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Is Sony missing the point of hardware upgrades?

S

SpokkX

Member
So the ps4 pro apparenty has two hardware modes. One base mode which actually lowers the clock speed and one pro mode with higher speed.

Yes they actually lower the clock speed when running ps4 native titles

Think about this for a minute.

is sonys api that talks to the hardware REALLY that fragile so they dont dare let ps4 games use that extra gpu/cpu?

Imagine if your new iphone 7 actually clocked down to run apps developed for iphone 5.. because well? Stability?

Now look at Microsoft. Even the modestly upgraded XbS improves existing titles framerates. It just works

Look at pc

Look at android devices

Etc

They all handle hardware upgrades smoothly and the software just works and runs better

Why is Sony really clocking down the ps4 pro? Imo it seems their os/api is not trustworthy enough. What other reason could it be?
 
I

inner-G

Banned
Unpatched games were designed to run at one specific clock speed. Patched games and new games will be designed to accommodate both.

PC/Mobile games are designed to run across multiple devices from the get-go.

I think that's the reason.
 
Muffdraul

Muffdraul

Member
I think they got it right for a very narrow band of customers, which I happen to be a part of. I don't plan on upgrading to a 4K TV for some time, so the lack of 4K blu-ray and the fact that many (most?) games won't do true native 4K doesn't bother me. I just like the idea of more horsepower for better performance than the PS4 I've been playing on for three years. I don't think it was a particularly smart move for them, though.
 
R

ronaldthump

Member
its for 4k+PSVr upgrade. No one's done a post for it but the spatial 3D stuff in there was

"New ID buffer for tracking triangles and objects, opening the door to advanced spatial and temporal anti-aliasing

Primitive discard accelerator culls triangles from the scene that aren't visible"
 
S

Snefer

Member
actually, some games that run on fixed hardware actually use that to its advantage, you can assume things about the framerate and if you would then change the framerate you could break the game logic. So it actually makes perfect sense for unpatched games.
 
A

ArkhamFantasy

Member
inner-G said:
Unpatched games were designed to run at one specific clock speed. Patched games and new games will be designed to accommodate both.

PC/Mobile games are designed to run across multiple devices from the get-go.

I think that's the reason.
Click to expand...

Yup, Cerny talked about this.
 
E

Elios83

Member
Makes perfect sense to guarantee perfect compatibility with old games.
You made the perfect example,I don't want this to be like a smartphone where old apps don't work on the new model until they upgrade/patch them.
Upgrades are for future games and specifically patches old titles.
 
K

Krusenstern

Banned
SpokkX said:
Yes they actually lower the clock speed when running ps4 native titles

Think about this for a minute.
Click to expand...

SHIT. Really? Were did they say this? I haven't heard this one yet.
My biggest hope was that vanilla games will run at a more stable performance because of the stronger hardware.

The PS4 Pro now downclocks in these games?

Snefer said:
actually, some games that run on fixed hardware actually use that to its advantage, you can assume things about the framerate and if you would then change the framerate you could break the game logic. So it actually makes perfect sense for unpatched games.
Click to expand...

An unpatched game that is set to run at 30 fps won't break just because the newer hardware could allow certain sections to run at 30 fps instead of 22 fps.
 
S

SpokkX

Member
Snefer said:
actually, some games that run on fixed hardware actually use that to its advantage, you can assume things about the framerate and if you would then change the framerate you could break the game logic. So it actually makes perfect sense for unpatched games.
Click to expand...

Yeah sure but it does not seem to be an issue for microsoft. But why would sonys api even allow you to be dependant on specific hardware specs?
 
S

Sephiroth_VII

Member
inner-G said:
Unpatched games were designed to run at one specific clock speed. Patched games and new games will be designed to accommodate both.

PC/Mobile games are designed to run across multiple devices from the get-go.

I think that's the reason.
Click to expand...
I would agree, but then I don't understand how Microsoft pulled off the One S.
 
E

etta

my hard graphic balls
Krusenstern said:
SHIT. Really? Were did they say this? I haven't heard this one yet.
My biggest hope was that vanilla games will run at a more stable performance because of the stronger hardware.

The PS4 Pro now downclocks in these games?
Click to expand...
Yea, Xbox doesn't break any compatibility, the only way this would is if the API wasn't designed with that in mind.
 
I

inner-G

Banned
Krusenstern said:
An unpatched game that is set to run at 30 fps won't break just because the newer hardware could allow certain sections to run at 30 fps instead of 22 fps.
Click to expand...
I'm no programmer, but I would think throwing software designed around a specific platform onto one with differently clocked chips and pools of memory that didn't exist before could make it behave erratically.

Sephiroth_VII said:
I would agree, but then I don't understand how Microsoft pulled off the One S.
Click to expand...
If Xone games are UWP Windows apps at heart, they probably scale across different hardware pretty handily.
 
S

SpokkX

Member
etta said:
Yea, Xbox doesn't break any compatibility, the only way this would is if the API wasn't designed with that in mind.
Click to expand...

Yes this is my point.

Basically Sonys api must not be very well designed
Does not bode well for eventual backwards companility with ps5 etc
 
S

sun-drop

Member
i think the OP is missing the point re console generations.

we haven't moved to the yearly upgreade PC cycle that MS seem so intent on doing by cannibalizing Xb for their PC platform.


sony is sticking to the game plan, PS5 to come in 3 years or so time and be the traditional giant leap we expect from new HW.

slow yr roll.
 
BigEmil

BigEmil

Junior Member
sun-drop said:
i think the OP is missing the point re console generations.

we haven't moved to the yearly upgreade PC cycle that MS seem so intent on doing by cannibalizing Xb for their PC platform.


sony is sticking to the game plan, PS5 to come in 3 years or so time and be the traditional giant leap we expect from new HW.

slow yr roll.
Click to expand...
.
 
R

robotrock

Banned
SpokkX said:
Imagine if your new iphone 7 actually clocked down to run apps developed for iphone 5.. because well? Stability?
Click to expand...

I wish my iPhone did this to be honest, for games that haven't been updated for the new iOS. Every time a new major iOS update comes out I guarantee you it breaks several of my iPhone JRPGs
 
D

dragonzdogma

Member
Elios83 said:
Makes perfect sense to guarantee perfect compatibility with old games.
You made the perfect example,I don't want this to be like a smartphone where old apps don't work on the new model until they upgrade/patch them.
Upgrades are for future games and specifically patches old titles.
Click to expand...

I'm gona sound like a total nut here I'm sure,
but will it be possible for users to mod or patch games by themselves to run at better frame rate.

Example bloodborne ?
 
93xfan

93xfan

Banned
It's a real disappointment imo. Every developer should at least do the free patch so they can get a better COU/GPU clock speed.
 
Unknown?

Unknown?

Member
etta said:
Yea, Xbox doesn't break any compatibility, the only way this would is if the API wasn't designed with that in mind.
Click to expand...
Xbox doesn't have any upgraded hardware just a mild upclock. It's not anywhere near the same. This thread is the epitome of ignorance.
 
D

DieH@rd

Banned
Is Sony missing the point of hardware upgrades?
Click to expand...

No. They have chosen to stick with regular generations, while offering a nicely upgraded [optional] console at mid point of a gen.

PS5 will be much stronger console and a clean break for making NEW games [but with BC for old PS4 titles].

That's a viable strategy.
 
T

The Real Napsta

Member
Elios83 said:
Makes perfect sense to guarantee perfect compatibility with old games.
You made the perfect example,I don't want this to be like a smartphone where old apps don't work on the new model until they upgrade/patch them.
Upgrades are for future games and specifically patches old titles.
Click to expand...
What about Xbox One and Xbox One S though? It proves it can be done right.
 
S

Sephiroth_VII

Member
inner-G said:
I'm no programmer, but I would think throwing software designed around a specific platform onto one with differently clocked chips and pools of memory that didn't exist before could make it behave erratically.


If Xone games are UWP Windows apps at heart, they probably scale across different hardware pretty handily.
Click to expand...
So your guess is that the UWP-platform simply doesn't allow developers to use those tricks? Could be it, I guess.
 
D

DudeWithNoName

Member
DieH@rd said:
No. They have chosen to stick with regular generations, while offering a nicely upgraded [optional] console at mid point of a gen.

PS5 will be much stronger console and a clean break for making NEW games [but with BC for old PS4 titles].

That's a viable strategy.
Click to expand...
You sure about that BC?
 
C

Coolbgdog12

Member
NeoMetallix said:
Xbox doesn't have any upgraded hardware just a mild upclock. It's not anywhere near the same. This thread is the epitome of ignorance.
Click to expand...

I have no idea why people think The Xbox S encompasses some big tangible hardware boost. It's something like 1-3 fps extra sometimes in some games. It's really not even something worth mentioning as a talking point. It's just silly.
 
K

kiguel182

Member
Buying a console without even knowing how games will differ seems weird to me.

At least if I buy a new PC I know what will improve. Here is all up to the devs.

As a PS4 owner I see no reason to buy a pro and if I wanted to spend 400 euros I would put them towards a gaming PC instead.
 
A

Always-honest

Banned
Air Zombie Meat said:
No, I wanted to know if you would see any benefit with old ps4 titles.
Click to expand...

Ah right. Yeah well, this remark did post some reservations but i guess the Pro can run them flawlessly any way. Any upgrade is up to the dev through a patch.
Cerny says they want the 700 existing titles to work flawlessly,
 
B

Budi

Member
Am I going crazy or are people replying to entirely different thing than what this thread is about?
 
C

chronic_archaic

Member
Stability reasons - you can run the New 3DS at higher clock all the time with homebrew and it works - for most games. That's the key thing, if it's not 100% compatible you can't just let it run like that.
 
C

cakely

Member
SpokkX said:
Yes this is my point.

Basically Sonys api must not be very well designed
Does not bode well for eventual backwards companility with ps5 etc
Click to expand...

That's a terrific conclusion you just came to there.

Companility is very important.
 
K

Kinyou

Member
Seriously? So we wont even see a performance boost similar to what the xbox one s did? Not sure I'll be buying that thing now.
 
K

Krusenstern

Banned
Just read the Digital Foundry article. Jesus fuck.

Lack of 4k Blu-Ray is something I couldn't care less about, but this forced downclocking has me riled up. I was so looking forward to play Bloodborne at a more stable performance.

Whatever Microsoft is achieving is apparently too much for Sony to pull off.
tumblr_mr3eydxxep1qj6xu1o1_500.gif
 
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