Deckard Cain
Banned
Bound should be character specific not essential.
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Tekken 7 Announced, Trailer Revealed, PS4/Xbox One, UE4, More At Comic-Con
- Thread starter zakislam
- Start date
MrCookiepants
Member
Could you explain what that would achieve?
TrafalgarLaw
Banned
I'm not against juggling, I just don't like bound. I'd prefer shorter juggles but keep the damage the same, it keeps the pace of the match up.
Personally, I'm split on bounds existing or not. The one issue I kind of have with them is how they make wall combos easier, as in certain situations once you carry to the wall, you can use your bound to effectively reset the situation instead of knowing exactly what you need to use to get a wall combo based on your positioning and their height.
I don't have a problem with bound combos in VF5:FS (and you can even get two bounds in certain situations!), but combos are shorter in VF and you almost never can carry to the wall and then get significant damage from a wall combo. I don't think people have an issue with the bound itself, or even the damage (Tekken has always been a high-damage series outside of Tekken 4), but the sheer length. Watching yourself get hit for 10-15 seconds sucks.
I don't have a problem with bound combos in VF5:FS (and you can even get two bounds in certain situations!), but combos are shorter in VF and you almost never can carry to the wall and then get significant damage from a wall combo. I don't think people have an issue with the bound itself, or even the damage (Tekken has always been a high-damage series outside of Tekken 4), but the sheer length. Watching yourself get hit for 10-15 seconds sucks.
Tekken 7 Thoughts Plus Additional Info From Harada From ATP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GMvpPW8aog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GMvpPW8aog
LowParry
Member
This is a really good listen actually.
TrafalgarLaw
Banned
1. Tekken 5 was just fine without bound. It's not about juggles becoming harder or longer, with or without bound players can learn just the max. damage juggle and put them out. It's about the pace of a match which suffers when having overly long juggles.
2. You can make simple jabs and moves just do more pushaway for wall carry.
Deckard Cain
Banned
It allows you to balance juggle damage & juggle utility better. Some characters just don't need bound & never did. Some character's really need it to give them more juggle options.
It's like saying everyone should have a ground bounce or wall bounce in MVC3. They don't & it also makes for an intetrsting varity in juggle types.
Agreed, well said.
Deckard Cain
Banned
You really liked dash jabbing in Tekken 5?
LowParry
Member
We'll get our Street Fighter characters yet!
Hmmm I actually agree with that, would also be a way to diversify characters even more. The hard part would be balancing that. Bound moves are really good on oki, and characters without bound could have much worse oki.
Noisepurge
Member
Tekken Revolution does not have bound, its quite like Tekken 5. People should give it a try to see what boundless combos feel like! 
(Da bess)
(Da bess)
Via Purifico
Banned
lol
TrafalgarLaw
Banned
I never dash jabbed so...
was it really a bad plan, Azazel woke up when Jin and Kazuya clashed, and he could obviously influence people, the best plan jin had to kill him was to give him a physical form, and there was only one way to do that, and only someone with the devil gene could trully kill him, sure he did this for selfish reasons, seeing as he wanted to get rid of the devil gene, as Azazel is the origin of the thing, and he assumed that getting rid of him would get rid of all the devil gene, on him and kazuya or any others that might have it
he was willing to be hated by the world and sacrifice himself to get rid of a demon that would ultimately return either way, he basically started everything for the greater good
and how is kazuya doing good stuff, his whole reason in T6 is to kill jin and take over the world himself, if he didnt have any opposition he'd be doing the same as jin or worse
Poetic.Injustice
Member
A bigger issue than juggles is wether they'll add supers.
LowParry
Member
In a way that they did with SC? That would mean meter management and EX moves. I dunno.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
I wonder if it's going to look good, because the PS3/360 Tekken games weren't that impressive graphics wise speaking...
Night_Knight
Unconfirmed Member
I doubt it, Tekken has always been pure fighting no artificial dept (i.e. slap-on meter management). I'm not accusing other fighters of doing so.
The average combo is not 10-15 seconds long, come on now.
Besides the gravity thing I mentioned earlier, one change I personally wouldn't mind is removing the ability to bound after a wall splat.
wasnt that like SC
I doubt they will.
I think it's feasible. Attracting a bigger crowd (and more stream monsters) through even more flashy moves is something that I could see happening.
And it'd just be something that would already be in place for the Tekken side if TxSF ever does happen down the road.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Having supers in would make the game more fun to watch, we all know the complaints about Tekken being boring to watch.
MrCookiepants
Member
I see. The tag assault allowed anyone to do massive combos with the help of a partner, but going back to solo would seriously nerf the damage output on some characters.
I still think it would be best to keep it universal for simplicity's sake. There are other ways to balance the game.
Seems like Namco has been using the Soulcalibur series as its guinea pig for bad ideas. Supers did nothing for that series, so I doubt they'll bother with Tekken.
Injustice says no.
Didn't help SCV.
Night_Knight
Unconfirmed Member
Hmm yeah but Namco have always been way more experimental with the SC series. Tekken tends to remain largely the same every iteration. Tekken does incremental changes each installment hence it's complexity for newcomers, it's literally years of mechanics added on top of refined prior mechanics over time. TTT2 seems to have maxed out that engine. Namco need to do an overhaul and start again, keep it Tekken but new, a new engine is a great start.
Yes it was a bad plan because it involved starting wars and murdering people to summon a demon, that could destroy the entire planet if he fucked up.
Also if kazuya went um apposed he would have done worse? You mean that time he did in tekken 2 and before tekken 3, where he just sat around the zaibatsu and then went into hiding and sexed up his girlfriend. Thats what kazuya did, he didn't fucking start global conflict for selfish reasons on chance bet.
Also Kazuya, already can control the devil. You notice how everytime jin gets whipped up by howroang or his dad or whoever he goes all Devil trigger. His dad chooses not to do that. Maybe ... you know... he could learn how to do that. Instead of being like FChamp with full meter, apparently its possible. It took science and some concentration but its possible, dude is the leader of the zaibastu, I am sure he has enough funds to find something.
Teknopathetic
Member
"Having supers in would make the game more fun to watch, we all know the complaints about Tekken being boring to watch."
US gamers care too much about gimmicks and unblockables and constant bullshit happening on screen to ever get into 3D fighters, regardless of whether they get supers or anything like that. I also have a theory that the speed of attacks in 3D fighters makes 3D fighting games lack a certain visual "punch" that 2D fighters have. It's almost surprising when someone lands an attack in 2D fighters because it happens in such a short amount of time.
Unfortunate, because VF5FS is the best fighting game of the generation and SCV/TTT2 are really good too.
US gamers care too much about gimmicks and unblockables and constant bullshit happening on screen to ever get into 3D fighters, regardless of whether they get supers or anything like that. I also have a theory that the speed of attacks in 3D fighters makes 3D fighting games lack a certain visual "punch" that 2D fighters have. It's almost surprising when someone lands an attack in 2D fighters because it happens in such a short amount of time.
Unfortunate, because VF5FS is the best fighting game of the generation and SCV/TTT2 are really good too.
Night_Knight
Unconfirmed Member
Really? I think Tekken is mad fun to watch (been watching tournament vids it since T6 days), I actually find watching FGs with supers really tedious, I mean it's just a cinematic being played out, taking several seconds out of the fight, at least with Tekken the intensity is constantly there.
Well you'd have to assume the Devil Gene would be the destruction of the world eventually if left unchecked.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
I didn't know that either. I am confused about one thing though. I thought fans/gamers loved and preferred these lengthy, endless combos and that is why developers keep adding them in practically all fighters from Skullgirls, Killer Instinct to Injustice. Personally, I don't mind TTT2's or DOA5's combos or the length of them, but I will admit that I wouldn't mind if fighters in general tone down the combos in the future. I think that would actually encourage more fighting and strategy than just see who can land the launcher first for the elongated combo that will absorb 50-70% of their opponents strength.
God I hope not. I didn't like what it did to Soul Calibur's gameplay. Not every fighting game needs meter.
except at the point in Tekken 6, jin is already stated as controlling or partially control is devil gene, and kazuya isnt the same man at different points in his life, Kazuya by the time of Tekken 6 is already a different man compared to him in T2, in T2 he also wasnt sitting around and by canon he was worse than his father, but in that game he still had a good side, by the time of T4 its pretty much gone, also he can only control that power because its only a part of it, since its devided between him and jin
what do you think would happen if he tried to take over the world, you think people at large would be ok with it, there would obviously be a war
jin started a global conflict only partly by selfish reasons, and that reason, getting rid of a power that can affect a person to do evil while also giving them huge amounts of power wouldnt really be that selfish, the other is getting rid of a demon that would eventually get a physical form anyway, and would destroy the world, so why not revive it and kill it when jin is at his best, and obviously, he didnt mess it all up, he saved the world from a greater evil, while willingly choosing to be hated and remembered as a villain and sacrificing is life(even though that part didnt happen if the after credits scene is anything to go buy)
Nobody had issues juggling in Tekken 5. Just the juggle capability of some characters weren't as good as other characters. This is no different than any other fighting game where some characters can combo better than others.
On average, bound really only adds 1 - 3 hits per juggle. What really made juggles last longer after Tekken 6 was NOT bound, but the changes to the float properties of the victim and addition of lots of moves that serve as juggle fillers.
What bound really added was improved oki for a lot of characters. The ability to spike an opponent at the end of a juggle to set up a advantageous oki situation was actually very rare before Tekken 6. It was a big part of the reason that Devil Jin was so good in Tekken DR, because he had fantastic mid stage oki which was INCREDIBLY rare back then. The addition of bound gives every character a universal option to set up a spike into an advantageous oki situation. This is why bound as a specific mechanic is needed.
If you remove bound and try to bandaid this aspect by giving everyone a spike move, then the juggle physics are going to have to be completely reworked, because as it is now, spiking an opponent without bound still makes the opponent slide out of range for anything meaningful. In that situation, the only characters with strong oki will be characters like Lars who has a spike option that moves him forward to negate the effect of the opponent sliding away. It'll be another Tekken DR Devil Jin situation all over again.
On another note that is unrelated to the quoted post, even in Tekken Tag 2, your average juggle is no more than 4-5 seconds. As usual, a lot of hyperbole comes into play when it comes to people complaining about juggles.
sixteen-bit
Member
Agreed. T6 and TTT2 had really bad image quality on consoles thanks to dat sub-HD resolution.
This was another bone I had to pick with part 6. Who the hell thought it would be okay to come out with Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3-style breaking floors in this day and age? DOA2 was doing proper destructible environments back on PS2. Tekken 6's effort was just beyond pathetic. Why bother?
Give this is a watch people, Aris did a great job summarizing his discussions with Harada about Tekken.
It's not about 2D or 3D. The reasons people are bashing juggles in Tekken is because of quotes like this:
This isn't something you argue uniquely to 3D fighting games. The point being made here is that Tekken is the only series that's consistently getting scrutinized about its juggle system for the reasons of "it breaks the pacing"/"it takes too long" when those exact reasons can be applied to most other fighting games.
That's pretty good haha.
Night_Knight
Unconfirmed Member
Well said, this also explain TR having very long combos despite no bound, I mean look at Jun.
Noisepurge
Member
Nah, just continue the Revolution trend of no bounds. They can rebalance Lars and Devil Jin to match the others.
Night_Knight
Unconfirmed Member
I hate how you just completely disregarded that person's post and just said 'nah' with no answer of your own, at least provide a counter argument, maybe a mod should set up a poll to see everyone's opinion regarding bound.
I'm saying be for or against bound but at least provide a reason as to why you feel that way about bounds.
Tekken 5 was the pinnacle. I wish they could scrap part 6 and carry on from 5.
Not sure rage metre fits that description. The way I see it VF5:FS is the only pure fighter left.
Hear hear!
Except the pace doesn't suffer at all.
Tekken 6 combos are not long, and the longer ones are a lot harder to pull off/involve wall breaks and ground breaks.
You see, it's perfectly fine in Tekken Revolution because you can't refloat the initial frames of backrolls in that game like you can in the other games, so it's a moot point there.
The thing is, most of the old school heads absolutely hate that particular aspect of Tekken Revolution. So if you want backroll floats to stay while not making it super exclusive to certain characters, you need bound.