Inferno313
Banned
aww yeah, my l33t squad, let's go pwn the latest destiny raid and get some hot loot
just dont get ganked!
lololol rekt
just dont get ganked!
lololol rekt
Some people get upset when video games are analyzed or inspected in depth. I think it has to do with feeling that analysis goes against the nature of the fun you are supposed to have?
Granted, this doesn't apply to the specific example in the OP, but it seems to be a fairly common sentiment.
But that's not save-scumming, that's simply save reloading. Save-scumming refers to games where the temporary save is meant to be a "suspend" feature, saved on quit and deleted on reload (most common in roguelike games). Save-scumming is copying the save by means that are outside the game (file browser in a PC, for example), then restoring it if things go south. There is a reason why the term has a negative connotation: it's actually a form of cheating (giving yourself advantages outside the game design). Hence, save-scumming.
Not necessarily solely a gaming term but I am growing to despise the two terms;
Frame-rate
Latency
It seems if they were a tangible commodity they'd be oxygen or some shit. Without it - you die.
This is being incredibly pedantic. "Quality of Life" in this context doesn't refer to literal health and wellbeing, but your 'life' when playing a video-game. "Franchise", for example, means something entirely different if talked about on NeoGAF than it would be in a Business Magazine, that doesn't mean either definition is wrong.
A while back, I used the term "save-scum," referring to the practice of saving (in a game with a "save anywhere" functionality), reloading the save and repeating as needed to avoid failure in a game. The person I was talking with took offense at the term, perceiving it as elitist, and as if the people who employ that practice were "scum." What the fuck.
I understand when a word gets appropriated in a different context, but I would never say a refinement in a game's mechanics makes my life easier. That's silly to say. I would say it makes my game experience better, which is why "user experience" is a much better term for that.
I'm sorry if you find that pedantic, but we're in a thread specifically about language. #sorrynotsorry
If you know what it means in the context then what's wrong? Saying "Quality of Life" when talking about, for example, skippable/pausable cutscenes, is much more succinct than saying "Quality of User Experience."
Skippable/pausable cutscenes doesn't make my life better or worse. It specifically makes my experience with the game better or worse. That's what I'm trying to drill at. You would just say "user experience", or shorten it to "UX". That's a term in use. You wouldn't add "Quality of" before it.
Basically this. There always seem to be this resistance towards games being discussed as anything more than fun or not, to actually discuss and dissect game design with codifying terminology and such in the way movies, books, and music are.Games have been around a long, long time and I think enthusiasm and appreciation for the medium of games has done nothing but grow over time. The creation of language to better understand and communicate games is an inevitable part of the growth of the culture surrounding games, and I never feel it's completely fair to fault anyone for trying to create a language to more efficiently describe common aspects of playing or designing games, as they relate specifically to games and games alone.
It always irks me to see them dismissed under what appears to be the most common notion that they're making games seem overly intellectual or somehow degrading the positive feedback (the "fun") of games. I think they're furthering the analytical language and allowing people to appreciate them more. I don't fault a single person that just wants to experience the positive feedback, but I don't necessarily feel that it just outright permits them to meet their lack of relativity to the uses of expanded terminology with dismissal or shaming.
I'm sick of people using the temrs "gross" and "disgusting" in relation to video games and some of their practices.
That has more to do with the fact that game design isn't as known as say movie making or writing. People know what editing or shot-reverse shot is, or second-person versus third-person point of view in literature. Games aren't there. Does that mean discussion should be dumbed down? Imagine if that's how movie and book discussion went. Early concepts like the Kuleshov Effect shot down because people didn't know what it meantWell, there's one.
If you say "Ludonarrative dissonance" to virtually anybody who isn't on NeoGaf or a strong videogame enthusiast, they will have no idea what you're talking about.
That has more to do with the fact that game design isn't as known as say movie making or writing. People know what editing or shot-reverse shot is, or second-person versus third-person point of view in literature.
Narrative and meta shoehorned into every other sentence also drive me crazy.
The only term i'm tired of hearing is "souls-like" or "inspired by souls".
Any game that's silent, punishing, dark, vague on details, ect = souls inspired.
terms like ludonarrative dissonance is just some shit people throw around to bash titles they don't like.
It's one of those terms where you can immediately identify the direction the discussion is about to take the very moment you hear/see the term. Come on bro, you really mean to tell me you played Uncharted and "Ludonarrative Dissonance" is the first term that came to mind to describe it? Get real lol.
Have you not heard of portmanteaus?I hate "ludonarrative" because the word itself just sounds smarmy and pretentious. If someone said it to me in conversation I'd look at them funny.
I hate "gamefeel" for the exact opposite reason. It sounds like it was coined by someone with brain damage who can only communicate by combining simple words together.
What? Not at all. It's a catch-all term for discussing that specific aspect of game design. You can apply it to countless games. Uncharted ain't specialterms like ludonarrative dissonance is just some shit people throw around to bash titles they don't like.
you sound like you want to be an anime hacker when you use these terms, that's why!
"i simply save-scummed those pve mobs with ludonarrative dissonance, they didn't see it coming!"
So basically a lot of resistance is an anti-intellectualism thing? Because people dislike the context used or because others abuse the terms, people just dismiss them completely instead of learning proper context and using them correctly?To me when someone is using one of these canned terms it is a signal they are just going to repeat some tired narrative that is being parroted. Usually these terms are never followed by an original thought.
Video-gaming communities have a weird self-hating thing, and seem to try to distance themselves from anything related to the hobby that may be pretentious or a label.
Post a thread about "Do you call yourself a gamer?" to see this in action.
Have you not heard of portmanteaus?
As for the former, do you think the same when someone mentions "in medias res", "diegesis", or "match cut" when talking about cinematography and narrative structure?
Or when you hear "diegetic UI" when talking about game design and presentation?
So I'm trying to look into the claim that "savescumming" was originally meant as an insult in the rogue-like community. Google trends gave me this:
For people that are familiar with this genre, was any big game released around Fall 2005?
So basically a lot of resistance is an anti-intellectualism thing? Because people dislike the context used or because others abuse the terms, people just dismiss them completely instead of learning proper context and using them correctly?
I guess one could simplify ludonarrative dissonance to "narrative disconnect" or something like thatI'm not speaking generally, I simply have a distaste for these specific terms. They feel so inelegant.
It doesn't really have negative connotations anymore. It's just a commonly accepted term for abusing save States.What other possible interpretation is there?
In what way is "save scum" not a pejorative phrase? In what context is referring to a person or practice as scum or scummy not intended to be an insult?
"Save scumming" has always had negative connotations, from it's inception in the roguelike community through to its use today. It is not some neutral piece of innocent jargon like "Ludonarrative dissonance", it is a pointed insult intended to denigrate.
This isn't a roguelike/genre thing where the genre begins to splinter due to other influences (ie "RPG elements")Not sure where you are pulling anti-intellectualism from.
The problem is that all lot of people use them incorrectly and they become meaningless. Look at the term "rouguelike". It used to mean a very specific game type bit now it so overused if you descibe a game like that I have no idea what the game is like.
I guess one could simplify ludonarrative dissonance to "narrative disconnect" or something like that
But that's not save-scumming, that's simply save reloading. Save-scumming refers to games where the temporary save is meant to be a "suspend" feature, saved on quit and deleted on reload (most common in roguelike games). Save-scumming is copying the save by means that are outside the game (file browser in a PC, for example), then restoring it if things go south. There is a reason why the term has a negative connotation: it's actually a form of cheating (giving yourself advantages outside the game design). Hence, save-scumming.
But they're not, see above.
Thissssssss. So glad the term never really caught on. Imagine a game reviewer using this term to describe a game? They'd be laughed out of the industry.I hate "gamefeel" for the exact opposite reason. It sounds like it was coined by someone with brain damage who can only communicate by combining simple words together.
Not necessarily solely a gaming term but I am growing to despise the two terms;
Frame-rate
Latency
It seems if they were a tangible commodity they'd be oxygen or some shit. Without it - you die.
I don't understand why people fly into a frothing rage at the usage of metroidvania or roguelike. You know what I'm fucking talking about who cares about the semantics.
Thissssssss. So glad the term never really caught on. Imagine a game reviewer using this term to describe a game? They'd be laughed out of the industry.
They do. The word's even in the dictionaryYeah, imagine if people tried to use something like "mouthfeel" when talking about food.
They do. The word's even in the dictionary
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mouthfeel
It doesn't really have negative connotations anymore. It's just a commonly accepted term for abusing save States.
I only fly into a frothing rage at the usage of "rougelike", personally.I don't understand why people fly into a frothing rage at the usage of metroidvania or roguelike. You know what I'm fucking talking about who cares about the semantics.
Yeah I don't know what those things are either. >_>BoE
BoP
So... don't use specific lingo outside of its setting? Yeah, okay. That doesn't mean the term isn't useful when you are discussing it in a gaming enthusiast setting.If you say "Ludonarrative dissonance" to virtually anybody who isn't on NeoGaf or a strong videogame enthusiast, they will have no idea what you're talking about. If you say, "Gameplay tone doesn't match the tone of the story," then everybody will know what you're talking about. It's one thing to throw the phrase around if you're taking an academic approach to videogame criticism, but it's another if you're casually discussing gaming (like the majority of the time) and throw it out.
....WhatNot necessarily solely a gaming term but I am growing to despise the two terms;
Frame-rate
Latency
It seems if they were a tangible commodity they'd be oxygen or some shit. Without it - you die.
Yep.anti-intellectualism
you can already see it in this thread
Got any better ideas then?I hate "ludonarrative" because the word itself just sounds smarmy and pretentious. If someone said it to me in conversation I'd look at them funny.
I hate "gamefeel" for the exact opposite reason. It sounds like it was coined by someone with brain damage who can only communicate by combining simple words together.