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New Fire Emblem for DS!

MechaX

Member
Cow Mengde said:
You have a very strange idea of reward when you lose tons of characters only to play replaced by one or 2 crappy units. Nagi is the only character worth using off the top of my head. Not a single one of the replacements were worth using considering the amount of units you have to lose in order to get them.

Seems more like a shitty consolation prize for sucking.

To be fair, you get shitty characters in Shadow Dragon by the boatload. Weigh that in with additional gaiden chapters, characters that may be decent or that I may actually like (Athena is a prime example), I can see the incentive in trimming down your roster considerably. I just wish that sending 20 units to the slaughter wasn't the only way to unlock the additional chapters.

I'm down for more Fire Emblem. Even though I need to finish Sacred Stones, Path of Radiance, buy Radiant Dawn, and finish up Shadow Dragon. I'm fucking terrible at finishing SRPGs.
 
They're adding a "casual" mode where your characters revive if you get them killed off, so it looks like they're going a different route for helping new players and probably a different way of getting Gaidens as a result.

I said the wi-fi shop ruins the legitimacy of the games challenge because it makes the playing field uneven between players. This is a fact. The only legitimate FE challenges are FE 4-7 ranked playthroughs.
Don't use WiFi shop? A lot of people's complaints about a lot of the more broken stuff in SD are things that you can easily just avoid using.
 
I didn't really like Shadow Dragon, but when I played it, I didn't even know a "WiFi shop" existed. Just found out in this thread.
 
KittenMaster said:
Don't use WiFi shop? A lot of people's complaints about a lot of the more broken stuff in SD are things that you can easily just avoid using.
In order for the score or result of a game to be legitimate, its rules must be standardized. There should be no way to reduce the amount of skill needed to score or pass the test without adversely affecting the score/result. The most common ways that a games rules become non-standardized are through pre-order/collectors edition in-game bonuses, DLC, optional stat grinding, and save/reload abuse. Any game that violates this rule is no longer a valid test of skill and should not be considered legitimate as a test of skill. There are two types of challenges in video games. Developer provided challenges, where the game reacts to the players actions such as rewarding a higher score or making the game more difficult, and player provided challenges, where the game does not react to the players actions either way. 'Choosing not to grind' in a game that doesn't punish grinding is a player defined challenge and thus isn't considered legitimate within the confines of the games rules. Stating "just don't use X" does not magically legitimize a games difficulty.
 

wsippel

Banned
Cow Mengde said:
What? Shirow Masamune is a hentai artist? I only know of his work on Ghost in The Shell and Appleseed. I never knew he was a hentai artist.
Some pages are missing and some panels were altered in the US and European versions of Ghost in the Shell and Manmachine Interface that were borderline hentai originally. But he did real hentai stuff as well - tentacles and all.
 

Victrix

*beard*
I actually just recently found my GC memory card, that has my Path of Radiance save on it, at Chapter 18. Does anyone know where I can find a good story synopsis so I can catch back up? It's been awhile since I played, but I'd like to knock it off and move on to Radiant Dawn finally.
 
mjemirzian said:
I didn't say whether it was good or bad. And more options is not always 'a good thing'. There are pros and cons to 'more options'.

I said the wi-fi shop ruins the legitimacy of the games challenge because it makes the playing field uneven between players. This is a fact. The only legitimate FE challenges are FE 4-7 ranked playthroughs.

I agree, it is bothersome that you can use it easily. However avoiding it doesn't hurt, i didn't use it until the last level on the hardest mode in SD. It didn't help me much as I never passed that level :p.

I can't wait for this game, just hope for an early localization!
 

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
wsippel said:
Some pages are missing and some panels were altered in the US and European versions of Ghost in the Shell and Manmachine Interface that were borderline hentai originally. But he did real hentai stuff as well - tentacles and all.

You don't even know the half of it.

BlueWord said:
The fuck? I guess they're expecting a long tail on this one? I can't imagine them putting out any kind of useful marketing push this quickly.

This is not exactly new for Nintendo.

I guess it is new for Fire Emblem, though.
 
It's kind of bizarre that the first Fire Emblem for the DS actually looked worse than the ones on GBA. Stick to sprites please, Intelligent Systems.
 
In order for the score or result of a game to be legitimate, its rules must be standardized. There should be no way to reduce the amount of skill needed to score or pass the test without adversely affecting the score/result. The most common ways that a games rules become non-standardized are through pre-order/collectors edition in-game bonuses, DLC, optional stat grinding, and save/reload abuse. Any game that violates this rule is no longer a valid test of skill and should not be considered legitimate as a test of skill. There are two types of challenges in video games. Developer provided challenges, where the game reacts to the players actions such as rewarding a higher score or making the game more difficult, and player provided challenges, where the game does not react to the players actions either way. 'Choosing not to grind' in a game that doesn't punish grinding is a player defined challenge and thus isn't considered legitimate within the confines of the games rules. Stating "just don't use X" does not magically legitimize a games difficulty.
The thing is, very few hard games have standardized rules that limit the player so much that there ends up being only one way to play the game. Even games like Ninja Gaiden or Castlevania for the NES, I've found that a potential solution is to simply use the power ups the game provides to get past hard parts instead of relying on epic dodging and maneuvering ability. Megaman games have energy tanks and rush jet and stuff.

Shadow Dragon in particular, there's very few things that break the game. Forging, WiFi Shop, Sedgar/Wolf. It's not hard to ignore these if you simply want a hard game. Sometimes you just have to say, "You know what? This is too good I'm gonna go back to using every other option that I have to win."
 
neo2046 said:
There is also a bigger version of the boxart. The product code is of interest:
Code:
TSA-TWL-VI2J-JPN
What does TSA mean? TWL means DSi-enhanced (watch out importers who have a DSi). I cannot see any useful enhancements the DSi features could bring to FE. If anything the region locking it brings (for people who want to use their US or EU DSi) would be something to alienate the hardcore fanbase of the franchise.

Its nice to see some more polish appears to be going into this (it seems to have the relations chart like Radiant Dawn had).
 
There is some footage out

Chapter 4 I think that is. Given the Shadow Heroes/My Unit appearance there I'm guessing he had a prologue and acts as an extra character (kind of Norn and Frey...only you don't have to kill people this time :lol ). Hopefully he gets some side-missions where he is on his own (as in has his own party of characters...one of the screenshots showed him with a character who starred in FE1 but not FE3).

The only odd thing I noticed was Cecil (the Female Cavalier) as her haired seemed awfully red (though compression can kill colours). The SFC version of the game has the hair being pink but the official artwork has a red tint to the pink so it might be a case of correcting things.
 

ashism

Member
Cow Mengde said:
This game is actually animated unlike the poorly slapped together slideshows of the GBA games.
Lies! The GBA sprites were the coolest looking. Had way more flair in the animations, I thought.
 

Doorman

Member
Cow Mengde said:
This game is actually animated unlike the poorly slapped together slideshows of the GBA games.
Perhaps, but the whole thing comes across to me as having less energy and the fights look much less dynamic, regardless of actual animation smoothness. Just looking at the swordsman that attacks in that video (that is the My Unit, is it not?), he just steps forward and and swings down. Compared to the GBA mercs who would leap into the air and come down with a spinning slash, it's just not interesting to watch.

I mean, I know that a good deal of FE players turn off the battle animations anyway, but it was something I appreciated. Path of Radiance felt less compelling to me for the same reason, even if the gameplay itself was fine.
 
Cow Mengde said:
This game is actually animated unlike the poorly slapped together slideshows of the GBA games.

Pah. As far as as aesthetics goes the GBA games are still at the front of the pack.

... Which is a little sad come to think of it.
 
Starwolf_UK said:
There is also a bigger version of the boxart. The product code is of interest:
Code:
TSA-TWL-VI2J-JPN
What does TSA mean? TWL means DSi-enhanced (watch out importers who have a DSi). I cannot see any useful enhancements the DSi features could bring to FE. If anything the region locking it brings (for people who want to use their US or EU DSi) would be something to alienate the hardcore fanbase of the franchise.

Its nice to see some more polish appears to be going into this (it seems to have the relations chart like Radiant Dawn had).

Camera support? DLC? Possible I guess.

What is even more interesting is the TSA code. It couldn't be enhanced on the 3DS could it?
 
Cow Mengde said:
This game is actually animated unlike the poorly slapped together slideshows of the GBA games.

I find it hard to believe anyone, anyone, could defend the DS models against the GBA sprites. I know you're a big FE guy, but come on man.

I love FE, and will still definitely buy this, but I am disappointed with the lifeless 3D again.
 

MechaX

Member
Anonymous Tipster said:
I find it hard to believe anyone, anyone, could defend the DS models against the GBA sprites. I know you're a big FE guy, but come on man.

Well, he is correct: The DS versions have much more animation than the GBA sprites. With that said, I still think the GBA sprites are infinitely better to look at and have much more charm than the fugly DS ones.

Can't say too much about the SNES titles, though.
 
Anonymous Tipster said:
I find it hard to believe anyone, anyone, could defend the DS models against the GBA sprites. I know you're a big FE guy, but come on man.

I love FE, and will still definitely buy this, but I am disappointed with the lifeless 3D again.

I don't get why people say the DS game uses polygons. They definitely look like sprites to me. They're too smooth to be polygons with how limited the DS's polygonal power.

I find it strange anyone can defend the atrocious GBA sprites. They looks great standing still, but horrible in action. Not all of them, but the level of consistency is just awful. Sacred Stones had the best animation, the newer sprites with the older sprite contrast is huge in FE8. Just watch Valter fight Seth in the intro and you'll notice how badly Seth's Paladin is animated compared to the Wyvern Knight.

The GBA sprite cheat by tweening the frames with action lines, while the DS sprites are actually animated frame by frame. Even just standing there you can see little details like the horse's tail swaying with an accurate shadow. Let's not forget how awkward some of the shit looks in the GBA games. The Berserker's attack is absurd. To this very day I have no idea WTF is Eliwood doing in his Durandal critical animation. I even went so far as to look at the sprite sheets.

I wasn't a huge fan of the GBA sprites like most of you since I was exposed to Fire Emblem on the SNES. I started to absolutely detest it in Sacred Stones when a friend of mine pointed out how the new sprites had better animation than the older FE6-7 sprites.
 

Cep

Banned
I get what you are saying, but most people see much more than the animation quality.

The GBA sprites had more color, detail, more personality when compared to the newer spites (which I think may actually be polygons).

I mean sure, they were severely lacking when it comes to animation, but that is mainly compared to the superb SNES sprites.
 

Prax

Member
Those animations need more speed and flair. Because of how slow they are and lack of exaggerated style, they look quite cumbersome or boring. Sure, it "better animated" considering technical merits, but it's still pretty ugly.

Despite the GBA FE's lack of consistency between some animations, the way they were stylized made up for the choppiness.

In any case, I hope this may be the last we have seen of this type of animation, and they ramp it up greatly for the FE4/5 remake, because that's where things get awesome with inheritance and skills, and actual significant gameplay and story changes with hooking characters up!
 

Cep

Banned
Prax said:
Those animations need more speed and flair. Because of how slow they are and lack of exaggerated style, they look quite cumbersome or boring. Sure, it "better animated" considering technical merits, but it's still pretty ugly.

Despite the GBA FE's lack of consistency between some animations, the way they were stylized made up for the choppiness.

In any case, I hope this may be the last we have seen of this type of animation, and they ramp it up greatly for the FE4/5 remake, because that's where things get awesome with inheritance and skills, and actual significant gameplay and story changes with hooking characters up!

I really wish Fire Emblem 4 had been the point at which the remakes started, compared to 4/5, 1-3 are really dull.
 
Cow Mengde said:
I don't get why people say the DS game uses polygons. They definitely look like sprites to me. They're too smooth to be polygons with how limited the DS's polygonal power.

I find it strange anyone can defend the atrocious GBA sprites. They looks great standing still, but horrible in action. Not all of them, but the level of consistency is just awful. Sacred Stones had the best animation, the newer sprites with the older sprite contrast is huge in FE8. Just watch Valter fight Seth in the intro and you'll notice how badly Seth's Paladin is animated compared to the Wyvern Knight.

The GBA sprite cheat by tweening the frames with action lines, while the DS sprites are actually animated frame by frame. Even just standing there you can see little details like the horse's tail swaying with an accurate shadow. Let's not forget how awkward some of the shit looks in the GBA games. The Berserker's attack is absurd. To this very day I have no idea WTF is Eliwood doing in his Durandal critical animation. I even went so far as to look at the sprite sheets.

I wasn't a huge fan of the GBA sprites like most of you since I was exposed to Fire Emblem on the SNES. I started to absolutely detest it in Sacred Stones when a friend of mine pointed out how the new sprites had better animation than the older FE6-7 sprites.

They mean that the sprites are pre-rendered (which they are). That's also why they can get much smoother animation, since they don't have to bother drawing each frame (they just get it from the 3D animation frames)
 
Cep said:
The GBA sprites had more color, detail, more personality when compared to the newer spites (which I think may actually be polygons).

I don't deny the color and personality part. The FEDS sprites aren't perfect, but the GBA sprites also has a level of awkwardness that makes them so hated. The way the Berserker attacks (NOT the Hawkeye version though), the awkward NES run back and forth, and just the lack of attention to detail to the entire fight scene. In the SNES game, you can reveal more of the scenery if a character jumps high enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LZLZ-Zeblw&feature=related

Watch at the end how you can see the chandelier on the ceiling. This is animation. That video didn't even show off all the possible critical attacks from a Sword Master. Now compare it to this shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmJHJY71Gag&feature=related
 
I don't get the hate around the DS Fire Emblem graphics. I like them, they suit the atmosphere of Marth's world better. I get sick of seeing the same types of sprites/models (even though I love the GBA sprites). Sometimes, vibrant color just gets old. Anyways, I'm very excited about this title. I never have played this game untranslated, so I can't wait to enjoy this game. I also love how you create your own character that is a important character throughout the game.
 
2010/07/15 [DS] [1] [2] [3] Fire Emblem: Shin Monshou no Nazo Hikari to Kage no Eiyuu

The next entry in the Fire Emblem series is a remake of the new content in Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem, also known as Fire Emblem 3 for SNES. The English translation of this title is Fire Emblem: New Mystery of the Emblem - Heroes of Shadow and Light. However I doubt the official English name will be so wordy. Most of the details about the game are now official, so let's get started.

The original SNES title contains 21 original chapters, which is a bit slim for a main Fire Emblem entry. Thankfully, Nintendo is adding a new story for "My Unit", a character you create and customize to your liking, including class, appearance, and background. Your personalized unit will star in the tutorial prologue, fight alongside Marth in the main story, and engage in their own side chapters throughout the game. In addition, 4 trial maps from the SNES Satellaview releases will be included. This should push the number of chapters to an acceptable level, somewhere between 30-35.

Your personalized unit will be able to talk to others in your army during intermission, although it's not clear if there are any rewards for doing so. There will be over 300 conversations available throughout the main story. This is akin to the Base Conversations of Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. Much like FE: Shadow Dragon, the interpersonal character guide will return, plotting out how every person is related in the Fire Emblem story. There will be characters added to the game from Shadow Dragon, the Satellaview maps, in addition to completely new characters to the series.

006.PNG
g005.jpg


The reclassing system will return, where you can change a characters class and alter their base stats and growth rates. Hopefully it's a bit more balanced than it was in FE:SD. Gaiden chapters featuring your personalized unit will be available provided you meet certain requirements, which probably don't involve killing off more than half your army this time around, like you had to in FE: Shadow Dragon. I'm sure the developers have heard the sentiment of disgruntled fans who didn't like the lack of character development, personality-erasing reclassing, and having to kill off most of your army to access the side chapters, and it looks like the developers are working hard to address those complaints.

Wi-Fi returns with a couple new features. You'll be able to download new maps from Nintendo, both multiplayer skirmishes and single player chapters. The DLC single player maps will include new story content, not just trial maps with no plot development. You can trade characters with other players, although I'm not sure what the details on this are. The online store will be returning, which is one of the things I really disliked about FE: Shadow Dragon. You can go online and buy very rare items and ruin the games balance and difficulty, and you have to wait for a specific time of the month to buy the item you want.

009.jpg
014.jpg


Keeping with Nintendo's philosophy of catering to a wide range of player skill levels, there are now two difficulty altering settings available. New to the series are the addition of Casual and Classic modes. In Casual mode, if a unit reaches 0 HP, they will not die permanently, while Classic mode is the typical Fire Emblem permadeath feature. There are four difficulty settings, Normal, Hard, Maniac, and Lunatic. The two difficulty mechanics are independent of one another, so you can play Casual mode on Lunatic difficulty if you choose.

I have not heard anything about a score or ranking system, so I'm guessing there isn't one. That means this games challenges are not legitimate because you can boss/arena abuse, use the online store, etc. and ruin the games difficulty. I appreciate the extra difficulty modes, but they are pointless when you can spend infinite turns on a chapter farming XP and weapon skill, or going online and buying rare, powerful items that are only available once a month. And who knows how wi-fi unit swapping will upset the balance of the game? We're far removed from the legitimate rank based challenges of older Fire Emblem titles.

b002.jpg
b007.jpg


Graphically, the game looks a lot like the Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon. It uses the same sprites and character art. Whether you like it or not, it seems like it's here to stay on the DS.

As you may already know, Fire Emblem and Advance Wars set the gold standard for tactical turn based strategy user interfaces. They are always extremely responsive and packed with useful features and management tools. I've seen quite a few tactical level games botch the UI and make the game a drag to play. Not so here. Expect the same polished quality that Intelligent Systems has been delivering for decades.

Import gamers may be unhappy to learn that the game may be 'DSi Enhanced', which means it will be region encoded if you try to play it on a DSi system. You'll be fine if you play it on a regular DS or DS Lite, however.

Overall this looks like another solid Fire Emblem title, difficulty issues not withstanding. It should please fans who were soured on Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon, and the new casual mode should bring in more sales, appeal, and fans of the series. Look forward to import impressions once I've spent some time with the game.
 

McNum

Member
Yeah, I like the sound of this one. It looks like they've taken care of the main faults I found in Shadow Dragon. Except the online store. I'll probably use it anyway. It's in the game, after all.

I didn't hate the SD animatins, I just found them pretty plain. Sure, hold back on the flashiness on the base classes, but let the promoted ones cut loose. I just spent a valuable magic item to get them like that, I want them to be awesome both in stats and in style. I'll happily admit that I've kept a few sub-par characters around simply because they were stylish in earlier games.
 
So I looked through the official site updates and noticed the following:
I noticed in the promotion video it shows Mercenary>Hero and Hero has an A rank in Axes. Mistake (left some debug on) or intended (getting round "no playable axe users in FE3", though reclassing could also do that).

Also, it seems the My Unit prologue maps have different map and battle themes (makes me wonder what they'll do for BSFE maps; they did acknowledge one of the songs in the FE3 music section of fire emblem world though I think those tracks that were picked were the favourites of the composer).
 
I think Heroes have been able to use axes since FE5 (although in that game they were Mercenaries, but considering the class they promoted from, it's the same thing) so it probably wasn't a mistake. They definitely could use axes in FE11.
 
Pureauthor said:
I wonder if they plan to go entirely down the line with all the old games.

One can only hope.

As someone who has played all of the (non-BS) Fire Emblems, I feel that I have to temper expectations a bit. Fire Emblem 7: Rekka No Ken, the game known simply as "Fire Emblem" and the first in the series released in the US, is widely considered to be the best in the series. Sure, some people will say 5 or maybe even 6, but 7 is the clear consensus. So though everyone should remain hyped for these forthcoming remakes, please judge them on their own right; 7 is a really hard standard to live up to. This remake, no matter how good, is not going to be better than arguably the best SRPG of all time.

The older Fire Emblems are really, really good and its awesome that Western gamers will finally be able to experience them. Personally, I am super hyped that Nintendo has decided to do this, and not just let the series' classics rot a la Mother 3.

farnham said:

Ho ho ho!

I will finally get to play this. Only one I haven't played. Hype x20!
 
I didn't think anyone really considered 6 the best. It's always seemed like the consensus is split between 4, 5, and 7, with Japan generally loving 3. But I do agree that it's always bothered me when some people judge every game on the series based on 7.

I think 5 gives 7 some really stiff competition, though.
 
Sir Ilpalazzo said:
I didn't think anyone really considered 6 the best. It's always seemed like the consensus is split between 4, 5, and 7, with Japan generally loving 3. But I do agree that it's always bothered me when some people judge every game on the series based on 7.

I think 5 gives 7 some really stiff competition, though.

6 is the trendy pick because some people really really like Roy :lol

Eh, most of the time I don't see much of a split. Its generally 7>>>5>4/6 pretty solidly, and then a mismash of the rest. But, whatever, either way, 7 is the gold standard that a lot of people use for comparison, and its not really fair; there are very few games that compare to FE7.

Western gamers got spoiled because it was their first game of the series :/
 

ShinNL

Member
Cow Mengde said:
I don't deny the color and personality part. The FEDS sprites aren't perfect, but the GBA sprites also has a level of awkwardness that makes them so hated. The way the Berserker attacks (NOT the Hawkeye version though), the awkward NES run back and forth, and just the lack of attention to detail to the entire fight scene. In the SNES game, you can reveal more of the scenery if a character jumps high enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LZLZ-Zeblw&feature=related

Watch at the end how you can see the chandelier on the ceiling. This is animation. That video didn't even show off all the possible critical attacks from a Sword Master. Now compare it to this shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmJHJY71Gag&feature=related
This is the most bullshit comparison ever. Why did you link to a low quality video of someone playing on an emulator who didn't even properly record all the frames!?????!!! (GAH!)

That's extremely sad if you have to win an argument that way.

Compare your nonsense video to this properly recorded video of the GBA FE's!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tibhK8tjLyI

Don't you dare hate on GBA FE sprites D:
fireemblemwall.jpg

mywall.jpg
 
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