chromatic9
Member
I feel all warm and fuzzy.
I'd like to thank Crytek and CDPR for giving respect to my monitor res an refresh rate they deserve.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else
- Thread starter Jigolo
- Start date
- Status
I feel all warm and fuzzy.
I'd like to thank Crytek and CDPR for giving respect to my monitor res an refresh rate they deserve.
I'm going to shortlist a bunch of posts on both sides of the debate that will go up on a wall of shame on Monday/Tuesday depending on what we find out from 1:1 comparisons. You have been selected as the first candidate. Congrats!
pls no
nelsonroyale
Member
I didn't label the comparison. I'm just posting it to show that there is a huge difference.
We HAD a PC - PS4 comparison, until CDPR ate it to protect their precious sales. We HAVE PC footage on YouTube that shows that there's hardly a difference between the PS4 and PC versions. But yes, let's "wait and see". I'm sure a day 1 patch will come with a magical setting that fixes everything. Seriously I've never seen people more optimistic than you guys regardless of what's put in front of you. Wish I was like that because then I wouldn't be worrying... Until it comes out of course. But then you wouldn't really care anymore would you, because you'd be busy playing the game itself, which happens to be extremely good. CDPR knows what they're doing.
Anyways, here's the comparison i was looking for. Watch Dogs / DS2 downgrade was worse my ass.
I mean that comparison is definitely illustrative, but still crap. Get some high quality footage. The current screen is terrible quality. The game is in the wild, you can at least get some decent screens to make an accurate comparison...
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Because it probably looks better/More appealing for the most part when actually playing the game.
Everyone (including me) cried "Downgrade" when Bungie changed Halo 3's Master Chief model from the E3 trailer to the in game model.
But the truth is, Bungie knew that while the E3 model look fantastic in a trailer, at perfect angles and lighting, it looked like shit for the vast majority of the game. So they changed the model so it would look good in ALL lighting scenarios, and from ALL angles.
To quote myself from an old thread.
Just to further illustrate the impact of ToD.
The Halo 3 Announcement Trailer
Everyone thought the MC looked amazing.
Turns out that MC model didn't fair well in gameplay lighting situations. As evidenced by this screenshot.
It was so bad in fact, Bungie redid the model in favor of something that would look good in the variety of lighting situations their lighting tech was capable of.*
*Yes there were other downgrades with Halo 3 like LoD quality, and Real time Visor Reflections, but that's not what I am discussing.
Again, in conjunction with Crysis ToD art examples from earlier, this shows just how big of an impact the time of day can have with the same lighting system and assets in place.
I know sometimes we don't like to hear it, but often times when it comes to their own labor of love.... the developers usually know whats best overall for their than the internet.
From the perspective CDPr this thread is a nice problem to have? Also, I've yet to see anyone state their intent to not buy the game based on the current allegations (The only one I can remember was a joke?).
IDK if I was in their place and my potential customers loved it,I wouldn't change it
This is obvious, but if you want high quality screenshots we shouldn't be grabbing them from YouTube videos to begin with. But regardless, what I was trying to show (the fact there's a night and day difference between the two shots) doesn't require high quality screenshots, and the fact that it doesn't require high quality screenshots says a lot about how much was changed.
If you want to analyse the comparison in depth, then yeah I agree we'd need higher quality shots. I don't have them though, and that's the only one I could find that showed what i wanted to show.
Yep. Nvidia pages as well. Can't wait to get some closure on this and start playing the game. We are almost there .
or for the easy reason that if there was not a "downgrade" the same thread with same same number of pages was still here but with a different title:
The witcher 3 console suck
followed by another thread with other 115 pages: Why the next gen consoles are already old, or something like this
It does not take a seer to figure out that the game will very likely be near identical on PC and consoles. Multiplatform games are structurally similar across versions, we do have footage of max PC settings and while it does look good it's not on par with 2013 trailers.
I'll live with that.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Quality poster you will be.....
Commented video comparison of final PC version at ultra vs. Gameplay Trailer - Gamestar.de (German)
PC version is at maxium with 7490k + GTX 980 without day 1 patch
short Summary:
View distance is (way) worse
less/no Tesselation (Pause at 3:11, edge of wall for example)
way worse sky
lower LOD
low res textures in final PC build compared to trailer
Insinde buildings way worse lightning
worse water, again no tesselation
and ofc. way worse fire
The commentator says the final PC-version is a lot closer to the PS4 version then the trailers of 2014 and theres no way that could be changed with a day 1 patch.
Game looks still good, but nowhere near what has been advertised in the gameplay trailers, so in my opinion downgrade confirmed once an for all.
PS: i wonder how long this Video will be online, considering PCGH had to take down their video.
PPS: im german, so dont be rude if you find any typos or grammar errors
PC version is at maxium with 7490k + GTX 980 without day 1 patch
short Summary:
View distance is (way) worse
less/no Tesselation (Pause at 3:11, edge of wall for example)
way worse sky
lower LOD
low res textures in final PC build compared to trailer
Insinde buildings way worse lightning
worse water, again no tesselation
and ofc. way worse fire
The commentator says the final PC-version is a lot closer to the PS4 version then the trailers of 2014 and theres no way that could be changed with a day 1 patch.
Game looks still good, but nowhere near what has been advertised in the gameplay trailers, so in my opinion downgrade confirmed once an for all.
PS: i wonder how long this Video will be online, considering PCGH had to take down their video.
PPS: im german, so dont be rude if you find any typos or grammar errors
Kenzodielocke
Banned
155 shots of the PC version at max settings :
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127773964@N03/sets/72157652536729480/with/17127643174/
Once again the lack of 16xAF is obvious, I hope it can be forced in the driver panel...
Such an easy thing to implement, I wonder what's going on at CDPR.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127773964@N03/sets/72157652536729480/with/17127643174/
Once again the lack of 16xAF is obvious, I hope it can be forced in the driver panel...
Such an easy thing to implement, I wonder what's going on at CDPR.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
AF was missing in TW2 as well. May be an engine limitation.
the truth is that The Witcher is a threat for console, is, up to now the biggest game that will be out on all platform and sold millions of copies even on pc, so microsoft & sony know that can be compared real time not like GTA 1 year later, or like Cod that on pc sell 2 copies
i've no time to do it but here was a good gif one with geralt wearing a t shirt with PC image cutting a PS4 & a XBONE with the sword
i've no time to do it but here was a good gif one with geralt wearing a t shirt with PC image cutting a PS4 & a XBONE with the sword
If they increase the lod distance by...well a lot it would come a lot closer to that demo.Commented video comparison of final PC version at ultra vs. Gameplay Trailer - Gamestar.de (German)
PC version is at maxium with 7490k + GTX 980 without day 1 patch
short Summary:
View distance is (way) worse
less/no Tesselation (Pause at 3:11, edge of wall for example)
way worse sky
lower LOD
low res textures in final PC build compared to trailer
Insinde buildings way worse lightning
worse water, again no tesselation
and ofc. way worse fire
The commentator says the final PC-version is a lot closer to the PS4 version then the trailers of 2014 and theres no way that could be changed with a day 1 patch.
Game looks still good, but nowhere near what has been advertised in the gameplay trailers, so in my opinion downgrade confirmed once an for all.
PS: i wonder how long this Video will be online, considering PCGH had to take down their video.
PPS: im german, so dont be rude if you find any typos or grammar errors
The grass, every time.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Interesting. In the comparison video that you link, the textures look on par and in some cases actually better...
The sky at no point looks way worse. And neither does view distance. Unless you can pause the video and show me something distant rendered in the demo but not in the final code.
Also, we know tessellated water is in, you can see it in the settings.
Also I still think HBAO+ is not active in review builds, or glitched in some way. You can clearly see it in some footage, but not others.
Still, this is the best 1:1ish comparison I have seen so far. Well done.
Horse butt not as shiny. Druckmaaaan!
ISee
Member
Commented video comparison of final PC version at ultra vs. Gameplay Trailer - Gamestar.de (German)
PC version is at maxium with 7490k + GTX 980 without day 1 patch
short Summary:
View distance is (way) worse
less/no Tesselation (Pause at 3:11, edge of wall for example)
way worse sky
lower LOD
low res textures in final PC build compared to trailer
Insinde buildings way worse lightning
worse water, again no tesselation
and ofc. way worse fire
The commentator says the final PC-version is a lot closer to the PS4 version then the trailers of 2014 and theres no way that could be changed with a day 1 patch.
Game looks still good, but nowhere near what has been advertised in the gameplay trailers, so in my opinion downgrade confirmed once an for all.
PS: i wonder how long this Video will be online, considering PCGH had to take down their video.
PPS: im german, so dont be rude if you find any typos or grammar errors
+ interaction with water is way better in the trailer!
Despite the awfull compresion in the video, the differences are clear enough. Still, as they say, the game looks very good indeed.
Commented video comparison of final PC version at ultra vs. Gameplay Trailer - Gamestar.de (German)
PC version is at maxium with 7490k + GTX 980 without day 1 patch
short Summary:
View distance is (way) worse
less/no Tesselation (Pause at 3:11, edge of wall for example)
way worse sky
lower LOD
low res textures in final PC build compared to trailer
Insinde buildings way worse lightning
worse water, again no tesselation
and ofc. way worse fire
The commentator says the final PC-version is a lot closer to the PS4 version then the trailers of 2014 and theres no way that could be changed with a day 1 patch.
Game looks still good, but nowhere near what has been advertised in the gameplay trailers, so in my opinion downgrade confirmed once an for all.
PS: i wonder how long this Video will be online, considering PCGH had to take down their video.
PPS: im german, so dont be rude if you find any typos or grammar errors
The Gamestarvideo just shows me again how I really really DISLIKE the new Colors. Way too cartoony. I want the old colors back
I haven't posted in this thread yet, but I've been reading it carefully every day, since this is not only a topic I'm really interested in, but also a game that I'm incredibly hyped for.
Anyway, looking at those screens:
Downgrade or not, that doesn't look like a 2015 PC game at max settings. Frankly, it doesn't look very good at all. I'm casually replaying W2 right now, and it really does look a lot better than this at many spots. Yes, I know W2 isn't open world, but it was also released many years ago and ran on a graphics card with 1/8th the performance of the cards needed to run this.
I am very disappointed.
Edit:
Looking through some Shadows of Mordor screenshots right now (a game I really enjoyed and is much closer to "full" open world), and in my opinion it looks a lot better than W3 overall.
RenegadeXV8
Banned
Yep, the DX9 renderer in Witcher 2 didn't support parallax occlusion mapping and AF at the same time. If you forced AF in the driver you'd lose POM.
It could be forced but it only worked on some textures.
Commented video comparison of final PC version at ultra vs. Gameplay Trailer - Gamestar.de (German)
PC version is at maxium with 7490k + GTX 980 without day 1 patch
short Summary:
View distance is (way) worse
less/no Tesselation (Pause at 3:11, edge of wall for example)
way worse sky
lower LOD
low res textures in final PC build compared to trailer
Insinde buildings way worse lightning
worse water, again no tesselation
and ofc. way worse fire
The commentator says the final PC-version is a lot closer to the PS4 version then the trailers of 2014 and theres no way that could be changed with a day 1 patch.
Game looks still good, but nowhere near what has been advertised in the gameplay trailers, so in my opinion downgrade confirmed once an for all.
PS: i wonder how long this Video will be online, considering PCGH had to take down their video.
PPS: im german, so dont be rude if you find any typos or grammar errors
The most striking difference was definitely the interior scene. The lighting was just not good there. But yea, the change in grass remains still questionable though.
Edit:
I also wonder how much the draw distance can be influenced through the .ini files.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Not really. It is more noticeable in the trailer because the area/type of water has changed so much. But we still see those ripples from the trailer in current footage. Even on consoles.
The Cowboy
Member
I really hope the sky box change is due to season or random, the sky in the trailer is so much better than the final PC version.
Edit.
Just looked at the 155 picture link above, it does seem like the trailer sky (or at least close to it) is in the final game (yay).
Commented video comparison of final PC version at ultra vs. Gameplay Trailer - Gamestar.de (German)
PC version is at maxium with 7490k + GTX 980 without day 1 patch
short Summary:
View distance is (way) worse
less/no Tesselation (Pause at 3:11, edge of wall for example)
way worse sky
lower LOD
low res textures in final PC build compared to trailer
Insinde buildings way worse lightning
worse water, again no tesselation
and ofc. way worse fire
The commentator says the final PC-version is a lot closer to the PS4 version then the trailers of 2014 and theres no way that could be changed with a day 1 patch.
Game looks still good, but nowhere near what has been advertised in the gameplay trailers, so in my opinion downgrade confirmed once an for all.
PS: i wonder how long this Video will be online, considering PCGH had to take down their video.
PPS: im german, so dont be rude if you find any typos or grammar errors
I really wish the quality of the video was better. A lot of things just can't be determined at this quality level.
But many things can too, like the view distance (with detailed objects far away, such as snow covered mountains or buildings/towers), and the lower grass detail.
MAN, I'm annoyed now, how could that CDPR guy Fabian just the other day claim there are no real downgrades?! It's a huge difference!
That village on fire comparison is pure comedy.
The view distance is clearly shorter, just look at 1:54 and the mountains at the background. If its rendered is very unimportant if you can´t see it, wouldn´t you agree?
Sky does look worse with much less detail, maybee its the view distance again.
If there is any tesselation in the water i cant see it, but still its way worse then in the 2014 trailer.
I agree, if this is "it", I am disappointed from a technical standpoint. Hopefully its a great game to play
SURPRISE SURPRISE!!Commented video comparison of final PC version at ultra vs. Gameplay Trailer - Gamestar.de (German)
PC version is at maxium with 7490k + GTX 980 without day 1 patch
short Summary:
View distance is (way) worse
less/no Tesselation (Pause at 3:11, edge of wall for example)
way worse sky
lower LOD
low res textures in final PC build compared to trailer
Insinde buildings way worse lightning
worse water, again no tesselation
and ofc. way worse fire
The commentator says the final PC-version is a lot closer to the PS4 version then the trailers of 2014 and theres no way that could be changed with a day 1 patch.
Game looks still good, but nowhere near what has been advertised in the gameplay trailers, so in my opinion downgrade confirmed once an for all.
PS: i wonder how long this Video will be online, considering PCGH had to take down their video.
PPS: im german, so dont be rude if you find any typos or grammar errors
And what was the comparison I posted in the page before this?
See any difference between the screenshot on the left (PC) in the first comparison, and the screenshot on the bottom (PS4)?
Who was right...?
I was right...
SURPRISE SURPRISE!!
And what was the comparison I posted in the page before this?
See any difference between the screenshot on the left (PC) in the first comparison, and the screenshot on the bottom (PS4)?
Who was right...?
I was right...
And then the magic of a patch on release day happens
.
Well, most-likely nothing on release day will be able to change that... But the possibility exists, so still a LITTLE too early to draw conclusions
Dictator93
Member
The game never used tesselation for micro detail though. It is using frostbite like tesselation for terrain generation... not for mesh displacement. IF we are going to admit there was a downgrade, we might as well be accurate as to what actually happened.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Looks like here is the first example I have seen of near final code, HBAO+ On, Off. Or at least SSAO.
As I pointed out here, it seems to be disabled or glitched in many screens and footage....Including the comparison video we are now looking at.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=164165602&postcount=803
As I pointed out here, it seems to be disabled or glitched in many screens and footage....Including the comparison video we are now looking at.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=164165602&postcount=803
And then the magic of a patch on release day happensWell, most-likely nothing on release day will be able to change that... But the possibility exists, so still a LITTLE too early to draw conclusions
Oh please. I won't deny there's a chance for some improvements, but my money is on this being just a PR tactic.
Krusenstern
Banned
Commented video comparison of final PC version at ultra vs. Gameplay Trailer - Gamestar.de (German)
PC version is at maxium with 7490k + GTX 980 without day 1 patch
short Summary:
View distance is (way) worse
less/no Tesselation (Pause at 3:11, edge of wall for example)
way worse sky
lower LOD
low res textures in final PC build compared to trailer
Insinde buildings way worse lightning
worse water, again no tesselation
and ofc. way worse fire
The commentator says the final PC-version is a lot closer to the PS4 version then the trailers of 2014 and theres no way that could be changed with a day 1 patch.
Game looks still good, but nowhere near what has been advertised in the gameplay trailers, so in my opinion downgrade confirmed once an for all.
PS: i wonder how long this Video will be online, considering PCGH had to take down their video.
PPS: im german, so dont be rude if you find any typos or grammar errors
The downgrades are real. The fire looks especially bad. Like last-generation quality when compared to the early trailers.
At this point I wonder why developers even downgrade the PC versions of their games. Like, what's the reason for not keeping all of the cut effects in the PC version? I just never get it.
Onimusha78
Member
Shadow of Mordor is nowhere near as seamless as W3, nor as detailed. Not a helpful comparison imo.
I don't understand your comment about 2015 PC games at high settings, it looks like a 2015 PC game to me.
Maybe it makes development more complicated, or perhaps those effects require ressources which in their mind should be spent elsewhere.
There is also the possibility that they ran into budget limitations.
- Status