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Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else

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K

Kocolino67

Member
Totobeni said:
look at this, it's a UE4 demo running in real time on just one Titan X
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6EMc6eu3c8

I think Witcher 2013 is easy achievable on current PC GPUs and CPUs.
Click to expand...

woah, thanks, found this interesting making of: http://www.cgmeetup.net/home/making-of-unreal-engine-4-the-kite-demo/

Locuza said:
Thank God, they fixed the color palette a bit:
(The old save-files still work, so it's the same time of the day and everything else)

Preview-Version:
md7OHAU.jpg


Review-Version with Day-1-Patch:
JE91msi.jpg


Source PC Games Hardware technic check with benchmarks live-ticker:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-Witcher-3-PC-237266/Specials/Grafikkarten-Benchmarks-1159196/
Click to expand...

snip from the important part:
...fiehlen uns praktisch sofort ein deutlich verbessertes Level-of-Detail mit wesentlich weniger störend ins Auge fallendem Pop-Up sowie eine gefälligere Optik auf (?), vor allen dank nun besserer Verschattung und Ausleuchtung der Vegetation. Ein leichter Unschärfe-Effekt liegt nun bei einigen Wettersituationen über dem Horizont, die Schatten sind knackiger. Zudem zeigt sich die Wasserdarstellung nun dank Tessellation offenbar dynamischer, so reagiert sie nun auf Geralts Hexer-Zeichen und andere Einflüsse. Beim direkten Vergleich mit dem selben Savegame und zur gleichen Tageszeit und Wettersituation fällt außerdem das offensichtlich unterschiedliche Color Grading auf. Das Bild der Review-Fassung wirkt weniger bunt. Zwischen der Preview-Version und unserer Review-Fassung entspricht der optische Unterschied mindestens einer zusätzlichen Detailstufe, also etwa von "Sehr hoch" zu "Ultra".
Click to expand...

  • better LOD with less pop ups
  • better shadows and lighting on vegetation
  • some weather effects now have a slight blur at the horizon
  • again better shadows
  • water is now more dynamic because of tessellation - it reacts to Geralts magic signs and other influences
  • different color grading at the same time and weather when compared between pre and post patch
  • less colourful
  • they conclude that the graphical differences between both versions equals to another detail level, like from "very high" to "ultra"
 
D

Durante

Member
sofiabudapest said:
  • better LOD with less pop ups
  • better shadows and lighting on vegetation
  • some weather effects now have a slight blur at the horizon
  • again better shadows
  • water is now more dynamic because of tessellation - it reacts to Geralts magic signs and other influences
  • different color grading at the same time and weather when compared between pre and post patch
  • less colourful
  • they conclude that the graphical differences between both versions equals to another detail level, like from "very high" to "ultra"
Click to expand...
So actually, when CDPR said that the non-final builds don't include Ultra settings they were right.

Who'd have thought!
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
Fasty said:
I didn't say Skyrim looks better. I said the Witcher 3 doesn't look that much better than a late-gen ps3/360 game (which I then ammended to a decent pc port of a ps3/360 game). Do I really have to google image search a screenshot of Assassin's Creed or something to prove it to you? Fine.

Actual 360 screenshot of Black Flag.

PC port of last-gen game (Farcry 3)

Are you saying they look worse (resolution notwithstanding) than:
?



Agreed, Skyrim is pretty ugly, but still better than the examples that were thrown up. Here, have a screenshot of RIsen 3 for X360 (ignoring resolution)
risen3pic4.jpg




Cool, a game that I never had any interest in because of how bland it looked to me and a notoriously bad last-gen port. Awesome choices. And my original statement specifically said "apart from resolution", so those Red Dead screenshots are valid (thanks to whoever posted those btw).
Click to expand...

PC port of Farcry 3 was leagues ahead of the console version, pretty much a generation apart. The claim that Witcher 3 barely looks any different than a late PS360 game is bogus. Also AC games had absolutely flat lighting until Unity, that alone is enough to put Witcher 3 far far beyond any of the PS360 games. As for Red Dead, it is a very very empty world. It's the main reason why the game has large draw distance (larger than even GTA) because the world is extremely sparse.
 
H

Helznicht

Member
Locuza said:
Thank God, they fixed the color palette a bit:
(The old save-files still work, so it's the same time of the day and everything else)


Review-Version with Day-1-Patch:
JE91msi.jpg


Source PC Games Hardware technic check with benchmarks live-ticker:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-Witcher-3-PC-237266/Specials/Grafikkarten-Benchmarks-1159196/
Click to expand...

So ~40 fps with a 970 and gameworks and AA @ 1080p. I can dig it. ..... Wait do these tables say is you have an i7 cpu, hairworkx has no impact (less than a frame?)
 
E

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Sanctuary said:
Any idea if HairWorks is included in this?
Click to expand...

How come the 280X isn't in this graph? It's in the other one.
Edit: Oh, they haven't tested the 280x in the final build yet. Dumb me. Wonder how AMD drivers will change those numbers though. I would've thought a 285 would do better than dip to 25 FPS on Ultra? :(. But if the 970 averages around 40 with proper drivers then I guess the numbers add up.

High-Very High combo it is for me then.
 
T

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
gaming media
CyMxFMg.jpg


less than 10 hours till the game release and most gaming sites are still ignoring this.

TotalBiscuit just had another surgery so he'll unlikely to talk about it, but where are the rest like Jim Sterling, Kotaku,Vg247, Eurogamer and all the fine people and sites that covered Watch Dogs downgrade?
 
X

Xtyle

Member
alexandros said:
On fixed hardware platforms, yes. On an open and ever-evolving game platform like the PC there is zero reason to remove effects and features. Back in the day Doom 3 had an ultra quality level that was too heavy for all but the graphics cards with the most available VRAM. The menu displayed a warning that if you didn't own such a card you shouldn't use that quality setting. What's wrong with a solution like that?
Click to expand...

I have been lurking this thread since the beginning and I just find an urge to say something.

the game did seem better looking in the earlier media released. HOWEVER, it is rediculous that some (actually, most) of you villifly CDPR just because the game ends up looking different than what they shown in the past and different than your expectations. Who cares if their PR denied the downgrade and claimed the game would end up looking superior. PR is just that, PR. I have nothing but respect for the studio that worked hard to get us the game in its current shape (which, still looks amazing).

As for the suggestions that the game in PC could be higher in asset quality, etc, etc...I find that rediculous to complain about. Yes, they could have done that. But they didnt. But there is nothing wrong with that because in game development, budget and resources, and risk, are all factors that influence the outcome of the game. As said by some others before, it is NOT effecient to develop 2 seperated games at the sametime...the assets being different in PC version would mean a different game they would need to maintain and manage, and bug test and I bet you they couldn't.

I loved Witcher 2 on PC too. The people who upgraded their PC for the Witcher 3 could still have a much better performance out of the game (much higher FPS, resources, anti aliasing, etc) than their old hardware (be it GPU, or something else) could pump out.

It is as if they bought their upgrades, and are now regretting that decisions that they made them selves and are now blaming it on CDPR for it. That sound pretty crazy to me.
 
X

Xtyle

Member
Fasty said:
I didn't say Skyrim looks better. I said the Witcher 3 doesn't look that much better than a late-gen ps3/360 game (which I then ammended to a decent pc port of a ps3/360 game). Do I really have to google image search a screenshot of Assassin's Creed or something to prove it to you? Fine.

Actual 360 screenshot of Black Flag.

PC port of last-gen game (Farcry 3)

Are you saying they look worse (resolution notwithstanding) than:
?



Agreed, Skyrim is pretty ugly, but still better than the examples that were thrown up. Here, have a screenshot of RIsen 3 for X360 (ignoring resolution)
risen3pic4.jpg




Cool, a game that I never had any interest in because of how bland it looked to me and a notoriously bad last-gen port. Awesome choices. And my original statement specifically said "apart from resolution", so those Red Dead screenshots are valid (thanks to whoever posted those btw).
Click to expand...

Ignoring the visual quality of these games, their scale in no way is comparable to the Witcher 3 and that's an important factor to consider. Scale, and diversity means everything in this case.
 
O

Onimusha78

Member
Totobeni said:
gaming media
CyMxFMg.jpg


less than 10 hours till the game release and most gaming sites are still ignoring this.

TotalBiscuit just had another surgery so he'll unlikely to talk about it, but where are the rest like Jim Sterling, Kotaku,Vg247, Eurogamer and all the fine people and sites that covered Watch Dogs downgrade?
Click to expand...

Didn't help Ubisoft that they'd done it before and that Watch Dogs just wasn't very good :p
 
Jigolo

Jigolo

Member
Totobeni said:
gaming media
CyMxFMg.jpg


less than 10 hours till the game release and most gaming sites are still ignoring this.

TotalBiscuit just had another surgery so he'll unlikely to talk about it, but where are the rest like Jim Sterling, Kotaku,Vg247, Eurogamer and all the fine people and sites that covered Watch Dogs downgrade?
Click to expand...
yea it's pretty weird
 
C

chromatic9

Member
Totobeni said:
gaming media
CyMxFMg.jpg


less than 10 hours till the game release and most gaming sites are still ignoring this.

TotalBiscuit just had another surgery so he'll unlikely to talk about it, but where are the rest like Jim Sterling, Kotaku,Vg247, Eurogamer and all the fine people and sites that covered Watch Dogs downgrade?
Click to expand...

Watch Dogs blew peoples minds at E3 2012 and was huge news. Being GTA like helped as well. I shouldn't have to tell you how popular those games are.

I don't remember W3 causing a storm in 2013 or 2014. The game hasn't really been on most peoples radar until of late. Even the devs have said the game publicity has really grown rapidly.

The downgrade feels like a storm in a teacup against the wave of recent hype and reviews and lack of other console game out. It's like hey we have this new game, used to be a quirky PC title and now it open world like Skyrim and really accessible.
 
R

Red Hood

Banned
Totobeni said:
gaming media
CyMxFMg.jpg
Click to expand...

This is what I'm having most trouble with. It's already sad to say that downgrading is to be "expected" from big developers (probably to satisfy stakeholders or others with interest), so that's not even my biggest issue right now, but I do have an issue that CDPR is probably going to be given a free pass here. If anything they've shown there's no such thing as a prodigal son, which they've been labelled as pretty much non-stop due to their prior consumer-friendly practises and their GOG initiative, but now I'm having a hard time spotting any true and legit differences between Ubisoft and them. Both lie and both end versions look very little like their original "confirmed gameplay" footages.

In short: just fucking admit this downgrade is significant and get over with it. There's no justifying this type of lying and misleading in any way. That being said, I'll still be there at the GOG midnight launch, but I can't say my respect for CDPR has remained intact.
 
I

icecold1983

Member
BigTnaples said:
Holy shit. The Downgrade argument as been downgraded to hyperbolic shit like this?


Was the game downgraded? Yes, in some ways, no in others.


Does it look like a last gen port? Not even fucking close. The game is a generational leap over The Witcher 2.Lighting, Lip Syncing, Character Models, Animations, Draw Distance, Phyics, Water, Particle Effects, Shadows, Textures, Shaders/PBR, etc etc etc.

Even on XBO and PS4 Wild Hunt absolutely destroys Skyrim PC unmodded.

It's not even fair.
Click to expand...

i think the game was downgraded much more so than you, but clearly it looks better than ANY game on ps3/xb360. i do think black flag on pc looks better tho. skyrim is indeed a silly comparison

Durante said:
So actually, when CDPR said that the non-final builds don't include Ultra settings they were right.

Who'd have thought!
Click to expand...

the available screen comparisons show very little change. color changes, vignetting and some extra clumps of grass. the only meaningful difference over the ps4 versions is hairworks.
 
J

jaxpunk

Member
Red Hood said:
This is what I'm having most trouble with. It's already sad to say that downgrading is to be "expected" from big developers (probably to satisfy stakeholders or others with interest), so that's not even my biggest issue right now, but I do have an issue that CDPR is probably going to be given a free pass here. If anything they've shown there's no such thing as a prodigal son, which they've been labelled as pretty much non-stop due to their prior consumer-friendly practises and their GOG initiative, but now I'm having a hard time spotting any true and legit differences between Ubisoft and them. Both lie and both end versions look very little like their original "confirmed gameplay" footages.

In short: just fucking admit this downgrade is significant and get over with it. There's no justifying this type of lying and misleading in any way. That being said, I'll still be there at the GOG midnight launch, but I can't say my respect for CDPR has remained intact.
Click to expand...


Is this the thread version of that call of duty protest.jpg ?
 
P

pa22word

Member
Totobeni said:
gaming media
CyMxFMg.jpg


less than 10 hours till the game release and most gaming sites are still ignoring this.

TotalBiscuit just had another surgery so he'll unlikely to talk about it, but where are the rest like Jim Sterling, Kotaku,Vg247, Eurogamer and all the fine people and sites that covered Watch Dogs downgrade?
Click to expand...

You can replace the same thing with Dark Souls 2 and get the same result.

As long as you're a media and/or community darling you can basically do no wrong to the enthusiast press (because guess what--targets other than Call of Duty or Ubisoft actually take effort to tackle rather than firing a shotgun blast at the sky towards megapublishers who just shrug and go on with their day while you stand on your irrelevant soap box, pat yourself on the back, and pretend to be important!), which at the end of the day are really nothing but paid fanboys in the first place rather than any sort of accountability check on publishers.

Wasn't it brad shoemaker who basically told everyone to fuck off when people were wondering why in the hell no reviews even bothered to mention the fact that the game was massively downgraded in both mechanics and graphics from what Namco/FromSoft was showing less than a week before launch? Yeah....it was around then I pretty much quit bothering with reviews out of the press as anything other than something to smirk at when I see a text blurb on the back of a box.
 
H

H4r4kiri

Member
BigTnaples said:
Interesting! Can't say I minded the old color pallet tooo much. But this definitely looks closer to earlier iterations.
Click to expand...

viveks86 said:
I did. I kept posting that GIF to suggest to people that the preview build was borked. Nobody bought it because downgrade-ton
Click to expand...

So Glad they adjusted the Colors :)

BTW: This Thread has become pretty ridiculous the last 48 hours. I think I am out until viveks etc make us some nice Screenshots :)
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
Totobeni said:
gaming media
CyMxFMg.jpg


less than 10 hours till the game release and most gaming sites are still ignoring this.

TotalBiscuit just had another surgery so he'll unlikely to talk about it, but where are the rest like Jim Sterling, Kotaku,Vg247, Eurogamer and all the fine people and sites that covered Watch Dogs downgrade?
Click to expand...
Does everyone have the final PC build to review? I thought Jim was waiting for that. Good for them for waiting to see the full final PC build so they can analyze exactly what got changed and downgraded.
 
P

pa22word

Member
red731 said:
Look at all the people boycotting the game! True to their words!

http://i.imgur.com/y8W5bwW.png
Click to expand...

That image, while humorous at the time, is missing the forest for the trees.

Due to the change in handling of the PC versions of the games, CoD is basically dead on PC now while other shooters are thriving in its place--a place it willingly gave up.

Compare multiplayer population from MW2 on down, and you see a marked downward slope into the oblivion-esque state that it is in now, which is something anyone from the late early 2000s transported to today would gasp at because at one time CoD was one of the more premiere mainstay shooters on the PC.
 
P

PFD

Member
Totobeni said:
gaming media
CyMxFMg.jpg


less than 10 hours till the game release and most gaming sites are still ignoring this.

TotalBiscuit just had another surgery so he'll unlikely to talk about it, but where are the rest like Jim Sterling, Kotaku,Vg247, Eurogamer and all the fine people and sites that covered Watch Dogs downgrade?
Click to expand...

the game isn't even out yet, how do you expect people to be outraged?
 
D

dex3108

Member
orthodoxy1095 said:
Does everyone have the final PC build to review? I thought Jim was waiting for that. Good for them for waiting to see the full final PC build so they can analyze exactly what got changed and downgraded.
Click to expand...

Expecting that game will be different on release is hilarious. Yes there could be few tweaked things but there won't be magical patch or new version that will make game look like old version.
 
D

Dinjoralo

Member
sofiabudapest said:
snip from the important part:
  • better LOD with less pop ups
  • better shadows and lighting on vegetation
  • some weather effects now have a slight blur at the horizon
  • again better shadows
  • water is now more dynamic because of tessellation - it reacts to Geralts magic signs and other influences
  • different color grading at the same time and weather when compared between pre and post patch
  • less colourful
  • they conclude that the graphical differences between both versions equals to another detail level, like from "very high" to "ultra"
Click to expand...

...Huh. So there were graphical goodies in the day-one patch. How bizarre.
 
G

Gattsu25

Banned
CyberPunked said:
Did some colour correction. Game will certainly looks a lot better with a SweetFX

Original:
GMMbgxw.jpg


Colour Corrected:
N46KzSz.jpg
Click to expand...

No, if you want it to look closer to the 2013 footage you will need to color correct it some more until the grass is more blue than green and then add a large lavender lense flare

I mean, this is the ultimate goal, right?
yttr.gif
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
dex3108 said:
Expecting that game will be different on release is hilarious. Yes there could be few tweaked things but there won't be magical patch or new version that will make game look like old version.
Click to expand...
I didn't say that the game would be different did I? I never suggested that it would look like 2013 suddenly. I said they need the final build so they can actually analyze it themselves. What are they supposed to do? Talk about what we've found via screenshots and gifs? No. They need to see the build themselves so they can actually go through it. As an example, Jim hasn't really talked about it probably because he hasn't even done a review of it yet. So I don't see what the big deal is with waiting until outlets actually have a PC copy.
 
D

dex3108

Member
orthodoxy1095 said:
I didn't say that the game would be different did I? I said they need the final build so they can actually analyze it themselves. What are they supposed to do? Talk about what we've found via screenshots and gifs? No. They need to see the build themselves so they can actually go through it.
Click to expand...

For start PC oriented media could start talking about lack of PC review copies. :D
 
R

Red Hood

Banned
red731 said:
Look at all the people boycotting the game! True to their words!

http://i.imgur.com/y8W5bwW.png
Click to expand...

Lol that's a great pic, but yeah no I didn't say I'd boycott The Witcher 3. Never did. I'm just a critical thinker. All I meant to say is that I just don't like these double standards where both companies essentially do the exact same thing while the one is eaten alive and the other is still regarded as the prodigal son and saviour of (PC or in general) gaming.

I just want people to be consistent and lose the hypocrisy.
 
Jigolo

Jigolo

Member
It's funny people are mentioning the final PC build before allowing the media to do what it does best. Poor Watch_Dogs though, no one waited for the final build before the headlines started popping up everywhere.
 
F

Fasty

Member
BigTnaples said:
Holy shit. The Downgrade argument as been downgraded to hyperbolic shit like this?


Was the game downgraded? Yes, in some ways, no in others.


Does it look like a last gen port? Not even fucking close. The game is a generational leap over The Witcher 2.Lighting, Lip Syncing, Character Models, Animations, Draw Distance, Phyics, Water, Particle Effects, Shadows, Textures, Shaders/PBR, etc etc etc.

Even on XBO and PS4 Wild Hunt absolutely destroys Skyrim PC unmodded.

It's not even fair.
Click to expand...

Current-gen and last-gen animation comparison:

vM51db.gif

y732B8.gif


And Next-Gen Lip Syncing. You heard it here first.
Dat "downgrade hyperbole".
 
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