Yes. Yes it does sound crazy.
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Oculus Diversity Program Members Shocked And Dismayed By Founders Alt-Right Ties
- Thread starter Charles Alan Ratliff
- Start date
Yes. Yes it does sound crazy.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
This is why I'm ignoring Oculus forever.
Outrun
Member
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
I understand your arguments that Palmer is a fuckhead, but I think there's a lot of misunderstanding and misplaced anger. Realistically, firing the guy who is the founder of a product you invested 2 billion dollars in is going to have serious consequences. I'm sure Zuckerburg was pissed about the whole thing and I'm sure he wanted to fire Palmer, but there's no way the punishment fits the crime, in the sense that it would most definitely punish more than just Palmer.
Also, not buying a Rift because of this doesn't make sense to me. Not only are there hundreds of people working on this thing, but Oculus was already bought by Facebook, so you're basically protesting Facebook, not Palmer. If that's the case, are you still using Facebook? My guess is yes to 100% of you (that already used it before).
And last, if your argument is that he is channeling Oculus money into a hate group...really? 10k out of his hundreds of millions? I can't imagine all the fucked up shit done by billionares of companies of which we use products every single day. What he does with his dumbass money and time is up to him no matter how stupid it is, and the fact that it's so little makes it impossible to imply that he's using Oculus money to fund a hate group. And in that same vein, go ahead and don't buy a great product because it promotes bigotry using the loosest associations possible. That's your choice, but...
My point is, there's a douchebag at a company, but it doesn't reflect the company's stance at all. If you're saying it does, that's conjecture, and likely inaccurate. Zuckerburg is an openly progressive guy and in no way condones these actions at all. He can't make everyone who works for him think like him, and he can't fire someone who was the founder of a company he spent 2 billion dollars on because the guy made a couple of idiotic comments and said he promotes an idiotic cause.
Also, not buying a Rift because of this doesn't make sense to me. Not only are there hundreds of people working on this thing, but Oculus was already bought by Facebook, so you're basically protesting Facebook, not Palmer. If that's the case, are you still using Facebook? My guess is yes to 100% of you (that already used it before).
And last, if your argument is that he is channeling Oculus money into a hate group...really? 10k out of his hundreds of millions? I can't imagine all the fucked up shit done by billionares of companies of which we use products every single day. What he does with his dumbass money and time is up to him no matter how stupid it is, and the fact that it's so little makes it impossible to imply that he's using Oculus money to fund a hate group. And in that same vein, go ahead and don't buy a great product because it promotes bigotry using the loosest associations possible. That's your choice, but...
My point is, there's a douchebag at a company, but it doesn't reflect the company's stance at all. If you're saying it does, that's conjecture, and likely inaccurate. Zuckerburg is an openly progressive guy and in no way condones these actions at all. He can't make everyone who works for him think like him, and he can't fire someone who was the founder of a company he spent 2 billion dollars on because the guy made a couple of idiotic comments and said he promotes an idiotic cause.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
1) It makes sense since there is plenty of competition in the market (Vive, PSVR)
2) I don't spend money on Facebook, but I would need to spend $600 to use a Rift
3) Facebook owns Oculus but they are not the same company. That would be like saying "I'm never buying a Sony PlayStation because some Naughty Dog person did a horrible thing!" (<-- This did not happen, just using as an example to explain the relationship)
Luckily, being the supreme dumbass he is, Palmer Luckey himself wrote a post explaining to people why your attempt to downplay avoiding oculus is bullshit, and why his (and oculus') continued success matters:
https://archive.is/4OuYq#selection-2433.49-2437.52https://archive.is/4OuYq#selection-2433.49-2437.52
If you think the notion that not supporting Palmer Luckey won't hurt the bottom line behind all this, you need to convince Palmer Luckey as well.
But hey, if your argument is that Palmer Luckey's shitty, shitty behavior isn't reason enough to avoid Oculus, I can provide many more.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
I don't know, maybe Zuckerberg just needs to hire a hitman.
Nostremitus
Member
To be fair... Other than the big guy, most of the people in the foreground look Asian...Reminds me of this picture
Go try counting the non white males in the room
Leave the personal insults out of it, and simply state your opinion, rather than coopting the voice of Canada...
I am having an enlightening dialogue on here.
Quit throwing stuff on the field of play
Never
Outrun
Member
Never
Heheheh
He WOULD have enough of a crazy ego to take offense to a statement like that, wouldn't he? "No one's better at talking about women than me. Nobody!"
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
Now you've done it. You're going onto the drone list.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Hmm. I wonder if Palmer is a pussy-grabber like his sensei Trump.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
It's funny that you're comparing a child molester who played as the face of a company to a guy that put some money into online trolling and said a bunch of stupid shit. Like I said, I think he should get fired but I understand that I don't understand the scope of why he didn't.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
Who is also the face of a company.
He also put money toward a white supremacy group, which is a little more severe than just saying "some stupid shit".
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
So you're cool with funding hate groups $10k at a time. Out of curiosity what is your cutoff for single donations to white supremacy groups?
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
No, I'm not cool with it. If you want to look at this situation in extremes, then it won't lead anywhere. That's my point. I'm jewish, I hate white power shit, but even I know it doesn't reflect an entire company when one asshole who no longer has leverage makes some stupid moves.
The face of a company represents a company. Thats quite normal.
Do you think after this Palmer is still the face of the company? He wasn't even at their annual developer conference.
You still attempting to downplay this as just online trolling?
Please continue.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Forgive me if it seems I'm downplaying it, but I feel like many others are doing the opposite and my reaction may appear as so. Maybe I'm wrong when I say the actions of one shouldn't reault in the ostracizing of others that are professionally but not personally affiliated, but as I may still eat a sub at subway (if it was any good) even after the spokesperson was a child molester, I would support Oculus if an employee was a bigot, not in any way because I support those beliefs/actions and quite the opposite. I hypothetically eat that sub, I support that company, I exist in society, because the mistakes of a few do not represent the whole, and people hating Oculus because of Palmer Luckey is short-sighted and fails to see the bigger picture.
SmiteOfHand
Member
And when the CEO of said company, and Jason Friggin' Rubin, both release public statements saying effectively 'we stand with Luckey, sorry you don't like that.'
What then?
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
The people in charge at Oculus are supporting Palmer. They came out in defense of him.
On a lighter note, Cards Against Humanity's Max Tempkin coming out swinging:
WrenchNinja
Member
Until this asshole is out, he is.
You did downplay it - there was no "seems" involved. That's horseshit.
Jared Fogle was paid to be the face of Subway. He wasn't a founder.
Palmer Luckey is the face of Oculus - at least, until a few weeks ago. He was the founder of Oculus. It was his personal brand on Kickstarter that got people excited and involved in Oculus. The Oculus board and executive leadership are the ones making excuses for him personally funding a racial hate organization. This same company is trying to sweep this under the rug.
These are the facts. Full stop. No amount of handwaving is going to change this.
Any money put into Oculus goes to Luckey, and also to the people who have no issue with his behaviour. So it's quite fair for people who find the funding of hate groups reprehensible to decide that their money is better spent elsewhere.
Sites like Giantbomb, IGN, Gamespot, even all the smaller and medium sites are overwhelmingly white.
I was taken aback catching up on all the E3 round up this summer on youtube. I couldn't remember a non-white face from all the above sites and more.
GearDraxon
Member
"Palmer? I hardly know 'er!
and I'm an awful person who has no concept of boundaries, consent, or respect
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Henry* (woops) Ford enabled the automobiles of today to exist. Walt Disney allowed millions of children to experience the magic of Disneyland. Racists and anti-semitic people are involved in shit we use. They aren't the only people involved though. which is why people tend to deem it acceptable overtime. So I ask like someone asked me, where do you draw the line?
My money doesn't go into Henry Ford's pockets or Walt Disney's Pockets. Henry Ford and Walt Disney are not in front of me, on my screen, literally telling me that they need my proceeds to fund their hate group. Seems like a really easy line to draw - when someone flagrantly boast that the money I give them is going to fund a hate group, I don't support them. I feel legitimately sorry for you that this is difficult for you to grasp.
WrenchNinja
Member
Being a racist fuckwad is not a political view
kaname-san
Member
And?
Everyone has different opinions. Just like we have the option to buy or not but from people who offend us.
Why on earth are you comparing Disney and Ford to Luckey? They managed to skate, so he should as well? Are you aware that it's 2016 and not 1906? Racism and anti-Semitism was not a career limiting move back when those two were establishing their companies. Rest assured that if they were doing so today and those views came to light, they'd receive similar treatment and people would also be calling for a boycott of their products.
Luckey put his own cash into a racist organization. Oculus will be held accountable as long as he's part of the company, and probably a bit longer thanks to the piss-poor corporate response from their executive team.
A man is known by the company he keeps.
Racism isn't a legitimate political view. Hit the bricks.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Thanks for the pity, but your money goes to corporate greed every day, whether you choose to realize that is your deal but it doesn't help your argument to be negligent. I'm pointing out hypocrisy, not saying you can't vote with your wallet. Just saying it's an illusion of righteousness to claim that abstaining from one murky product exalts you from everything else.
You are arguing a murky, vague boogey man, and asking why I explicitly support that boogey man, to prop up your support for a known shit head. Here's a clue, if I find out that the face of a corporation I support is funding hate groups, I stop supporting them. It's that easy.
You sure are twisting and turning to try and justify supporting a shithead. I notice you've stopped trying to claim that supporting oculus doesn't enable Luckey to be a shithead, at least. Why not just drop the act and admit you don't care if you prop up Luckey's support for a hate group, instead of trying to pretend everyone else is explicitly supporting known assholes so you don't feel like the odd man out?
I don't see anyone here claiming exaltation based on this. What we're saying is, this isn't right, and those who participate in this kind of shitty behaviour will be named and held accountable.
Continuing your line of thought, nobody should vote with their wallet on anything because everything is tainted to some degree.
The simple response to that is, "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".
Chobel
Member
Snowybreak
Member
Know what? I just deleted like... Five long winded responses to this. I'm gonna sum it up like this.
I don't like the way that this company is handling its public image. I think that keeping Luckey on is a horrible thing (especially since they claim to be rather diverse). So why the fuck should I give them my money? There are other companies making VR devices. They arent the only fish in the pond, there is both a better device and a cheaper device. So who's saying that I have to give my money to a company I think is headed and founded by a piece of shit? This is not hypocrisy, this is a personal decision based on my knowledge of the public image of a company.
Edit: Holy shit, I already made a response to this exact thing in this thread.
Whose alt account is this? Confess.
Quote
Member
I don't have an obligation to spend my money with Oculus. I can spend my money on competing products. It's pretty simple.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
How about at least a statement like this:
"Palmer Luckey's support of this hate group is repugnant and his decision to blatantly lie about his involvement after the story surfaced are not at all in line with the ethos of Facebook/Oculus. At Facebook our credo is one of inclusion and we absolutely condemn the actions of Palmer Luckey."
Those are just words. They couldn't even do that.
Outrun
Member
Yeah,
Pretending that there is no problem and that hate is protected under freedom of speech is ridiculous at this point.
I am never getting an Oculus, unless the management makes some strong, albeit late, positive moves.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
Article from Venture Beat:
Disappointed with how they seem to brush off what Palmer did and more surprised that Oculus staff saying it was Palmer's choice not to attend.
Disappointed with how they seem to brush off what Palmer did and more surprised that Oculus staff saying it was Palmer's choice not to attend.
BlackClouds
Member
Oculus is dead to me and that's that.
Neuromancer
Member
Also they're dead