RedRedSuit
Member
I would avoid petitions. 9 times out of 10 the numbers they generate look fairly lame and undercut the appearance of the message's popularity.
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#PS4NoDRM #XboxOneNoDRM || Now do you "Believe?"
- Thread starter famousmortimer
- Start date
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Krusenstern
Banned
This here. A failed petition wouldn't be beneficail to this campaign by looking from our current situation and what we have achieved so far.
We can't control what other people do, best we can do is just be patient and wait til E3.
It's not that long either, 12 days. Feel free to send a few messages on a week on Saturday (couple of days before E3) to remind them how we feel and leave it at that.
I have a feeling whatever their plan is, it's locked in next week as they need to have most of their things (ie answers to possible interview questions like ones about this campaign/used game DRM) locked in before E3. So there isn't much point except a few reminder tweets a few days before E3.
Just my thoughts on that.
It's not that long either, 12 days. Feel free to send a few messages on a week on Saturday (couple of days before E3) to remind them how we feel and leave it at that.
I have a feeling whatever their plan is, it's locked in next week as they need to have most of their things (ie answers to possible interview questions like ones about this campaign/used game DRM) locked in before E3. So there isn't much point except a few reminder tweets a few days before E3.
Just my thoughts on that.
bigboss370
Member
would MS steal a bit of E3 thunder from Sony if they went on stage (since their conference is first) and said something like "we been listening to our fans, no drm!". They could do it after their conference too seeing as how the Playstation one is much later in the day.
Baller. PhD
Banned
I made a petition using gofreak's original open letter. I don't see much need to expand upon that, to be honest. He summed it up pretty perfectly.
The question is do we start pressing this petition now, or do we wait? Petitions are things that actually benefit from having more time to circulate, after all.
Worried about this too. I'm not sure if I've ever seen one of these petitions be successful.
The question is do we start pressing this petition now, or do we wait? Petitions are things that actually benefit from having more time to circulate, after all.
Worried about this too. I'm not sure if I've ever seen one of these petitions be successful.
famousmortimer
Banned
This is exactly why I never made one and put it in the OP. I mean if someone wants to do it, by all means... there is no 'leader' here. But my gut feeling is that if you do a petition you need to be certain it's going to get an impressive amount of signatures because a failed petition is just proof to them that there aren't enough of us.
Also... Im back. Im trying to rework the OP but we have so many freaking media mentions that the character count is over 12000 characters too many. So I am going to spend the next 10-60 minutes (depending on how focused I can stay with all of these other things coming in and out) working on it. If you have some sort of attatchment to the crazy jumbled info dump the OP is curentty (which i kinda do, i find it impressive) make sure you take a screenshot now because my plan is to go much, much cleaner and offload links to things on the website. So instead of listing all the media here the OP will link to the media page on the website. That itself saves me about 15000 characters.
I have some banners a gaffer made so it's going to get pretty as well.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
They never are. If we wanted to go down the petition route it needed to be done with the initial Twitter salvo when people were really fired up about it. It's too late for a petition, all it will do is allow publishers to look at it and say "well there's only a couple of thousand malcontents".
It is not the route we need to take.
Probably. But that would be a huge victory either way - we don't want DRM on either system. Ideally, both of them will confirm that there's no DRM on the Xbox One/PS4.
Guy LeDouche
Banned
If you want to run off the slow disc drive, sure.
Adding in the hd makes it more complex, unless you just want caching instead of full installs.
Baller. PhD
Banned
It is resolved then. Fuck petitions.
We stay the course, prepare for Phase II.
We stay the course, prepare for Phase II.
Never did I.
Baller. PhD
Banned
360 has full installs without DRM. Sony would be wise to allow for that on the PS4, it's awesome.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
So I got an interesting message from the same person as earlier from the third party publisher. He has this information third hand and I'll paraphrase to save time.
Says Sony have never had any used game or online controls. EA's special relationship with MS is a result of this stance from Sony. However all EA games will be on PS4 anyway, but EA and MS are going to step up marketing for Xbone and give (timed?) exclusive DLC/content. His conjecture is that Sony didn't want to spell out their policy until E3 to capitalise on any backlash at MS.
Again, this is third hand information, but he is adamant that Sony never approached his employer with any kind of used game lock proposition and his friends at other publishers say the same.
Says Sony have never had any used game or online controls. EA's special relationship with MS is a result of this stance from Sony. However all EA games will be on PS4 anyway, but EA and MS are going to step up marketing for Xbone and give (timed?) exclusive DLC/content. His conjecture is that Sony didn't want to spell out their policy until E3 to capitalise on any backlash at MS.
Again, this is third hand information, but he is adamant that Sony never approached his employer with any kind of used game lock proposition and his friends at other publishers say the same.
I dont think petition is the right way to go personally. They've never been successful and have bad stigma attached to them
To be honest, that was kind of what i assumed from the whole thing.
DC1
Member
YOSH!
hydrophilic attack
Member
Woffls
Member
Feel bad for not contributing properly the last couple of days 
updated my avatar, will try and engage some people on Twitter tomorrow instead of working. Thanks for all your work so far, everyone.
Petitions are antiquated. We have a message, and we have numbers supporting it, so I don't see what role a petition will play. Twitter is where it's at, and most of these companies will probably already be making use of the Twitter analytics API.
updated my avatar, will try and engage some people on Twitter tomorrow instead of working. Thanks for all your work so far, everyone.Petitions are antiquated. We have a message, and we have numbers supporting it, so I don't see what role a petition will play. Twitter is where it's at, and most of these companies will probably already be making use of the Twitter analytics API.
Krusenstern
Banned
What is Phase II?
I dont even know if a phase 2 is even necessary or what it could even be.
I mean, the message is out and if they dont know what we are asking for by now, theyre idiots.
Im not saying to stop tweeting or anything, though. Keep that going. And it probably is a good idea to keep that going until E3...maybe even attempt a boost in the days leading up to the conferences.
Interesting if true. I know you know this already but Id take all this with a grain of salt.
I mean, the message is out and if they dont know what we are asking for by now, theyre idiots.
Im not saying to stop tweeting or anything, though. Keep that going. And it probably is a good idea to keep that going until E3...maybe even attempt a boost in the days leading up to the conferences.
Interesting if true. I know you know this already but Id take all this with a grain of salt.
Really good news if true.
Impeccable
Member
So essentially, if this is to be believed... fuck EA and MS.
You could do full installs with disc in the drive as authentication. Problem solved.
Miles Quaritch
Member
So wait, if that's true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't as you feel confident enough to share, this entire campaign has been misdirected/focused on the wrong company from the very start?
Guy LeDouche
Banned
yeah, installs with disc check. I'm fine with that. MS's Xbone system gets it wrong by not needing to disc check but therefore it requires a complicated online handshake thing
Everything so far is pointing to good news.
bigboss370
Member
Very interesting!
Does it matter? The whole idea was to make sure it didn't happen. If it doesn't happen, i don't really care whether they had ever had any intention of doing it.
famousmortimer
Banned
This lines up with what i've been told as well. And lines up with the thing I kinda accidentally leaked that started this thing in the first place..... Sony is undecided.
Just be forwarned Im reposting the current OP after my 60 second cool down so it can live on in infamy on page 100something (wherever the heck we are).
zomgbbqftw
Banned
What's interesting is that what he says doesn't rule out used game locking from Sony on a per-publisher/title basis. So he may be sure that his employer never got approached by Sony with used game lockouts, but he doesn't work for EA and didn't specify if any of his mates did either.
There is still the possibility that Sony approached EA with some system.
Baller. PhD
Banned
That's really all I mean. "Second wave" of pushing, maybe leverage some of the publicity we've gotten so far to get some more press coverage and keep the heat on Sony hard up until E3.
Relevant. =)
The whole thing was started as a pre-emptive because it was thought (from famousmortimer's sources) that Sony was wavering on their decision, so no, it was not the wrong company.
famousmortimer
Banned
No. Because there is nothing to protest of EA. EA doesn't make the decision, EA lobbies for it.
And we are lobbying also. Sony is the one who decides one way or the other and is who the focus should be on.
DC1
Member
The Whispers!
I remember reading about this 'mutual' agreement last week. Kind of dove-tails into EAs reasoning behind dropping their online pass policy.
famousmortimer
Banned
www.ps4nodrm.com
http://ps4nodrm.tumblr.com
This is spreading out of the Bonus Round/Doritos pope/keighley heard about sony DRM posts.
The gist of it is that Sony is listening to the backlash that Microsoft is getting and they are basing decisions off of this. I would assume MS is also, but I don't know that for sure. But I can say, for sure, that the past week's PR nightmare for MS has not been lost on Sony and they, in fact, do have a used game 'solution' working and have been going back and forth for months on whether to use it. This past week is pushing them strongly into "Yeah, let's not use that."
Do you want to give them an extra push? It can't hurt. I've been told by lower level people in the company that tweeting to yosp specifically is quite effective as he likes to gauge what people are thinking. Will a couple hundred posts from neogaf change the entire industry? No. Can it help give a little more momentum to something sony seems to be leaning towards already? I would think so.
So, if you care....
Here's the entire list of sony folks I know of that either are in on the decisions or have the ears of people who are in on the decisions that are on twitter.
My biggest piece of advice is be respectful. They aren't likely to finish a tweet in all caps threatening them.
Shuhei Yoshida (president of worldwide studios) @yosp (easily the highest level person on twitter and quite accessible)
John Koller (head of hardware marketing) @jpkoller (dude has like 150 followers - heh)
Guy Longworth (senior vice president PlayStation Brand Marketing) @luckylongworth
Scott Rohde (PlayStation Software Product Development Head for Sony Worldwide Studios America) @rohdescott
****NEW*** Adam Boyes (Publisher and developer relations at Sony) @amboyes
****NEW*** Shahid Kamal Ahmad (third party relations, europe) @shahidkamal
****New*** Nick Accordino (SCEA ISD A. Producer) @nikoro
****Newer*** Phil Rosenberg (SCEA - reports directly to Tretton, thanks GoFreak) @philrosenberg <--- Very few followers, show him some love.
#PS4NoDRM #PS4USEDGAMES are the hashtags being used.
Also couldn't hurt to let the ex-journos that work there like @nsuttner and @shanewatch and @morganharo and @sidshuman know what you are thinking. But again, remember, respectful. I would assume any of these guys are used to getting flamed and just instantly disregard tweets that seem pissed off.
****NEW****** MICROSOFT TWITTER ACCOUNTS!
NEW! LET THIRD PARTIES KNOW AS WELL!
Actual humans:
@CastlevaniaLOS (Head of UK Studio at Konami, Castlevania LoS series Producer)
@Shinji_Mikami_E (Shinji Mikami, former Resident Evil Producer)
@HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN (Hideo Kojima, English)
@Kojima_Hideo (Hideo Kojima, Japanese)
@IGLevine (Ken Levine, Irrational Games Creative Director)
@Yoshi_OnoChin (Yoshinori Ono, Street Fighter Series executive Producer)
@chrissvensson (Christian Svensson, Senior Vice President of strategic planning and business development at Capcom)
@therealcliffyb (Cliff Bleszinski, Gears of War - He seems to want more money for devs)
@Harada_TEKKEN (Game Director/Chief Producer of Tekken)
@PG_kamiya (Hideki Kamiya, Twitter star, sex-symbol, God and Platinum Games badass designer)
Social media stuff... probably a waste of time.
Reddit Upvote for the love of sagan!
Gamefaqs post.
Also let them know that you expect#PS4FreeOnline and #PS4NoRegionLock like last gen as well, if those things matter to you. I have no idea if minds are made up on that or not but it can't hurt to try.
If any lurkers or members of the press or Sony's goons hired to break my kneecaps want to contact me: @ForYourPeteDodd or PM me here.
Reaction from Sony:
I would caution not to expect too much. They aren't going to reply to a tweet with their used game philosophy. Just them taking notice publically of the movement is all we can reasonably hope for at this juncture.
Boom... another one atleast acknowledges that his twitter feed is getting hit
he's in developer relations not PR but Adam Boyes is paying attention too
https://twitter.com/amboyes/status/338860972355772416
Boynes: @VinayakNeliath I read the GAF daily
He's a producer with SCEA ISD
Media mentions:
And Jim Sterling joined the cause
Thanks Jim!
And that's because there were citing an article on Gematsu written by fellow gaffer .
Just Push Start joins the fray.
Germany!
German Eurogamer.de has made an article about it: http://www.eurogamer.de/articles/20...nd-fuer-gebrauchtspiele-auf-der-playstation-4
And a tweet from them:
France!
dosh said:
Required Reading:
GAF's Gofreak very expertly lays down exactly why we care and deflates some of the easy PR answers that may be coming our way.
Know your twitter-fu.
No idea if this site is legit but here's some unofficial stats for #PS4NoDRM
Twitter is loving (fake) kaz's response.
Realtime.
Props to Minions for pushing me on the hashtag.
Sunhi Legend is still THE legend.
When EA pranced out there and made a big song and dance out of everything, I assumed that there was some kind of deal in place. A deal as a result of this DRM thing makes sense.
I seem to remember crazy buttocks claiming that Respawns new game will also be XBO exclusive as well.
That said, zomgbbqftws post above contradicts some of the other things we heard. Keighley and famousmortimer both claimed that something either was, is, or planned to be put in place. There was also talk that Sony was still internally debating the whole thing as of last week.
So how can anonymous 3rd party publisher guy make a claim like "Sony have never had any used game or online controls" when we know (if we believe other sources) that they do...or did. You know what I mean?
Unless he means "Sony never told my employer about any used game or online controls", which would make sense. If they were undecided, I doubt theyd go around asking pubs about it.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Miles Quaritch
Member
It kinda does. It was a waste of time/resources/effort that could have been focused on MS, who, you know, actually announced anti used DRM.
bigboss370
Member
I don't think MS would have the 'strategic partnership' with EA if that was the case though.
sechsterangriff
Member
That would kind of explain their absence from the unveil event and going to great length to promote FIFA on the 360.
This makes me wonder if retailers like GameStop will give Sony more shelf space because they can have higher margins...
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
Remember it all started because FM heard Sony were on the fence, so we did it to try and show them our views on it.
Impeccable
Member
If EA and MS are already having an affair walking in on them fucking won't stop it in the long run.
Fenderputty
Banned
If this is true, the Sony execs must LOVE this twitter movement you guys all started.
Flightmare
Member
That sounds great
Very true! I also loved that show
They aren't going to change if EA is getting all that content in return for it.
The overall message of "DRM sucks, we dont want it" is out there, though. The way this thing spread, its hard for Sony, MS, or any pubs to ignore. Its really up to them to act now.
This makes sense too.
E3 is going to be so interesting.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
The way I see it is that Sony haven't had a used game locking system in place ever, but after seeing the EA/MS relationship were looking at putting one in, then saw the backlash and had second thoughts. That would fit.
Again, he works for a third party publisher, so his information is third hand and we should take it with a grain of salt. He even told me this in the morning.
Hindsight is always 20/20, amirite? But it's not over by a longshot. Not until E3.
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