-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Do you think next generation will finally be jaggy free?
- Thread starter Zombie James
- Start date
Buckethead
Banned
I don't care about jaggies/graphics.
I'd rather have less story, more gameplay, and the stories they do have with proper facial/mouth animation.
I'd rather have less story, more gameplay, and the stories they do have with proper facial/mouth animation.
no. there might not be jaggies if you sit 12-15 feet and have a smaller tv, but it's unlikely.
with the focus having shifted to motion controllers and cameras starting to play a bigger roll in lots of games, i think consoles will see less of a shift in graphics and we'll see more peripherals being bundled. if kinect takes off, i imagine we'll see something above a USB2.0 camera so that they can have a wide-angle, higher resolution camera to more easily resolve movements, something i'm guessing accounts for a lot of the limitations the current implementation has.
i expect move will probably be bundled in with the next ps3, and they'll pull out their kinect like tech to match.
based on what i know of nintendo, kinect doesn't really scare them, so god only knows what they have up their sleeves.
with the focus having shifted to motion controllers and cameras starting to play a bigger roll in lots of games, i think consoles will see less of a shift in graphics and we'll see more peripherals being bundled. if kinect takes off, i imagine we'll see something above a USB2.0 camera so that they can have a wide-angle, higher resolution camera to more easily resolve movements, something i'm guessing accounts for a lot of the limitations the current implementation has.
i expect move will probably be bundled in with the next ps3, and they'll pull out their kinect like tech to match.
based on what i know of nintendo, kinect doesn't really scare them, so god only knows what they have up their sleeves.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
no.
AA has been and will almost always been lower priority when it comes to a games visual fidelity. Developers will almost always favor higher resolutions, more plygons, more advanced shader effects, higher frame rates, etc, over AA.
So unless we hit a ceiling on that, or they find an extremely cheap way to do it, it's never going to a standard.
AA has been and will almost always been lower priority when it comes to a games visual fidelity. Developers will almost always favor higher resolutions, more plygons, more advanced shader effects, higher frame rates, etc, over AA.
So unless we hit a ceiling on that, or they find an extremely cheap way to do it, it's never going to a standard.
a Master Ninja
Member
Nirolak said:
IrishNinja
Member
Speevy said:
literally the first thought that came to mind. *sigh*
Plywood said:
this..this happened?
When one identifies with a brand and bases their own likes/dislikes on its characteristics ("console war" mentality), yes, you get plenty of people that argue for jaggies over true AA (not blur AA) because "it makes the graphics look sharper" (ugh, literally) or, conversely, argue for low resolution and bluriness over high resolution and clarity because "it helps hide the imperfections".
I just had to look up on Wikipedia about "Jaggies".I only knew the german word,"Treppeneffekt" (stair effect).
I once saw a comparison pic between no AA and full AA and it was a significant change,but normally I don't notice it.The only time I did was when I read about it five years ago and played Super Mario 64 shortly after.:lol
I once saw a comparison pic between no AA and full AA and it was a significant change,but normally I don't notice it.The only time I did was when I read about it five years ago and played Super Mario 64 shortly after.:lol
ShockingAlberto
Member
Jaggies ruined the look of Ultimate Ninja Storm 2.
If the PS4 can somehow erase those jaggies I will buy it.
If the PS4 can somehow erase those jaggies I will buy it.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Can't wait till bitches get nostalgic and jaggies become the new pixels
Next generation will focus on how good games can potentially look with the new hardware.
There will be no prime optimization generation, 60fps and jaggy-free gaming will not be the standard in the foreseeable future.
It's all about the graphics and how sharp/realistic they can look.
There will be no prime optimization generation, 60fps and jaggy-free gaming will not be the standard in the foreseeable future.
It's all about the graphics and how sharp/realistic they can look.
jim-jam bongs
Member
It's a nice thing to hope for, but I don't see any reason to think that anything to do with IQ will improve substantially across the board next console generation. Most developers will continue to insist on pushing that little bit farther in the flashy effects area than what the hardware can manage and sacrifice AA, framerate and resolution just as they always have. And until gamers stop getting their first impressions of games from screenshots and blurry videos online, nobody will really notice until it's too late and they've already bought the game.
Shai-Tan
Banned
jim-jam bongs said:
Naw. What we see right now is a hardware/engine limitation. Most 360 games are using 2xAA and in rare cases 4xAA (games like RE5 dynamically switch), however it's problematic to do with deferred rendering so you either get partial AA or no AA in some games. In previous ports due to the weak GPU PS3 ports have had no AA or blurry temporal AA. AA that works well in deferred is only recently becoming popular and that's with this very old current gen graphics tech in some cases using CPU rather than the GPU.
Some of the blurry is also due to lack of proper AF. I don't know if that's because of limitation on GPU or engine features like parallax mapping which prevent it from working similar to the deferred rendering issue (I'm guessing it will be solved by next gen)
MLAA has several shortcomings which prevent it from being the cure to aliasing, I'm sure that by next gen something better than MLAA will have come along such as a combination of traditional AA+MLAA working together or maybe even something more revolutionary as we never know what these devs are going to come up with.peakish said:
mescalineeyes
Banned
Zombie James said:Well, that's what I mean. MLAA on the new AMD cards, for example, come with negligible performance hits on most games:
teh fuck happened here? how do you get this little frames in sc2?
MarkMclovin
Member
I'll take some jaggies for 60fps.
BAW
Banned
Mr_Brit said:
Next gen is still quite a few years away, I expect there will be 2nd gen or 3rd gen MLAA developed by that time that will solve most of the problems while keeping the good parts (performance!). Therefore, I expect next gen to make full use of it and deliver a jag-free experience.
Always-honest
Banned
oh god i hope so. I really do. I hope and pray to god that Nintendo will have their shit together graphicly. I love their games, but they look like shit on a HD screen. See what wonders the lack of jaggies do in the Dolphin thread. You cn see that galaxy actually looks much better wighout those damned jaggies. They really catch my eye every fcking time. They make games less immersive. (yeah yeah, in the old days we didn't know any better)
ResidentDante
Member
:loljambo said:
camineet said:
Sega does what nowadaysdon't. Seriously impressed looking back at how they managed this and had the industry leading grpahics that surpassed most others. I wish for 60fps on all games next gen.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
subversus said:
LOL
Fimbulvetr
Member
Plywood said:
Wait, what? :lol
Branduil said:
Not to mention that low framerates can hamper player reaction as well as cause input lag, something non-interactive media don't have to deal with
Fimbulvetr
Member
DP
sixteen-bit
Member
I doubt it
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
Fimbulvetr said:
Douple penetration? Yes, that's what having jaggies feels like.... like a pine cone scraping your gooch and haunting your sleep.
Chittagong
Gold Member
I refuse to believe I'll ever see a jaggy free console.
Well it's been promised before this generation and look how it turned out. I think we need to take any official statement with a bucket of salt whenever rumblings of next gen performance start.
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/rbach/05-16-05e3.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/rbach/05-16-05e3.mspx
Lovely Salsa
Banned
According to GAF, 4 months back, the next gen consoles will be Wii like with no graphical upgrade whatsoever....
SO MANY things to fix before jaggies...
I can't believe people seeing this as a real problem. You have a per pixel display, live with it. lol
Besides, we are soon to be in a 1080p world and this world is pretty much jaggies free except if you're using some 70inch tv or something.
I can't believe people seeing this as a real problem. You have a per pixel display, live with it. lol
Besides, we are soon to be in a 1080p world and this world is pretty much jaggies free except if you're using some 70inch tv or something.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I play PC games on a 42 inch TV from about 3.5 feet away and I can easily tell a difference between 8xAA and no AA. 1080p certainly isn't jaggie free. And isn't this a "720p" world atm :lol :lolRanger X said:
Devs will use sub 1080p resolutions next-gen
brain_stew
Member
mescalineeyes said:teh fuck happened here? how do you get this little frames in sc2?
The ultra settings in SC2 make it one of the most demanding games on the platform. No PC config can manage the with a locked 60fps since they're so reliant on single threaded CPU performance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the OP, the adoption of destructive post process techniques like MLAA is precisely why we won't ever see aliasing free console games. A post process filter can never add information, you will always need something (ike MSAA) to deal with the sub pixel aliasing issues that crop up when a game is in motion. No matter how good MLAA looks in stills it still has fundamental drawbacks that mean it can't possibly ever deal with all forms of aliasing.
So, yes, techniques similar to MLAA will indeed be "standard" next generation but the very fact that they'll be used and seen as "good enough" is why we're not going to get aliasing free console games next generation. Masses of games with absolutely ridiculous amounts of aliasing ill be a thing of the past of course, but there'll still be several "gotchas."
We're several decades away from seeing console games with 8xSGSSAA as standard (I doubt it'll ever happen), and I'm sorry, but there's absolutely no way anyone can describe an AA routine that is inferior to that as "jaggy free."
brain_stew
Member
Ranger X said:
:lol :lol
I don't think I've seen quite a ridiculous statement on GAF all week.
brain_stew
Member
mr_nothin said:
GPUs have been including dedicated logic for MSAA for decades. With the rise of post process techniques which most see as "good enough", I'd say they'd much sooner remove that silicon than add to it.