Inferno313
Banned
aww yeah, my l33t squad, let's go pwn the latest destiny raid and get some hot loot
just dont get ganked!
lololol rekt
just dont get ganked!
lololol rekt
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What makes people hate video game terms?
- Thread starter Spring-Loaded
- Start date
Yeah, I never understood this idea that some people have that video games can only be able fun and nothing else. I see it pop up all the time when developers try to say any kind of message with their games (usually a social progressive one), and all I can think of is the same kind of thing being said about movies or books and it sounding completely ridiculous; like somehow Transformers being mindless disposable junk food means you can't look at Citizen Kane critically.
I guess it's because the medium is so young and big publishers aren't really helping out.
I think save-scumming can also be used for really heavy use of save and reload in order to guarantee a result that was intended to be random.
Possibly this should have a different name to avoid confusion, but generally any form of repetitive exploit could be referred to as scumming in the roguelike community.
Or at least it could when I was playing, which must have been around 1999 based on what ADOM version I remember.
Sanctuary
Member
Then you may as well learn to despise when someone says graphics or aesthetics too.
I understand when a word gets appropriated in a different context, but I would never say a refinement in a game's mechanics makes my life easier. That's silly to say. I would say it makes my game experience better, which is why "user experience" is a much better term for that.
I'm sorry if you find that pedantic, but we're in a thread specifically about language. #sorrynotsorry
SeeNoWeevil
Member
It's the constant repetition that drives me nuts. The fighting game community are pretty bad for this. Some word becomes flavour of the month and it's just drilled into submission. 'Shimmy' and 'pop-off' spring to mind.
Narrative and meta shoehorned into every other sentence also drive me crazy.
Narrative and meta shoehorned into every other sentence also drive me crazy.
LegendofLex
Member
The funny thing is that "save-scum" actually is more etymologically descended from the idea of literal scum, the layer of dirt and froth on the surface of a liquid. You're continually scraping off the top layer of your most recent playthrough when you abuse saves.
AuthenticM
Member
anti-intellectualism
you can already see it in this thread
you can already see it in this thread
Probably the biggest reason is that video games are a relatively new medium and that video game criticism is still very immature. Compare that to the usage of specialized film terminology, and it's pretty apparent that it's the same kind of thing that's discussed in this thread, except that it's more widely accepted.
The one term that I have to address in particular is "versimilitude" - people complaining about the usage of this word are just dumb. Versimilitude is basically indispensible when discussing believability in games, but the bigger issue is that it's not a game specific term at all. In fact, it's probably used far more often to discuss films and other fictional media, and you'll run across it all the time if you ever read criticism.
The one term that I have to address in particular is "versimilitude" - people complaining about the usage of this word are just dumb. Versimilitude is basically indispensible when discussing believability in games, but the bigger issue is that it's not a game specific term at all. In fact, it's probably used far more often to discuss films and other fictional media, and you'll run across it all the time if you ever read criticism.
If you know what it means in the context then what's wrong? Saying "Quality of Life" when talking about, for example, skippable/pausable cutscenes, is much more succinct than saying "Quality of User Experience."
Skippable/pausable cutscenes doesn't make my life better or worse. It specifically makes my experience with the game better or worse. That's what I'm trying to drill at. You would just say "user experience", or shorten it to "UX". That's a term in use. You wouldn't add "Quality of" before it.
Again, this is being pedantic. If it makes your experience with a game, a part of our life, better or worse than why isn't it affecting your quality of life? If people know what a term means, then why arbitrarily change it?
More_Badass
Member
Basically this. There always seem to be this resistance towards games being discussed as anything more than fun or not, to actually discuss and dissect game design with codifying terminology and such in the way movies, books, and music are.
hydrophilic attack
Member
gross
Well yeah, gamers are the nit-pickiest bunch around so they're going to endlessly split hairs and complain about every term that doesn't perfectly describe what it's supposed to.
I kind of understand taking offense to "save-scumming" since it does have a negative ring to it. Although it is the de facto term for that practice so quit moaning or come up with a better one.
I kind of understand taking offense to "save-scumming" since it does have a negative ring to it. Although it is the de facto term for that practice so quit moaning or come up with a better one.
More_Badass
Member
That has more to do with the fact that game design isn't as known as say movie making or writing. People know what editing or shot-reverse shot is, or second-person versus third-person point of view in literature. Games aren't there. Does that mean discussion should be dumbed down? Imagine if that's how movie and book discussion went. Early concepts like the Kuleshov Effect shot down because people didn't know what it meant
Why say a thousand million when you can say billion?
Or a "kind of film where the tone and atmosphere is designed to evoke fear, terror, dread, and unease in the audience" instead of just horror?
Or the "art and philosophy behind filming movies" instead of cinematography?
King Tubby
Member
I hate "ludonarrative" because the word itself just sounds smarmy and pretentious. If someone said it to me in conversation I'd look at them funny.
I hate "gamefeel" for the exact opposite reason. It sounds like it was coined by someone with brain damage who can only communicate by combining simple words together.
I hate "gamefeel" for the exact opposite reason. It sounds like it was coined by someone with brain damage who can only communicate by combining simple words together.
That and there are certain terms in film (and other mediums, but I know film the most) where the same thing could be said. If I went up to someone and asked them what a "Gaffer" is or what "L and J" Cuts are they'd probably not know what the hell I'm on about. Should I say "the person responsible for electrical equipment and lighting around the set" and "cuts where the sound of the next scene comes in before the first image of said scene appears and vice versa" instead?
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Save scumming is supposed to be kind of a negative term. You're constantly reloading things so you don't lose items/know how to do that part again so you don't fail.
Obviously you're not calling the person doing it scum, but it's pretty clearly supposed to be a negative thing.
Obviously you're not calling the person doing it scum, but it's pretty clearly supposed to be a negative thing.
LordKasual
Banned
The only term i'm tired of hearing is "souls-like" or "inspired by souls".
Any game that's silent, punishing, dark, vague on details, ect = souls inspired.
terms like ludonarrative dissonance is just some shit people throw around to bash titles they don't like.
It's one of those terms where you can immediately identify the direction the discussion is about to take the very moment you hear/see the term. Come on bro, you really mean to tell me you played Uncharted and "Ludonarrative Dissonance" is the first term that came to mind to describe it? Get real lol.
Any game that's silent, punishing, dark, vague on details, ect = souls inspired.
terms like ludonarrative dissonance is just some shit people throw around to bash titles they don't like.
It's one of those terms where you can immediately identify the direction the discussion is about to take the very moment you hear/see the term. Come on bro, you really mean to tell me you played Uncharted and "Ludonarrative Dissonance" is the first term that came to mind to describe it? Get real lol.
I honestly don't see why the word narrative would get anyone riled up. It just means story, and almost every game has a story nowadays. Would you feel less annoyed if people substituted narrative for story?
It's not really specific to video games, but when words that have complex meanings are used so often, what happens is that those words become substitutions for actual, meaningful conversation.
while "ludonarrative dissonance" has a specific meaning, when someone just drops it in a discussion, it's usually in a way that tries to be self-evident. It eventually just becomes a label rather than an avenue for deeper discussion.
Same is true for music, or even news or politics.
while "ludonarrative dissonance" has a specific meaning, when someone just drops it in a discussion, it's usually in a way that tries to be self-evident. It eventually just becomes a label rather than an avenue for deeper discussion.
Same is true for music, or even news or politics.
I liked the Uncharted games yet I'd definitely describe them as having ludonarrative dissonance which, in a game focused so heavily on story, is a mark against it in my eyes. If you look at anyone who thinks a disconnect between a game's story and its gameplay can be a problem then how do you think video games can progress in that way?
More_Badass
Member
Have you not heard of portmanteaus?
As for the former, do you think the same when someone mentions "in medias res", "diegesis", or "match cut" when talking about cinematography and narrative structure?
Or when you hear "diegetic UI" when talking about game design and presentation?
What? Not at all. It's a catch-all term for discussing that specific aspect of game design. You can apply it to countless games. Uncharted ain't special
This made me laugh 10 times harder than it should have. Kudos.
FriedConsole
Banned
To me when someone is using one of these canned terms it is a signal they are just going to repeat some tired narrative that is being parroted. Usually these terms are never followed by an original thought.
More_Badass
Member
So basically a lot of resistance is an anti-intellectualism thing? Because people dislike the context used or because others abuse the terms, people just dismiss them completely instead of learning proper context and using them correctly?
I don't want to be associated with gamergaters, loser neckbeard stereotypes, and grown ass adults who actually cry tears over video game trailers!
King Tubby
Member
I'm not speaking generally, I simply have a distaste for these specific terms. They feel so inelegant.
So I'm trying to look into the claim that "savescumming" was originally meant as an insult in the rogue-like community. Google trends gave me this:
For people that are familiar with this genre, was any big game released around Fall 2005?
The term save-scumming is much older than that though. And personally I don't necessarily see hostility in just using the term, it can be easily taken as an insult ofcourse. But just like cheating is a negative term, but when you do it singleplayer it doesn't matter. Somebody can look down on you for cheating or save-scumming but they can also do it when you are playing a game on easiest difficulty. So there's really no sense in taking offense, the other person is the asshole. Save-scumming is about exploiting the save feature in non-intended ways, so it's a form of cheating imo.
FriedConsole
Banned
Not sure where you are pulling anti-intellectualism from.
The problem is that all lot of people use them incorrectly and they become meaningless. Look at the term "rouguelike". It used to mean a very specific game type bit now it so overused if you descibe a game like that I have no idea what the game is like.
More_Badass
Member
I guess one could simplify ludonarrative dissonance to "narrative disconnect" or something like that
You all speaking in riddles here. Didin't heard of 70% terms used in this thread lol.
I've stoppen at the basics like "noob", "lamer", "camper" and "gg".
- begin rant -
The only term related to video games that legitimately piss me off is HD this HD that.
What the hell does HD rumble means? And there's HD, full HD, HD ready. Mumbo jumbo.
Imagine back in the 80s overusing lets say term "Hi-Fi" like this. Hi-Fi cable, full Hi-Fi, Hi-Fi ready, Hi-Fi fridge hahah...
- end rant -
I've stoppen at the basics like "noob", "lamer", "camper" and "gg".
- begin rant -
The only term related to video games that legitimately piss me off is HD this HD that.
What the hell does HD rumble means? And there's HD, full HD, HD ready. Mumbo jumbo.
Imagine back in the 80s overusing lets say term "Hi-Fi" like this. Hi-Fi cable, full Hi-Fi, Hi-Fi ready, Hi-Fi fridge hahah...
- end rant -
Moon_frogger
Member
It doesn't really have negative connotations anymore. It's just a commonly accepted term for abusing save States.
It's no more negative then 'cheesing' or any other widely used gaming term.
More_Badass
Member
This isn't a roguelike/genre thing where the genre begins to splinter due to other influences (ie "RPG elements")
Terms like ludonarrative dissonance or gameplay loop and so on have specific definitions and refer to specific aspects of game design. Just because people abuse the terms doesn't mean they lose those definitions or become meaningless.
It just means they're using a word or term incorrectly
LordRaptor
Member
Again, dissonance is more than a disconnect; it is the friction of two opposed things clashing, not just two things not meshing.
Being told the worlds ending any minute so you better go save it, while there is no timer running and you can go fuck around griding and doing side quests indefinitely is a disconnect.
Being told you (the avatar) are remorseful for your life of crime and trying to free yourself from it while you (the player) and punching cops to death for extra ammo is dissonance.
This is what I think of when I think of save-scumming. It doesn't generally bother me, since it only really works for single player, and giving a shit about what people do in single player is not worth the time.
Moon_frogger
Member
Thissssssss. So glad the term never really caught on. Imagine a game reviewer using this term to describe a game? They'd be laughed out of the industry.
Both are valuable metrics when discussing game performance. I don't understand why they bother some people so much. I care about both, not ashamed to admit that if especialy the upper one is not up to scratch I'd rather play something else.
If these things don't bother you fine, but why does it bother you if it bothers me or someone else?
And about "save-scuming", I fail to see why someones use of save states should bother anyone. It most likely is a single player game, let people enjoy them as they wish.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Yeah, imagine if people tried to use something like "mouthfeel" when talking about food.
More_Badass
Member
hydrophilic attack
Member
Some serious revisionist history in here about save scumming, just to maintain some sense of superiority.
Do people even read what they write?
Oh, no, nothing negative at all about considering something abuse.
It's easier to avoid applying your own negative connotation here than to immediately negate your own prior sentence. You could have saved yourself two whole letters if you'd just written "using save states", but even after defending the term you immediately refer to it as abuse.
Do people even read what they write?
Oh, no, nothing negative at all about considering something abuse.
It's easier to avoid applying your own negative connotation here than to immediately negate your own prior sentence. You could have saved yourself two whole letters if you'd just written "using save states", but even after defending the term you immediately refer to it as abuse.
TylerDurden4321
Member
I like "save-scumming" and "walking simulator" among friends (or GAFfers), but I also think they shouldn't be used on an academic level or higher discourse.
Academic literature is doing so much to push for non-discrimination, for example gender-mainstreaming: Frowned upon to use words like "brotherly"(=cameradely), "landlord" (=land owner) and even "the individual is driven by his needs"(=individuals are driven by their needs).
You can't go so far and then use "save-scumming" because it's the common terminology.
Academic literature is doing so much to push for non-discrimination, for example gender-mainstreaming: Frowned upon to use words like "brotherly"(=cameradely), "landlord" (=land owner) and even "the individual is driven by his needs"(=individuals are driven by their needs).
You can't go so far and then use "save-scumming" because it's the common terminology.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
People bitching about the term ludonarrative dissonance are even more tryhard than people who use it (correctly). Yeah OK you are above the "pretentiousness" of using a word correctly, good for you. Ironically that's kind of pretentious in itself. xD
I only fly into a frothing rage at the usage of "rougelike", personally.
Yeah I don't know what those things are either. >_>
So... don't use specific lingo outside of its setting? Yeah, okay. That doesn't mean the term isn't useful when you are discussing it in a gaming enthusiast setting.
....What
Yep.
Got any better ideas then?