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LookAtMeGo · Oct 25, 2014

Last gen needs to die. It had its time. Its time to move on. Im not saying you need to go buy a new console but if you don't then you can play the massive library already out for those ancient pieces of hardware. The sooner last gen consoles get dropped the sooner we will see games reach their potential on the new hardware.

L4DANathan · Oct 25, 2014

Don't worry, OP. Arkham Knight is coming to the rescue, Batman will save you.

Parmenides · Oct 25, 2014

ksdixon said:
Certain people aren't going to plonk down money on a new console in order to play a better version of a game they want, they'll just get the game for their already-owned console. For them it's the difference between £50 on last gen and £350+£50 on the current gen, and price will always win.

PS3 and X360 have good third party support, next-gen consoles aren't exactly cheap, people are buying PS360 games instead of buying new consoles ...

Platform net revenue - GAAP (in millions)

EA (April - June) 2014

360 / PS3 -> $543

XBO / PS4 -> $293

------------------------------

Activision (April - June) 2014

360 / PS3 / Wii -> $342

XBO / PS4 / Wii U -> $137

US + JP - (Jan - Sep)

2007 Wii -> 6.03 m

2001 PS2 -> 5.07 m

2014 PS4 -> 3.20 m

2006 360 -> 2.13 m

2007 PS3 -> 1.92 m

2002 GC -> 1.74 m

2002 Xbox -> 1.71 m

2014 Xbox One -> 1.71 m

ksdixon said:
The only way to get those players to upgrade is to literally only put a game on current gen, so if they 'really' want it that much they will suddenly be able to justify getting a new console. .

GTA,MGS,GT,FF games were PS2 exclusives. That's why PS2 sales exploded in 2001.

The PS2 sold a whopping five million units in December 2001, including two million units in the US.

PS1 to PS2 was a well executed transition :

- PS1 reached price sensitive consumers (late adopters)

- longtime PS1 owners shifted very quickly to PS2

The opposite of what's happening right now.

Code:

 PS1+PS2  Production Shipments of HW (Unit: Million) 


          Ja-Mr'01    Ap-Jn'01    Jl-Sp'01    Ja-Sp'01       

PS1+PS2     6.83        7.55        7.44        21.82

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

                    HW Shipments (Sell-in)

          Ja-Mr'14    Ap-Jn'14    Jl-Sp'14    Ja-Sp'14       

PS3+PS4     3.70        3.50         ?          7.20  

360+XBO     2.0         1.1         2.4         5.5

Karu · Oct 25, 2014

Cross-Gen is saving my ass right now with Dragon Age: Inquisition. My laptop from 2010 is not powerful enough to run anything beyond 2012 and I got no money to either buy a PS4 or much less a better pc. So... my opinion on this topic might be skewed. Don't see cross-gen as anything long term though, you already see change even with such a popular franchise like AssCreed.

Grief.exe · Oct 25, 2014

MrNyarlathotep said:
So all games should have PC as the lead platform?

Kintaro said:
This has been my biggest takeaway from cross gen complaining. I just sit back and think "Welcome to the world of PC gamers...since around 2004." Except, for the most part, we just got over it and wait for sales on games that we know should be PC led instead.

The irony in all of the resolution gate or parity threads is always quite humorous.

Karu said:
Cross-Gen is saving my ass right now with Dragon Age: Inquisition. My laptop from 2010 is not powerful enough to run anything beyond 2012 and I got no money to either buy a PS4 or much less a better pc. So... my opinion on this topic might be skewed. Don't see cross-gen as anything long term though, you already see change even with such a popular franchise like AssCreed.

The minimum requirements for Inquisition seem fair. Worth a try if you are interested in the game.

dead souls · Oct 25, 2014

Why would I buy an XB1 or a PS4 at this point, or really any time in the fall? The libraries are terrible and the big fall titles are either totally uninteresting to me (Sunset Overdrive) or in franchises that, while I like, are not nearly enough to induce me to buy new hardware (AC, Dragon Age).

This gen hasn't had a "that game" yet, where people can look at it and go "Oh shit, this is why I need a new console."

I completely understand why lots of people aren't upgrading yet.

autoduelist · Oct 25, 2014

vareon said:
That's the problem with the industry, apparently. Right now it's not the majority of the market that needs a new hardware, it's the manufacturers. Apparently many people are content with what they have and spend their money somewhere else.

With the previous gen, we take for granted that in each transition developers will make games for the shiny new hardware and so people will follow. In reality developers and publishers will only have both feet on new generation if there are any value in them, and right now the value just isn't there yet. (Also see: Media Create threads)

What? The adoption rate of the new consoles is amazing. The PS4 is selling like hotcakes, and the XI isn't doing bad either. It just takes time to get a market share significant enough for 'single gen' games. That delay will exist no matter what the situation, because that's how selling things works -- you have early adopters, then general adoption. At a year in, we're just now reaching the point where 'cross-gen' will start to die off.

kick51 · Oct 25, 2014

If cross-gen is a "problem" for the industry, then why is it happening? Are these companies shooting themselves in the foot? Are you an industry expert?

I think it's just a problem for early adopters on neogaf who are obsessed with getting everyone else to validate their hasty purchases.

LookAtMeGo · Oct 25, 2014

dead souls said:
Why would I buy an XB1 or a PS4 at this point, or really any time in the fall? The libraries are terrible and the big fall titles are either totally uninteresting to me (Sunset Overdrive) or in franchises that, while I like, are not nearly enough to induce me to buy new hardware (AC, Dragon Age).

This gen hasn't had a "that game" yet, where people can look at it and go "Oh shit, this is why I need a new console."

I completely understand why lots of people aren't upgrading yet.

And the sooner that more devs drop last gen consoles and build games from the ground up for the new hardware the sooner people will see "that game" that makes them want to make the jump.

This gen has had lots of reasons for a lot of people to make the jump so far. Look at the number of current gen consoles sold.

BigDug13 · Oct 25, 2014

kick51 said:
If cross-gen is a "problem" for the industry, then why is it happening? Are these companies shooting themselves in the foot? Are you an industry expert?

I think it's just a problem for early adopters on neogaf who are obsessed with getting everyone else to validate their hasty purchases.

They're not shooting themselves in the foot financially, but they certainly are creatively. Without the ability to even throw more characters at you on screen because they have maxed out PS360's tiny 512MB RAM, game development has been stunted.

system11 · Oct 25, 2014

I have a PS4 but I'm finding more games are still coming out for the PS3 that I want to play, this gen for me so far has been greatly disappointing - aside from a resolution bump in most games, they're still lurching around at 30fps in most cases, so there's not much of a reason to upgrade.

I think the previous/current gen crossover is going to last a long time.

Lindsay · Oct 25, 2014

PS4 not having BC + PS3 getting cross-gen stuff + PS3 still getting exclusive stuff = no reason ta "upgrade"! Saves me a whole lotta monies right now, and later on while the next systems and their few exclusive games drop in price!

TheSpaceBetween · Oct 25, 2014

Another reason to own a Wii U I guess. When Ninty moves on, they move on.

Seriously though, it does suck, but we know this is how it is going into each new gen. If it bothers you that much, vote with your wallet.

Grief.exe · Oct 25, 2014

Lindsay said:
PS4 not having BC + PS3 getting cross-gen stuff + PS3 still getting exclusive stuff = no reason ta "upgrade"! Saves me a whole lotta monies right now, and later on while the next systems and their few exclusive games drop in price!

I seriously would have gone PS4 day one if it had backwards compatibility. Now, there really isn't much reason until Bloodborne, even then, the games that interest me are incredibly sparse.

BokehKing · Oct 25, 2014

It was rather simple for me
I wanted 64 player battlefield with out a PC and I wanted nicer graphics, so I upgraded immediately.

Microsoft screwed up by releasing Titanfall on 360

Ps3, I couldn't wait to get rid of that crap ds3 controller, so ps4 was an obvious choice

EmeraldSwords · Oct 25, 2014

devilsadvocat said:
It was rather simple for me
I wanted 64 player battlefield with out a PC and I wanted nicer graphics, so I upgraded immediately.

Microsoft screwed up by releasing Titanfall on 360

Ps3, I couldn't wait to get rid of that crap ds3 controller, so ps4 was an obvious choice

You could use your ds4 on ps3 , but it's gotta be hooked up with a charging cable in order to use it.

The Beard · Oct 25, 2014

The problem isn't necessarily crossgen, it's the fact that there is very little difference between the ports. Aside from a visual bump, there's usually not much difference between the port made for the decade old consoles, and the port made for the brand new consoles. Combine that with a bit of a shaky start (PS4) i.e. Battlefield 4 conquest64 being shit for months, MLB The Show 14' being a total fucking failure, Driveclub shitting all over itself, etc. It's pretty fucking sad.

If I was living check to check, dropping $500 to jump in on current gen wouldn't be high up on my list of priorities.

MormaPope · Oct 25, 2014

BigDug13 said:
They're not shooting themselves in the foot financially, but they certainly are creatively. Without the ability to even throw more characters at you on screen because they have maxed out PS360's tiny 512MB RAM, game development has been stunted.

Yeah, because PS4's exclusive lineup thus far is pushing creativity over visual quality, right?

Some of the most creative games in the past few years look minimalistic as fuck. Creativity isn't tied to hardware power, hasn't been for a long time now.

Ooccoo · Oct 25, 2014

Honestly I feel like I shouldn't have bought my PS4 one year ago. This will be the first and last time I buy a "next-gen" console day one. It's just not worth it, and to think the PS3 has MORE features is just absurd. The games mostly suck too, even one year after launch. There's only a handful of worthwhile titles that are exclusive to each platform.

BigDug13 · Oct 25, 2014

MormaPope said:
Yeah, because PS4's exclusive lineup thus far is pushing creativity over visual quality, right?

Some of the most creative games in the past few years look minimalistic as fuck. Creativity isn't tied to hardware power, hasn't been for a long time now.

Not talking about look and graphics. Talking about limits of AI, limits in number of opponents, this is the specific and exact reason Borderlands 2 playthrough 3 did nothing but quadruple enemy hitpoints. Gearbox came out and told us that due to console hardware limitations, they cannot throw more enemies at us.

Just because so far Sony WWS hasn't worked out any creativity so far doesn't mean that having much more capable CPU, RAM, and GPGPU can't allow for more creative freedom. This year alone we got the Nemesis system that was not replicated on PS360 and was ONLY available on PS4/XBO so obviously there are creative things that can be held back by hardware.

Sentenza · Oct 25, 2014

The nerve of those bastards sticking to their old consoles.

MormaPope · Oct 25, 2014

BigDug13 said:
Not talking about look and graphics. Talking about limits of AI, limits in number of opponents, this is the specific and exact reason Borderlands 2 playthrough 3 did nothing but quadruple enemy hitpoints. Gearbox came out and told us that due to console hardware limitations, they cannot throw more enemies at us.

Just because so far Sony WWS hasn't worked out any creativity so far doesn't mean that having much more capable CPU, RAM, and GPGPU can't allow for more creative freedom. This year alone we got the Nemesis system that was not replicated on PS360 and was ONLY available on PS4/XBO so obviously there are creative things that can be held back by hardware.

I can say the same thing but reversed, just because those things are better does not mean developers will prioritize design creativity over making a game look prettier. Obviously more power does mean there is higher ceiling for creativity, but the games pushing creativity the most are indie titles that can run on almost any PC rig, but are too power intensive to run on last gen consoles.

Hell, mid tier games disappeared on consoles because of rising budgets. AAA titles bombing is one helluva risk. Because of that power consoles will receive less non indie games this time around.

That room for creativity, for better visuals, is coming at a cost.

Nickle · Oct 25, 2014

I bet you have tons of outdated tech in your house that has newer and better models available. Stop whining.

aly · Oct 25, 2014

I'm sorry for you since it makes sense to want everyone to upgrade. But, I'm kinda glad cause I don't wanna upgrade right now and when I do it will be cheaper.

rokkerkory · Oct 25, 2014

Yeah i agree here, don't want last gen games to hold back current gen games but companies gotta make monies too

BigDug13 · Oct 25, 2014

MormaPope said:
I can say the same thing but reversed, just because those things are better does not mean developers will prioritize design creativity over making a game look prettier. Obviously more power does mean there is higher ceiling for creativity, but the games pushing creativity the most are indie titles that can run on almost any PC rig, but are too power intensive to run on last gen consoles.

Hell, mid tier games disappeared on consoles because of rising budgets. AAA titles bombing is one helluva risk. Because of that power consoles will receive less non indie games this time around.

That room for creativity, for better visuals, is coming at a cost.

I gave you an example of new gameplay features that have been created that are not possible to recreate on last gen. Therefore developers have greater possibilities when handed more power. No Man's Sky playable on an Xbox 360? Doubtful.

Being financially hamstrung away from being creative is another matter entirely. I know WHY we still have crossgen games. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.

The Lamonster · Oct 25, 2014

I agree with OP. In fact, as a multi-console owner, I am not even a big fan of cross-platform games. If every game were an exclusive the player base wouldn't be split up.

LookAtMeGo · Oct 25, 2014

Mr. Macintosh!! said:
I bet you have tons of outdated tech in your house that has newer and better models available. Stop whining.

Ya screw HDTV's, I got me here a CRT that does me just fine, ah-hyuck! ;p

The Lone Courier · Oct 25, 2014

Still rocking my PS3 probably won't switch for another year or two.

MormaPope · Oct 25, 2014

BigDug13 said:
I gave you an example of new gameplay features that have been created that are not possible to recreate on last gen. Therefore developers have greater possibilities when handed more power. No Man's Sky playable on an Xbox 360? Doubtful.

Being financially hamstrung away from being creative is another matter entirely. I know WHY we still have crossgen games. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.

I didn't disagree with this notion, I'm doubtful that the majority of developers will all of a sudden be more creative because of the added power. The nemesis system doesn't make Shadow of Mordor not a Assassins Creed/Arkham hybrid. Borderlands has incredibly bland quest design and game design in general. Games will always have cut features, mechanics, and design philosophies for many reasons.

And no, budget and the cost of development are relevant in this conversation.

Masquerader · Oct 25, 2014

This thread, pfft.

As a gamer, I know how much better the current gen consoles are. But explaining that to anyone who isn't a dedicated gamer would make me sound like a complete and total nerd. Currently, justifying the purchase of one would make me sound like an elitist nerd.

RoboPlato · Oct 25, 2014

Currently my big worry with so many cross gen games is how prevalent they are combined with predictions of a short, 5 year gen. It's already a year in and we barely have any games made from for new hardware. With stuff like Rise of the Tomb Raider being cross gen, we're still going to be seeing them for a while and may only end up with a couple years of properly supported consoles before the new ones roll out.

Aces&Eights · Oct 25, 2014

Hey, some people need to pay for other things and that's quite alright. My gripe is devs who make a cross gen game and just make a lazy port to the newer consoles.

RedSwirl · Oct 25, 2014

I don't know if it's been said in the nine pages of this thread, but this is simply the pain of the early adopter. It's just going on a bit longer for this generation.

The real next-gen games are going to start coming in 2015. Actually, Assassin's Creed Unity is probably the vanguard of the first wave of actual substantial PS4/Xbox One games. Just sit tight man.

LookAtMeGo · Oct 25, 2014

kick51 said:
If cross-gen is a "problem" for the industry, then why is it happening? Are these companies shooting themselves in the foot? Are you an industry expert?

I think it's just a problem for early adopters on neogaf who are obsessed with getting everyone else to validate their hasty purchases.

But without the hasty purchases of early adopters the industry would crash and burn.

I don't think cross gen is a problem for the industry its just a hindrance on progression.

Furyous · Oct 25, 2014

You're coming from an elite perspective. Let's look at this from another perspective:

Those gamers are customers that allow our favorite developers to keep making games. I've owned every Sony console at launch since the first Playstation. I can make the argument that it's best to wait a year and a half at the earliest to purchase a new console due to quality used games on the market. I should've waited until this November to buy a PS4 instead of purchasing one for earlier. At that point, GTA V bundles are on shelves and I save money on the purchase. Cross gen games bring people entertainment that might not want to purchase a new console.

I'm not wowed by the PS4 yet. The PS360 brought us great environments, lots of enemies on screen, and HD gaming, in my opinion. It's going to take a few years for me to see the difference in PS4 vs PS3. In other words, it's not as clear cut as you make it seem in reference to new consoles outdating older ones.

Peltz · Oct 25, 2014

BumRush · Oct 25, 2014

dead souls said:
Why would I buy an XB1 or a PS4 at this point, or really any time in the fall? The libraries are terrible and the big fall titles are either totally uninteresting to me (Sunset Overdrive) or in franchises that, while I like, are not nearly enough to induce me to buy new hardware (AC, Dragon Age).

This gen hasn't had a "that game" yet, where people can look at it and go "Oh shit, this is why I need a new console."

I completely understand why lots of people aren't upgrading yet.

What game will be that game for you, DS? I'm guessing bloodborne

Astery · Oct 25, 2014

Sorry I'm poor, and there's no games I really need on next gen consoles yet. May be bloodborne.

Yes I'm still using the ancient iphone 4 as well, sorry.

PixyJunket · Oct 25, 2014

RoboPlato said:
Currently my big worry with so many cross gen games is how prevalent they are combined with predictions of a short, 5 year gen. It's already a year in and we barely have any games made from for new hardware. With stuff like Rise of the Tomb Raider being cross gen, we're still going to be seeing them for a while and may only end up with a couple years of properly supported consoles before the new ones roll out.

The problem is that there's not a lot worth doing with that extra power (despite the claims from people trying to justify their $400/$500 purchases). So far there's the promise of more enemies on screen (was that really limited previous generation?), the laughable claim of "better AI," which has been touted every single new generation, and yet most games still have enemies with the brains of the soldiers from NES Contra, and a #GreatnessAwaits worthy system where an orc you set on fire will remember your name six hours later.

Even if that stuff is being utilized to its fullest, who is that supposed to convince to buy a new console?

Without the big graphical leap every previous generation has come with, it's going to be harder to immediately sell new consoles to an average gamer/consumer. And when they do upgrade and they're getting something that's so similar to that last purchase? Just try to convince them to buy the one after that.

It'll be interesting to watch unfold, at least.

Nerokis · Oct 25, 2014

MormaPope said:
Yeah, because PS4's exclusive lineup thus far is pushing creativity over visual quality, right?

Some of the most creative games in the past few years look minimalistic as fuck. Creativity isn't tied to hardware power, hasn't been for a long time now.

Yep. Tying creative stagnancy to being cross-gen doesn't make much sense, considering the complete absence of correlation there. Not to mention that a lot of these high budget games banking on the cross-gen audience were probably initially developed with the PS3/360 in mind, anyway, like Destiny (iirc?). I highly doubt suddenly abandoning last-gen platforms fairly late into development would have made much difference, unless they took the FFXV route (talk about games drought, then).

In general, I think cross-gen is fine. Sometimes you do wish a game was new-gen exclusive, and that wish is more realistic in some cases than others. But in an environment where games are more expensive to make but also more scalable than ever (and to add, where exclusives are less predominant), seeing a lot of cross-gen titles early on is inevitable. This means more games for both last- and new-gen owners, though, than would otherwise be the case.

The Beard · Oct 25, 2014

Astery said:
Sorry I'm poor, and there's no games I really need on next gen consoles yet. May be bloodborne.

Yes I'm still using the ancient iphone 4 as well, sorry.

iPhone 4 ? You dirty peasant !

Jk. I had an iPhone 4 up until earlier this month.

III-V · Oct 25, 2014

Corss-gen is the burden of this generation. Seems like we may have to deal with it for a few years to come.

JimboJones · Oct 25, 2014

RoboPlato said:
Currently my big worry with so many cross gen games is how prevalent they are combined with predictions of a short, 5 year gen. It's already a year in and we barely have any games made from for new hardware. With stuff like Rise of the Tomb Raider being cross gen, we're still going to be seeing them for a while and may only end up with a couple years of properly supported consoles before the new ones roll out.

Don't worry, cross gen PS4 X1/ PS5 X2 titles will mean you won't have to upgrade right away.

See You Next Wednesday · Oct 25, 2014

ShirAhava said:
Cross-gen is why my ps4 is collecting dust......Resogun and PT 4 life.....#everythingelsewascrossgen

Yup,
No need for current gen, when last gen is still kicking its ass.

rpmurphy · Oct 25, 2014

You bought the wrong console if you wanted a good library of exclusive next-gen games in 2014. Sit tight until next year.

a.wd · Oct 26, 2014

MrNyarlathotep said:
As a liberal, I have to agree with this, BUT:

Sitting there posting on a games message board about how "cheap" or "casual" his friends who work for a living are because they won't run out and buy expensive new hardware that is less than a year old is incredibly douchey and running with an undercurrent of entitlement.

I understand that, but the implication that people who are on the bottom rung of society should be penalised further (I don't know his circumstances and how he got where he is) is utterly repellent to me. Notice I didn't comment on the OP specifically, just people attacking people in the OPs position, and seeking to segment society even further.

Bytes · Oct 26, 2014

Nintendo doesn't seem to have this problem. As soon as a new console is released, it's like the last one never existed. Hell, they tend to abandon consoles before releasing their successors.

MUnited83 · Oct 26, 2014

EmeraldSwords said:
You could use your ds4 on ps3 , but it's gotta be hooked up with a charging cable in order to use it.

I believe that has been patched and it can be used wireless now.

Biker19 · Oct 26, 2014

MormaPope said:
Mid tier games disappeared on consoles because of rising budgets. AAA titles bombing is one helluva risk. Because of that power consoles will receive less non indie games this time around.

Nah, mid-tier games have disappeared because the Western gaming press, as well as Western 3rd party publishers at large were brainwashing a lot of gamers to believe that AAA games = better. A lot of gamers had stopped buying those games as a result.

Mid-tier games can still be made without the budget being too insane.

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