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What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources 2.0

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Oh, but there is. It creates positivity and continuous hype that builds up to the event.

Sure, there could be also just one huge blow up of info, but I kind of doubt Nintendo will reserve any kind of time in their event to western multiplats.

How is announcing games but not showing them or the hardware they're supposed to run on for months on end supposed to generate anything but negativity and people whining about stuff being announced too early or with nothing to show? Or are we really supposed to think the obligatory CGI announcement trailer is supposed to hold someone over until 2017?
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
How is announcing games but not showing them or the hardware they're supposed to run on for months on end supposed to generate anything but negativity and people whining about stuff being announced too early or with nothing to show?

So if, let's say, Bioware announces the new Star Wars game and at the end of the trailer there is also an NX version listed your theory is that this would generate negativity?

Or at the end of the trailer for Dishonored 2. Or god forbid, in the final trailer for FF XV. How we will handle that outrage and negativity?
 
How is announcing games but not showing them or the hardware they're supposed to run on for months on end supposed to generate anything but negativity and people whining about stuff being announced too early or with nothing to show? Or are we really supposed to think the obligatory CGI announcement trailer is supposed to hold someone over until 2017?

How is it negative? If the consumers seems "Mass Effect Andromeda is coming to PS4, X1 and NX", then that creates some good hype for NX...

A lot of people don't have faith in Nintendo getting third party. Seeing multiplat games like FFVIIR saying it's also coming to NX would create some very nice hype since Nintendo hasn't had a FF main title in forever.

And from E3 people will be more hyped about NX leading to when Nintendo wants to reveal the NX and show off all of their first party titles coming to the system.
 

Peterc

Member
Nintendo New York Holding Private Event May 5th


Whilst this could be absolutely nothing at all, Nintendo NY on Twitter has revealed that they’re closing the second floor until 1pm on May 5th due to a private event. This could be for all manner of things but as always speculation is focussing on the Nintendo NX. If any information leaks then we shall be sure to let you know what this private event actually

On 5/5, the second floor will be closed until 1PM due to a private event at #NintendoNYC.
11:55 PM - 3 May 2016

https://mynintendonews.com/2016/05/04/nintendo-new-york-holding-private-event-may-5th/

Could it be e3 info or even nx info?
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
I wouldn't say that, but I'm not expecting their next system to be a multiplat haven.
Would you welcome information that no western studios are working on multiplats for NX?

Just to be clear, I don't have high hopes for it. And it's not a showstopper for me if the rest of the package is great. But wouldn't be nice if our expectations would be overturned? That's why I'm saying that even some 2-3 announcements could actually create quite a positive buzz, I'm sure.

On the other hand, I'm quite convinced that NX can't be very successful without 3rd parties, so that's also a thing to consider.
 

ozfunghi

Member
Trev/SuperMetalDave64 made a new speculation video on why a Polaris chipset for NX makes logical sense.

Also goes through how it could have much better performance than PS4 despite the specs not being that much better.

Is this Trev? Didn't know that it was the same guy.

The only interesting part in this video is that he asked the guy quoting "industry leading chips" and his respons was that he saw a demo of something that -at the time- would only be possible to run on a high-end PC. And i think this info was already shared last year?

All the rest is just why it would make sense, to include Polaris, speculation.

EDIT: wasn't Digital Foundry speculating Polaris to be in PS4K? Because he (SMD64) is assuming it won't.
 
Is this Trev? Didn't know that it was the same guy.

The only interesting part in this video is that he asked the guy quoting "industry leading chips" and his respons was that he saw a demo of something that -at the time- would only be possible to run on a high-end PC. And i think this info was already shared last year?

All the rest is just why it would make sense, to include Polaris, speculation.

EDIT: wasn't Digital Foundry speculating Polaris to be in PS4K? Because he (SMD64) is assuming it won't.

Yes, he is Trev.
 
Letting third parties announce an NX version of multiplat games is nothing but positive for Nintendo. I actually think they are planning for that at E3- we already saw Koei Tecmno announce specifically that they're working on NX games, so I would think that means that third parties have the OK to mention the console.

Let's not call Nintendo stupid for not letting it happen before we know whether or not it will happen.

We can call them stupid later when it doesn't happen
 

Datschge

Member
Hell no. I'm thinking about this from a business perspective.
From a business perspective you want to reduce the failure rate and (internal) repair cost for your products which directly affect the return rate. Adding new moving parts to the systems, especially one as prone to failure (at best due to age) as HDDs is running in the contrary direction. It would render moving from optical drives to carts, if that happens, essentially worthless from an overall system failure rate point of view.
 

ozfunghi

Member
From a business perspective you want to reduce the failure rate and (internal) repair cost for your products which directly affect the return rate. Adding new moving parts to the systems, especially one as prone to failure (at best due to age) as HDDs is running in the contrary direction. It would render moving from optical drives to carts, if that happens, essentially worthless from an overall system failure rate point of view.

All of these arguments have been raised before. Some people just don't want to get it and are adamant in their belief. As the past two pages have shown, it's futile to argue with.
 

Eradicate

Member
I looked into Panasonic for a while this morning and came up empty. Panasonic and Nintendo do appear to still maintain a good working relationship (especially with that Nintendo area with Wii Us and 3DSs in the Panasonic Center building in Tokyo), but I can't find any further press releases or information regarding future work together.

The most I could find is from an Iwata Asks for the Wii U Fit Meter. For whatever aggravating reason, I can't load the English version! But, in the Japanese one, there is a passage where they mention the Gamecube, and it goes like this:

岩田

ああ、そこから話がつながるんですね。
パナソニックさんとは以前、
ゲームキューブ(※8)をつくったときに
光ディスクの技術でいろいろとお世話になりました。
いまも継続的におつき合いいただいている会社ですが、
遠山さん、最初はどのように話がきたんですか?

※8
ゲームキューブ=ニンテンドーゲームキューブ。2001年9月発売の家庭用テレビゲーム機。

Google translated:

Iwata

Oh, it's leading the story from there. Previous Panasonic's and is now taken care of a lot in the optical disk of the technology when it made the GameCube (※ 8). Is also a company that has our relationship you continuously now, Mr. Toyama, whether at first I came how the story is?

※ 8
GameCube = Nintendo GameCube. September home video game console released in 2001.

Found here: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/wiiu/interview/astj/vol1/

It'd be easier if the English version could be loaded up! But, is he saying that "previously Nintendo used Panasonic for optical disk technology" or what? Again, if someone can load the English one, it'd be appreciated, but that's about the newest Panasonic/Nintendo relationship source I can find!

According to that last press release look like I was right. Give me my cookies

cookie-stealing-bunny.gif


Something me and XANDERCAGE talked about many months back on how the medium might be able to continue with physical discs/carts as we go more and more towards digital. Give more deals, pack in some stuff and make them look very aesthetically pleasing.

It is kind of crummy that most discs and things anymore don't have anything in their box. It'd be great if they could include, say, amiibo cards, graphic prints, manuals again (!!!), and things like that.

Nah, I am not translating so people can put my translation into their articles. I hope the writer at least notify me before posting.

I was just being cheeky. I agree that it's not right to go around doing that and "thanking" you when they never even bothered talking or asking about it. It's something that happens too much.

Now, there are more and more articles about the information coming out, most of them not bothering to cite anything whatsoever! The bulk of them are just incorrect too. Craziness.

I don't really have faith in Nintendo when it comes to marketing lol.

LOL!!! That's a good point!

Nintendo used to use a real high-class advertising/marketing agency...Leo Burnett I think? I think they ended their relationship soon after Wii came out (I think?). Sadly, it kind of shows. Do they do everything all in-house now?

I think one of the best things Nintendo could do to bolster the NX would be to offer VC titles as included with an online subscription service. But I don't know if the economics of that make sense for them.

It's definitely an area where they could possibly do a subscription model without charging for online or anything. I was wondering if they might not allow you to purchase/own the VC outright like normal, but also have a $5 a month VC all-access pass with discounts to purchase games you really liked?

If/when they do something subscription-based, I can't really think of any other ideas? (Hopefully not to play online!!!)

Letting third parties announce an NX version of multiplat games is nothing but positive for Nintendo. I actually think they are planning for that at E3- we already saw Koei Tecmno announce specifically that they're working on NX games, so I would think that means that third parties have the OK to mention the console.

Let's not call Nintendo stupid for not letting it happen before we know whether or not it will happen.

We can call them stupid later when it doesn't happen

At the least, it would be nice enough to know companies are making games for the system, even if they don't say what the games are. I do like the idea of having a hot new game trailer flashing consoles at the end just to show "Nintendo" at the end though! Just once or twice with some high-profile games to get people talking.
 

Peterc

Member
What i don't get is that they want their end their wiiu production, in 2018. But at the same time they are saying that nx would not be an wiiu replacement.
 
What i don't get is that they want their end their wiiu production, in 2018. But at the same time they are saying that nx would not be an wiiu replacement.
They are just trying to keep people buying Wii U's, it's very obviously a Wii U replacement.
 
Letting third parties announce an NX version of multiplat games is nothing but positive for Nintendo. I actually think they are planning for that at E3- we already saw Koei Tecmno announce specifically that they're working on NX games, so I would think that means that third parties have the OK to mention the console.

Let's not call Nintendo stupid for not letting it happen before we know whether or not it will happen.

We can call them stupid later when it doesn't happen
Well, they would be stupid to allow that, as it would take away from the hype and excitement when they are all announced at once at the console's reveal.
 
What i don't get is that they want their end their wiiu production, in 2018. But at the same time they are saying that nx would not be an wiiu replacement.

Console makers always say that shit. PS2 will have a 10-year life cycle, Xbox 360 will continue to be supported for those without internet access, Nintendo DS will be the third pillar to the Gamecube/Gameboy. It's just pandering to the established install base.

It'll be interesting to find out what this thing is exactly. I can't imagine it will strictly be another console, there's plenty of those already. It also can't be too similar to established platforms because, why bother, but also can't be too different as to dissuade developers to develop for it.

I'm really starting to think mobile platforms will be an integral part of Nintendo's NX strategy, tapping into established devices rather than convincing players to buy yet another expensive gadget in a crowded marketplace and making the NX "console" the optional hub.
 

LewieP

Member
Maybe Panasonic could make an NQ. A version of NX with an additional Blu Ray drive, and support for Blu Ray movies.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
They can just make the boxes as big as the PS4 cases (which are smaller than standard DVD cases anyway, so I'm not sure if I agree with your point to begin with).

I don't think Nintendo has to worry about this at all. Like yeah, it would look bad if the games came in flimsy Vita boxes. But I don't think thats going to happen.

They need to make the boxes small to recoup some of the extra cost from the cards.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
From a business perspective you want to reduce the failure rate and (internal) repair cost for your products which directly affect the return rate. Adding new moving parts to the systems, especially one as prone to failure (at best due to age) as HDDs is running in the contrary direction. It would render moving from optical drives to carts, if that happens, essentially worthless from an overall system failure rate point of view.

Show me PS4 and Xbone failure rates then. They much be HUGE, with two whole moving parts and all.

This is a stupid argument. It's just so dumb that I can't believe that someon would seriously make it.
 
Console makers always say that shit. PS2 will have a 10-year life cycle, Xbox 360 will continue to be supported for those without internet access, Nintendo DS will be the third pillar to the Gamecube/Gameboy. It's just pandering to the established install base.
DS was a different situation - they called it a third pillar because they thought people might HATE the idea of dual screens / touchscreen controls. By calling it a third pillar they were leaving open the possibility of releasing a single-screened followup to the GBA if DS sales sucked, without people complaining that their DS got replaced after just a year or two (because GBA II wouldn't be in the same category as DS).

Admittedly, that might be what they are doing this time with the NX too...
 

tr1p1ex

Member
What i don't get is that they want their end their wiiu production, in 2018. But at the same time they are saying that nx would not be an wiiu replacement.

What they mean is the NX isn't a Wii U 2.0. Just like the DS wasn't a Gameboy Advance 2.0.
 

Eradicate

Member
It'll be interesting to find out what this thing is exactly. I can't imagine it will strictly be another console, there's plenty of those already. It also can't be too similar to established platforms because, why bother, but also can't be too different as to dissuade developers to develop for it.

I'm really starting to think mobile platforms will be an integral part of Nintendo's NX strategy, tapping into established devices rather than convincing players to buy yet another expensive gadget in a crowded marketplace and making the NX "console" the optional hub.

Well, what's interesting is that by going back to the OPs original sources (we ARE still on topic!), number 7 and 12 both hint at two interesting things. First, it's "hardware." It's NOT like a handheld or like a console since it is not their successor. (Could also mean "in the same vein as the previous hardware," meaning no 4DS or Wii U 2. But, I don't think that's entirely it!) Now, surely it will be in ways like one and/or the other, but it will likely be a combination of the two (hybrid) or unlike either in it's approach (?!). If it is unlike either, well...what if they do have a way to leverage extra devices for added value to the NX? If so, mobile is a good choice. This ties in with number 12. So, second, they care about "how" a game is being played after purchase. BOTH game and hardware activity are important to them now as well. It was also said this is similar to them for both dedicated video game systems to them and to smart devices.

With the last statement in particular, there has to be an "ease" to being able to play a game possibly wherever you are. They want increased gaming activity. I believe that increased activity can be side games or similar IPs (great for smartphones!) and not just the actual game since it's added value. That would provide extra chances for the games to get played and interacted with. The actual game may only be found on the NX, however. How they expect THAT to get played more often (without being a hybrid type of thing) I have no idea. Lots of possibilities here!

Maybe Panasonic could make an NQ. A version of NX with an additional Blu Ray drive, and support for Blu Ray movies.

That would be incredible! It would have to be silver as well!

They need to make the boxes small to recoup some of the extra cost from the cards.

Yep! A lot of the cost savings (logistically, and savings from buying less retail space, though that avenue of money is different) come from smaller boxes where you're able to fit more into a box. If a truck can hold 50 boxes regardless of weight and you have BDs (say 100 a box) vs. cartridge boxes (say 250 a box) cartridges are cheaper to ship. (A lot more goes into it than that, but just generalizing!)

I do think cartridges are a possibility, but nothing is yet off the table at this point until Nintendo reveals it! There are pros and cons to about any solution right now.
 
Well, they would be stupid to allow that, as it would take away from the hype and excitement when they are all announced at once at the console's reveal.

I suppose that's one way of looking at it, but I tend to disagree. Seeing PS4/XBONE/PC at the end of the first reveal trailer makes the first impression appear like Nintendo is once again being left out, and first impressions are obviously quite important.

I think announcing exclusives at the console's reveal makes more sense, and letting the third parties announce the games for their platform at E3 really doesn't diminish the announcement of the exclusives.

Also as Eradicate said, maybe another alternative is just letting the third parties mention they have games in development for NX, without specifically announcing which games. Like what Koei Tecmo did. That could work as well.
 

Eradicate

Member
I think it's kind of fun getting teases like "EA is publishing 5 games for the Nintendo NX!" Usually people end up being jerks about it and joking, but it does breed a certain excitement to the whole thing trying to figure out what it could be.

Oh, also:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/05/05/rumour-nintendo-nx-to-drop-discs-for-cartridges

Way to go IGN! I sure hope you asked for permission first as an upstanding journalistic website! Don't quote me on the EA publishing games for NX either...though I know you never would!

(Also, LOL at Screen Junkies reporting it first!)
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
SNES games not having cross-buy between Wii U and New Nintendo 3DS makes me worry about Wii U/Nintendo 3DS to NX Virtual Console transferability. We have Nintendo Network IDs and Nintendo Accounts - heck, even the web eShop page is the same for both platforms! - so it's definitely not a matter of infrastructure but rather a matter of Nintendo's unwillingness.

On the other hand, NoE's handling of Wii U and (especially) New Nintendo 3DS Virtual Console gives me hope for complete no-50 Hz future.

It's also possibly a matter of development. Nintendo has to "emulate" and test the VC games twice because it has to create a different wrapper for the Wii U and 3DS. That essentially means it has to go through the dev costs of doing VC games again for 3DS. That's probably the biggest reason it charges twice. Sony probably only charges once because it's mainly just dumping the same ISOs into umbrella emulators it's built for each system. PS2 games on PS4 are the exception.

I'm just saying that with the NX as a shared platform, Nintendo should now only have to go through the "development" of each VC game only once.
 

AgeEighty

Member
What i don't get is that they want their end their wiiu production, in 2018. But at the same time they are saying that nx would not be an wiiu replacement.

Kimishima said it's not merely a replacement for the Wii U (or 3DS), didn't he? That's different from saying it's not one.
 

Sugiyama says that while searching for someone in house who knew how to create the FitMeter the hardware team pointed him towards Panasonic. Previously Panasonic helped them out with the gamecube's OD (it does not elaborate). They have continued to work together since then. Then the rest of the text on that page goes into how they went to Panasonics offices in Osaka and each side was nervous because of their preconceptions of the other side.

Not much to help, sorry.
 
Nah.

Games that are cross-platform will almost certainly be pretty much handheld games that can be played in an enhanced way on the console. Higher resolution, better framerate, and probably enhanced assets for some of them. Nintendo wouldn't be above locking certain gameplay features to the console. I don't think any developer is gonna go through designing a game for modern consoles and then tearing it all the way down so it can be played on a handheld that'll probably have performance somewhere north of the Vita.

Effectively what you're looking at is the difference between, I don't know, the Vita version of God Eater Resurrection and the PS4 version of God Eater Resurrection except they'll hopefully be combined into one SKU that you buy once.
I imagine at best we'd get a Smash Bros 4 situation. Features like more stages that can't run on the portable, 8 players, better visuals, more console centric modes, etc
But it would be worth looking into the features I mentioned. Wouldn't require creating different art assets and it could create more value for the console release.
And yeah, Cross buy is something they really need here
I think one of the best things Nintendo could do to bolster the NX would be to offer VC titles as included with an online subscription service. But I don't know if the economics of that make sense for them.
VC games made their money already and would require little after the fixed cost that is creating the emulator. Would be somewhat smart to include a VC for people to try every month alongside a new NX title.
Either that or allow access to most VC titles with a subscription like EA access
 
I think it's kind of fun getting teases like "EA is publishing 5 games for the Nintendo NX!" Usually people end up being jerks about it and joking, but it does breed a certain excitement to the whole thing trying to figure out what it could be.
That happened with 3DS. And you know what happened? Most of those games got canceled before the titles were even announced. That hurt the device much more than if the games had never been announced in the first place.
 

thefro

Member
Didn't get to listen to the Activision call, but I don't think there was any Nintendo/NX question asked judging from twitter.

However, Gamestop's CEO did comment about the NX


alistdaily said:
Are you seeing excitement through PowerUp Rewards members around the Nintendo NX?

There is some excitement around NX. Lately here, we’ve been hearing a lot more buzz than we have in the past. Nintendo is interesting in that they really are able to keep things as quiet as they can for a while. And then they just lost their leader, so they’ve gone through a mourning period and so forth. NX sounds exciting. We’re looking forward to it. They’re very innovative in everything that they do. I hope that they come out with something exciting and innovative. I think we’ll be dominant distributor of that platform.

alistdaily said:
That fan base is going to potentially get bigger with their mobile reach. Do you think Nintendo mobile games will get new fans interested in other Nintendo products?

Yeah, there are a lot of people who have never played a Super Mario game on a DS. A lot of the kids today have grown up only playing small games on their phones. As you introduce that exciting Nintendo IP and those characters, they’re going to want more of that. We think that will push them into our stores to see the big games. They’ll go, “Wow, there’s actually a game I can play for months and months instead of a few days.” That will be good for us. It will be very good for Nintendo, and we’re very positive on it.
 

Thraktor

Member
With the various quotes pointing to a shared architecture/shared library, it's pretty safe to assume that they're aiming for that to be implemented with the NX, right?
If you're Nintendo, how would you increase the value of games that are based off of portable hardware?
The power gap should be pretty considerate if we accept the LCGeek rumor of (at least the CPU) being more powerful than the PS4.
I imagine 1080p/60fps for the basic release if Nintendo is serious about this is the minimum they should strive for, but is that enough?
Best case scenario a dev makes a high spec game and then lowers the graphics settings on the portable version while turning on some advanced graphical settings on the console. I believe Xenoblade X had some features turned off to run as well as it did. Building the games with both systems in mind could lead to uncompressed textures and higher poly models as well, but not all games will do that.
2 ideas I had in mind were VR enhanced games and 4K.
VR:
If VR becomes a big hit Nintendo will likely not want to get left behind for a generation. On PS4 it's unlikely to see big AAA multiplatform games being VR compatible, at least not on the normal PS4.
A lot of VR games on it look rather rough due to having to render two screens at 60fps+ locked.
If you take games that, on a technical level, are around early 360 games it should be fairly doable.
4K:
Same principle, running a game in 4K requires very powerful hardware or low spec games. 1080p 3DS games look very good:

And despite looking rather simple, a strong art style and a clear image could work wonders.
Both are strong buzz words especially going into 2017 and onwards. Having the most VR compatible games or the most games running at 4K could create a lot of positive buzz despite just being portable games on a console.

The idea of targeting 4K on the home console is an appealing idea to solve the problem of developing cross-device games that run on both handheld and home console while putting out a home console which is competitive with the competition. Doing so doesn't necessarily mean that they have to be "portable games on a console", though (which is an assumption I see come up a lot about cross-play games on NX, regardless of resolutions). A game which is developed side-by-side for a 540p (let's say) handheld and a 4K console should be able to utilise high poly-count assets with high-res textures on the home console, and simply scale down those assets for the handheld. Rendering handheld games at high resolution (like your 3D Land shot) tends to highlight the low asset quality, but this shouldn't be an issue for a game developed with both targets in mind.

You will have to get by with relatively simple pixel shaders (or more accurately less computationally expensive pixel shaders) due to the sheer number of pixels you're pushing to the screen. The effect of this will vary a bit depending on the aesthetic of the game. For a game that strives towards realistic graphics, pushing half a billion pixels a second to achieve 4K/60fps is going to seriously hinder the ability to compete with the likes of Uncharted and Assassin's Creed, but for Nintendo games it might not be that harmful.

Let's consider a situation where Nintendo releases a 540p handheld with a 128 Gflop AMD GPU which we'll call NX Portable and a home console with a 2048 Gflop AMD GPU we'll call NX Home. We'll forget about RAM and so forth for the moment. Now, let's say that Nintendo primarily groups the games being made into two categories: games which are developed to run on both devices (e.g. Mario, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Mario Kart, etc.) and games which are developed to run just on the home console (e.g. Xenoblade Y, Metroid Prime 4: The Reprimening, most western 3rd party games, etc.). For the first group, there's a neat x16 relationship between the GPU ALU performance of the two machines, so assuming the other aspects of NX Home's design can handle it, they can run at 540p on NX Portable and 4K on NX Home. The game logic will have to be limited to what can run on the handheld CPU (as that's not going to scale with resolution), but for these kinds of games it shouldn't be a big issue, and going by Blu's benchmarks, even a lowly quad-core 800MHz A53 cluster would still outperform Wii U's CPU by about 35%. For the second group of titles, they can run at 1080p on NX Home and take quite a bit more time on each pixel, as well as make full use of the home console's CPU.

Where does that put the first group of games in terms of graphics on the NX Home? They shouldn't be inherently limited compared to the second group when it comes to asset quality (although may have to use simpler texture filtering), but obviously will have to use simpler lighting and shading techniques to run through those pixels quickly. Assuming Nintendo wants to keep putting out games which run at 60fps, they need to push 497,664,000 pixels through their shaders per second to do so at 4K, and with a 2048 Gflops GPU this gives them 2,058 operations per pixel to work with (taking FMA as one op, and of course this isn't going to be purely dedicated to pixel shaders, but I just want to keep the comparisons simple here). NX Mobile, pushing 31,104,000 pixels per second through a 128 Gflops GPU will also have 2,058 ops/pixel to work its magic with, so should be able to use precisely the same shader code as its big brother.

To put this in perspective let's first look at Wii U. The RV700-era GPU used in the Wii U is about 6 years older than the GCN 1.2-era GPU that we'll assume is used in NX (or 8 years older than a Polaris-era GPU, however unlikely that may be). So, a Wii U flop is definitely not equal to an NX flop. The newer GPU will have a more advanced shader ISA allowing it to do more useful things in fewer cycles, and the components like the thread scheduler will have been substantially upgraded to allow developers to get as close as possible to fully utilising the computational power available. That all being said, if we want to say how these games will look in comparison to Wii U games, it's helpful to have some kind of numerical data to work with, even if we can't make a like-for-like evaluation.

With 176 Gflops of GPU grunt, Nintendo has been able to dedicate the following amount of processing power to each pixel in various Wii U games:

1080p/60fps: 708 ops/pixel (Smash Bros)
720p+480p/60fps: 1,102 ops/pixel (El Capitan Todd, Nintendoland)
720p/60fps: 1,592 ops/pixel (3D World, Mario Kart 8, Tropical Freeze, Splatoon, etc.)
720p/30fps: 3,183 ops/pixel (Xenoblade, Zelda?)

And to compare it to a handful of PS4 and XBO games (where you should be able to make a much more like-for like comparison):

Forza Motorsport 6 (1080p/60fps, XBO): 5,265 ops/pixel
Killzone : Shadow Fall (1080p/60fps, PS4): 7,406 ops/pixel
SW: Battlefront (900p/60fps, PS4): 10,666 ops/pixel
SW: Battlefront (720p/60fps, XBO): 11,846 ops/pixel
Uncharted 4 (1080p/30fps, PS4): 14,813 ops/pixel
Assassin's Creed: Syndicate (900p/30fps, XBO): 15,162 ops/pixel
Assassin's Creed: Syndicate (900p/30fps, PS4): 21,331 ops/pixel

So, you're obviously not going to be getting games which look like Uncharted or Assassin's Creed at 4K/60fps (duh!), but there's a big range there, and at 4K/30fps you'd be pretty close to pulling off the kind of shading you get in Forza 6.

It is worth considering, though, how valuable this kind of per-pixel computational grunt is to games like Mario and Animal Crossing versus the huge leap of image quality that you get when moving to 4K. As an example, Digital Foundry claims that Captain Toad "feels almost pre-rendered at points", despite it releasing in an era of games which have almost 20 times the computational resources to dedicate to each pixel. This isn't to say that Nintendo couldn't improve on this with more sophisticated pixel shaders, but most Nintendo games don't need, say, physically based material shaders to achieve the Pixar-like look they're going for, while for a game like Battlefront these more computationally intensive shaders are vital to achieving such realistic graphics. At the same time, the colourful, high-contrast worlds that many Nintendo games inhabit can really benefit from the crispness of a 4K image.

Take a look at Captain Toad:

el-capitan-todd-saves-the-world.jpg


Now, take a game which looks that good, give it a generational leap in polygon count and a generational leap in texture detail. Then give it whatever improvements in shading Nintendo can gain from a 6 years of GPU architecture advances and around twice the raw computational grunt per pixel. Then, render it at 4K resolution at a super-smooth 60fps. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be extremely happy if those are the kinds of games NX Home would be able to produce, and I certainly wouldn't consider it a "low-spec game". Of course, games like Xenoblade would look over-stretched attempting to run at such resolutions, but at 1080p/30fps they would have the resources available to compete with the likes of Uncharted 4 when necessary.

As I said above, the idea of a 540p handheld/4K console is appealing, but I skipped by quite a bit when I said "assuming the other aspects of NX Home's design can handle it". Running games at 4K isn't simply a matter of being able to run pixel shaders for half a billion pixels a second, but many other potential bottlenecks need to be removed, the chief of which is RAM bandwidth. RAM bandwidth usage is one of those things that scales pretty much linearly with resolution; if your buffer is four times the size you'll need to use four times the bandwidth to access it, all other things being equal. For a 4K framebuffer you have to evict every 16ms, that bandwidth becomes pretty crazy, and when you add in the intermediate buffers used in deferred rendering, which Nintendo now seems to favour, the bandwidth required becomes downright insane, even if the operations you're performing on all those buffers are very simple.

You'd probably be looking at a case where Nintendo would need to use 4GB+ of HBM or 8GB+ of GDDR5X on an extremely wide bus to be able to accommodate games running at 4K/60fps. And that's where the problem with the plan comes in. I can see Nintendo releasing a ~2 Tflop NX Home. It's above my personal expectations, but within the realm of possibility. I could also see Nintendo going with maybe 1-2GB of HBM1 as a replacement for eDRAM with a less powerful console, as a more outside chance. The chances of Nintendo releasing a 2+ Tflop console with either 4GB+ of HBM or 8GB of top-of-the-line GDDR5X on a 256+ bit bus stretches somewhat beyond the bounds of credibility for me, though. I'd love it to be the case, and it would be a nice way for Nintendo to have their cake and eat it when it comes to cross play and competing with MS and Sony, but I just don't see it happening.
 

Astral Dog

Member
The idea of targeting 4K on the home console is an appealing idea to solve the problem of developing cross-device games that run on both handheld and home console while putting out a home console which is competitive with the competition. Doing so doesn't necessarily mean that they have to be "portable games on a console", though (which is an assumption I see come up a lot about cross-play games on NX, regardless of resolutions). A game which is developed side-by-side for a 540p (let's say) handheld and a 4K console should be able to utilise high poly-count assets with high-res textures on the home console, and simply scale down those assets for the handheld. Rendering handheld games at high resolution (like your 3D Land shot) tends to highlight the low asset quality, but this shouldn't be an issue for a game developed with both targets in mind.

You will have to get by with relatively simple pixel shaders (or more accurately less computationally expensive pixel shaders) due to the sheer number of pixels you're pushing to the screen. The effect of this will vary a bit depending on the aesthetic of the game. For a game that strives towards realistic graphics, pushing half a billion pixels a second to achieve 4K/60fps is going to seriously hinder the ability to compete with the likes of Uncharted and Assassin's Creed, but for Nintendo games it might not be that harmful.

Let's consider a situation where Nintendo releases a 540p handheld with a 128 Gflop AMD GPU which we'll call NX Portable and a home console with a 2048 Gflop AMD GPU we'll call NX Home. We'll forget about RAM and so forth for the moment. Now, let's say that Nintendo primarily groups the games being made into two categories: games which are developed to run on both devices (e.g. Mario, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Mario Kart, etc.) and games which are developed to run just on the home console (e.g. Xenoblade Y, Metroid Prime 4: The Reprimening, most western 3rd party games, etc.). For the first group, there's a neat x16 relationship between the GPU ALU performance of the two machines, so assuming the other aspects of NX Home's design can handle it, they can run at 540p on NX Portable and 4K on NX Home. The game logic will have to be limited to what can run on the handheld CPU (as that's not going to scale with resolution), but for these kinds of games it shouldn't be a big issue, and going by Blu's benchmarks, even a lowly quad-core 800MHz A53 cluster would still outperform Wii U's CPU by about 35%. For the second group of titles, they can run at 1080p on NX Home and take quite a bit more time on each pixel, as well as make full use of the home console's CPU.

Where does that put the first group of games in terms of graphics on the NX Home? They shouldn't be inherently limited compared to the second group when it comes to asset quality (although may have to use simpler texture filtering), but obviously will have to use simpler lighting and shading techniques to run through those pixels quickly. Assuming Nintendo wants to keep putting out games which run at 60fps, they need to push 497,664,000 pixels through their shaders per second to do so at 4K, and with a 2048 Gflops GPU this gives them 2,058 operations per pixel to work with (taking FMA as one op, and of course this isn't going to be purely dedicated to pixel shaders, but I just want to keep the comparisons simple here). NX Mobile, pushing 31,104,000 pixels per second through a 128 Gflops GPU will also have 2,058 ops/pixel to work its magic with, so should be able to use precisely the same shader code as its big brother.

To put this in perspective let's first look at Wii U. The RV700-era GPU used in the Wii U is about 6 years older than the GCN 1.2-era GPU that we'll assume is used in NX (or 8 years older than a Polaris-era GPU, however unlikely that may be). So, a Wii U flop is definitely not equal to an NX flop. The newer GPU will have a more advanced shader ISA allowing it to do more useful things in fewer cycles, and the components like the thread scheduler will have been substantially upgraded to allow developers to get as close as possible to fully utilising the computational power available. That all being said, if we want to say how these games will look in comparison to Wii U games, it's helpful to have some kind of numerical data to work with, even if we can't make a like-for-like evaluation.

With 176 Gflops of GPU grunt, Nintendo has been able to dedicate the following amount of processing power to each pixel in various Wii U games:

1080p/60fps: 708 ops/pixel (Smash Bros)
720p+480p/60fps: 1,102 ops/pixel (El Capitan Todd, Nintendoland)
720p/60fps: 1,592 ops/pixel (3D World, Mario Kart 8, Tropical Freeze, Splatoon, etc.)
720p/30fps: 3,183 ops/pixel (Xenoblade, Zelda?)

And to compare it to a handful of PS4 and XBO games (where you should be able to make a much more like-for like comparison):

Forza Motorsport 6 (1080p/60fps, XBO): 5,265 ops/pixel
Killzone : Shadow Fall (1080p/60fps, PS4): 7,406 ops/pixel
SW: Battlefront (900p/60fps, PS4): 10,666 ops/pixel
SW: Battlefront (720p/60fps, XBO): 11,846 ops/pixel
Uncharted 4 (1080p/30fps, PS4): 14,813 ops/pixel
Assassin's Creed: Syndicate (900p/30fps, XBO): 15,162 ops/pixel
Assassin's Creed: Syndicate (900p/30fps, PS4): 21,331 ops/pixel

So, you're obviously not going to be getting games which look like Uncharted or Assassin's Creed at 4K/60fps (duh!), but there's a big range there, and at 4K/30fps you'd be pretty close to pulling off the kind of shading you get in Forza 6.

It is worth considering, though, how valuable this kind of per-pixel computational grunt is to games like Mario and Animal Crossing versus the huge leap of image quality that you get when moving to 4K. As an example, Digital Foundry claims that Captain Toad "feels almost pre-rendered at points", despite it releasing in an era of games which have almost 20 times the computational resources to dedicate to each pixel. This isn't to say that Nintendo couldn't improve on this with more sophisticated pixel shaders, but most Nintendo games don't need, say, physically based material shaders to achieve the Pixar-like look they're going for, while for a game like Battlefront these more computationally intensive shaders are vital to achieving such realistic graphics. At the same time, the colourful, high-contrast worlds that many Nintendo games inhabit can really benefit from the crispness of a 4K image.

Take a look at Captain Toad:

el-capitan-todd-saves-the-world.jpg


Now, take a game which looks that good, give it a generational leap in polygon count and a generational leap in texture detail. Then give it whatever improvements in shading Nintendo can gain from a 6 years of GPU architecture advances and around twice the raw computational grunt per pixel. Then, render it at 4K resolution at a super-smooth 60fps. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be extremely happy if those are the kinds of games NX Home would be able to produce, and I certainly wouldn't consider it a "low-spec game". Of course, games like Xenoblade would look over-stretched attempting to run at such resolutions, but at 1080p/30fps they would have the resources available to compete with the likes of Uncharted 4 when necessary.

As I said above, the idea of a 540p handheld/4K console is appealing, but I skipped by quite a bit when I said "assuming the other aspects of NX Home's design can handle it". Running games at 4K isn't simply a matter of being able to run pixel shaders for half a billion pixels a second, but many other potential bottlenecks need to be removed, the chief of which is RAM bandwidth. RAM bandwidth usage is one of those things that scales pretty much linearly with resolution; if your buffer is four times the size you'll need to use four times the bandwidth to access it, all other things being equal. For a 4K framebuffer you have to evict every 16ms, that bandwidth becomes pretty crazy, and when you add in the intermediate buffers used in deferred rendering, which Nintendo now seems to favour, the bandwidth required becomes downright insane, even if the operations you're performing on all those buffers are very simple.

You'd probably be looking at a case where Nintendo would need to use 4GB+ of HBM or 8GB+ of GDDR5X on an extremely wide bus to be able to accommodate games running at 4K/60fps. And that's where the problem with the plan comes in. I can see Nintendo releasing a ~2 Tflop NX Home. It's above my personal expectations, but within the realm of possibility. I could also see Nintendo going with maybe 1-2GB of HBM1 as a replacement for eDRAM with a less powerful console, as a more outside chance. The chances of Nintendo releasing a 2+ Tflop console with either 4GB+ of HBM or 8GB of top-of-the-line GDDR5X on a 256+ bit bus stretches somewhat beyond the bounds of credibility for me, though. I'd love it to be the case, and it would be a nice way for Nintendo to have their cake and eat it when it comes to cross play and competing with MS and Sony, but I just don't see it happening.
Hoq do you think a handheld system will compare to Wii U? Specially with games like MK 8, 3DWorld or Pikmin?
 

Eradicate

Member
Sugiyama says that while searching for someone in house who knew how to create the FitMeter the hardware team pointed him towards Panasonic. Previously Panasonic helped them out with the gamecube's OD (it does not elaborate). They have continued to work together since then. Then the rest of the text on that page goes into how they went to Panasonics offices in Osaka and each side was nervous because of their preconceptions of the other side.

Not much to help, sorry.

That's a huge help hamauzu kaito! Thank you!

What's interesting is that it seems that though they have this relationship, they really aren't THAT close. Did Panasonic have a hand at all with the optical drive in either the Wii or Wii U then? (Maybe likely the Wii since it was "close" architecturally to the Gamecube, but I'm not sure!) It's all very interesting...lots to think about! Maybe they aren't so adverse to simply dropping optical drives after all?

That happened with 3DS. And you know what happened? Most of those games got canceled before the titles were even announced. That hurt the device much more than if the games had never been announced in the first place.

That's actually a good point!

I still like the approach, but it probably needs to be either tempered, hidden outright until things are done, or nothing said until much closer to the launch game's actual release. (Since the issue is about launch games!) I doubt they want burned again from too high expectations. Another option is just to reserve it for the big hitter titles and not even discuss other things until the sizzle reels pop up!

Didn't get to listen to the Activision call, but I don't think there was any Nintendo/NX question asked judging from twitter.

However, Gamestop's CEO did comment about the NX


Are you seeing excitement through PowerUp Rewards members around the Nintendo NX?

There is some excitement around NX. Lately here, we’ve been hearing a lot more buzz than we have in the past. Nintendo is interesting in that they really are able to keep things as quiet as they can for a while. And then they just lost their leader, so they’ve gone through a mourning period and so forth. NX sounds exciting. We’re looking forward to it. They’re very innovative in everything that they do. I hope that they come out with something exciting and innovative. I think we’ll be dominant distributor of that platform.
Originally Posted by alistdaily

That fan base is going to potentially get bigger with their mobile reach. Do you think Nintendo mobile games will get new fans interested in other Nintendo products?

Yeah, there are a lot of people who have never played a Super Mario game on a DS. A lot of the kids today have grown up only playing small games on their phones. As you introduce that exciting Nintendo IP and those characters, they’re going to want more of that. We think that will push them into our stores to see the big games. They’ll go, “Wow, there’s actually a game I can play for months and months instead of a few days.” That will be good for us. It will be very good for Nintendo, and we’re very positive on it.

Great find! Thank you!

That first quote is more interesting to me. They said they think they'll be the dominant distributor for it. While the whole quote is fairly subjective it seems, that's still a heck of a statement, even for PR spin. Do you think they already have things "in place" for what they intend on doing with the rollout for this thing, such as cross promotions, merchandise, etc.? It also seems like physical media will still be important (I don't think anyone was thinking they'd be all digital yet though). Do you think they even know anything at all about NX

Also...Thraktor, your posts are always so great! It's great seeing discussion of how these things actually COULD be possible instead of just throwing out random guesses and hope it happens. Sure, it's all speculation, but putting the tangibles into the conversation is very enlightening.

I'm so curious as to how handheld vs. console will play out. Usually they are quite distinct but yet with some interactivity (like GBAs for Four Swords). I can't help but think they're really going to be blending those lines this time, and it's exciting to see how that might pan out!
 

Narroo

Member
Now, take a game which looks that good, give it a generational leap in polygon count and a generational leap in texture detail. Then give it whatever improvements in shading Nintendo can gain from a 6 years of GPU architecture advances and around twice the raw computational grunt per pixel. Then, render it at 4K resolution at a super-smooth 60fps. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be extremely happy if those are the kinds of games NX Home would be able to produce, and I certainly wouldn't consider it a "low-spec game". Of course, games like Xenoblade would look over-stretched attempting to run at such resolutions, but at 1080p/30fps they would have the resources available to compete with the likes of Uncharted 4 when necessary.

Overall, this is a great, thoughtful post, and I like it! That said, I'm not sure how much better textures or polygons can really help. At the least, the game already has a ton of polygons, and the textures are already fairly simplistic.
 
They are just trying to keep people buying Wii U's, it's very obviously a Wii U replacement.
Wii U has maybe 1 game coming out this year (if Zelda U hasn't been delayed). Maybe a third-party game or two.

No one in their right mind would bother to buy a Wii U anymore.
I just convinced a friend to consider buying one after I told them about the NX stuff. He's not in his right mind.
 
Hoq do you think a handheld system will compare to Wii U? Specially with games like MK 8, 3DWorld or Pikmin?
I'm guessing the new handheld should be able to run games similar to Wii U, maybe at half the frame rate and lower res textures.
Vita<NX handheld<Wii U, I'd imagine based on the previous handheld generations.
Something like DKCTF, Mario 3DW, and Yarn Yoshi at 30fps 540p while missing some graphical effects (DK's fur, Yoshi's static fuzz, etc)
3DS could handle some nice looking game at 30fps like 3D Land and OoT3D.
 

Proelite

Member
As I said above, the idea of a 540p handheld/4K console is appealing, but I skipped by quite a bit when I said "assuming the other aspects of NX Home's design can handle it". Running games at 4K isn't simply a matter of being able to run pixel shaders for half a billion pixels a second, but many other potential bottlenecks need to be removed, the chief of which is RAM bandwidth. RAM bandwidth usage is one of those things that scales pretty much linearly with resolution; if your buffer is four times the size you'll need to use four times the bandwidth to access it, all other things being equal. For a 4K framebuffer you have to evict every 16ms, that bandwidth becomes pretty crazy, and when you add in the intermediate buffers used in deferred rendering, which Nintendo now seems to favour, the bandwidth required becomes downright insane, even if the operations you're performing on all those buffers are very simple.

You'd probably be looking at a case where Nintendo would need to use 4GB+ of HBM or 8GB+ of GDDR5X on an extremely wide bus to be able to accommodate games running at 4K/60fps. And that's where the problem with the plan comes in. I can see Nintendo releasing a ~2 Tflop NX Home. It's above my personal expectations, but within the realm of possibility. I could also see Nintendo going with maybe 1-2GB of HBM1 as a replacement for eDRAM with a less powerful console, as a more outside chance. The chances of Nintendo releasing a 2+ Tflop console with either 4GB+ of HBM or 8GB of top-of-the-line GDDR5X on a 256+ bit bus stretches somewhat beyond the bounds of credibility for me, though. I'd love it to be the case, and it would be a nice way for Nintendo to have their cake and eat it when it comes to cross play and competing with MS and Sony, but I just don't see it happening.

Does the GCN 1.2 bandwidth compression not help? If the Neo is 4+ teraflops with 216 gb/sec bandwidth. I think NX will be fine with 2+ teraflop console with regular 8GB of GDDR5.

Imo, I think they'll go with LPDDR4 or DDR4 for cost and TDP savings. 8-12 GB of LPDDR4 / DDR4 on a 128 bit bus + some esram. Nintendo LOVES them embedded ram.

If NX is 14nm, I can see their APU having 64mb of Esram, and a 2+ teraflop gpu.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
I was thinking now, we know that most of Nintendo teams are most probably working on NX games and we have hints from the likes of Emily Rogers that the line-up for the first year will be a very good one, but this comes after 2 years of nothingness more or less and it still seems that the development cycles at Nintendo are quite long, so what will it happen after these games are all out, let's say after 2 years (I assume Nintendo will pace them a bit after the first year)? Because the average development times seems to be 2-3 years if not more (and if NX will be powerful, that will only make the cycles longer). So, will we face a long drought in the year 3? Some filler games?
 

Eradicate

Member
Another golden nugget about another company working on middleware (possible game?) for the NX. I'd love for it to get translated (from Japanese) to see if it says what I think it says!

(My apologies if this is old, but I haven't seen it anywhere searching around.)

Silicon Studio had their 2015 fiscal year earning presentation listed that (I think) NX development presents a growth opportunity for them. Mistwalker and Silicon Studio are working on something together (that news came out in late February) and I've got no idea if this is related. (It could be for anything.) This presentation was given on January 26, but again, I haven't seen anything about it so ignore if old!

Here is the actual slide:

DXWNgWT.png


Found here: http://contents.xj-storage.jp/xcontents/AS02681/ab2e7e91/8985/431a/89dd/78322da2f7c0/140120160125495112.pdf

(Translations are welcome!)
 

Thraktor

Member
Hoq do you think a handheld system will compare to Wii U? Specially with games like MK 8, 3DWorld or Pikmin?

I'd agree with James Scott in that it seems most likely to be close-to-Wii U graphics at 540p. There is quite a wide range of possibilities on this front, though. On one hand the more powerful the handheld is, the easier it is to cross-develop games for both handheld and console at the same time, so there's a certain incentive to avoid expensive components like 3D screens and push as much of the BoM as possible into a powerful SoC and fast RAM. In which case we could see something like what I describe above (basically a jump over Wii U at 540p) or even theoretically a bit higher, if they go gung-ho with a 14nm chip.

On the other hand, they're unlikely to see any more competition from Sony in the handheld market, so they may decide that they simply need something that's a comfortable jump up over 3DS visuals (which would include basically anything even a little more powerful than Vita).

Overall, this is a great, thoughtful post, and I like it! That said, I'm not sure how much better textures or polygons can really help. At the least, the game already has a ton of polygons, and the textures are already fairly simplistic.

Have a quick look at this high-res screen of Mario 3D Land which James Scott posted a page or two back:

IDa10Hsh.jpg


At the native resolution of 400*240 on the 3DS, Mario 3D Land doesn't look at all limited in the texture or polygon count department. However when you render it at around 6.5x the resolution you can start to see the limitations. The coin on the right, which looks perfectly round on a 3DS screen, now has polygonal edges starting to show, the rope is looking decidedly blockier, and the grass texture starts to look very low-res.

Take games like Mario Kart 8, 3D World or Splatoon and render them at 8 times the resolution and you're going to see similar limitations in terms of polygon counts and texture resolutions that you don't see when you're playing them at 720p. Particularly with Nintendo games, which tend to use a lot of smooth curved shapes, more polygon detail is always helpful, and even their "simple" textures tend to use bright, contrasty colours, which benefit hugely from being as crisp as possible.

Does the GCN 1.2 bandwidth compression not help? If the Neo is 4+ teraflops with 216 gb/sec bandwidth. I think NX will be fine with 2+ teraflop console with regular 8GB of GDDR5.

Imo, I think they'll go with LPDDR4 or DDR4 for cost and TDP savings. 8-12 GB of LPDDR4 / DDR4 on a 128 bit bus + some esram. Nintendo LOVES them embedded ram.

If NX is 14nm, I can see their APU having 64mb of Esram, and a 2+ teraflop gpu.

Color buffer compression helps, but it's not a miracle cure. Doing some (absurdly oversimplified) calculations, consider that a 720p/60fps Wii U game like Mario Kart 8 has a total of 82.8GB/s of bandwidth to play with (based on the eDRAM providing 70GB/s). If you assume that it's making reasonably good use of that bandwidth (and as it seems to be using deferred rendering, one would assume so), then to render exactly the same game at 4K/60fps you would want 9 times the bandwidth, or 745.2GB/s. Even assuming that AMD's claims of 40% bandwidth savings from color buffer compression are completely true, then you're still looking at 447GB/s of bandwidth after making use of the compression. That's 33% more bandwidth than the 980Ti has available to it.

GDDR5 or LPDDR4 would be fine for NX if it targets 1080p (which I expect it to), but once they start targeting 4K the bandwidth requirements jump dramatically, even with "just" 2 Tflops of performance. Furthermore, if they target 4K then eSRAM goes completely out the window (unless they want a gigantic chip where 80% of the die area is a 256MB pool of SRAM and they have to squeeze some meagre GPU and CPU into the other 20%). If they do target 4K (again, something I think is extremely unlikely), then the option would likely be between 4GB of HBM1 combined with 4GB+ of DDR3/4 or a single pool of 8GB+ of GDDR5X running at 12+GT/s on a 256+ bit bus. Either would be very expensive, particularly combined with a 2+ Tflop GPU.
 
Another golden nugget about another company working on middleware (possible game?) for the NX. I'd love for it to get translated (from Japanese) to see if it says what I think it says!

(My apologies if this is old, but I haven't seen it anywhere searching around.)

Silicon Studio had their 2015 fiscal year earning presentation listed that (I think) NX development presents a growth opportunity for them. Mistwalker and Silicon Studio are working on something together (that news came out in late February) and I've got no idea if this is related. (It could be for anything.) This presentation was given on January 26, but again, I haven't seen anything about it so ignore if old!

Here is the actual slide:

DXWNgWT.png


Found here: http://contents.xj-storage.jp/xcontents/AS02681/ab2e7e91/8985/431a/89dd/78322da2f7c0/140120160125495112.pdf

(Translations are welcome!)

Mistwalker? Please be The Last Story 2!
 
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