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Special C · Oct 25, 2014

I think Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer is one of the greatest MP games of all time, and one of the primary reasons was its DLC model. Ever since the dawn of DLC, devs have been charging for maps. I think it's perfectly ok for devs to charge for content, but the days of paying for map packs has to go.

Under the old style of making maps free after a set time it worked. People could pay for the maps early and play them in special playlists, then they became available after a short time for everyone. For some reason that doesn't happen anymore.

So now, for multiplayer games with map packs the player bases get fractured heavily, and people who bought the maps have no reliable way to play them. I know many of you hate microtransactions, but it's a small price to pay for devs being able to give out free map DLC and updates a la ME3.

So give me shortcuts and cosmetics as Microtransactions. I LIKE earning stuff, so I won't be tempted to buy shortcuts but other can and will, and I get free maps in the process. And if I decide a game is worthy of additional support, then I can support the developers by buying some cosmetics.

silvermember · Oct 25, 2014

Why give for free when you can charge money?

Netprints · Oct 25, 2014

Plants vs zombie garden warfare does this extremely well. Free dlc with a bunch of unlocks. You could buy coins to buy card packs in game but you really don't need to. the amount of coins you receive after each match doesn't make it feel like a grind.

Lulu23 · Oct 25, 2014

I think hardly anyone is going to disagree with this.

Unfortunately, I think it's simply that more money is to be made by charging for maps, even though it splits playerbases.
Also, if you look at CoD or Battlefield, having paid map packs isn't stopping publishers/devs from implementing microtransactions, so having them isn't really a replacement for revenue from map packs.

Silky · Oct 25, 2014

Netprints said:
Plants vs zombie garden warfare does this extremely well. Free dlc with a bunch of unlocks. You could buy coins to buy card packs in game but you really don't need to fire to the amount of coins you receive after each match.

Yeah, this. Co-Op earns you like ~8K a game, whereas most VS matches earn you ~4K. There's plenty to unlock in the game so I haven't felt the need to pay for coins.

Final Verdict · Oct 25, 2014

Or, how about launching with enough maps that you don't need DLC, and simply continue to support the community with free playlist updates.

Edwardo · Oct 25, 2014

Special C said:
So now, for multiplayer games with map packs the player bases get fractured heavily, and people who bought the maps have no reliable way to play them.

Yep, I know what you mean.

There have been plenty of times where I'll want to play with friends, but some have dlc and others don't because they either didn't want to spend the extra money or just don't have it. It gets even worse as the game gets older too. As soon as you start losing playerbase, that separation between players w/ and w/out dlc becomes more noticeable and adds more time between games. That and you end up running into the same people over and over.

Chris1 · Oct 25, 2014

Meh, I prefer map packs as long as there is an option to disable them so it doesn't split the playerbase up completely.

I just don't trust 99.9% of devs to do micro transactions good, it would get to the point where you would have to pay per weapon/attachments. I agree that PVZ micro transactions are done in a decent way though.

Oemenia · Oct 25, 2014

Bungie used to do this, but yeah why split the userbase when there are so many other games to play.

jackissocool · Oct 25, 2014

Final Verdict said:
Or, how about launching with enough maps that you don't need DLC, and simply continue to support the community with free playlist updates.

I will never not want more maps.

Thank you Killzone!

Diablohead · Oct 25, 2014

Final Verdict said:
Or, how about launching with enough maps that you don't need DLC, and simply continue to support the community with free playlist updates.

Fresh official maps can really help keep the game alive more then just adding shotty snipers to the same maps can.

Sinfamy · Oct 25, 2014

Charging for maps is terrible. It completely fragments the user base, plus nearly no one will play them after a few months. Look at most games, DLC maps are a ghost town.

sturgboski · Oct 25, 2014

Crap on the games all you want, but Killzone Shadows Fall and Driveclub seem like they did this right. Outside of a new class, co op mode (which itself is getting free maps), and the occasion skin, there is no need for the Killzone season pass as you get all the maps for free. Driveclub is giving out free tracks and cars with the season pass just getting more. Honestly I am liking this approach Sony is taking so far this gen with their first party titles, hope it sticks.

Welfare · Oct 25, 2014

This needs to be the standard, especially in competitive games. Don't split your user base from awesome maps and make LAN tournaments useless there's a "Complete Edition" of your game. Make some badass skins or a Single player expansion and have those cost money.

jelly · Oct 25, 2014

Free maps and paid cosmetics only.

jpax · Oct 25, 2014

Players asking to get fucked. Every publisher's wet dream come true... In what sad times we live in.

bigbaldwolf86 · Oct 25, 2014

jpax said:
Players asking to get fucked. Every publisher's wet dream come true... In what sad times we live in.

Free maps and paid cosmetics is the lesser of two evils and one that I would welcome over the current situation.

DudeWithNoName · Oct 25, 2014

I agree with just about every post in here. Essentially, when MP DLC maps are released is about time I move onto a different game.

Canis lupus · Oct 25, 2014

Special C said:
I
So give me shortcuts and cosmetics as Microtransactions. I LIKE earning stuff, so I won't be tempted to buy shortcuts but other can and will, and I get free maps in the process. And if I decide a game is worthy of additional support, then I can support the developers by buying some cosmetics.

Nope. Give me free maps and no microtransactions like Killzone and Driveclub.

Bessy67 · Oct 25, 2014

jpax said:
Players asking to get fucked. Every publisher's wet dream come true... In what sad times we live in.

How is it getting fucked? Some of us would like to get post release content that doesn't split the userbase. It would be great to get it completely free but it costs them money to make it so they need to get their money somehow. I don't see any problem with letting the small amount of people who are willing to shell out for microtransactions fund the DLC for a game.

Canis lupus said:
Nope. Give me free maps and no microtransactions like Killzone and Driveclub.

Huh? Both have paid DLC...

jpax · Oct 25, 2014

bigbaldwolf86 said:
Free maps and paid cosmetics is the lesser of two evils and one that I would welcome over the current situation.

For a game you paid money for? So your solution for a bad situation is to make it worse? You know that no one will make it pure cosmetics once it is established, even in the OT there was talk of time savers, so literally game design breaking methods.

Bessy67 said:
How is it getting fucked? Some of us would like to get post release content that doesn't split the userbase. It would be great to get it completely free but it costs them money to make it so they need to get their money somehow. I don't see any problem with letting the small amount of people who are willing to shell out for microtransactions fund the DLC for a game.

Dlc might cut some content to sell it separate but Mt always influence the basic game design. If you want developers to design the game based around how much money you are willing to spend?

Daedardus · Oct 25, 2014

Why not free maps and free unlockables and try to earn money based on continuing sales?

bigbaldwolf86 · Oct 25, 2014

jpax said:
For a game you paid money for? So your solution for a bad situation is to make it worse? You know that no one will make it pure cosmetics once it is established, even in the OT there was talk of time savers, so literally game design breaking methods.

Wow why are you so aggressive? I never mentioned anything about time savers but I don't like them if you must know. I wad simply stating what I would prefer over the current situation since there's no way paid dlc is going away anytime soon.

Bessy67 · Oct 25, 2014

jpax said:
For a game you paid money for? So your solution for a bad situation is to make it worse? You know that no one will make it pure cosmetics once it is established, even in the OT there was talk of time savers, so literally game design breaking methods.

You paid money for the base game. That does not entitle you to post-release content. Would it be cool if it did? Sure. But it's not free to develop so these devs/pubs are going to find a way to get paid from it. IMO it's better to give free maps so as to not split the community and find other ways to get money post-release.

Special C · Oct 25, 2014

Canis lupus said:
Nope. Give me free maps and no microtransactions like Killzone and Driveclub.

Ok, but the game is still supported financially by another form of DLC, so it's the same thing that I'm applauding. But I'd rather have microtransactions be the form of paid DLC rather than a new class. Mass Effect 3 added maps, enemies, and new classes for free. All because they had optional shortcut microtransactions.

GHG · Oct 25, 2014

Why not free maps and no microtransactions with a fair progression system?

Remember those days?

Rainy Dog · Oct 25, 2014

Special C said:
So now, for multiplayer games with map packs the player bases get fractured heavily, and people who bought the maps have no reliable way to play them.

Yep, I recently went back to BF4 after an 8 month hiatus and I'd missed 3 map packs since I last played. Naturally I wanted to see what I'd missed out on (and what I'd already paid for via. BF Premium) but there's only a couple of matches on rotation at once for each DLC pack on PS4 and only on one game mode out of over half a dozen at that.

Bessy67 · Oct 25, 2014

GHG said:
Why not free maps and no microtransactions with a fair progression system?

Remember those days?

You mean the days of no post release content? Yeah. I remember that.

Hip Hop · Oct 25, 2014

Daedardus said:
Why not free maps and free unlockables and try to earn money based on continuing sales?

Because it doesn't work that way now in days.

I support this OP. This is the way to go forward. Charge for cosmetics and stuff like that, even weapons for an FPS, I'd be fine with that, but don't splinter up the community with map packs. That's just detrimental to the game.

Seanspeed · Oct 25, 2014

Daedardus said:
Why not free maps and free unlockables and try to earn money based on continuing sales?

Because they probably make more off selling DLC to existing customers.

How many *more* people will buy the game because multiplayer gets free maps? Will it be more than the amount they'd make on DLC doing it the 'normal' way?

I'd guess probably not in most cases.

klodeckel · Oct 25, 2014

Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare is the best example on the market on how to do it right.

Phat Michael · Oct 25, 2014

Me3 is my fave mp game of all time. The support bioware and ea gave for the game was fantastic. Purchases were completely optional and you really didn't need to do it.

This model is great and I hope its on the next ME game.

jpax · Oct 25, 2014

bigbaldwolf86 said:
Wow why are you so aggressive? I never mentioned anything about time savers but I don't like them if you must know. I wad simply stating what I would prefer over the current situation since there's no way paid dlc is going away anytime soon.

You talked about purely cosmetics and I told you that this is not gonna happen. And no you did not mention time savers that's why I said that it was stated in the op.
But I must apologize to you I did not want to come over aggressively, I am not a native speaker and I do the best I can to express myself. Again sorry.

jelly · Oct 25, 2014

DudeWithNoName said:
I agree with just about every post in here. Essentially, when MP DLC maps are released is about time I move onto a different game.

I think publishers actually hope consumers do this.

Daedardus said:
Why not free maps and free unlockables and try to earn money based on continuing sales?

They can't think long term when $60 is on the table again. I don't think they need to support a game forever but more than a year or two would be nice. Keep the original game valuable with long term free support, that's your extra money not from a minority that buys map packs

Which leads me to used games that are a kick in the teeth if they offer so much free content. Solution, buy a digital copy, get free DLC forever, buy retail or used, pony up extra for DLC.

alterno69 · Oct 25, 2014

It makes no sense in less popular games to charge for maps, you should be courting people towards your game not driving them away, see Titanfall for reference. COD can get away with it cause there's so many players there it doesn't feel deserted even with so many map packs.

Seanspeed · Oct 25, 2014

jelly said:
I think publishers actually hope consumers do this.

If this was the case, they just wouldn't do DLC at all.

jpax · Oct 25, 2014

Bessy67 said:
You paid money for the base game. That does not entitle you to post-release content. Would it be cool if it did? Sure. But it's not free to develop so these devs/pubs are going to find a way to get paid from it. IMO it's better to give free maps so as to not split the community and find other ways to get money post-release.

Oh I completely agree with you. We are only entitled to a fully functioning game. After release support must be financed. But I do not agree on the point that we should sacrifice the game design itself to achieve that goal.

Qassim · Oct 25, 2014

jpax said:
For a game you paid money for? So your solution for a bad situation is to make it worse? You know that no one will make it pure cosmetics once it is established, even in the OT there was talk of time savers, so literally game design breaking methods.

CSGO and DOTA2 are purely cosmetic (one is free to play, one isn't). They're very successful and it is a huge part of the reason why those games are so popular.

CSGO does the 'operations' every so often, where they put maps on the official servers for you to play for a small fee (but you can play those maps for free on any other server, in fact you can play hundreds, if not thousands of maps for free on other servers). But the main thing is that the driving force behind the business model is cosmetic items (weapon skins).

jpax · Oct 25, 2014

Qassim said:
Uhm, CSGO and DOTA2 are purely cosmetic (one is free to play, one isn't). They're very successful and is a huge part of the reason why those games are so popular.

Yes and they are basically the only ones... And both valve. Would I trust valve to do the right thing? Sure why not. Any other publisher? Yeah not so much.
Remember the ea guy which talked about mt in bf? That a player would not think twice if he has to pay a dollar while in combat to get a ammo refill. This is what we are heading towards and not awesome player respecting content like in poe dota2 etc.

Bessy67 · Oct 25, 2014

jpax said:
Yes and they are basically the only ones... And both valve. Would I trust valve to do the right thing? Sure why not. Any other publisher? Yeah not so much.
Remember the ea guy which talked about mt in bf? That a player would not think twice if he has to pay a dollar while in combat to get a ammo refill. This is what we are heading towards and not awesome player respecting content like in poe dota2 etc.

EA has already done well with this model twice though. Mass Effect 3 and PvZ Garden Warfare both had microtransactions that sped up progression but didn't hurt the experience if you didn't use them.

bigbaldwolf86 · Oct 25, 2014

jpax said:
You talked about purely cosmetics and I told you that this is not gonna happen. And no you did not mention time savers that's why I said that it was stated in the op.
But I must apologize to you I did not want to come over aggressively, I am not a native speaker and I do the best I can to express myself. Again sorry.

Don't worry about it

Some games have done pure cosmetics and have proven to be very successful. I think it's a better business model than map packs and time savers and hope that publishers attitiudes change.

GHG · Oct 25, 2014

Bessy67 said:
You mean the days of no post release content? Yeah. I remember that.

Yeh no PC game ever got free expansion packs. Ever.

Terrible terrible dark times.

Kill3r7 · Oct 25, 2014

It's great for gamers but you are asking these companies to leave easy money on the table. All the games listed so far such as Mass Effect 3, PvZ, DC, Killzone etc choose to give away free DLC maps because they were trying to create a competitive product/community. That said I don't expect COD, Halo, BF or any of the heavy hitters to do this. DLC is easy money.

Special C · Oct 25, 2014

Kill3r7 said:
It's great for gamers but you are asking these companies to leave easy money on the table. All the games listed so far such as Mass Effect 3, PvZ, DC, Killzone etc choose to give away free DLC maps because they were trying to create a competitive product/community. That said I don't expect COD, Halo, BF or any of the heavy hitters to do this. DLC is easy money.

Apparently that DLC model works very well for EA. They tried with ME3 and PvZ and now they've announced the same DLC model for Dragon Age Inquisition MP.

jpax · Oct 25, 2014

Bessy67 said:
EA has already done well with this model twice though. Mass Effect 3 and PvZ Garden Warfare both had microtransactions that sped up progression but didn't hurt the experience if you didn't use them.

This is called the wedge... And do not forget pvz was without mt in the beginning. Do you really believe that publishers will not try to get the most money out of you? They a planting the hook and the more players are willing to participate the worse the situation will get. Remember the last word on what will be put in the game comes from business people and not gamers or devs. With MT not the game itself is the product but the gamer. In a not so distend future we are not customers anymore but the product with which money is made.

bigbaldwolf86 said:
Don't worry about it

Some games have done pure cosmetics and have proven to be very successful. I think it's a better business model than map packs and time savers and hope that publishers attitiudes change.

I really hope do but I do not believe thus will happen.

Seanspeed · Oct 25, 2014

Special C said:
Apparently that DLC model works very well for EA. They tried with ME3 and PvZ and now they've announced the same DLC model for Dragon Age Inquisition MP.

They can sell Mass Effect without pushing multiplayer. And I don't think Garden Warfare sold that great.

Ten bucks says the new Battlefield still has paid multiplayer maps. Its just too much money to leave on the table.

Kill3r7 · Oct 25, 2014

Special C said:
Apparently that DLC model works very well for EA. They tried with ME3 and PvZ and now they've announced the same DLC model for Dragon Age Inquisition MP.

Let me know when they implement it in Hardline. All the games listed so far are not exactly MP behemoths. Free Map packs are great for fostering a strong online presence/community but not necessary if you are an established franchise.

That said, free Map packs are great for us and I for one would prefer them over paid DLC.

Hispanic! At the Disco · Oct 25, 2014

Daedardus said:
Why not free maps and free unlockables and try to earn money based on continuing sales?

Because theyre a company and their primary goal is to make money. Theyre just not gonna sit on their hands when theres money to be made in an effort to seem nice.

In the case of Mass Effect and PvZ it seems like they figure they couldnt sell very many maps anyways for what those games are, so still money made in a more consumer friendly way.

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