My memory's kind of hazy, but the mystery surrounding that didn't last nearly as long as Ash-Greninja right? Also Ash-Greninja has been in games and stuff, so...
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Pokémon Sun & Moon | Info and speculation thread
- Thread starter Galava
- Start date
My memory's kind of hazy, but the mystery surrounding that didn't last nearly as long as Ash-Greninja right? Also Ash-Greninja has been in games and stuff, so...
Agreed, Pokémon is getting close to Digimon territory with whole Synchro nonsense and I am not looking forward to seeing them rear their ugly head in Sun and Moon.
It was bad enough that Mega culled Cross gen evolution but synchro is just nailing the coffin.
Watch them to jump the shark and do Pokémon and human fusion for gen 8.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Oh yeah, some people speculated that the stout man we saw in the previous trailer is probably the boatman who will take you around.
I'm glad it does that - it embraces the sheer audacity of the world and benefits from it
I mean if your world has monsters capable of breathing fire shaped like a kanji you might as well go all out and embrace that
sync, and yes he is
the beauty of it is Ash gets hurt when Greninja does
Digimon didn't even have synchro.
I'm glad it does that - it embraces the sheer audacity of the world and benefits from it
I mean if your world has monsters capable of breathing fire shaped like a kanji you might as well go all out and embrace that
sync, and yes he is
the beauty of it is Ash gets hurt when Greninja does
Digimon didn't even have synchro.
what
Otakumegane
Member
Holy. Synchro evolution sounds terrible. Those anime gifs do not help at all. That's one part of Digimon I hated.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Digimon wishes it has that quality of fights (the closest is XY and even then it depends on the ep), also again, I don't remember sync in Digimon
there is "synchronize evolution" but it acts NOTHING like this, and I bet that's one of the reasons why people think synchro = fusion (stupid dub names)
and besides, like I said before, the games won't be doing this amount of good animation anyway - they'll just have the pokemon do attack and remain still so I doubt they'd do the trainer-mimics-the-mon thing, it's kind apointless
pretty much in all spine offs and even merch, as well as TCG
It's in Pokemon Shuffle and Picross I think, it's had cards, it's in that weird Japanese arcade game, there's toys... people know what it is, I'm just saying I think it's a different scenario from Mewtwo.
So I had completely forgotten about this speculation thread so I'm cross-posting from the other.
And yeah, I hadn't noticed till it was brought up but the markings on the legendaries do seem pretty similar. Solgaleo has a lot of markings on the head, while Lunala has a noticeable glowing spot at the rib cage where the heart is. Both sort of draw attention to certain spots.
The green lion devouring the sun is a famous image in alchemy.
That's the only thing I can think of that relates to Solgaleo.
Silver to gold is what the green lion eating the sun represents. The green lion is weak to the sun and what drips down from its mouth is gold.
Solgaleo being a steel type can also be referencing something like that.
Also could be the solar panel thing too. Could even be all of the above which isn't unheard of for some legendaries.
--
Found some things thanks to Scarl's help.
Scarl showed me these which I found really interesting. There's is an old bat myth about the creation of day and night. It's a neat little story.
https://books.google.be/books?id=p7dR2w1Wv2sC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=moon bat&f=false
Scarl also showed me this gold lunula necklace which has the moon shape like you see with Lunala's wings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_lunula
Lunala's appearance is a bat and we all know that bat's are often associated with evil themes like ghosts. Also While Lunala also has gold on it, in alchemy the moon rules over silver which is a white metal. The moon is also associated with bodily organs like the brain. So for typing you got the ghost and psychic which fits for its folkore and alchemy. Sun rules over gold which is a yellow metal that resembles the sun. Sun is also associated with the heart so I dunno what to say about the psychic type aspect. But why is this important though? Because it shows a link between them and even if the colors of white and yellow are switched, there's still a theme of gold and silver.
There could still be some more things out there that we haven't found though. There's gotta be something for Solgaleo and it being part psychic.
I probably should have split some things up.
Astrological alchemy associates planets with certain metals. Hermetic Qabalah alchemy is mysticism and associates certain planets with bodily organs. Both still work in this case.
Astrological alchemy:
Sun rules gold
Moon rules silver
Mercury rules quicksilver/mercury
Venus rules copper
Mars rules iron
Jupiter rules tin
Saturn rules lead
Hermetic Qabalah alchemy:
Sun, heart
Moon, brain
Mercury, lungs
Venus, kidneys
Mars, gall bladder
Jupiter, liver
Saturn, spleen
I suppose you could put heart to be a more spiritual sense with all this taken into consideration. The sephirothic tree in Hermetic Qabalah is something you do also see in Full Metal Alchemist on the gate of alchemy which is called "God's domain" when Ed and Al lose their bodies. Also side note, the names to each part of the tree are also some of the major town and city names in Tales of the Abyss like Daath, Chokhmah, Binah, Malkuth, and Hod.
Also I do agree with you on the color schemes.
Another interesting thing I found. It's an old Hawaiian legend "Crouching Lion"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuMl3WVvZno
--------------------------------------------------
Important reply from Scarl
Thanks for breaking it down like that, it's interesting stuff.
So technically it's heart the organ, gotcha. Still, we're dealing with mysticism here and combining it with astrological alchemy, so you could probably still argue it's a heart in the spiritual sense like you say. And considering its golden counterpart is the brain which you could match with the Psychic type much easier I do think it makes sense to look at the heart in that way too. (You could probably also try and link HeartGold and SoulSilver to this stuff somehow.)
And I did notice that the location of Lunala's aforementioned "silver" bones match up with where the heart would be, guarding it like a ribcage. Notice the bright circle around that area in the purple? It does draw some attention to it. Another case of dualism?
Finally there's the whole cosmic theme, with the celestial bodies of course but also the starry domes on their heads, that one could use the explain the Psychic type. That's probably the most straightforward way to go. Cosmic Power is a Psychic type move for example.
Haha, yeah. Gen 7 echoes Gen 2 like Gen 6 did with Gen 1 confirmed?
Very nice, I'll give that a watch right away.
edit: also the speculation thread probably makes more sense for this stuff whoops
edit 2: watched it, very neat legend. now we only need to find a hawaiian bat legend
And yeah, I hadn't noticed till it was brought up but the markings on the legendaries do seem pretty similar. Solgaleo has a lot of markings on the head, while Lunala has a noticeable glowing spot at the rib cage where the heart is. Both sort of draw attention to certain spots.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
so Alchemy still?
That's my current theory for right now at least. I dunno if it will be the case or if it's just a small fraction of an overall legend or a footnote on Bulbapedia's trivia section. Pokemon has done a lot of things and mixed legends before like with Arceus having a couple creator deity legends rolled into one.
Nothing significant there outside of my elaboration on the colour schemes but I'm gonna quote my first reply you omitted here just to have it all at the same place, it basically went like this:
And then the convo continued with the posts quoted above.
I'm pretty much out of ideas for now though. I mentioned it on twitter but the one thing I do think might be worth looking into more when it comes to the celestial duo's (well, that's what I'm calling them right now) themes is the whole astronomy aspect of the two.
You've got the starry dome-like head of both of them, Lunala's wings and an observatory does show up on the map artwork. ...And obviously they're related to the sun and the moon.
Their names sound pretty constellation-like, being all Latin & Greek, with Leo being the obvious match of course. Plus it sounds awfully similar to Galileo. Don't know if there's anything that would relate to a bat though. Is there?
----
I'm thinking the latter is going to be the most significant inspiration though, with alchemy being a close second, keeping it a bit more basic compared to some of the previous box legendaries. There really doesn't appear to be an easy mythology inspiration to match that involves both a bat and a lion. Not that I mind.
And then the convo continued with the posts quoted above.
I'm pretty much out of ideas for now though. I mentioned it on twitter but the one thing I do think might be worth looking into more when it comes to the celestial duo's (well, that's what I'm calling them right now) themes is the whole astronomy aspect of the two.
You've got the starry dome-like head of both of them, Lunala's wings and an observatory does show up on the map artwork. ...And obviously they're related to the sun and the moon.
Their names sound pretty constellation-like, being all Latin & Greek, with Leo being the obvious match of course. Plus it sounds awfully similar to Galileo. Don't know if there's anything that would relate to a bat though. Is there?
----
I'm thinking the latter is going to be the most significant inspiration though, with alchemy being a close second, keeping it a bit more basic compared to some of the previous box legendaries. There really doesn't appear to be an easy mythology inspiration to match that involves both a bat and a lion. Not that I mind.
Fix-It Felix. Jr.
Member
It's a Pokedex that has been possessed by a Rotom. Along with all the basic features of a regular Pokedex, it will also act as an assistant to the player, giving advice on how to proceed in the game. It also has a map with important spots marked. It'll be on the touch-screen for easy access.
I think that's all we know right now.
NeonZ
Member
Mega Evolutions, alongside "Mega Mewtwo", were revealed on August 2013. Mewtwo "Awakened form" was revealed on April 2013. So, yes, it didn't last as long as the current Ash Greninja situation, but it still lasted about 4 months (and even so "Mega Mewtwo" wasn't the final name).
Kssio_Aug
Member
Thanks! I imagine it can me bit unnecessary, giving that the game is already easy enough. But we will see how these features will work! =)
Serpens007
Member
Aw yeah, Gen II connections. Bring that M-Feraligatr!
Fix-It Felix. Jr.
Member
I'm hoping that this could be a way to appease the players that want some difficulty, while still making it enjoyable for players that get easily confused and frustrated. Puzzles could actually be challenging now, and instead of giving up, younger players can just consult the PokeDex for immediate guidance. That's how I'd love to see this goes, but who knows. We could very well be getting a "Hey, Listen!" message every minute without the ability to ignore/turn the Dex off.
Gen 6 had some serious Gen 1
Can't think anything but Hoenn because of the tropical region though.
... But a region that looks fun to explore does give me Sinnoh vibes
... Well, it IS the anniversary game after all.
Serpens007
Member
Alola looks like a less linear region for Pokemon. I remember reading that GF was afraid that younger players could get lost if they make a game less linear, so maybe with the Rotom-Dex they found a solution to that, and thus, making everyone happy about it.
Fix-It Felix. Jr.
Member
That's what I was thinking. That island with the big tree looks like it could have a labyrinth-esque puzzle, which got me really excited!
It's a good compromise, I just hope it isn't too intrusive if true. Maybe place all its chattering on the lower screen and have it not interrupt anything that happens on the upper one? Sort of like one of those scrolling mission briefings you see in games.
That or just have it ask how experienced I am. That'd be nice. They should add options like that in general, have one for difficulty too. It's about time they do something like that.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
A lion eating the sun? If Virtue's Last Reward taught me anything, that can't be good news
SomeRandomWeirdGuy
Member
I dunno but I want that shit to stay out. Mega-Evolution was awful enough already
NeonZ
Member
No, it's not confirmed to be in the games. The promo art shows the trailer with a bracelet crystal similar in concept, but different looking from the Key Stones carried by the trainers for Mega Evolution though. The anime also is giving a lot of build up to Synchro. If there's no synchro in these games, it'd be the first time that the anime gave a lot of focus to a Pokemon form that just doesn't exist in the games.
I don't get why you'd be "afraid" though. Synchro is basically Mega Evolution with more disadvantages, going by the anime (If the Pokemon faints, the trainer also faints). Even visually, the influences are probably just minor color or texture changes, considering how the legendary Greninja painting looked just like Ash Greninja.
Don't mix up Synchro with that weird Pokemon fusion manga.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
See, all this proves that every pokemon misinfo can be traced back to dubbed Digimon.
CURSE YOU FOX KIDS
CURSE YOU FOX KIDS
Valkerionseven
Member
Might go for Pokemon Sun this time. I usually go for the "secondary" game but I like the look of both legendaries.
All I know is that this is the first time I'm hearing about this kind of stuff, and it's also the first time I'm seeing Ash Greninja. And for the first time since I started playing Pokemon in '98, it really feels jump the shark-ish. I'll hold judgment but it's really freaking me out.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
If Rotom is in a Pokédex, I wonder if that means the player will actually be able to use the Rotom in battle or not.
I'm still willing to bet that synchro is either a build up to Ash creating a Greninja mega evolution or an anime replacement for mega evolution since one for greninja doesn't exist and none of his other pokemon can mega evolve.
The Sum of Zero
Member
Not gonna lie, if they add that Synchro thing in I'll be getting serious YGO 5D's vibes.
Inb4 you need Clear Mind for Lunala and Burning Soul for Solgaleo.
Inb4 you need Clear Mind for Lunala and Burning Soul for Solgaleo.
spyroflame0487
Member
When you're a huge nerd fan of Rotom and now everyone gets to enjoy him.
I really hope the RotomDex is full of really smart ass comments like " Oh you got a Pikachu. Well I think there's SOME Electric Pokemon thats much cooler"
I really hope the RotomDex is full of really smart ass comments like " Oh you got a Pikachu. Well I think there's SOME Electric Pokemon thats much cooler"
This mean rotom are native to Alola or?
PhazonBlazer
Member
They just need to confirm trainer customization already.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Nah they haven't flipped the coin to decide that one yet.
Pokemaniac
Member
It's essentially been confirmed already. The player characters have been seen with different clothing on.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
it's all but confirmed though, just needs media appearance
5Ds is good though, so that's not a bad thing!
Megas didn't cull cross gen evolution. Eviolite did. Megas kept old gen Pokémon relevant.
How does it sound terrible?
The entire concept behind it is exactly how they described Mega Evolution in the September 2013 Direct and hinted at in the January 2013 Direct... as well as how Mega Evolution has been showcased somewhat in the anime (see Korrina and Lucario) as well as noted in the games, being about the bond between trainers and their Pokémon
No. If GF wanted they could change stats upon evolution and lower defensive stats, it wouldn't be the first time. Megas have harmed regular evos way more than eviolite, and if Sun/Moon doesn't feature any cross evolution it will be the final nail on their coffin.
No. That's not how it works. So basically for every cross-gen evolution they'd have to massively damage defense just because of the Eviolite?
No.
It had nothing to do with Megas, and everything to do with the Eviolite since they want consistency between generations. That's why Eevee doesn't use the Leaf Stone to evolve into Leafeon, because that would have been possible in prior games.
GF has consistently shown various ways to adapt to make a Pokémon viable. Are you telling me that a single item can block all that work? No way. Even then, not all Pokémon would be broken if given a new evolution.
Mightyena, Kricketune, Ariados, Tauros... Tell me, how would they be more "broken" than, say, Magneton?
It's because Eviolite has existed. As it doesn't work on those Pokémon in Gen 5 & 6, then it suddenly working on them in Gen 7 would cause canon issues. They try as hard as they can to stay away from things like that, hence the evolution method examples I gave.
I never said it would be "broken". I said they want consistency.
I don't really get why they care so much about staying consistent to the older games, especially because they have accidentally broke that consistency multiple times already. It's one thing to create the Moss/Icy rock for Eevee, but no more cross-gen evolutions because of the eviolite of all things is such a stupid reason.
Eviolite's a strange scenario though. You lose consistency when you alter the types of Pokemon, which we've had in both Gen 2 and Gen 6, so consistency can be broken. But when you have new evolutions, they usually introduce it by a method unseen before for consistency, so you do have this element of some things being acceptable and some not being, so I feel like evolutionary arguments based on Eviolite could go either way. They could even combine the two, and release a new evolution method and specify Eviolite to not be compatible with evolutions obtained in this manner. That would maintain consistency.