WHOAguitarninja
Member
Blizzard said:
STALKER has lean and shoot. Atleast CoP did. Haven't played the others in awhile.
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S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 under development - multiplatform
- Thread starter Foliorum Viridum
- Start date
STALKER has lean and shoot. Atleast CoP did. Haven't played the others in awhile.
Well yeah, but like I said, I'm almost positive some games don't let me shoot while doing that. I feel like I -should- be able to shoot, otherwise I'd almost rather not use the lean.John said:
If you can use ((lean || cover) && shoot) in a game, then I'm probably happy with either combination.Blizzard said:Well yeah, but like I said, I'm almost positive some games don't let me shoot while doing that. I feel like I -should- be able to shoot, otherwise I'd almost rather not use the lean.
RTCW is the only game I can think of that doesn't let you lean and shoot.
jim-jam bongs
Member
charlequin said:
This is true, although I think that it's worth remembering that Bioware began the process of streamlining for consoles many years ago. Given that GSC haven't made a console game before, they do get some benefit of the doubt. My point has always been that this is what usually happens when a PC dev goes console, not that it's inevitable.
As an aside though, Stalker was originally a far more ambitious game. The world was much more openly explorable, and didn't use choke points to move between areas. Also, it had a full vehicle system and a much grander scale geographically. When THQ started to get nervous about the game being another Duke Nukem Forever, they allegedly sent some people over to GSC to cut back on the ambition and force the game out the door.
The game we they delivered was fantastic, of course, and I don't think that it suffered much if at all from having things removed.
I still remember wandering around in the zone, with 2 AK-47 bullets, a messed up gun and half a handgrenade. STALKER was tense, scary and awesome and I also fear the future of the series with this multi-platform nonsense.
Also you don't know Red Orchestra, untill you're stuck in a ditch, with a rifle, sniping german soldiers who come charging at you out of a smokescreen. The game is incredible, none of this machine gun spraying or health regeneration bullshit. You, your enemy and pray to whatever you believe in that you shoot before he does and that you actually hit something miles away that you can barely see.
Also you don't know Red Orchestra, untill you're stuck in a ditch, with a rifle, sniping german soldiers who come charging at you out of a smokescreen. The game is incredible, none of this machine gun spraying or health regeneration bullshit. You, your enemy and pray to whatever you believe in that you shoot before he does and that you actually hit something miles away that you can barely see.
SonOfABeep
Banned
So, what we've learned today kids is that the mouth-breathing consolites can't possibly handle a game that doesn't heal you every 10 seconds or point a large arrow on the screen for where you should go to spray your bullets, nor should they EVER be given the opportunity to experience or try something that isn't directly copying call of duty or gears of war.
Is that about it? Get over yourselves. This topic makes me ashamed. Looking forward to playing the game, whenever it comes out. If it runs on the PC I have at the time, I'll play it on that, otherwise I'll play it on console.
Last Bit-
As an aside the problems with Deux Ex 2 went beyond technical. That game was a pile, because of developer choices, nothing to do with hardware.
I'm not familiar enough with any game in the series to comment so I won't.
This is one I really don't understand. What complex game mechanics were lost between the deep and technical shooter F.E.A.R. and it's sequel? I played both and they seemed to both be equally as mindless as anything ever released on a console. From what I understand many of the complaints about the sequel seemed to be about lack of improvement from the original and a feeling of being dated. Not exactly a case for this complaint about modernizing and consolizing games.
I'd also point to the few mediocre F.E.A.R 1 expansions as a sign that that series was headed in the dumpster, and that the developer made an arguably better, slower paced, and more tense horror game AFTER making fear and debuted it for the xbox 360's launch, but that wouldn't point out the consolite conspiracy that seeks to ruin everything!
More than anything it's increased budgets and decreased interest in the PC as a gaming platform you kids want to be mad at. But that's not as fun or easy as pointing the finger at the controller, so you're not likely to stop.
Is that about it? Get over yourselves. This topic makes me ashamed. Looking forward to playing the game, whenever it comes out. If it runs on the PC I have at the time, I'll play it on that, otherwise I'll play it on console.
Last Bit-
Ignore the 8 years and all the potential technical, talent, influences, and market changes therein between releases. Ignore the relative budget sizes for SS2 vs Bioshock. Just focus on that one was released on console, and the other was planned to, but never got there.
You've got a point here. Limited (at the time) console memory did force smaller level designs in the sequel. But in 2010 this issue is mitigated by modern console hardware being much more comparable comparable to mid-spec PC gaming hardware, even this late in a console life-cycle. Partly due to economic concerns, but partly also due to decreased market demand for better hardware.
As an aside the problems with Deux Ex 2 went beyond technical. That game was a pile, because of developer choices, nothing to do with hardware.
I'm not familiar enough with any game in the series to comment so I won't.
This is one I really don't understand. What complex game mechanics were lost between the deep and technical shooter F.E.A.R. and it's sequel? I played both and they seemed to both be equally as mindless as anything ever released on a console. From what I understand many of the complaints about the sequel seemed to be about lack of improvement from the original and a feeling of being dated. Not exactly a case for this complaint about modernizing and consolizing games.
I'd also point to the few mediocre F.E.A.R 1 expansions as a sign that that series was headed in the dumpster, and that the developer made an arguably better, slower paced, and more tense horror game AFTER making fear and debuted it for the xbox 360's launch, but that wouldn't point out the consolite conspiracy that seeks to ruin everything!
More than anything it's increased budgets and decreased interest in the PC as a gaming platform you kids want to be mad at. But that's not as fun or easy as pointing the finger at the controller, so you're not likely to stop.
Let's please refrain from mental breakdowns over conflating "pc games going multiplatform leads to streamlining and an inferior result" with "LOLOL CONSOLE GAMERS ARE MORONS."
Several people have already lashed out over the latter when it's not even being said.
Several people have already lashed out over the latter when it's not even being said.
jim-jam bongs
Member
SonOfABeep said:
I know that I'm talking to a dead man, but what the hell.
To the best of my knowledge, System Shock 2 was never destined for consoles. I might be wrong, but I'll need some evidence of that before I take SonOfABeep's word for it. And that's beside the point anyway. It was never designed as a multiplatform title. Ever. It was always designed as a PC game. Any plans to port it to consoles have no relevance to this discussion.
Deus Ex:IW did indeed have a lot of scope removed to fit the memory constraints of the Xbox, as you admitted. But as Ceebs pointed out, there is no way that a PS3 or 360 can even begin to compete with a half-decent gaming PC. I've been running a 8800GTX since 2007 and it's always run rings around consoles. Let's ignore the fact that most gamers are running 4GB or more of memory these days. Shit, my work laptop I'm typing this on has 6GB of RAM.
Since you don't know anything about Thief, I'll help you out. The same issues which affected DX:IW were present in the last Thief game. Thief was always about sprawling levels with multiple points of entry, and that was almost completely lost in the Thief 3. Again, this issue of platform power is still absolutely relevant in this day and age.
And F.E.A.R. 2 removed leaning and more subtle control options in favour of making the game a cookie-cutter FPS. Lean alone is a massive loss, as it removes one of the most important tools in the tactical gamer's arsenal and turns it into a stop and pop shooter. Also, QTEs.
I really don't get why every thread like this gets so pissy. I think that some people have been taking the "PC gaming master race" jokes seriously instead of recognising them as an ironic joke about how PC gamers see themselves.
Aaron said:
Interesting, I'm going to grab CoP when my m11x arrives in the next few weeks so I'll be keen to see the differences.
EviLore said:
Cover system is pretty much the same except for blindfire and sticky cover (they made it sticky in KZ3) but they advanced in movement and gunplay department with a lot of neat stuff like changing radius of fire of a heavy machinegun while it is standing on the floor or that your weapon can stuck against some obstacles like doorframe.
But we were talking about cover system. And as we'll know when cover system is in-game this means that it was consolified to death! Also see regenerating health. This is further consolification even considering the fact that your health slowly regenerates in all STALKER games if you're not wounded or hungry.
The STALKER formula will definitely need to be altered to suit console players. The shooting mechanics especially, the fact the game doesn't pause when you go to your inventory, just missing all the keys of the keyboard you need to move and act quickly. It doesn't mean it'll be dumbed down or lesser game though, considering the power of current consoles. The X-Ray engine is fairly sloppy though. It remains to be seen if GSC can actually code an engine that will run well on consoles. I'm expecting the level of change on par with going from Crysis to Crysis 2.
BobsRevenge
I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
Uhh... of course it will. How is that even in question? :lolChacranajxy said:
It has to. At the very least it will be like Morrowind => Oblivion style dumbing down.
The X-ray engine gets more flak than I think it deserves. It's an engine that was designed for single core processors, as that was all that was had when it was created, and that's the direction the prevailing knowledge at the time said CPU's would continue to go down.
I don't think many foresaw the challenge with heat CPU's were going to have going past 3ish GHz, nor the current solution of just adding more cores.
I don't think many foresaw the challenge with heat CPU's were going to have going past 3ish GHz, nor the current solution of just adding more cores.
Poimandres
Member
I really love STALKER. I played a little unmodded SOC, then started fresh with Complete 2009. I haven't finished the game yet, but something about the world keeps drawing me back in even though I have piles of newer games sitting comparatively unplayed.
Like most, I have concerns the game might be compromised due to multiplatform development. But it doesn't necessarily need to be! Let's face it, while it has its charms the engine was already dated by the time SOC was released- I see no reason why a new engine won't be able to have superior visuals, comporable area sizes and all the rest on current gen consoles.
I also think there is a market for uncompromising, dangerous worlds on console. Although I haven't played it, Demon's Souls was praised for exactly this reason by critics and consumers. I'm hoping that GSC are aware that this is a vital part of the STALKER experience.
Lastly, with all the talk of Deus Ex being butchered with Invisible War... wasn't the PS2 port of the original a decent representation? I never played it, but that's what I recall the consensus was.
Like most, I have concerns the game might be compromised due to multiplatform development. But it doesn't necessarily need to be! Let's face it, while it has its charms the engine was already dated by the time SOC was released- I see no reason why a new engine won't be able to have superior visuals, comporable area sizes and all the rest on current gen consoles.
I also think there is a market for uncompromising, dangerous worlds on console. Although I haven't played it, Demon's Souls was praised for exactly this reason by critics and consumers. I'm hoping that GSC are aware that this is a vital part of the STALKER experience.
Lastly, with all the talk of Deus Ex being butchered with Invisible War... wasn't the PS2 port of the original a decent representation? I never played it, but that's what I recall the consensus was.
Poimandres
Member
Ceebs said:
Sure, some might have disliked it, but it was definitely seen as a positive by a lot of people. Another good example would be the Ninja Gaiden games.
On the basis of these games, there's definitely a market for "unforgiving" on consoles.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Poimandres said:
It's less about whether the audience will accept it and more about the perception of the publisher though. I didn't follow the games, but did Ninja Gaiden and Demon's Souls sell well?
charlequin
Banned
jim-jam bongs said:
Demon's Souls was Atlus USA's best-selling game ever and is one of the ten (five?) best-selling JRPGs in the US this generation. That number is like 300-400k or something, but still, pretty decently, at least.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Cheers guys. Seems a shame that more publishers won't take the risk since it's clearly possible to sell and be difficult and/or complex. Fingers crossed that we get a proper multiplatform Stalker!
MDSLKTR
Member
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
It's good to hear this won't go the Crysis 2 route with the multiplatform focus.
I agree that the underground sections are horrific. More places like that can only be a good thing.
I'm really eager to see this new engine. I started CoP a few days ago and although it's ugly in places, at times it verges on photorealism.
I agree that the underground sections are horrific. More places like that can only be a good thing.
I'm really eager to see this new engine. I started CoP a few days ago and although it's ugly in places, at times it verges on photorealism.
Dick Laurent
Member
haha yeah. the underground parts to stalker games are almost as bad for me as underwater parts in any game. total phobia
Dick Laurent
Member
well. we don't know yet if the fundamental designs of the game haven't been touched by them thinking about console versions aswell this time. hopefully it will be like Bohemia and ArmA 2 hehe, doing the PC version first and going in so deep that the undertaking of scaling it back for console was so big that it is just not ever happening.DennisK4 said:
MarshMellow96
Member
IIRC the prior games haven't exactly been load-free. To call it a corridor shooter would be jumping the gun a bit.
That said, it will be nice to play STALKER without it breaking, tbh.
That said, it will be nice to play STALKER without it breaking, tbh.
rollingstart
Banned
The underground sections are kinda scary but the situation prepares you to brace for whatever happens. The scariest moments in stalker, mostly in CoP, are when you choose to avoid fighting powerful mutants because you know they'll wreck you. I remember seeing two mutants murdering a group of people in the distance and taking a long path to avoid them because I knew it would be a tough fight in my condition. It makes you feel so vulnerable.
CoP was basically three huge zones unlike the previous games that were broken up a bit more. I hope they stick with a similar structure.
CoP was basically three huge zones unlike the previous games that were broken up a bit more. I hope they stick with a similar structure.
boiled goose
good with gravy
EviLore said:
:'(
The gunplay of stalker was great.you had to actually aim to shoot something... if you didn't u were toast.
Another thing separating the STALKER series from Western shooters who try to make you feel like a badass and have something awesome happen when you press a button. In STALKER you feel like a vulnerable and frail little thing in a dangerous world. At least initially.Linkzg said:
And yeah, there are definitely a lot of lessons they could learn from CoP. More open, more RPG.
This is my favorite game series of all time, and I was so disappointed to hear the new game was going to be multi-platform. The developers latest comments give me some hope that this won't just be a dumbed-down linear piece of crap that happens to look like STALKER... cough*metro2033*cough.
DennisK4 said:
Even in CoP, at the end of the game there are still things that you need to be very very careful of. I was running back from the X8 labs (so I was already in bad shape, needed med kits, gun repairs etc), at night in a thunderstorm, spotted the flashlights of some monolith and of course decided to go around them instead of dealing with a gunfight I would probably lose. Headed inside a nearby building only to find a CHIMERA of all things just walking around. So I did a real quick about face, and half-sprinted half-lumbered back to the safe house between cracks of lightning, monolith gunfire and the growls of the biggest meanest creature in the game. sogood.gif
BobsRevenge
I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
Maybe.Polk said:
kittoo
Cretinously credulous
Just finished STALKER:Shadow of Chernobyl. Wow! What an experience! It has got the best atmosphere I've ever seen in any game, only HL2 comes close.
Whats interesting is that its not the first time I tried to play it. I've tried it thrice earlier but the initial difficulty threw me off (also to be noted that then I wasnt into RPGs. Getting into RPGs and loving them taught me how to play STALKER a little better) but this time I kept playing and boy after first 2 hours its sheer awesomeness. It absolutely blew me away. I also installed Complete mod. The nights were so so amazing. The first time I saw night was when I slept in the middle of a ground while it was evening. And when I woke up, it kinda scared the shit out of me that I couldnt see more than 1-2 metre far! And that too cause there was a fire burning near me! Walking in the night, listening to mutant voices, closely monitoring radiation counter sound to avoid anamolies, seeing fire burning in house far away, seeing guys with torches moving far away while actually seeing only their torches move....the list goes on. The atmosphere so thick, the game so awesome!
Dying to see even glimpses of STALKER 2.
Whats interesting is that its not the first time I tried to play it. I've tried it thrice earlier but the initial difficulty threw me off (also to be noted that then I wasnt into RPGs. Getting into RPGs and loving them taught me how to play STALKER a little better) but this time I kept playing and boy after first 2 hours its sheer awesomeness. It absolutely blew me away. I also installed Complete mod. The nights were so so amazing. The first time I saw night was when I slept in the middle of a ground while it was evening. And when I woke up, it kinda scared the shit out of me that I couldnt see more than 1-2 metre far! And that too cause there was a fire burning near me! Walking in the night, listening to mutant voices, closely monitoring radiation counter sound to avoid anamolies, seeing fire burning in house far away, seeing guys with torches moving far away while actually seeing only their torches move....the list goes on. The atmosphere so thick, the game so awesome!
Dying to see even glimpses of STALKER 2.