Mendax
Member
the city is Insomnia and the attacking party if Niflheim
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Stella has been removed from FFXV; Itamuro writing game; Demo 2 June 9; FFXV not @ E3
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
the city is Insomnia and the attacking party if Niflheim
nelsonroyale
Member
That hasn't been finalised. I hope they fecking have it in...
Yo you're all getting a little bit confused.
Versus XIII trailer: Noctis meets Stella at a party in Insomnia, Niflheim attacks. This section was confirmed canned in the ATR
E3 2013 FFXV trailer: Niflheim attacks Accordo, while Noctis is in the city. This is where the Leviathan scene took place. Although not publicly disclosed as to how close the actual game's action sequences etc. will be to the trailer, we have to assume that this scene, or at least sequence of events (Noctis being there during Niflheim attacking) has to be in the game, as it was the first marketing showing of FFXV with its rebranding.
edit: bad @ dates
Don't know yet, Nomura said so in the past that it's a road trip game and about brotherhood which still remains.
chozen
Member
That fight should still be in, that happens in accordo. Probably when we meet Luna in Altissia.
airships don't make sense, the game should have several separate zones like the demo, you want to fly over that? to do what? hit invisible walls in 10 seconds? It's clear it's a game you don't need to fly in. Maybe there are some set piece like the old trailers but that's about it...
There's something I don't get btw, isn't Luna supposed to be the daughter of the rival's faction? So why she's injured during the attack at Insomnia?
She a princess of one of the five kingdoms.
She was probably there to represent her kingdom at the peace treaty signing.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
Actually that's never been confirmed. Official statements is that they're trying to make one huge world possibly all streamed in real time with the exception of cities.
If you're referring to things like the separate Behemoth area, airships don't mean you can land anywhere. Take an airship from the SNES or PSX game. You can fly anywhere you want, but you can't land on mountains, etc.
Cordons that define explorable areas while on the ground don't apply to airships. For example, in PSX Final Fantasy terms, the Behemoth area could be a cave you enter on the world map to a separate dungeon, which the airship can see from above but can't land in.
They said there changing stuff to fit the current direction of the game.
Really vague, but if they cut the FNC stuff it could be a plus.
DarkLordMalik
Member
All of the country names are getting over my head now since we haven't seen most of the ones in the new reboot of the game =/
I mean we have seen Accordo (E3 2013) and the small city Lestallum (TGS/Jump Festa) but never saw Insomnia, Nilfheim or Altissia in the new reboot. So it is a mess to try to remember these names.
I think this has less to do with that and more with the fear that the game's original vision is basically gone and they are doing something completely new that not everybody is 100% sold on.
It's also slightly confusing, as that one circular area that's been used as showcase for combat in a lot of cases can be mentally associated with both Insomnia OR Accordo, depending on which trailer you're watching.
edit: derp, see, now you've got me mixing up the names as well.
DarkLordMalik
Member
Rest assured, I can trust in Tabata to create an emotional sequence for the death of Noctis' father. The artwork showed they will focus on it.
Once the full reboot is revealed at Gamescom, I am interested in seeing the reaction to it. What's changed and what's kept? All will be answered, hopefully.
TheGreatLugia
Banned
I thought Insomnia was the capital city of Lucis so it could just be associated with both.
It's the conundrum that is ffxv.
We wont know, at least until that book thing that usally comes out after every FF.
chozen
Member
Altissia is the Captial of Accordo, the water Italian based Kingdom
Lestallum is the smaller town based off of Havana off on the side of Duscae demo
Insomnia is the Captial of Lucis the Modern Japan based Kingdom, home of Noctis
We have not seen Niflhiem, Solhiem, or Tenebrae
What I'm saying is there is a scene in the TGS Trailer that says "Luna is in Altissia" then they cut to red sky, then Luna with a straight face and yellow glowing orbs around her similar to the ones Noctis has when he's about to summon Ramuh,
except his orbs are blue. She is sitting in the Room IN Accordo where the FFXV E3 2013 Announcement trailer starts off with Noctis jumping through the window when the Leviathans water dragons are storming the building. So all of this is connected story wise.
YankeeDonB
Member
Hmm, does anyone even really want underwater fighting? Or is it just something to complain about? I mean, aside from humpbacks and giant squids, who actually fights underwater?
You know what bothers me? Noctis doesn't morph into a were-chicken. Get on it Tabata!
They didn't say but if I had to ballpark a guess it was because they discarded original ideas that they didn't know how to work with and decided to make a new game that vaguely resembled old marketing because outright cancelling it would let the fanbase pronounce SE worse than Hitl-- Capcom.
I recognise that people are disappointed that Stella is gone, even if I had no attachment, but I don't understand some of the comments here accusing Tabata of not following the spirit of Nojima's beat sheet. The purpose of that entire section, beyond clarifying the aspects that won't be in XV any more, was to enforce the notion that the game will still follow in the same spirit. Nojima gave his blessing, recognising that some things will have to change, but only wanting to be associated with it if it's following the same intention as before.
They mentioned that these changes had to be made in order to contain the story down to one game. It seems to me that the challenge that they faced with Nojima's script was that it was part of the Fabula Nova Crystallis mythology, and undoubtedly contained fal'Cie and l'Cie and all the other nonsense that we should be glad to be liberated of, and had a story that connected with Final Fantasy XIII and Type-0 in some way. Obviously, things would have to change to facilitate that. For all we know, Stella was a l'Cie that Noctis had to face down, reversing the stakes of XIII, truly being Versus XIII. But that doesn't matter any more. We've a fresh mythology, and I'm glad of it. We'll have large swathes of Nojima's world design intact, and he's been free to work on another game. People are free to be disappointed, but it's all undoubtedly for the best.
They mentioned that these changes had to be made in order to contain the story down to one game. It seems to me that the challenge that they faced with Nojima's script was that it was part of the Fabula Nova Crystallis mythology, and undoubtedly contained fal'Cie and l'Cie and all the other nonsense that we should be glad to be liberated of, and had a story that connected with Final Fantasy XIII and Type-0 in some way. Obviously, things would have to change to facilitate that. For all we know, Stella was a l'Cie that Noctis had to face down, reversing the stakes of XIII, truly being Versus XIII. But that doesn't matter any more. We've a fresh mythology, and I'm glad of it. We'll have large swathes of Nojima's world design intact, and he's been free to work on another game. People are free to be disappointed, but it's all undoubtedly for the best.
As a big, big believer in auteurship for the video game industry this shit really bothers me. Nomura and his team deserved better than to be kicked off their own game and replaced by a team that was more interested in adapting his ideas into their own vision than delivering his to the public.
It's especially gross when considering that it was Square's fault in the first place that it didn't get done. Nomura and his team create a new IP with two of the most popular, best selling titles in company history and they reward him by funneling his magnum opus through development hell, killing his team's morale, and kicking him off his own game?
Gross. I didn't think my opinion of Square could get much lower, but they do have a way with surprising people.
I've been talking with peers and family about this game for so long. The main thing I'm praying for is a good story, with strong characterization. Looks like they're trying to cover all bases with the gameplay, which is nice. Absolutely no worries about music.
Gotta admit, that artwork of young Noct was evocative.
Nomura's perfectionist approach to Versus was a great foundation, and It's good to see the development being fast-tracked by Tabata towards the home stretch.
only SE have the desire and resources available to back up a grand, ambitious vision with suitably robust tech.
After a whole console generation's time (I bought a PS3 for it), needless to say, and I speak for possibly many thousands, I want to believe again not only in SE, not only in Final Fantasy, but in video games. That is essentially what this game means to me.
Gotta admit, that artwork of young Noct was evocative.
Nomura's perfectionist approach to Versus was a great foundation, and It's good to see the development being fast-tracked by Tabata towards the home stretch.
only SE have the desire and resources available to back up a grand, ambitious vision with suitably robust tech.
After a whole console generation's time (I bought a PS3 for it), needless to say, and I speak for possibly many thousands, I want to believe again not only in SE, not only in Final Fantasy, but in video games. That is essentially what this game means to me.
Thank you. Gaf would've teared this game a new asshole if there was any mention of l'cie, fal'cie or anything related to Xlll, but let's all be sad anyway and act like the original vision of the game wasn't probably complete shit.
That's a good point and it makes sense for them to change these things so that the game stands on its own and is not related to XIII, which was the original plan with the Versus thing at the beginning.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Honestly, if they aren't going to come out and fully explain the main differences between the script of Versus XIII and XV, which of course will fall straight into spoiler territory, they should have kept their mouth shut regarding the changes. I know that would be dishonest, but I imagine it would be better with us playing the game and judging the game by its own merits, and be pleasantly surprised that the game is actually good even if Stella is not there. Then watching the credits with different staff members than initially announced wouldn't really matter because hey, the game is still good, who cares. And on the other hand if the game is bad, then we have an answer of perhaps what went wrong.
Now? They're just leaving us hanging until Gamescom, with everyone and their mother screaming "downgrade!!" at Luna replacing Stella, a new writer that inspires very little confidence and the lack of Jun Akiyama in the development team. Seriously, why would he be kicked out of the team? Can't Square Enix recognize talent anymore? This guy directs the event scenes of FFXII and Vagrant Story for god's sake. It's a lose-lose situation. Fans become more confused and troubled by the development of the game. Company potentially losing interest and customers in their product. Why should it turn out like this?
Now? They're just leaving us hanging until Gamescom, with everyone and their mother screaming "downgrade!!" at Luna replacing Stella, a new writer that inspires very little confidence and the lack of Jun Akiyama in the development team. Seriously, why would he be kicked out of the team? Can't Square Enix recognize talent anymore? This guy directs the event scenes of FFXII and Vagrant Story for god's sake. It's a lose-lose situation. Fans become more confused and troubled by the development of the game. Company potentially losing interest and customers in their product. Why should it turn out like this?
Man, maybe I'm wrong in assuming that the die-hard fans in this thread saying stuff like this even gave a shit about Versus XIII before the rebranding. But if not then I'm genuinely baffled by the heel turn in here.
Like, lol, suddenly Versus XIII, the Versus XIII that we were all excited for, was "complete shit" in concept anyway now that it's been replaced? Did seeing Gladiolus' new six pack suddenly inspire great confidence in Tabata's vision for the game?
DarkLordMalik
Member
It was the episode duscae demo which inspired great confidence in Tabata's vision for the game.
If this is the way the game is heading (like the demo), Tabata has my full support.
He left.
TheJollyCorner
Member
I think what's deflating my interest is that the game seems very anime.
Luna I'll bet is in love with Noctis because they're childhood friends.
Cidney with all the sexy camera angles and animations caters to that fan service loving demographic as well.
lol uhhhhhhh... welcome to the past (almost) 20 years of FF, bro. You seem late to the party, but the cake is still fresh.
The company?
DarkLordMalik
Member
Hopefully he did that when Nomura was still in charge of project. Otherwise people are just gonna blame Tabata for him leaving SE, instead of the incompetence of SE during Wada's rule.
We don't know Versus XIII. All we were excited for was because the trailer looked great. We don't know the full story, we don't know who Stella was, etc.
Games can change greatly over development. FF was no exception. The case is a bit unique in Versus/XV, where the game kept being prematurely shown to public in form of only trailers. Fans wanted to know more about the development of the game. The new team opens up their progress and decisions. Now people are complaining about the changes like they know the previous one was better.
In short: We don't know if the changes are going to make the game better or not. We do know that the development team (who's actually making the game now) believed that the changes are for the better.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Are you certain of this? And if so, why? Do they not realize that FFXV is one of their biggest and most critical project ever? If fans can recognize talent, why couldn't the company? I rolled my eye so hard when Tabata said they assembled an all-star team to make the game shortly after saying the script is now written by the writer of Dissidia. Does SE really, really think Dissidia or Dissidia 012 have good script? Do they sometimes compare the script of FFXIII and FF Tactics: War of the Lions and see how drastically worse the former are?!
Then again, I'm talking about the company who has someone like Hiroyuki Ito and have him doing absolutely nothing for the past several years.
The current script writer didn't write Dissidia (but worked on sth. else), the Dissidia writer is someone else.
They probably thing their scripts are as good as the Kingdom Hearts games, huahuah.
FFXV is a new game, it's Tabata's game, so it makes perfect sense that he'd bring his own team. They're simply re-purposing some Versus scraps.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Dissidia, Dissidia 012, all the same. Itamuro IS one of the writer for 012.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Which is even worse because that means that instead of a bad track record, she has no track record at all.
You forget that it's still software and it's going to have to load more assets at a faster rate if you expect airships to be flying over the same world map you travel through on foot. Even open-world games quietly load new adjacent zones as you travel through them, how 'seamless' it feels is how well they've disguised it.
We haven't invented magic computers yet, but I like your optimism.
As to the OT we've begun so many cycles of drive-by comments that we've run out of things to talk about unless we're just going to keep telling people for the next ten or so pages that it's not the writer of Dissidia and Stella was cooler in their heads anyway.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
This is the first in a long line of mysterious changes hat will cause huge delays.
As I've said from the unveiling im pretty sure this will be re-announced in seven years as a Playstation 5 game.
As I've said from the unveiling im pretty sure this will be re-announced in seven years as a Playstation 5 game.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Errr... I'd argue 'no track record' is better than a bad one. Everyone has to start somewhere.
Alright, I guess now that the thread is sorta winding down instead of going at approximately 5 pages a minute, I'd chip in my own two cents. Without getting too far into things I shouldn't be talking about, do remember that Nomura's style during the mid/late 2000s is to make trailers or video pieces on concepts that are freaking cool, and then integrate them into the game's plot later.
In some cases, like the Secret Movies of Kingdom Hearts, it results in some exceptional scenarios and unbelievable levels of hype. If you're not aware, Another Side, Another Story, KH's secret movie was made prior to fleshing out the story of KH2, and Nojima had to write in the quotes present in the trailer after that fact*. Several key details (har har) were changed from that movie to how it was implemented in-game in KH2 and Chain of Memories, e.g. the keyblades involved. (Get it? Keyblade? Key details? Har har)
While The Gathering was obviously more fleshed out, even it had some elements changed by the time it was fleshed out into Birth By Sleep, KH2FM's secret movie, e.g. Xehanort's design.
It is entirely possible that key elements of the Versus XIII trailers might have been changed even if the project had remained as Versus XIII. While Nomura and Nojima undoubtedly would probably have weaved everything, from the party invasion to Stella and her exact characterization as it had been presented, it into their overall narrative, the existence of those scenes, as they were, were not yet indicative that an entire story had already been completely set in stone utilizing those scenes.
I think honestly, this is one of the gifts Nomura and Nojima have - being able to write in his ideas into a narrative that doesn't break under its own weight when taken in small slices e.g. Kingdom Hearts. When a slightly different set of people took the helm, the decision to find ways to include these smaller concept pieces into the overall narrative becomes a harder one, because if not done correctly it will be at the expense of the game itself, and a disservice to Nomura.
Having spoken to multiple staff members over the past year, what I can say that when they are following Nomura's original vision as much as possible, it's not simply just PR speak. They -are- doing all they can to respect the world and characters that Nomura created. Aesthetically, it's still a fantasy based on reality. Noctis still is crown prince of a family of sword summoners. The combat still is based on capitalizing on that fact. It's still an action-based open world Final Fantasy. The game still is at its core a road trip story. Nojima's plot is still largely intact.
I think the way Tabata handled this announcement was spot-on. It needed to be done sooner rather than later, especially as the marketing campaign for the game itself launches next month, and rampant speculation then would have led to a much bigger fallout than the current situation.
I will say that when I myself found out about the changes (can't say how or when, for obvious reasons), I was a little disappointed, having been someone who also followed Versus XIII (and Somnus, omg) since the start, but FFXV at this point should be judged on its own merits, based on everything that has been revealed from E3 2013 onwards, and I've definitely taken to the world, characters, and story.
Writing off the current female characters in the narrative just because they haven't been really focused on in marketing material up to this point, and just because they aren't what was shown in Versus XIII, does the plot of FFXV a disservice. That much I feel comfortable saying.
edit: bad@speeling.
In some cases, like the Secret Movies of Kingdom Hearts, it results in some exceptional scenarios and unbelievable levels of hype. If you're not aware, Another Side, Another Story, KH's secret movie was made prior to fleshing out the story of KH2, and Nojima had to write in the quotes present in the trailer after that fact*. Several key details (har har) were changed from that movie to how it was implemented in-game in KH2 and Chain of Memories, e.g. the keyblades involved. (Get it? Keyblade? Key details? Har har)
While The Gathering was obviously more fleshed out, even it had some elements changed by the time it was fleshed out into Birth By Sleep, KH2FM's secret movie, e.g. Xehanort's design.
It is entirely possible that key elements of the Versus XIII trailers might have been changed even if the project had remained as Versus XIII. While Nomura and Nojima undoubtedly would probably have weaved everything, from the party invasion to Stella and her exact characterization as it had been presented, it into their overall narrative, the existence of those scenes, as they were, were not yet indicative that an entire story had already been completely set in stone utilizing those scenes.
I think honestly, this is one of the gifts Nomura and Nojima have - being able to write in his ideas into a narrative that doesn't break under its own weight when taken in small slices e.g. Kingdom Hearts. When a slightly different set of people took the helm, the decision to find ways to include these smaller concept pieces into the overall narrative becomes a harder one, because if not done correctly it will be at the expense of the game itself, and a disservice to Nomura.
Having spoken to multiple staff members over the past year, what I can say that when they are following Nomura's original vision as much as possible, it's not simply just PR speak. They -are- doing all they can to respect the world and characters that Nomura created. Aesthetically, it's still a fantasy based on reality. Noctis still is crown prince of a family of sword summoners. The combat still is based on capitalizing on that fact. It's still an action-based open world Final Fantasy. The game still is at its core a road trip story. Nojima's plot is still largely intact.
I think the way Tabata handled this announcement was spot-on. It needed to be done sooner rather than later, especially as the marketing campaign for the game itself launches next month, and rampant speculation then would have led to a much bigger fallout than the current situation.
I will say that when I myself found out about the changes (can't say how or when, for obvious reasons), I was a little disappointed, having been someone who also followed Versus XIII (and Somnus, omg) since the start, but FFXV at this point should be judged on its own merits, based on everything that has been revealed from E3 2013 onwards, and I've definitely taken to the world, characters, and story.
Writing off the current female characters in the narrative just because they haven't been really focused on in marketing material up to this point, and just because they aren't what was shown in Versus XIII, does the plot of FFXV a disservice. That much I feel comfortable saying.
edit: bad@speeling.
People are holding on to their own imagined memories of an imagined game.
For some reason.