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Dragonball Z /GT fans.........whats the reason for the Super Saiyan 2 neglect

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P

Psychological Intellect

Banned
super saiyan(goku vs freeza,vegeta vs android 19)
hirudegarn-vs-broly-hatchyack-meta-cooler-and-super-perfect-cell-19650.jpg
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ultra supersaiyan/what vegeta thought was an ascended saiyan (vegeta vs cell's second stage)
VegetaAscendedSuperSaiyanEp155.png
Click to expand...

ultra supersaiyan 2 (big buff trunks vs perfect cell, goku showing off to gohan in the time chamber explaining that it was useless since it makes you too fucking slow)
maxresdefault.jpg

USSJGoku.png
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full power supersaiyan(when gohan and goku stayed supersaiyan at all times so being a supersaiyan was normal and didn't drain your energy at all,when goku fought cell)
GokuAndGohanEATimeChamber.png
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then super saiyan 2/true ascended saiyan (gohan vs cell/majin vegeta vs goku) gots power and speed
cd81e5e99266fbcfcaf4ffd5cca8dd3c.jpg

goku_ssj2_by_mardock116-d5ft398.gif
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Main physical difference bewtween supersaiyan and super saiyan 2 is gohan has one bang in his hair and goku has three. Then there's the lightning shit.

I think
 
J

javac

Member
Dragonzord said:
Probably because of how similar it looked to SS1. Couldn't sell as many toys since SS2 was basically 1 with lightning.
Click to expand...

Boom. It was just basically Ascended Saiyan. Hair is more golden, more spiky and some electricity with the aura. Much more powerful tho and less exhausting.
 
T

TCKaos

Member
SSJ2 is so visually similar to SSJ that there's not really a point in using it when you could either go with the much more iconic Super Saiyan or the much different and incredibly more powerful SSJ3.
 
B

Beth Cyra

Member
NoctisVsStar said:
The bangs are obvious To me at least
Click to expand...

Yeah but Goku is the one argument that the look isn't easy.

Lets remember his SSJ1 form is drastically different then what he looks like when he fights Freeza. It doesn't matter that it's because it was meant to be the only one, and later got retconned or whatever, the fact is Goku's SSJ look changes, so him just shifting his bangs aren't going to good enough for a lot of people.
 
Davey Cakes

Davey Cakes

Member
I always liked SSJ2's lightning. That was a good enough method of distinction.

It was pretty awesome when Gohan just "let it go" and went SSJ2. He had to be pushed but once he was at that level of "all the power with all of the speed" he was unstoppable in the physical sense. Mentally? Well, he was a Saiyan and thus did what all Saiyans do; he let the power get to his head and wouldn't just end things when he could have, thus leading to Goku's very unnecessary death.

SSJ3 was always kind of lame, honestly. It's really powerful but it's just another example of adding power and lessening speed. It's just a way better version of Ultra SS.

SSJ2 marked an ascension that balanced out power and speed. It probably should have just been the final form, at least when talking about the golden aura. SSJ3's gimmick was that they needed to store extra energy in the hair, or something?

I've never really watched full episodes of GT but at least SSJ4 was an attempt to create a more "natural" sort of Super Saiyan. Kind of like SSJ1 Full Power but with actually tapping into the primeval nature of Saiyans.
 
B

Beth Cyra

Member
Rash said:
I always liked SSJ2's lightning.

It was pretty awesome when Gohan just "let it go" and went SSJ2. He had to be pushed but once he was at that level of "all the power with all of the speed" he was unstoppable in the physical sense. Mentally? Well, he was a Saiyan and thus did what all Saiyans do; he let the power get to his head and wouldn't just end things when he could have, thus leading to Goku's very unnecessary death.

SSJ3 was always kind of lame, honestly. It's really powerful but it's just another example of adding power and lessening speed. It's just a way better version of Ultra SS.

SSJ2 marked an ascension that balanced out power and speed. It probably should have just been the final form, at least when talking about the golden aura. SSJ3's gimmick was that they needed to store extra energy in the hair, or something?

I've never really watched full episodes of GT but at least SSJ4 was an attempt to create a more "natural" sort of Super Saiyan. Kind of like SSJ1 Full Power but with actually tapping into the primeval nature of Saiyans.
Click to expand...
What? Goku doesn't slow down at all in SSJ3 really. It just burns him out faster because the increase is so extreme.
 
T

The Silver

Member
Rash said:
I always liked SSJ2's lightning. That was a good enough method of distinction.

It was pretty awesome when Gohan just "let it go" and went SSJ2. He had to be pushed but once he was at that level of "all the power with all of the speed" he was unstoppable in the physical sense. Mentally? Well, he was a Saiyan and thus did what all Saiyans do; he let the power get to his head and wouldn't just end things when he could have, thus leading to Goku's very unnecessary death.

SSJ3 was always kind of lame, honestly. It's really powerful but it's just another example of adding power and lessening speed. It's just a way better version of Ultra SS.

SSJ2 marked an ascension that balanced out power and speed. It probably should have just been the final form, at least when talking about the golden aura. SSJ3's gimmick was that they needed to store extra energy in the hair, or something?

I've never really watched full episodes of GT but at least SSJ4 was an attempt to create a more "natural" sort of Super Saiyan. Kind of like SSJ1 Full Power but with actually tapping into the primeval nature of Saiyans.
Click to expand...

SSJ3 didn't lessen speed, its only drawback was it took a lot of energy to maintain.
 
Davey Cakes

Davey Cakes

Member
TruePrime said:
What? Goku doesn't slow down at all in SSJ3 really. It just burns him out faster because the increase is so extreme.
Click to expand...
Maybe I'm thinking of the burn out, then. It's been a while since I watched the Buu Sagas.

So basically there's a smaller window of opportunity to use the power. It's all there but you can't just dilly dally.
 
B

Beth Cyra

Member
Rash said:
Maybe I'm thinking of the burn out, then. It's been a while since I watched the Buu Sagas.

So basically there's a smaller window of opportunity to use the power. It's all there but you can't just dilly dally.
Click to expand...

Exactly it.

SSJ3's jump over 2 is far more extreme then 2 over 1, it just comes at the cost of it wrecking your body.

Think of it like the damage Goku sustained going hi level Kao early on.
 
S

Stevetopsy

Member
My favorite and most epic moment of DBZ is SSJ2 Goku vs Majin Vegeta and the whole lead up to it from the stadium scene. Im pretty sure Vegeta was SSJ2... Didn't he let Babadi possess him so he could ascend to SSJ2 and be on an even playing field with Goku?
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
Stevetopsy said:
My favorite and most epic moment of DBZ is SSJ2 Goku vs Majin Vegeta and the whole lead up to it from the stadium scene. Im pretty sure Vegeta was SSJ2... Didn't he let Babadi possess him so he could ascend to SSJ2 and be on an even playing field with Goku?
Click to expand...

He could go SSJ2 before turning Majin, but the Majin boost is what had him fight evenly with Goku.
 
O

OMG Aero

Member
randomrosso said:
I always liked the look of SSJ3 Goku

452693-ss3goku.jpg


*shrugs*
Click to expand...
I have a question for the Dragonball Z experts in this thread, is there actually a story reason why SSJ3 makes your hair grow really long? Like is Goku storing power in his hair or something?

And what's up with the disappearing eyebrows?
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Psychological Intellect said:
super saiyan(goku vs freeza,vegeta vs android 19)

ultra supersaiyan/what vegeta thought was an ascended saiyan (vegeta vs cell's second stage)


ultra supersaiyan 2 (big buff trunks vs perfect cell, goku showing off to gohan in the time chamber explaining that it was useless since it makes you too fucking slow)

full power supersaiyan(when gohan and goku stayed supersaiyan at all times so being a supersaiyan was normal and didn't drain your energy at all,when goku fought cell)


then super saiyan 2/true ascended saiyan (gohan vs cell/majin vegeta vs goku) gots power and speed

Main physical difference bewtween supersaiyan and super saiyan 2 is gohan has one bang in his hair and goku has three. Then there's the lightning shit.

I think
Click to expand...

To make it clear, Super Saiyan 2 is usually depicted as sharper and spiker than SS1. In addition, it has golden hair instead of a kind of white/blonde and the additional lightning sparks as part of the aura.
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
OMG Aero said:
I have a question for the Dragonball Z experts in this thread, is there actually a story reason why SSJ3 makes your hair grow really long? Like is Goku storing power in his hair or something?

And what's up with the disappearing eyebrows?
Click to expand...

No reason, Toriyama just likes to draw I suppose.
 
N

NoctisVsStar

Member
OMG Aero said:
I have a question for the Dragonball Z experts in this thread, is there actually a story reason why SSJ3 makes your hair grow really long? Like is Goku storing power in his hair or something?

And what's up with the disappearing eyebrows?
Click to expand...

No storing power on his power lol just a choice design by toriyama to set it apart from ssj1&2 I guess the no eyebrows a more primal look in my opinion.
 
V

Varna

Member
MikeMyers said:
He could go SSJ2 before turning Majin, but the Majin boost is what had him fight evenly with Goku.
Click to expand...

When is this established? I don't think they show him doing it before he gets the power up.

This is why Vegeta is a little bitch.
 
W

Wiseblade

Member
The Silver said:
Dabura was as strong as Cell, Gohan would have been instantly flattened if he wasn't a SSJ2.

AT honestly forgot that SSJ2 even existed, with his history of forgetting stuff you can come to a conclusion he simply forgot the lightning for the Dabura fight.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/v-jump-may-2013-akira-toriyama-special-interview/


Do you write down notes anywhere for that sort of background information?

No, I don’t do that. That’s why I keep on forgetting things. If I don’t forget stuff, new ideas won’t come to mind. For example, you know how there’s “Super Saiyan 3?

Yes. Where the hair gets long.

I didn’t know that. (laughs) The whole time, I thought that was “Super Saiyan 2;. (laughs)

Whaaa?!

And I drew that myself. (laughs) Anyhow, I thought “2 was the one with long hair. It was like, “Man, I’ve really forgotten stuff…”.
Click to expand...
List of things Toriyama has forgotten

1) The Z warriors were high profile contestants in 3 World Marial arts tournaments
2) Lunch/Launch
3) Saiyans have tails
4) Android #18's hair colour
5) Super Saiyan 2
 
1

120v

Member
i'm a fairly hardcore DBZ fan (or i was as a kid) and i never could tell the difference between SS1 and 2... in fact i didn't think there even was one until the buu saga. doesn't SS2 just have spikier hair?
 
J

jph139

Member
It's obvious from how few shits he gives about the details that Toriyama is a gag manga guy, where details like that don't really matter from chapter to chapter. Fans of a lot of stuff probably think about things a lot harder than the original authors but I think DBZ is the biggest example by far.
 
J

jaxword

Member
OMG Aero said:
I have a question for the Dragonball Z experts in this thread, is there actually a story reason why SSJ3 makes your hair grow really long? Like is Goku storing power in his hair or something?

And what's up with the disappearing eyebrows?
Click to expand...

The eyebrows vanishing is a Toriyama staple for a more "bad" face. It's to show how SSj3 is pretty savage.

Gotenks even comments on this.

1WmhATV.jpg
 
T

TheVampire

Banned
The problem with the Super Saiyan 2 transformation is that a lot of the time the editors didn't include the lighting in the aura that comes with it so it gets mistaken for Super Saiyan 1 when its Vegeta and Gohan using it.

Goku is the only one who you can easily tell because of his hair.

Even in that new DBZ movie you see Vegeta fight the bad guy and transform but his hair is always the same so that's no indicator and there is no lighting sparks in his aura but logically he has that transformation already and surely would use his most powerful form when fighting.

Don't stress about it.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Kain said:
That guy was magnificent but GT sucks.
Click to expand...

That's the tragedy of GT. Many decent, workable concepts, just thoroughly and repeatedly handled in the worst possible way.

For all his forgetfulness and goofiness, no one "gets" Dragonball like Toriyama, and GT proves it with aplomb.
 
S

Stat Flow

He gonna cry in the car
SSJ2 was awesome. It has some of the most awesome moments. I think the anime's best distinction of the forms was when Goku first went Super Saiyan 3 and he was showing Fat Buu the forms. That scene was fucking incredible.

And don't forget Gohan going SSJ2 at the tournament before he got his energy drained, that was a very cool little scene. Even though he was a weaker SSJ2 because of 7 years of rust.
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
Varna said:
When is this established? I don't think they show him doing it before he gets the power up.

This is why Vegeta is a little bitch.
Click to expand...

It was generally agreed that Dabura was a joke to Goku and Vegeta, but Gohan was struggling against him.

Not to mention Vegeta says a bunch of times he has surpassed Gohan now during the tournament stuff. Its most likely that he would have had SSJ2 to do this.
 
A

AlfredX1990

Banned
Rash said:
SSJ3 was always kind of lame, honestly. It's really powerful but it's just another example of adding power and lessening speed. It's just a way better version of Ultra SS.
Click to expand...

SSJ3 is by far faster than SSJ2

120v said:
i'm a fairly hardcore DBZ fan (or i was as a kid) and i never could tell the difference between SS1 and 2... in fact i didn't think there even was one until the buu saga. doesn't SS2 just have spikier hair?
Click to expand...

The hair and the lightning
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
SteelAttack said:
As far as I know, SSJ2 gets more power, but loses enough speed and mobility to make that power gain meaningless.

I'm not well versed in DBZ lore, though.
Click to expand...

I think you're confusing that with Trunk's Ascended Super Saiyan form during a fight against Cell.

To answer the OP's question: Toriyama just didn't know how to use it.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Pai Pai Master said:
They called it "ascended super saiyan" in the dub right?
Click to expand...

"Ascended" is what they called SSJ2 before SSJ3 came around. They basically never called it 2 until there was a 3.

I don't think they gave an official name to the bulky form.
 
M

MikeMyers

Member
Oozaru appears quite a few times in the series.

1. PILAF ARC: Goku goes Oozaru, Yamcha grabs the tail to freeze him and Puar cuts it off.
2. 21ST BUDOKAI: Master Roshi blows up the moon to stop Goku's Oozaru
3. SAIYAN ARC: Gohan goes Oozaru, Piccolo blows up Moon (Kami restores it in DB)
4. SAIYAN ARC FILLER: Gohan goes Oozaru because fuck logic, Piccolo chops off tail
5. SAIYAN ARC: Vegeta makes a moon ball and turns Oozaru, then defeats Goku but Yajirobe chops it off
6. SAIYAN ARC: Gohan turns Oozaru from the moon ball Vegeta made, Vegeta uses the Destructo Disk to chop his tail off.

Bebi-Vegeta, Goku, and Vegeta go Golden Oozaru in GT.
 
S

SimpleGamer

Member
Psychological Intellect said:
super saiyan(goku vs freeza,vegeta vs android 19)

ultra supersaiyan/what vegeta thought was an ascended saiyan (vegeta vs cell's second stage)


ultra supersaiyan 2 (big buff trunks vs perfect cell, goku showing off to gohan in the time chamber explaining that it was useless since it makes you too fucking slow)

full power supersaiyan(when gohan and goku stayed supersaiyan at all times so being a supersaiyan was normal and didn't drain your energy at all,when goku fought cell)


then super saiyan 2/true ascended saiyan (gohan vs cell/majin vegeta vs goku) gots power and speed

Main physical difference bewtween supersaiyan and super saiyan 2 is gohan has one bang in his hair and goku has three. Then there's the lightning shit.

I think
Click to expand...
I can't tell the difference between vegeta's SSJ1 to SSJ2
 
L

LeleSocho

Banned
ZealousD said:
"Ascended" is what they called SSJ2 before SSJ3 came around. They basically never called it 2 until there was a 3.

I don't think they gave an official name to the bulky form.
Click to expand...
Not within the manga/anime but they gave all the stages official names through guides and such which are in my first post of the thread.
 
D

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Wiseblade said:
List of things Toriyama has forgotten

1) The Z warriors were high profile contestants in 3 World Marial arts tournaments
2) Lunch/Launch
3) Saiyans have tails
4) Android #18's hair colour
5) Super Saiyan 2
Click to expand...

6) He designed mustached Vegeta for GT, not the original manga
7) The destruction of Kaio's planet
 
P

Psychological Intellect

Banned
Shouta said:
To make it clear, Super Saiyan 2 is usually depicted as sharper and spiker than SS1. In addition, it has golden hair instead of a kind of white/blonde and the additional lightning sparks as part of the aura.
Click to expand...
Super saiyan 2 can have that white blonde look as well. I figured that super saiyan air only looks golden whole powering up.
Gohan2.jpg
Click to expand...
Also, they had some terrible animation teams(Studio Live) on that fight vs Cell. They used their best(Keisuke Masunaga/Studio Cockpit) team on the Kamehameha struggle
 
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