regrets it and helps give her clarity on how she needs to take care of bidness
 

Halo is Dead

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One positive aspect is that a lot evidence is archived and documented on the internet. Some people just cannot help themselves to put everything about themselves on the internet regardless of potential future consequences.
That’s why I keep social media down to a bare minimum. Only thing I post are memes and my opinion of music/movies 👌
 

TheContact

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Ok sorry that's a bit much. But Candice is at least fighting for what she believes in with logical arguments. Zoe spent the last few years living off of playing victim. When she tried to cash in again by using a very twisted account of her previous relationship with an unstable person it resulted in the man killing himself.

There is a huge difference between the two.

Edit, not that I condone cancel culture but in cases where the involved parties have previous relationships, people need to take extra caution with accusations that can destroy someone. Especially when there's such a strong motive for that to actually happen.
Candace absolutely does not believe in fighting for what she believes in. She was a liberal in 2016 and when she got doxxed for creating a doxxing site, Republicans used her, then she converted. Similar to Diamond and Silk, she sold her soul for money. Just listen to why she doesn't believe in climate change. Some highlights are (can't trust the source, it's political, I refuse to believe it). It's a Republican talking point and she has to adhere to it, that's all. Some of her Hitler comments were taken out of context, but she said Hitler was fine as long as he kept it within Germany and didn't try to expand out of the country. I get that people make mistakes; I bet she wishes she didn't make that comment, but she's 1000000% a shill. There's a LOT better Republicans out there that I disgaree with that at least fight for their true beliefs. Trust me, Candace is not one of them.
 

Halo is Dead

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Yeah, I guess. Depending on the person

Though, there is good information on how to treat narcissism
Which falls in line with most mental health treatments; therapy and medication

Humans are social creatures, which would explain why a narcissist would seek others to validate their narcissism.
"Starving," them isn't exactly the way to go IMO; in a therapy aspect, probably teaching the person to identify the behavior and how to handle/prevent it is what they would do. Some people need to distance themselves from others to concentrate on that until they're ready and others need a larger support structure to help them throughout

I'm not a therapist myself, I play with compootahs for a living, but from my experience with my mother and discussing to a wide varying degree of how whatever therapist she has at the time would like stuff handled, that's kind of the "Theme," I've heard from them

Not going to lie, my Momma has done some stuff like Quinn does in her past, but she highly regrets it and helps give her clarity on how she needs to take care of bidness
Narcissism Personality Disorder can not be cured really. Treatment can improve their lives a little bit but they will always be narcissist sadly
 
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SoraNoKuni

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Narcissism Personality Disorder can not be cured really. Treatment can improve their lives a little bit but they will always be narcissist sadly
I can very much agree with that (personal experience), a lot of "experts" around here(in my town in Greece) say the same as well.
Not sure if it's the general consensus though.
 
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VertigoOA

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I’ve dated women like this. More than a handful of times and they surely broke me pretty badly when it happened.

It’s why when I hear “believe women” .... give me a fucking break and get a better catchphrase morons. We all have known or will know crazy attentioned starved maneaters.

Don’t get me wrong. I love chasing narcissistic, selfish and temperamental women. I know how I’m wired and I don’t necesasrily think it’s a bad thing.

But when someone so full of it sees a situation unfair to them, and often thru a blurred lense of their own fiction ... a spiteful woman who can easily manipulate society around her to play victim is very fucking dangerous. You’d prefer to get you ass kicked physically than potentially have your life ruined for good and view on people soured.

I’d imagine she is deranged however. She’s made a name for herself.

I don’t believe that these women are getting serially raped from job to job. Because if it happens so often... umm why is that?
 
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Halo is Dead

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I can very much agree with that (personal experience), a lot of "experts" around here(in my town in Greece) say the same as well.
Not sure if it's the general consensus though.
Yea that pretty much is the consensus rn but there is some debate in the PSYCHOLOGY community wether or not a personality can be a disorder but I would argue that most are on the extreme spectrum. However, that is not to say that new treatments aren’t being worked on for NPD
 

VertigoOA

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All Greeks are bipolar. I say this as a Greek. It’s cultural. Don’t worry... my momma is nuts too.

:messenger_tears_of_joy:

I know an old time Greek mobster over here. Family friend... anyway notgiving our details but he once told me

“Us greeks are all fucking nuts kid. It all goes back to the image of happy and sad in Classical Greek drama. We’re just wired to extremes.”

I have never been able to refute this or find personal anecdotal experiences that didn’t support his theory. So now... I consider it fact.
 
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EightBit Man

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Some people just really need to hit rock bottom until they realize they've been on the wrong path. I've been there myself for a short period (though not related to manipulating others). It requires a certain kind of sensitivity (which is closely related to qualities like empathy and care).

What if Zoe decides to genuinely improve herself, talking things out, improving her relationships between normal human beings?
Maybe she sees that her destructive behavior is the result of her being psychologically abused by her mother.

Until that time I want to see her learning from the damage she has done.
 
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ExpandKong

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Some people just really need to hit rock bottom until they realize they've been on the wrong path. I've been there myself for a short period (though not related to manipulating others). It requires a certain kind of sensitivity (which is closely related to qualities like empathy and care).

What if Zoe decides to genuinely improve herself, talking things out, improving her relationships between normal human beings?
Maybe she sees that her destructive behavior is the result of her being psychologically abused by her mother.

Until that time I want to see her learning from the damage she has done.
Or maybe she was never abused by her mother?
 

Rock And Roll

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I’ve dated women like this. More than a handful of times and they surely broke me pretty badly when it happened.

It’s why when I hear “believe women” .... give me a fucking break and get a better catchphrase morons. We all have known or will know crazy attentioned starved maneaters.

Don’t get me wrong. I love chasing narcissistic, selfish and temperamental women. I know how I’m wired and I don’t necesasrily think it’s a bad thing.

But when someone so full of it sees a situation unfair to them, and often thru a blurred lense of their own fiction ... a spiteful woman who can easily manipulate society around her to play victim is very fucking dangerous. You’d prefer to get you ass kicked physically than potentially have your life ruined for good and view on people soured.

I’d imagine she is deranged however. She’s made a name for herself.

I don’t believe that these women are getting serially raped from job to job. Because if it happens so often... umm why is that?
I think the ones who have never known one are the sex starved Virgins sticking up for them online, thinking their chivalry might lead them to getting laid.
 

FMXVII

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They are using his corpse as a soapbox to talk about "toxic masculinity" and "male fragility". A man committed suicide and these people feel that this is the perfect time to go on a diatribe about how all men are awful. Even in death this guy can't escape the SJW slander media circus.

It is all so tiresome.
It is infuriating.

Oh. Wait. That's MY problem. Getting angry at a female for her overtly murderous behavior is a clear sign of Toxic Masculinity.

If loathing her is wrong, I won't ever be right.
 

PKM

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Anna out here doing real journalism



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Two days ago I was granted access into Zoe Quinn&#39;s locked Twitter, now we got access into Alec Holowka&#39;s DMs had with a colleague about his time with Quinn. <br><br>Would it shock you if I said he paints a VERY different picture of their time together?<a href="https://t.co/QrWFVAt5ZJ">https://t.co/QrWFVAt5ZJ</a></p>&mdash; Anna Slatz (@YesThatAnna) <a href="">September 11, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

CrustyBritches

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Damn, these past 2 articles from TPM and Anna have been dynamite. Chelsea you sooooo bad.


Holowka also expressed that he felt those viewing what would have been the GamerGate controversy as an issue of simple sexism were mistaken, having first-hand experience with Quinn that contradicted the very public narrative.

However, Holowka’s expressions of dissatisfaction with his past relationship predate Quinn’s 2014 controversies, eliminating the possibility that the conversions stemmed from a bitterness towards Quinn’s public stance or a need to sneakily cover his own abusive past. In simpler terms: Holowka has no motive to mischaracterize the relationship he had with Quinn. His claims in 2013 are consistent with these newly uncovered claims. -The Post Millenial
More details and screencaps after the jump...
 

Eotheod

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Anna got steam that's for sure. Can't be hating on someone whose been there, done that because it makes you look like a lazy prick for picking on them.
 
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Shmunter

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Anna out here doing real journalism



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Two days ago I was granted access into Zoe Quinn&#39;s locked Twitter, now we got access into Alec Holowka&#39;s DMs had with a colleague about his time with Quinn. <br><br>Would it shock you if I said he paints a VERY different picture of their time together?<a href="https://t.co/QrWFVAt5ZJ">https://t.co/QrWFVAt5ZJ</a></p>&mdash; Anna Slatz (@YesThatAnna) <a href="">September 11, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I’m speechless. I’m without words.
 
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captainraincoat

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I'm guessing there's more coming as the people behind the scenes are going the nuclear option

Its funny to see the first signs of someone being proved wrong and their whole beliefs being discredited as it's based on lies and the only thing they can do is silence it or try to keep it quiet

Do you know who else did that.....Nazis

You live long enough to become the enemy you hate
 
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FMXVII

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I'm guessing there's more coming as the people behind the scenes are going the nuclear option

Its funny to see the first signs of someone being proved wrong and their whole beliefs being discredited as it's based on lies and the only thing they can do is silence it or try to keep it quiet

Do you know who else did that.....Nazis

You live long enough to become the enemy you hate
Yep.

But we can't invoke Nazis "because Godwin."

It is kind of fucked, when you think about it.
 

Knivess

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Could be. However, somewhere something must've gone wrong. No child is born as a crook.
Not sure I agree with that, I honestly believe sometimes genuinely good people can come from terrible parents and a terrible upbringing and sometimes people are just rotten inside even when they're brought up by the best parents and environment, it might help to limit the extent of the rot but its still there.

I see a lot of people bringing up narcissism and BPD and that may be true but to put my armchair psychologists hat on for a moment she honestly sounds more like a classic psychopath to me.

The extreme manipulative and deceptive tendencies, the ability to charm the people around her and hide her true intentions and so far as i can see a complete lack of any genuine remorse for anything she's done. Even her emotional responses and bouts of crying seem calculated and always at a time when its to her advantage, never beyond her control.
 

Scopa

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People/sites very likely DDoS’d by Zoe Quinn or her virgin orbiters so far:
  • Candace Owen and her Kickstarter
  • The Post Millenial
  • Kiwi Farms

Who’s next? Batten down the hatches!
 

the Guynecologist

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The TPM author already has her name attached to the story, doubt she was the target. I looked into it and it looks like this story originated on KF where a user was friended by Chelsea when she unlocked her account. She was only thinking of the recent Cancelling of Alec, where most of the planning was privately coordinated. Chelsea had forgotten she was tweeting hundreds of times during her stay with Alec, so she never thought to go back and scrub.

So we have banning and locking of the Reee- topic, DDoS and attempted hacking of The Post Millennial, DDoS and hacking of KF, and scrubbing of Zoe and gamergate entries on Urban Dictionary. My guess is that where there is smoke there is fire, and not even KF or this dude know what they're circling in on. My guess is some super weird shit like Scientology for indie game devs.
While this is nothing new for Chelsea I do need to point out that we don't know that KF was compromised due to the recent events with Zoe or if it's for entirely different reasons. KF has pissed off a lot of people over the years and Zoe's just one of them. The same thing happened at the beginning of gamergate too. Lots of weird shit happened (for much of which the most likely culprit was Zoe herself) in a really short span of time. But as a result shit that was just happening regardless ended up being conflated with it. Look, the timing's suspicious as fuck but it could've been anybody. There is a lot of smoke but some of the smoke might be coming from completely different fires. GG unfortunately conflated all the smoke as coming from one source, hence why gg was a clusterfuck.

On a lighter note KF is back online. Site owner, Null, refuses to speculate on who hacked the site.

People/sites very likely DDoS’d by Zoe Quinn or her virgin orbiters so far:
  • Candace Owen and her Kickstarter
  • The Post Millenial
  • Kiwi Farms

Who’s next? Batten down the hatches!
You're forgetting the TFYC kickstarter that Zoe sabotaged, the website GamesNosh for publishing an article that was anti-Quinn back when the Zoe Post first came out (in which the article was pulled by their webhost and excluded from WayBack Machine archives), and the sabotage of the Polaris game Jam. Of course all of these things happened shortly before/during August 2014 so it's kinda ancient history now. However all 3 of those things where big topics back then and part of the reason gamergate grew so large so fast.
 

captainraincoat

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While this is nothing new for Chelsea I do need to point out that we don't know that KF was compromised due to the recent events with Zoe or if it's for entirely different reasons. KF has pissed off a lot of people over the years and Zoe's just one of them. The same thing happened at the beginning of gamergate too. Lots of weird shit happened (for much of which the most likely culprit was Zoe herself) in a really short span of time. But as a result shit that was just happening regardless ended up being conflated with it. Look, the timing's suspicious as fuck but it could've been anybody. There is a lot of smoke but some of the smoke might be coming from completely different fires. GG unfortunately conflated all the smoke as coming from one source, hence why gg was a clusterfuck.

On a lighter note KF is back online. Site owner, Null, refuses to speculate on who hacked the site.


You're forgetting the TFYC kickstarter that Zoe sabotaged, the website GamesNosh for publishing an article that was anti-Quinn back when the Zoe Post first came out (in which the article was pulled by their webhost and excluded from WayBack Machine archives), and the sabotage of the Polaris game Jam. Of course all of these things happened shortly before/during August 2014 so it's kinda ancient history now. However all 3 of those things where big topics back then and part of the reason gamergate grew so large so fast.
The timing of it seems rather convenient much like how this place was dosed when the lies started to get questioned.....seems to be a pattern

Fling an accusation....let the sheep bite and the non sheep who don't follow get silenced

As much as kiwifarms does have a reputation you can't say they pick sides....if your a sore they will pick that scab and as certain areas of the internet cant control the narrative or people investigating they simply drop some Bitcoin on a darkweb botnet hire and let the silence commence

There are more areas of the internet picking this up now so it's gonna be fun to see what they do
 
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TraceTheTong

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Fucking great, now I have to update this table again or it'll bother me. This is a table of claims from sources and how they match up. It is the result of only an hour or two's work. Now with added links to what others have been saying. This is a table made with the desire to catalog and compare evidence only.

Disclaimer: If you are a journalist and you are reading this post, don't use it. Gather your sources, create your own comparison table and compare it with this one. Because that's your job. Chance are you'll only spin it into a "hitlist" or battle plan or some bollocks.

Reading:
* Zoe's Claims source is here
* Post Millennial article about Zoe's past tweets is here
* Post Millennial article about leaked DMs between Alec and an unnamed colleague is here
* Strong post by Scott Benson, fellow dev of Night in the Woods, detailing a lot about Alec's mental instability.


ROUGH DATEZOE'S CLAIMSPOST MILLENNIAL FINDINGS (ZOE'S PAST TWEETS)CONCLUSION
PRE-MARCH 2012 (Zoe goes on to say this she meets Alec "one month after the assault", so we can place this around about February-ish)Abuse from an Unnamed Assailant [zoe notes: paragraph 2 & 3]No comment in the PM article on thisNo conclusion - zoe doesn't name this abuser, and quickly mentions that "this isn't about him. I've forgiven him." We can ignore this claim, for now for the purpose of this Alec case. PM doesn't mention it.
START OF MARCH 2012Give that Zoe's notes gives us a rough date of the previous abuse at Feburary, she meets Alec "one month later", placing that around march. We can conclude that they start chatting around here.PM found multiple snippets from a podcast in which Zoe goes on to explain how she met alec, via DMs on twatter.
MARCH 2012Zoe doesn't specify when she gears up to go to Winnpeg to live with Alec in the zoe notes source.PM found, from archived tweets, that Zoe was preparing to go to Winnipeg around MarchWe can conclude that Zoe prepared to leave Toronto for Winnipeg in March
MARCH END / APRIL START 2012As above, zoe doesn't specify when she moves to WinnipegUsing dozens of archived tweets from Zoe's twitter, PM very reliably places the move date around this timeWe can conclude that Zoe moves from Toronto to Winnipeg around the start of April (if not the end of March)
APRIL START TO MID APRIL 2012During this period, zoe claims a bulk of things done by Alec in the zoe notes [paragraph 7] Part of Zoe's claims during this period is that Alec isolated her and locked her away from the 3 unnamed friends during this period.Around this time, Zoe and Alec appear together on a Podcast, explaining how they met on twitter, their relationship, and their project Not Ok Cupid (never released). Obviously, no mention of abuse happens on the podcast. Alec mentions that he spent some time on OK Cupid before meeting zoe. Hence the project. There are dozens and dozens of tweets detailing their time through-out april in Winnipeg. Including arranging a meet-up, shopping, and so on.We can conclude that Alec probably did not shut Zoe away and isolate her, at least for the most part, because they often tweeted about their movements. Assuming the tweets are true, for now.

NOTE: There's alot of say-so about Alec's mental instability (including gossip of his own posted in 2016). We can assume that he wasn't very stable. We can probably assume that the relationship wasn't all that easy, either.
MID APRIL 2012This is around the time (2 weeks later) that zoe would of moved back to Winnipeg after staying with Alec, as they supposedly agreed, according to the zoe notes source [zoe notes: paragraph 3] Zoe would by the ticket there, Alec would by her the ticket back. They were supposed to live in an "indie house" with 3 others (unnamed) this was what they agreed pre-zoe's-departure. She would claim to stay for a full monthThere's no real mention of the 2 week plan in the PM article.We can conclude that she definitely stayed longer than two weeks. What's debatable here is: was that the original plan? Was the "two week" plan a lie?
END OF APRIL/ MAY START 2012This is probably around where Zoe claims to have come back (one month later) using air miles provided to her by a friend, since Alec refused to buy her a flight back as they previously agreed. She claims to have flown back with no mention of other travels. As if escaping.The PM article has screencaps of a tweet dated May 2nd, that details a going to a Winnipeg meet up, then going to Montreal and Toronto (she heads to Toronto on the 4th)By Zoe's tweet, we can conclude that she did travel back to Toronto around a month later. She PROBABLY didn't use a friend's air miles to escape Winnipeg, as she obviously travelled to Montreal as well.
MAY 10th 2012-Is the last known tweet between Alec and Zoe, as detailed in the PM articleI can't conclude much here, apart from they stopped communicating. Could be because of the "amiable break up email" Zoe claimed to have sent after arriving back in Toronto
POST MAY 10th 2012In the zoe notes, she claims that here Alec "banned her from an indie gaming community he ran, banned himself, asked other industry leaders to help him commit suicide"None of this is detailed in the PM Article. But it does mention Alec's mental instability, and other people agreeing that he was suicidal.We can conclude that Alec is capable of lashing out like this given a history of instability.
We can perhaps conclude that the "community" in question is the indie meetup they arranged together called Windiepeg.
GAMERGATE START (earliest account, August 2014 ish, but we don't know what Zoe regards as the start of GG)Zoe claims that multiple people came forward with claims of Alec's abusive behavior.No mention of this in PM.
We can conclude here that, using evidence of Alec's instability, that perhaps some people did contact Zoe about his behaviour. The 3 unnamed friends or one of the ~38 devs attending Windiepeg would be viable candidates
AUGUST 14th 2014Same claim as above, as this is around the same time.In a new article by PM (see third source above), DMs between Alec and an unknown colleague has surfaced, dated August 14th 2014. They go into detail about:
- Alec was scared to come forward about instances of Zoe's behaviour due to career backlash.
- During a party, Zoe got quickly drunk and flirted with multiple people. Later, she would complain to Alec about a woman flirting with her. Alec, in some attempt to dodge a fight with Zoe, suggested a solution. They fought any way, no surprise there.

- On the date that Zoe moves to Winnipeg (See row labelled MARCH END / APRIL START 2012). In the DMs Alex claims that he was in love with her around this time, and when the move was done they might go to couple counselling, in some attempt to keep the relationship together. Zoe was up for the idea at first. When Alec offers to pay for the counselling, Zoe is some what offended, but is more than likely just dodging the responsibility of paying for sessions and being defensive.
- In another DM, Alec expresses the opinion that those who view gamergate as a simple issue of sexism simply "arn't looking in detail." Probably drawing on his own experience of Zoe first hand. Later, he goes on to sum up the ordeal very succinctly with the phrase "It's not because she is a woman, it's because she is a shitty person." Aptly put, mate.

We can conclude that Alex regarded himself and Zoe as IN A RELATIONSHIP before Zoe moved to him. There is also NO mention of the "indie house" plan.

It's very obvious that Zoe was also a terrible partner in the relationship. That has always been obvious, but I didn't think it was to this extent. This is well within Zoe's character. It's easy to see just how difficult it was a relationship between the two of them, but it's a bit more skewed in Zoe's direction than before. We have yet to see solid evidence of the abuse from Alec's side. We've seen evidence of his instability, however, so it's doubtful he was squeaky clean as well. Saying that, we also know that Zoe has claimed abuse from assailants in just about every
combination and flavour. Lastly, we see that Alec puts some effort into making it a healthier relationship via counselling and great cost to himself.
-5 YEARS LATER--
August 28th 2019 (now)Zoe's statement about Alec's alleged abuse. Multiple people back her up in variable degrees, such as Laurie Pennie, and the other devs of Night in the Woods, to a very small degree Alec's sister alsoDuring this phase, Zoe deletes her twitter account only to reactivate it days later as "protected", someone archives lots of tweets and feeds them to PM, as part of the article. The article mentions that many tweets around the period specified in this timeline was DELETED, but managed to get screencapped in a video, sent to PM as part of the article.Alec commits suicide some time after. The vast majority of games news outlets just mention "died"; being unusually respectful. Zoe goes into twitter damage control, deleting tweets from the period with Alec, but she's too slow. The two other devs also delete their accounts, perhaps for the same reason. Though now their accounts are back online [1] [2]
 
x1

nush

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Damn, these past 2 articles from TPM and Anna have been dynamite. Chelsea you sooooo bad.


More details and screencaps after the jump...

"She kept going to the bathroom", well, that lines up with what some people have speculated here. Apart from the ones that say she's full of shit.
 

nush

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Fucking great, now I have to update this table again or it'll bother me. This is a table of claims from sources and how they match up. It is the result of only an hour or two's work. Now with added links to what others have been saying. This is a table made with the desire to catalog and compare evidence only.

Disclaimer: If you are a journalist and you are reading this post, don't use it. Gather your sources, create your own comparison table and compare it with this one. Because that's your job. Chance are you'll only spin it into a "hitlist" or battle plan or some bollocks.


Reading:
* Zoe's Claims source is here
* Post Millennial article about Zoe's past tweets is here
* Post Millennial article about leaked DMs between Alec and an unnamed colleague is here
* Strong post by Scott Benson, fellow dev of Night in the Woods, detailing a lot about Alec's mental instability.


ROUGH DATEZOE'S CLAIMSPOST MILLENNIAL FINDINGS (ZOE'S PAST TWEETS)CONCLUSION
PRE-MARCH 2012 (Zoe goes on to say this she meets Alec "one month after the assault", so we can place this around about February-ish)Abuse from an Unnamed Assailant [zoe notes: paragraph 2 & 3]No comment in the PM article on thisNo conclusion - zoe doesn't name this abuser, and quickly mentions that "this isn't about him. I've forgiven him." We can ignore this claim, for now for the purpose of this Alec case. PM doesn't mention it.
START OF MARCH 2012Give that Zoe's notes gives us a rough date of the previous abuse at Feburary, she meets Alec "one month later", placing that around march. We can conclude that they start chatting around here.PM found multiple snippets from a podcast in which Zoe goes on to explain how she met alec, via DMs on twatter.
MARCH 2012Zoe doesn't specify when she gears up to go to Winnpeg to live with Alec in the zoe notes source.PM found, from archived tweets, that Zoe was preparing to go to Winnipeg around MarchWe can conclude that Zoe prepared to leave Toronto for Winnipeg in March
MARCH END / APRIL START 2012As above, zoe doesn't specify when she moves to WinnipegUsing dozens of archived tweets from Zoe's twitter, PM very reliably places the move date around this timeWe can conclude that Zoe moves from Toronto to Winnipeg around the start of April (if not the end of March)
APRIL START TO MID APRIL 2012During this period, zoe claims a bulk of things done by Alec in the zoe notes [paragraph 7] Part of Zoe's claims during this period is that Alec isolated her and locked her away from the 3 unnamed friends during this period.Around this time, Zoe and Alec appear together on a Podcast, explaining how they met on twitter, their relationship, and their project Not Ok Cupid (never released). Obviously, no mention of abuse happens on the podcast. Alec mentions that he spent some time on OK Cupid before meeting zoe. Hence the project. There are dozens and dozens of tweets detailing their time through-out april in Winnipeg. Including arranging a meet-up, shopping, and so on.We can conclude that Alec probably did not shut Zoe away and isolate her, at least for the most part, because they often tweeted about their movements. Assuming the tweets are true, for now.

NOTE: There's alot of say-so about Alec's mental instability (including gossip of his own posted in 2016). We can assume that he wasn't very stable. We can probably assume that the relationship wasn't all that easy, either.
MID APRIL 2012This is around the time (2 weeks later) that zoe would of moved back to Winnipeg after staying with Alec, as they supposedly agreed, according to the zoe notes source [zoe notes: paragraph 3] Zoe would by the ticket there, Alec would by her the ticket back. They were supposed to live in an "indie house" with 3 others (unnamed) this was what they agreed pre-zoe's-departure. She would claim to stay for a full monthThere's no real mention of the 2 week plan in the PM article.We can conclude that she definitely stayed longer than two weeks. What's debatable here is: was that the original plan? Was the "two week" plan a lie?
END OF APRIL/ MAY START 2012This is probably around where Zoe claims to have come back (one month later) using air miles provided to her by a friend, since Alec refused to buy her a flight back as they previously agreed. She claims to have flown back with no mention of other travels. As if escaping.The PM article has screencaps of a tweet dated May 2nd, that details a going to a Winnipeg meet up, then going to Montreal and Toronto (she heads to Toronto on the 4th)By Zoe's tweet, we can conclude that she did travel back to Toronto around a month later. She PROBABLY didn't use a friend's air miles to escape Winnipeg, as she obviously travelled to Montreal as well.
MAY 10th 2012-Is the last known tweet between Alec and Zoe, as detailed in the PM articleI can't conclude much here, apart from they stopped communicating. Could be because of the "amiable break up email" Zoe claimed to have sent after arriving back in Toronto
POST MAY 10th 2012In the zoe notes, she claims that here Alec "banned her from an indie gaming community he ran, banned himself, asked other industry leaders to help him commit suicide"None of this is detailed in the PM Article. But it does mention Alec's mental instability, and other people agreeing that he was suicidal.We can conclude that Alec is capable of lashing out like this given a history of instability.
We can perhaps conclude that the "community" in question is the indie meetup they arranged together called Windiepeg.
GAMERGATE START (earliest account, August 2014 ish, but we don't know what Zoe regards as the start of GG)Zoe claims that multiple people came forward with claims of Alec's abusive behavior.No mention of this in PM.We can conclude here that, using evidence of Alec's instability, that perhaps some people did contact Zoe about his behaviour. The 3 unnamed friends or one of the ~38 devs attending Windiepeg would be viable candidates
AUGUST 14th 2014Same claim as above, as this is around the same time.In a new article by PM (see third source above), DMs between Alec and an unknown colleague has surfaced, dated August 14th 2014. They go into detail about:
- Alec was scared to come forward about instances of Zoe's behaviour due to career backlash.
- During a party, Zoe got quickly drunk and flirted with multiple people. Later, she would complain to Alec about a woman flirting with her. Alec, in some attempt to dodge a fight with Zoe, suggested a solution. They fought any way, no surprise there.

- On the date that Zoe moves to Winnipeg (See row labelled MARCH END / APRIL START 2012). In the DMs Alex claims that he was in love with her around this time, and when the move was done they might go to couple counselling, in some attempt to keep the relationship together. Zoe was up for the idea at first. When Alec offers to pay for the counselling, Zoe is some what offended, but is more than likely just dodging the responsibility of paying for sessions and being defensive.
- In another DM, Alec expresses the opinion that those who view gamergate as a simple issue of sexism simply "arn't looking in detail." Probably drawing on his own experience of Zoe first hand. Later, he goes on to sum up the ordeal very succinctly with the phrase "It's not because she is a woman, it's because she is a shitty person." Aptly put, mate.
We can conclude that Alex regarded himself and Zoe as IN A RELATIONSHIP before Zoe moved to him. There is also NO mention of the "indie house" plan.

It's very obvious that Zoe was also a terrible partner in the relationship. That has always been obvious, but I didn't think it was to this extent. This is well within Zoe's character. It's easy to see just how difficult it was a relationship between the two of them, but it's a bit more skewed in Zoe's direction than before. We have yet to see solid evidence of the abuse from Alec's side. We've seen evidence of his instability, however, so it's doubtful he was squeaky clean as well. Saying that, we also know that Zoe has claimed abuse from assailants in just about every
combination and flavour. Lastly, we see that Alec puts some effort into making it a healthier relationship via counselling and great cost to himself.
-5 YEARS LATER--
August 28th 2019 (now)Zoe's statement about Alec's alleged abuse. Multiple people back her up in variable degrees, such as Laurie Pennie, and the other devs of Night in the Woods, to a very small degree Alec's sister alsoDuring this phase, Zoe deletes her twitter account only to reactivate it days later as "protected", someone archives lots of tweets and feeds them to PM, as part of the article. The article mentions that many tweets around the period specified in this timeline was DELETED, but managed to get screencapped in a video, sent to PM as part of the article.Alec commits suicide some time after. The vast majority of games news outlets just mention "died"; being unusually respectful. Zoe goes into twitter damage control, deleting tweets from the period with Alec, but she's too slow. The two other devs also delete their accounts, perhaps for the same reason. Though now their accounts are back online [1] [2]
Good work here once again. I would suggest screencapping and rehosting those images in case they become no longer available as a backup.
 

TraceTheTong

Gold Member
Aug 11, 2019
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Eh I wanted to add in this edit but I ran out of edit time:

Why have you made this table? Are you a turbo-autist?? No. I have been very disappointed with modern journalism on the whole for about 10 years. I've was also very involved in Gamergate; anonymously investigating and compiling, scraping IRC logs, distilling loads of emails for pertinent points etc, on the Gamergate side. I just want journalists to put some effort in, and so trying to lead by example.

Good work here once again. I would suggest screencapping and rehosting those images in case they become no longer available as a backup.
I'll have to depend on others for that, I don't have the time. Feel free to contribute like that if you can.
 

Blam

Member
Jun 7, 2016
6,094
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It blows my mind this asshat still has a platform and people folllow her. Like holy fuck not even a compulsive liar is as bad as the shit she keeps spewing out of her fucking mouth.