Support NeoGAF

Durante · May 25, 2013

Evolved1 said:

I'm LTTP, but this wonderfully encapsulates MS' hardware marketing strategy post-reveal. Well done.

Edit:
By the way, assuming that PS4 won't need any GPU resources for the OS seems premature. The hardware gap is big enough without making assumptions about software.

Infusion · May 25, 2013

Wolves Evolve said:
All very fine and well, but heaps of developers are saying Sony are using MS's Visual Studio better than MS right now. MS have the tools - but they're also MS. There's no guarantee of anything. We know the PS4 -is- more powerful, so potentially the games do look better. We know that Sony's developers have been preparing for a long time. We know that MS's devs have been preparing for a long time too.

So this E3 should be the best in a decade for new IP - but we can't be delusional - the onus is now on Microsoft to deliver games which look and feel like next-gen titles. They haven't yet. They need to show next-gen Halo, Gears, Forza, Rare game and a couple of others right out of the gate.

In the wash after the conferences, we need to know which third-party games run better on which system - is it negligible? Are the feature sets massively different?

These things matter - but again, Microsoft have chosen to put themselves in the defensive.

Im not going to put stock in a bunch of indie guys who are bad talking MS sorry! David cage said the last time on Ign he didn't even have a dev kit so I don't know what he is even talking about. I want to see the games! all this spec talk means nothing to me the games will speak for themselves its not the first time I've been promised the world by platform holders and got nothing like it. Secondly the idea that MS forgot how to make tools is just ignorant the largest software company in the world doesn't know how to make developer tools? when they have had the best development sdk for 2 generations on console is ridiculous. Those indie guys can say what they want I just want to see the games.

Guymelef · May 25, 2013

Evolved1 said:

haha

Makes sense.

Gemüsepizza · May 25, 2013

Infusion said:
Im not going to put stock in a bunch of indie guys who are bad talking MS sorry! David cage said the last time on Ign he didn't even have a dev kit so I don't know what he is even talking about. I want to see the games! all this spec talk means nothing to me the games will speak for themselves its not the first time I've been promised the world by platform holders and got nothing like it. Secondly the idea that MS forgot how to make tools is just ignorant the largest software company in the world doesn't know how to make developer tools? when they have had the best development sdk for 2 generations on console is ridiculous. Those indie guys can say what they want I just want to see the games.

Huh? It's not the indie guys who are saying Microsoft is lagging behind:

Avalanche (Just Cause):

"The PlayStation 4 environment is definitely more mature currently, so Microsoft has some catching up to do."

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=563757

F. Giesen from RAD Game Tools:

"@tom_forsyth @aras_p Enough to say that MS is way worse at integrating their platforms into VS than Sony is at this point. " "@tom_forsyth @aras_p So yeah, quality+stability of Sony's tools and libs is astonishingly good for this stage of the console life cycle."

https://twitter.com/rygorous/status/336914171230822400

Alan Kertz (Lead Core Gameplay Designer on Battlefield 4):

"I think Gen4 is now Sony's game."

Fredrik Thylander (Senior Designer at EA DICE):

"agree"

https://twitter.com/Demize99/status/337092583643811840

Coulomb_Barrier · May 25, 2013

Infusion said:
Im not going to put stock in a bunch of indie guys who are bad talking MS sorry! David cage said the last time on Ign he didn't even have a dev kit so I don't know what he is even talking about. I want to see the games! all this spec talk means nothing to me the games will speak for themselves its not the first time I've been promised the world by platform holders and got nothing like it. Secondly the idea that MS forgot how to make tools is just ignorant the largest software company in the world doesn't know how to make developer tools? when they have had the best development sdk for 2 generations on console is ridiculous. Those indie guys can say what they want I just want to see the games.

It was an Avalanche studios guy that said the PS4 (software) environment is 'more mature' and they are working with both platforms.

http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1739818

I think the gap in power will be pretty significant, especially the launch titles, if MS are so behind Sony at this point on the software side of things.

Edit: Gemuse has more above.

Guymelef · May 25, 2013

Why developers with XBone kits don't talk about all this cloud thing?

specialguy · May 25, 2013

so are we making charts pretending that PS4 wont have any GPU reserve too just because it hasn't been mentioned in an article yet (and may well never be)?

From a little talk on B3D it seems this was the norm. I do not know if PS3 did it, but I was told 360 had the same GPU OS reservation. And since 360 games did not suffer graphically against PS3, I would thus assume PS3 had a similar GPU reserve. At which time I'd basically conclude it's just the norm. Anything else would be exceedingly unlikely. Every time you call up a guide in a game or anything, apparently that uses GPU.

Gemüsepizza · May 25, 2013

Okay. Let's say the PS4 also has ~100GFLOPs reserved, which I think is unlikely given they have a different focus. This would give PS4 still an advantage of 57% instead of 50%. That's why I wrote "up to".

Tricky I Shadow · May 25, 2013

Johnny M said:
PS4=Vegeta: Just looking for raw potential, focus on fight. Hard training to be at the same power level of Goku (sometimes he is), but at the end of the day he is just behind. His father was the king of the planet.

PC=Goku: Fighting since he was born, always ready to help the humanity. He has died several times, and resurrected as well, always at the top. His father in law is a "good-natured" bearded man. 3).

XB1=Gohan: Was very powerful in his first years, now he wears weird clothes and uses dumb gadgets. (according to the prophecy from an old guy) he has inside some secret unlimited power.

Wii-U=Mr.Satan/Hercule: Scared from the rest of the fighters, although he usually try to show the opposite (confidence in himself), underpowered. Almost everybody trust him and enjoyed his past background, thanks to that, he will save humanity with the help of Goku and Vegeta.

Congrats. You won the thread!

Steroyd · May 25, 2013

Bwahaha at the DBZ talk.

The depressing thing about this is that the PS4 has overall faster specs than the X1, which I assume means it's less of a strain of resources when hitting the PS button, navigating the UI and doing multi-tasking etc.

Windom Earle · May 25, 2013

Infusion said:
Im not going to put stock in a bunch of indie guys who are bad talking MS sorry! David cage said the last time on Ign he didn't even have a dev kit so I don't know what he is even talking about. I want to see the games! all this spec talk means nothing to methe games will speak for themselves its not the first time I've been promised the world by platform holders and got nothing like it. Secondly the idea that MS forgot how to make tools is just ignorant the largest software company in the world doesn't know how to make developer tools? when they have had the best development sdk for 2 generations on console is ridiculous. Those indie guys can say what they want I just want to see the games.

Then why post in a spec thread? You seem upset.

GoofsterStud · May 25, 2013

specialguy said:
so are we making charts pretending that PS4 wont have any GPU reserve too just because it hasn't been mentioned in an article yet (and may well never be)?

From a little talk on B3D it seems this was the norm. I do not know if PS3 did it, but I was told 360 had the same GPU OS reservation. And since 360 games did not suffer graphically against PS3, I would thus assume PS3 had a similar GPU reserve. At which time I'd basically conclude it's just the norm. Anything else would be exceedingly unlikely. Every time you call up a guide in a game or anything, apparently that uses GPU.

GoofsterStud said:
Does it?

The PS4 has a separate chip for Encoding/Decoding and various other tasks. The Xbone does not.

Seriously...people read.

Also it has been stated that Xbox One will utilize resources for the Kinetic at all times, so developers don't have to.

nelsonroyale · May 25, 2013

1st Course said:
More like PS4 = GCN and X1 = PS2 I think.

None of these analogies are particularly good. Power ratios don't just scale up if we are using vastly expanded numbers.

Wolves Evolve · May 25, 2013

Infusion said:
Im not going to put stock in a bunch of indie guys who are bad talking MS sorry! David cage said the last time on Ign he didn't even have a dev kit so I don't know what he is even talking about. I want to see the games! all this spec talk means nothing to me the games will speak for themselves its not the first time I've been promised the world by platform holders and got nothing like it. Secondly the idea that MS forgot how to make tools is just ignorant the largest software company in the world doesn't know how to make developer tools? when they have had the best development sdk for 2 generations on console is ridiculous. Those indie guys can say what they want I just want to see the games.

They're literally some of the biggest companies in the world. DICE, ffs! But sure, Microsoft HAS had great tools since mid-Xbox 1 and by all rights they shouldn't fuck it up. But multiple people say they're behind. That's all. Just saying don't bet on them. That's all. Relax.

Ravage · May 25, 2013

Evolved1 said:

This...this is brilliant. MS PR strategy in a nutshell.

Sutanreyu · May 25, 2013

The PS3 had a deficit in the GPU arena as well, yet look at how that turned out. Xone will probably have to play up the Cloud processing abilities as its "Cell" -- its special sauce. Though, the requirement of an internet connection for its use might make it unattractive to third party devs.

Meccanical · May 25, 2013

Sutanreyu said:
The PS3 had a deficit in the GPU arena as well, yet look at how that turned out. Xone will probably have to play up the Cloud processing abilities as its "Cell" -- its special sauce. Though, the requirement of an internet connection for its use might make it unattractive to third party devs.

fatgamecat · May 25, 2013

So the GPU has about 50% more stream processors. What kind of overall % performance boost is that going to give? Something like 40 FPS instead of 30? About 25-30%? I'm sure 50% more specs doesn't equal 50% more performance.

I'm likely only buying a PS4, just interested in how multiplat titles will look.

SMT · May 25, 2013

Every day I see something odd about the X1, I don't even know what to expect anymore.
It seems like cable box one will be tube-fed by the cloud.

I can see the PC gamers scream at the X1 for holding back the progress of game development.

Liha · May 25, 2013

MrCookiepants said:
but the power of the cloud.

Meccanical · May 25, 2013

SMT said:
I can see the PC gamers scream at the X1 for holding back the progress of game development.

They say that, but more power won't magically make game design better.

But I understand it doesn't hurt.

Village · May 25, 2013

GrizzNKev said:
Xbone is starting to sound less like Vegeta and more like Yamcha.

Veggie got to ss3 at some point.

This is definite yamcha.

RoboPlato · May 25, 2013

tournanext said:
So the GPU has about 50% more stream processors. What kind of overall % performance boost is that going to give? Something like 40 FPS instead of 30? About 25-30%? I'm sure 50% more specs doesn't equal 50% more performance.

I'm likely only buying a PS4, just interested in how multiplat titles will look.

When the architectures are near identical it can mean 50% more performance, all other things being equal. We're more likely to see differences in visuals, not framerate.

malfcn · May 25, 2013

I know specs say 33 to 50% more powerful..but diminishing returns?

teokrazia · May 25, 2013

I don't know if it has been already told, but seems that PS4's OS needs almost 3 GBs of RAM and 2 cores fully dedicated.

Meccanical · May 25, 2013

malfcn said:
I know specs say 33 to 50% more powerful..but diminishing returns?

Explain yourself.

I don't know if has been already told, but seems that PS4's OS needs almost 3 GB of RAM and 2 core fully dedicated.

You gonna post a source or is that a typo?

Spongebob · May 25, 2013

teokrazia said:
I don't know if it has been already told, but seems that PS4's OS needs almost 3 GB of RAM and 2 core fully dedicated.

Source for 3GB for OS?

jaypah · May 25, 2013

teokrazia said:
I don't know if it has been already told, but seems that PS4's OS needs almost 3 GB of RAM and 2 core fully dedicated.

You can't just drop that science without a link homie.

Cidd · May 25, 2013

teokrazia said:
I don't know if it has been already told, but seems that PS4's OS needs almost 3 GBs of RAM and 2 cores fully dedicated.

Oh really, and where is this source?

SuperSonic1305 · May 25, 2013

Village said:
Veggie got to ss3 at some point.

This is definite yamcha.

Vegeta never went SSJ3. He had to use cheats to skip it entirely and go straight to SSJ4.

Jack_AG · May 25, 2013

Meccanical said:
Explain yourself

He is suggesting that we might not notice a character with 4k more polys over the xbone version when you looking at a 30k model.

Meccanical · May 25, 2013

Jack_AG said:
He is suggesting that we might not notice a character with 4k more polys over the xbone version when you looking at a 30k model.

Eh, it's little early to go around saying shit like this.

SneakyStephan · May 25, 2013

Evolved1 said:

Idk wether to laugh or cry, this is so true.
Marketing pisses me off.

avaya · May 25, 2013

specialguy said:
so are we making charts pretending that PS4 wont have any GPU reserve too just because it hasn't been mentioned in an article yet (and may well never be)?

From a little talk on B3D it seems this was the norm. I do not know if PS3 did it, but I was told 360 had the same GPU OS reservation. And since 360 games did not suffer graphically against PS3, I would thus assume PS3 had a similar GPU reserve. At which time I'd basically conclude it's just the norm. Anything else would be exceedingly unlikely. Every time you call up a guide in a game or anything, apparently that uses GPU.

Your rather long and drawn out cross-forum meltdown has been one of the highlights of this whole Xbone saga.

Evolution_1ne · May 25, 2013

I-hate-u said:
Like others said he got stronger during the Freeza saga. Also Yamcha said that Krillin is the strongest human on earth in the beginning of the Buu saga.

For me:
PS4= Goku
Wii-U= Gohan (Has potential that will show in due time)
X1 = Vegeta

lol I like how Nintendo fans are using this failing of the Nextbox to sneak the Wii U back in the game

Still as relevant today as it was before the reveal

twobear · May 25, 2013

Evolved1 said:

Daingurse · May 25, 2013

Evolved1 said:

This is amazing.

Shayan · May 25, 2013

MrCookiepants said:
but the power of the cloud.

there is no cloud or anything .

This is just brutal haha

Vic · May 25, 2013

Johnny M said:
PS4=Vegeta: Just looking for raw potential, focus on fight. Hard training to be at the same power level of Goku (sometimes he is), but at the end of the day he is just behind. His father was the king of the planet.

PC=Goku: Fighting since he was born, always ready to help the humanity. He has died several times, and resurrected as well, always at the top. His father in law is a "good-natured" bearded man. 3).

XB1=Gohan: Was very powerful in his first years, now he wears weird clothes and uses dumb gadgets. (according to the prophecy from an old guy) he has inside some secret unlimited power.

Wii-U=Mr.Satan/Hercule: Scared from the rest of the fighters, although he usually try to show the opposite (confidence in himself), underpowered. Almost everybody trust him and enjoyed his past background, thanks to that, he will save humanity with the help of Goku and Vegeta.

This is amazing.

Demoncarnotaur · May 25, 2013

alterego said:

Wow. Fucking "entertainment". Fucking Kinect. Blah.

Evolved1 said:

:lol

Fucking amazing.

Infusion · May 25, 2013

Is this story true or just speculation?

Spongebob · May 25, 2013

Infusion said:
Is this story true or just speculation?

It's true.

malfcn · May 25, 2013

malfcn said:
I know specs say 33 to 50% more powerful..but diminishing returns?

Meccanical said:
Explain yourself.

You gonna post a source or is that a typo?

Jack_AG said:
He is suggesting that we might not notice a character with 4k more polys over the xbone version when you looking at a 30k model.

I wasn't suggesting, but asking. Will the extra power be a massive difference or a marginal increase. Like, I don't expect 30 FPS to be upgraded to 60FPS.

jaypah · May 25, 2013

Vic said:
This is amazing.

Yeah I tend to gloss over DBZ comparisons because if you've read one you've read them all but I was bored so I decided to check it out. That shit was fantastic.

Dreams-Visions · May 25, 2013

Evolved1 said:

Raonak · May 25, 2013

Krilekk said:
Problem: Every game is streamable to a Vita, so the PS4 GPU can't run at 100 % for games, it has to do a lot of encoding. And I think they have multitasking for social integration as well. And user interfaces.

nope. ps4 has dedicated encoding and decoding hardware for gaikai/remote play. in addition, ps4 has a second chip for all the background features. I have no doubt that it would reserve 1 CPU core for os stuff, hypervisor functions and security.

DieH@rd · May 25, 2013

Cerny mentioned that the game devs would never have to worry about resources for video recording/streaming/remote play. Those features are part of the OS and will be used always "by default". The only thing devs need to worry is to create Vita control scheme, which will became part of PS4 game cert.

danwarb · May 26, 2013

The effective memory bandwidth for the GPU in the XB1 is ~170GB/s with the esram scratchpad.

Rogue_Ledr said:
What is the 10% remainder of the GPU being used for exactly?

It's the same with Xbox 360. You need GPU reserved so that other things can run concurrenty with games, and without causing problems. Like achievment pop-ups, notifications or whatever. PS4 will have GPU and CPU reserved for its OS too. Probably very similar numbers to leave room for expansion. You can give back if it isn't needed later, but you can't take more away.

Raonak said:
nope. ps4 has dedicated encoding and decoding hardware for gaikai/remote play. in addition, ps4 has a second chip for all the background features. I have no doubt that it would reserve 1 CPU core for os stuff, hypervisor functions and security.

The new Xbox has the equivalent. Why is KZ: SF using 6 CPU cores and 5GB of RAM, if 7 were available, coincidence?

It seems sensible to match MS to begin with at least.

Gemüsepizza · May 26, 2013

danwarb said:
The effective memory bandwidth for the GPU in the XB1 is ~170GB/s with the esram scratchpad.

No it's not. You have to constantly fill the eSRAM, which will reduce the whole bandwidth drastically.

It's the same with Xbox 360. You need GPU reserved so that other things can run concurrenty with games, and without causing problems. Like achievment pop-ups, notifications or whatever. PS4 will have GPU and CPU reserved for its OS too. Probably very similar numbers to leave room for expansion. You can give back if it isn't needed later, but you can't take more away.

Doubtful. The Xbox 360 does reserve some of the GPU reserves, too - I heard 10% on beyond3D. But that's only 10% of 250GFLOPS, 25GFLOPS. So why does the Xbox One need 123GFLOPS, almost half of 360's whole power? Two possibilites imo: Xbox One will be capable of running full blown apps like Skype while gaming. Or Xbox One needs those ressources for Kinect. I don't think PS4 will have either of those possibilities. And even if PS4 does reserve 123GFLOPS, too, this makes it's GPU still 55% more powerful than the X1 GPU. And then there are the reports about PS4 having additional chips for such things...

The new Xbox has the equivalent. Why is KZ: SF using 6 CPU cores and 5GB of RAM, if 7 were available, coincidence?

It seems sensible to match MS to begin with at least.

We don't know details about PS4's CPU usage yet, there were rumors that early devkits did not have the final PS4 audio chip, so that audio had to be runned by a CPU core. And regarding RAM: I am 100% sure that PS4 will not have 3GB RAM reserved for the OS.

Metalmurphy · May 26, 2013

danwarb said:
The new Xbox has the equivalent. Why is KZ: SF using 6 CPU cores and 5GB of RAM, if 7 were available, coincidence?

It seems sensible to match MS to begin with at least.

Because they were developing it on the devkit based on unfinished specs?

Support NeoGAF

Kotaku: "Only 90% of Xbox One GPU usable for games"- PS4 GPU up to 66% more powerful?

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad

Banned

Member

Member

I'd be in the dick

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

sputum-flecked apoplexy

Member

Banned

Please help me with my bad english

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads