It's 10 billion yen.
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Nintendo FY14 Q1: 0.82M 3DS, 0.51M Wii U, MK8 2.82M shipped, 10 billion yen loss
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It's 10 billion yen.
Sectorseven
Member
Why the drop in digital sales?
Nope, you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about, sorry bunny. AMD APUs scale from under 3 watts to Ps4 today, in two years it is easy to see how they can apply to both a handheld and console. Heck even Microsoft is doing the same thing going forward.
Where does it look like they're on track to fix things? Is it the mediocre-and-declining sales of their handheld, or the continued terrible sales of their home console that gives you such hope? It can't be the anemic software sales, which aren't likely to improve much due to the disappointing install base of their current gen platforms.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Wow, only 6.7 million Wii U's to date. The attach rate seems pretty good with over five games a person. I had no idea the 3DS had such a shitty attach rate with under four games a person, unless I'm reading things wrong.
People pointing to Nintendo's decline in download revenue...it's very simple. There are less games being released on their two consoles this year. Wii U has MK8...that is like literally the only game released this quarter. Third party is a ghost town, indies have been slow to release, the VC remains sub-par.
3DS has Kirby and Mario Golf. No big time software, certainly not on the scale of Animal Crossing and Luigi's Mansion (which released at the end of the quarter last year) like last year. Plus DKCR3D. And again, third party releases declining.
So well yes their account system is an issue, it's not really fair to say that's why digital revenue declined. Less releases = less sales. It's really that simple.
3DS has Kirby and Mario Golf. No big time software, certainly not on the scale of Animal Crossing and Luigi's Mansion (which released at the end of the quarter last year) like last year. Plus DKCR3D. And again, third party releases declining.
So well yes their account system is an issue, it's not really fair to say that's why digital revenue declined. Less releases = less sales. It's really that simple.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Horrific Virtual Console offerings, for starters. It's like they don't even care. They promised N64 games over a year and a half ago and they're nowhere to be seen.
Mysterious
Banned
So why is PS4 doing good then?
shinra-bansho
Member
Lack of software releases, but probably just as importantly the types of releases probably play a part as digital revenues should encompass supplementary digital content i.e. DLC, multiplayer maps etc.
It's also probably worth noting that for EA, for instance, for CYQ1 their biggest Y/Y growth segment for digital revenues was in mobile.
Traditionally that has been true, however social marketing and the companies that use it aggressively are wrecking the value of word-of-mouth.
metalslimer
Member
Yes but it all comes down to the biggest problem Nintendo has and that is the complete lack of 3rd party support. Also Mario Kart pretty much counts for 4-5 other Nintendo releases considering it's the biggest game that will release on Wii U. It certainly is bigger than everything Nintendo released last year up to Super Mario 3D World combined.
haha, yeah no doubt. I just ask in these threads because they attract ninty watchers and I don't want to make a thread about it.
Mysterious
Banned
Marketing also extends to product design. Wii U's main feature, the Gamepad, is being rejected by the mass market. So you are correct; marketing sucks.
Thank you very much.
I'm still trying to figure that out myself because the software sales aren't exactly lining up with the hardware. I know of quite a few people who didn't buy any games with their console and rely solely on PS+. Some guys still haven't even taken the console out of the box.
I'd be happy to be wrong if Ninty goes x86 and makes things easy for 3rd parties. I'd be really surprised tho.
shinra-bansho
Member
I'm sure there are some numbers in that statement made of invisible text I'm missing that verify such a claim.
Honestly makes as much sense to go ARM, CPU architectures are not an issue with porting, every engine developers use today support both. ARM is also the better architecture and is quickly out pacing X86.
Last NPD has hardware up 106% while software is still down 3%. Yes that is muffled considering the other consoles but to have such a massive push for hardware while software remains stagnant to falling is really astonishing.
Had to correct some numbers.
Fourth Storm
Member
ISA really doesn't mean much in modern development, Bunny. That's what recompiles are for. That is if the features are there, of course (Wii U's CPU just doesn't have the SIMD capabilities, but other PPC and ARM cores do). I'd be more concerned about dev tool integration (proper Visual Studio support) and timely communication with third parties.
Yes, as I said, the lack of third party titles is certainly part of the result, on both platforms. The Wii U also had a bleak Q4...DKCTF and that's pretty much it. So basically, there were like two games to download in 6 months. Not much carry over into Q1 is what I'm getting at, for either console honestly.
As for MK8 digital sales...who knows. I'm sure they were significant, but not enough to account for the complete lack of third party as well as the lack of first party. Also, Animal Crossing last year was surely a big download title, probably comparable to MK8 downloads I bet.
InsaneZero
Member
Your concerns are based entirely on a misunderstanding of the purpose of a shared library - providing a layer of abstraction to the actual hardware so that the code is not dependent on any specific hardware configuration. Conceptually, there is no such thing as a "low-spec" API, because APIs are inherently not tied to any actual hardware specifications.
Now, in the real world, APIs can be limited in the functions that it can provide. However, APIs can simply be updated or expanded to provide more functionality. All software developers will need to care about is to write against that API, then they can simply get support for all the platforms that support that API for free. See iOS/Android applications for actual examples.
Saying that this is not inherently a plus for developers in comparison to how console development is handled today in general is just really completely wrong here. Reduction of costs of porting code and not having another learning curve for every new platform is a huge benefit for people.
shinra-bansho
Member
By revenue.
New hardware is more expensive than old hardware. Comparing percentage changes in revenue between hardware and software is flawed.
Legacy platform software has fallen much faster than expected. New system software sales are healthy, and publishers are happy with them, by most accounts from people who would know like John Harker in the NPD threads.
Tie ratios are perfectly within the realm of "normal" for early life platforms, especially considering the rapid initial rate of hardware sales.
So it's possible a game like AC:Unity could be running on an ARM cpu with near the same effort as getting it running on PS4/X1/PC?
For Wii U, they had a big campaign with MK8, which should've massively increased digital sales. In the first half of 2013, Wii U didn't have a better lineup than in 2014 either. You are right about the lack of releases on 3DS though.
Would it have increased digital sales? It's done by revenue and they got no money for those games.
Team Top Hat
Banned
This is an easy answer. The price for all their digital software is 99.9% of the time MSRP with rarely any sales. I know I personally do not buy any virtual console games from them because of zero cross buy. If they want my money they can't expect me to buy the same damn game twice.
If it's done by revenue, I'm not too sure.
Yes, as long as Anvil 2 supports ARM, not sure what the vita game used, might of been the original Anvil, but we see this pretty often with other engines such as Unity.
It is done by revenue.
right, and digital platforms are going to become more and more successful going forward. making super high budget console games for a shrinking audience is going to be less lucrative moving forward. why, i believe in a hundred years only the five richest kings of europe will afford them.
Been saying this for a while now and maybe I'm crazy, but I think Nintendo should abandon the traditional video game industry entirely. It's clear their philosophy is different than not only Sony/MS but major third parties as well. I feel those differences are irreconcilable and leave them in the cold.
I think they should release a box for two hundred dollars max, that they can profit from immediately. Pay zero attention to third parties and expand their own studios to keep software rolling steady. Unfortunately Nintendo still believes, at one level or another, that 1 great game a quarter is all that is necessary. Obviously not true.
Most importantly, they need a new input method, something novel that catches the imagination of the masses like the Wii did. Of course I could be biased. I think the Wii U's failure can be directly attributed to them pandering unsuccessfully to an audience that they couldn't hope to sustain regardless (tablet/dual analog). I think coupling an input method not available anywhere else, with inventive software is their only path forward.
Even then, I have my doubts.
Fourth Storm
Member
Depending on how the engine is coded and the capabilities of the ARM processor, possibly yes. The PC version will already be running on an abstraction layer - DirectX and/or OpenGL - and I doubt that the cosole versions will be coded "to the metal" either.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
MK8 did not sell 600k systems.
It caused a 100k bump in the US and 20k bump in JP.
I'm still trying to figure out where your getting this from tbh
PS4 tie ratios have been perfectly normal.
Yeah you're right. It's wishful thinking though...
You realize that of the three companies, they're more traditional than Sony or MS right?
Also, they're already doing what you asked with the Wii U although its not widely $200 yet.
LegendofLex
Member
I wouldn't say this, per se. If anything, they should pay much closer attention to third parties, not in the sense that they should court the big publishers, but in the sense that missing a game like Minecraft is probably the biggest problem their platforms have right now.
i think the idea of qol is their way of acknowledging they need other lines of business. yamauchi in the 60s was trying all sorts of shit in addition to the card business, until finally their toy business took off which eventually evolved into arcades and then arcade video games and finally home video games. since the 80s, the company really hasn't tried anything else, which is their biggest problem more than anything. they turned themselves into a video game company when they weren't before. for all the flack they get, i think level-5 views themselves as a multimedia corporation that makes entertainment in all fields. nintendo seems to only make movies and anime to support their games business.
the question is who they would be able to get. western support is pretty much a nonstarter outside of indies. it leaves their current relationships with sega, koei tecmo, bandai namco, capcom, and atlus. of those you have to look at who would benefit off major consoles and the investment related to developing for that. they may be swayed by the lesser costs associated with nintendo making a somewhat traditional video game hardware versus wholly going mobile (which i believe is the inevitable conclusion given how inadequately the ps4 and xb1 serve those companies).
Fourth Storm
Member
I have a feeling they are working on trying to get some type of exclusive version of Minecraft with Nintendo IP on their consoles. We'll see if the deal materializes, but that's the gist I got from recent interviews and Nintendo's history.
Not any more imo. I think when people think "video games" these days ms/sony are coming to mind first. Maybe I should have used the word standard instead? I also disagree that they're doing this already. The GamePad is a traditional controller with a screen in it. People who like traditional controllers have better options to choose from and Nintendo has been unable to demonstrate how a screen between to analog sticks is compelling on a large scale.
I'm on my phone, so it's only a summary of my thoughts, but what I mean is Nintendo can't in anyway design their systems around "me-too" definitions. Their competition is very focused on that market and makes Nintendo's attempts to appeal to those who prefer that section of the industry laughable.
They can't compete on sony/MS's terms. Attempting to dip their toes into that arena leaves them with WiiU and going all in will destroy them.
They should have minecraft, but they shouldn't NEED it.
protomouse
Member
I wouldn't go that far. The gamepad and the so called "asymmetric gaming" concept opens up a realm of new possibilities for game design. It's a revolution quieter than the Wii, but a revolution nevertheless. The problem is that even Nintendo themselves have failed to turn that potential of their platform into something compelling. They have also failed (miserably) to compete with Facebook and Apple platforms for the more casual crowd, but that is another topic in itself.
You say that underpowered hardware is a problem, and I agree. Several key people at Nintendo (Iwata, Miyamoto, Takeda) have over the years expressed their beliefs that hardware specs aren't everything. I totally agree with that, but that's not where the core market has ever been. By "core", I'm not necessarily referring to the people who count pixels and frames on the Internet but rather the people who buy a box to play the big third-party franchises and have read that the PS4 "has the best graphics". Nintendo hasn't catered to that audience in a long time - if ever. I frankly don't care if they ever do, as long as they find something to help them stay profitable. I wouldn't want Nintendo to stop offering unique experiences, which implies that I want their hardware business to stay. The Wii U is IMO one of Nintendo's best and ranks right up there with the Dreamcast as my console of all time. Nintendo's software output under Iwata has been stellar. As such, present day Nintendo is speaking to me on all levels. Sucks that it doesn't fly on the market, but hey.
moltonasty
Member
OMG Wii U still hasn't sold 7 mil!? This is a fucking travesty. It's a great system, and Nintendo's software output has been incredible in recent years, as others have noted. They deserve better than this.
LegendofLex
Member
They shouldn't be arrogant enough to think they can get away with letting their competitors have the first crack at the biggest gaming phenomenon of the last few years. Minecraft has probably sold more Xbox 360s than Wii U has sold LTD.
BengaBenga
Member
Last year Nintendo sold 12x the amount of Q1 Wii U units in Q3. If Nintendo can keep up this ratio it would lead to 6 million Wii U's in Q3. Obviously that looks very unrealistic, but these Q1 numbers do open the possibility of a good Q2 and Q3 for Nintendo, especially with Smash Bros.
The way Nintendo deals with the VC is absolutely minlowingly bad. Such poor management of a potential unique selling point really needs to be adressed very soon. N64 and MegaDrive need to be there before October as well as much more focus on the SNES. Obviously won't fully fix the digital underperformance, but I'm convinced it plays a major role in this.
veritassin
Banned
Well, they're hoping to alleviate their software shortages by making all software available on all their platforms it seems...
Q2 is going to be a huge decrease for Wii U imo. Not only is it the slow summer months, but they have fuck-all for software in Q2. July: nothing, August: nothing, September: Hyrule Warriors (yawn - and it doesn't release til Sep 26th in NA - barely making it in the reporting period). It's very, very wishful thinking that MK8 alone can carry momentum from Q1.