If I was not actively looking I wouldn't send out 2-3 per week, much less 2-3 per day. There are not 2-3 jobs per day posted that make logical sense for me in my market. That's honestly a significant commitment, if you are doing it right by tailoring your resume, writing cover letters, etc. if not, there are high odds that you 2-3 resumes are never even being read by a human being.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Company You Work For Is Not Your Friend (Lifehacker)
- Thread starter entremet
- Start date
- Status
If I was not actively looking I wouldn't send out 2-3 per week, much less 2-3 per day. There are not 2-3 jobs per day posted that make logical sense for me in my market. That's honestly a significant commitment, if you are doing it right by tailoring your resume, writing cover letters, etc. if not, there are high odds that you 2-3 resumes are never even being read by a human being.
That's just needlessly antagonistic. Why burn bridges? For example, my last boss, I was pretty ambivalent about, but when he was laid off I sent his name to a recruiter with a specific lead in mind that that recruiter had called me about. He ended up getting the job. You never know when that shit will come back to bite you, or pay off... this is doubly true if you are in a small industry.
ZackieChan
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the EEOC cover most employers? They have the same protection as government employees and can go through the grievance process for sexual harassment retaliation. From their website, EEOC only doesn't cover businesses with under 20 or so employees.
What does this have to do with at-will employment as a concept?
Admiral Woofington
Member
Yeah I think it's a safer bet to find medium/big companies in your industry and apply to position for those when you get a chance. When I'm out of a job I'll apply to every single position I see on this green earth, with a job though it seems unnecessary I'd rather apply to companies with big names
Kite
Member
I take the whole "keep a job offer in your back pocket" to mean that you should always keep an eye out for job postings for your job title so you know what is out there, the requirements employers are looking for (so you can keep up to date or work on them) and how much companies are paying. I like linkedin, you can set your profile to "open candidate" so recruiters know you are open to accepting a job offer even when you are currently employed. I have gotten a few offers this way, haven't accepted any yet tho one was tempting. You seem to be a lot more desirable as a hire when you are working then when you are one of the masses of unemployed.
How do you deal with references if you are always trying to find a new job? I don't know how it is in the US but here it's impossible to get a job, at least in the same field, unless you have references from your current/former employer. I would never have it in my to ask my current boss for a reference.
I think it came from the common old-fashioned assumption from parents/elderly that you should be devoted/loyal to your company and workplace and in return they'll take good care of you by offering you stability, raises, bonuses, incentives, career advance opportunities particularly if you stay long term with them etc etc. Jumping from job to job was seen as a negative because - apparently - it shows that you can't keep a steady job and perhaps the reason you're moving jobs every few years is because you suck/got fired etc.
Thing is, this concept does not exist these days and definitely does not apply especially since the financial crisis back in 2009. You - as an employee - are expendable and only real career progression/salary raise can be achieved by moving jobs every couple of years. Employee loyalty don't mean shit anymore particularly in big companies. This is why networking and having a professional network is also a valuable asset.
So unless your dad is the CEO, you have remarkable fellatio skills or you happen to be working in a Japanese workplace (and happen to be Japanese where the working culture is different.) then yes, your company is not your friend.
family_guy
Member
Don't stay in one place too long. It can often lead to complacency. Even if you leave and then come back years later, it will be better for your career and earning potential in the long run.
entremet
Member
A good rule of thumb, if things are going fine is three years.
If you're at a place for three years and there's no room for growth or learning, start making some moves.
That should also be enough time for you to know where you stand long term.
Obviously, if the place is a bad match, bail faster. I'm talking about less clearer situations.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I've always found it weird how/why people (Especially in the US) see corporations/their jobs in general as their friend.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
ZackieChan
Member
Agreed. I also disagree with the prevailing attitude here that the employee is entitled to work, though. Seems like people think that businesses are charities run for the purpose of keeping people employed sometimes.
I recommend people read a book called The End of Jobs by Taylor Pearson, and think about starting your own business. I did it 3 years ago and I'll never go back. It's easier than ever and gives you a ton of freedom if you do it right.
BadenBadenLily
Banned
It does in theory but absolutely not in practice.
As I said before, Civil Rights legislation is completely powerless when employers can dismiss someone for any made up reason.
While the real reason you're getting canned or made redundant was because you rebuffed your boss's sexual advances, or because he doesn't like black people, but that will never be the official company line as to why they let you go. They'll just make something up.
That is absolutely not the case in government/union jobs. If you want to fire someone, you have to prove that it is actually related to performance, often times before a neutral arbitrator. That is the key difference. Management cannot retaliate like they do all the time in the private sector.
Good luck when Trump takes away IBR and your creditors come after you for that six figure law school debt.
Prosperity Evangelism. The wealthy and powerful are all benevolent people because success only happens to good people and misfortune to bad people.
ZackieChan
Member
What does that have to do with what I wrote? You're just being a dick because I disagree with you?
BadenBadenLily
Banned
Because you tout your entrepreneurial success in near every employment thread but you always conveniently leave out the massive debt burden that you have, one that by your own admission you will never be able to pay back, and the only thing that keeps you from being utterly screwed is the existence of a tenuous government program that could be eliminated at any time.
Do you even pay enough monthly through IBR to cover the interest on your loans' principal? What are you going to do in 20 years when its forgiven and you suddenly have a massive tax bomb that you have to scramble to cover for?
NintendoGal
Member
I'm doing it all wrong and work has become a bit personal and they are my friend. Guess it happens when you work directly with an owner and see everything they're trying to do to make the business succeed.
Probably not though, it's just me not valuing money but the experience and I'm sure it's going to catch up with me as I get older in the form of hardly any retirement savings.
It's silly, I know.
Probably not though, it's just me not valuing money but the experience and I'm sure it's going to catch up with me as I get older in the form of hardly any retirement savings.
It's silly, I know.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
The house of cards can come crashing down at any time. Protect yourself, keep your resume and LinkedIn updated. Why? You never know.
Reading through this thread I guess it applies mostly to countries with less rigid labor laws than (for example) Sweden where I live. Here both you and your employer have to give a three month-notice when you quit a steady full-time job. You can't get laid off just like that. Worst case scenario you have unemployment benefits until you get a new job as long as you paid your membership. I would never continually look for another job if I'm at a place I don't plan on leaving.
You really ought to look up the (very few) things that the trump campaign said about student loan repayment. His position is arguably better than Hillarys (if less fully fleshed out) since it includes 15 year forgiveness after 12.5% IBR.
Granted. Who knows what he will actually do, but there's plenty of reasons to hate him without making up fake positions for him.
privitsan02
Member
It's the same in my IT department. Got me sick, so I took a half day yesterday and staying home today. I have some flexibility to work from home though.
And I mean really sick. My fever was at 39.4c last night. I feel better today morning but can't take things for granted. Good thing the sick leaves and pretty lax in the IT department at my office.
Best wishes.
Job hopper!
Yup. This guy is a piece of work. He wants to call people disloyal. But the hour the second of the day that one of us is no longer needed by his compony, we'll be out on our asses. No, I'm perfectly loyal, to myself and my family.
By his definition I am almost a job hopper, I had 5 jobs before I was thirty.
The first of which I was fired from just before i made five years. The second I quit after six months cause my boss was insane. The third I was laid off because of budget. The fourth I quit cause they forced my boss out. I've now been at my 5th job for 2+ years.
This is the best advice yet. Don't ever be lulled into a sense of complacency. Don't ever let a company define who you are or manipulate you in any way. Stay true to yourself. I've been in the tech industry for 15 years, and I have learned that your bosses, your colleagues, and even HR do not care about you, like at all, despite what you might think. Each and every one of these entities can turn against you and either make your life hell, or take you straight to the wood shed.
You should evaluate who you are and where you're at yearly and don't be afraid to jump jobs if you need to...life's too short. Play it smart though...build resilience because you might have to stick it out for a bit until you find something better.
Ah! Sweet Sweden, proof that social democracy works!
Visited there for a month 10 years ago, would love to live there, it feels a very respectful and equal society.
All the Scandinavian countries are the same in this regard I believe
John Kowalski
Banned
I'm currently the single employee of a single business owner and things are obviously a lot more complex. We're good buddies and there's a lot of trust that goes both ways (and it helps that we're both very invested in having a quality service, so trust just happens to be required regardless). It's a much healthier place to work at than some much bigger places i've worked before where there's enormous distance between hierarchies and things have to be impersonal to work. I'm a bit young to have a full perspective on this, but it seems to me that work feels better when you get to understand and interact with all bits of it, something that's increasingly harder as a company gets bigger.
YuriLowell
Member
Lots of places combine sick and vacation into one PTO pool. This causes people to come into work sick all of the time.
sugarhigh4242
Banned
If you think this post is interesting, you should read some Marx.
This just tells me I'm too complacent in my current job.
I'm comfortable but I also hate my line of work and, well, I kinda suck in my field. I can do my job, but in my field I suck and I could never probably work elsewhere doing this work unless it's very company-specialized.
Not sure what to do, honestly.
I'm comfortable but I also hate my line of work and, well, I kinda suck in my field. I can do my job, but in my field I suck and I could never probably work elsewhere doing this work unless it's very company-specialized.
Not sure what to do, honestly.
Well, at least until a few days ago. Can you believe it? Sweden...Sweden!?!? Sad.
Yeah I never know when to quit. But that's born of experience, years spent unemployed desperately trying to find something and failing. I put everything I have into my job and hope for the best.
I'm aware of how much this is hurting me, but I still keep trying to hang on. And I'm not kidding about how bad I am for this kind of thing. Right now at my current job I was 'laid off' last year in April but they kept me on when they realized how much I do here. I've been extended 1-2 months at a time ever since. I still don't know if I'll have a job in 5 days since the deadline's coming up again. Last I heard the CEO is not going to jerk me around like this any more, my boss seems to think I'll be made permanent this time, but the fact remains that I don't know.
It would be pretty funny if by ignoring all this article's advice I will have essentially played chicken with the CEO for a year, effectively un-fired myself through sheer hard work and finally got some kind of job security. And really I love everything about this job except for the CEO fucking around, my actual boss is like Hank Scorpio levels of amazing. But yeah I'm aware of how stupid I am and how fucked up this situation is. I just don't think I could find anything better.
I'm aware of how much this is hurting me, but I still keep trying to hang on. And I'm not kidding about how bad I am for this kind of thing. Right now at my current job I was 'laid off' last year in April but they kept me on when they realized how much I do here. I've been extended 1-2 months at a time ever since. I still don't know if I'll have a job in 5 days since the deadline's coming up again. Last I heard the CEO is not going to jerk me around like this any more, my boss seems to think I'll be made permanent this time, but the fact remains that I don't know.
It would be pretty funny if by ignoring all this article's advice I will have essentially played chicken with the CEO for a year, effectively un-fired myself through sheer hard work and finally got some kind of job security. And really I love everything about this job except for the CEO fucking around, my actual boss is like Hank Scorpio levels of amazing. But yeah I'm aware of how stupid I am and how fucked up this situation is. I just don't think I could find anything better.
Yup, my job has 10 days off pool for vacations and sick days off.
Needless to say, no one takes sick days off unless they're completely physically unable to go to work.
Hickbilly Deluxe
Banned
That was my experience. The plant I work is used to be union, but we wound up suing them to get them out because they essentially threw us under the bus to get a contract with no hassle and then bailed. Thankfully a judge saw right through their bullshit and tore up the contract and told the union to hold new votes or get fucked. They never bothered coming back because they already knew the outcome.
People need to realize that unions may look like rainbows and unicorn glitter, but some of them are rotten to the core and will gladly run their own members over just to make sure the dues keep coming.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Paranoia.
Assuming you aren't living in poverty already, if you manage your money right, you shouldn't be living paycheck to paycheck, so you should have money set aside for emergencies. That's far more productive, useful, and far less stress-inducing in your day to day life, than sending out resumes every week or worse, every day.
michaelius
Banned
All the Scandinavian countries are the same in this regard I believe
It's not just Scandinavia - even in Poland after you work for few years you gain the right to 3 months long leave notice which btw is double edged sword in case of job changing since you get safety of three months salary but when you want to change work your new company also needs to wait 3 months for you - unless you can make agreement with previous one.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Sending resumes every day or looking for work every day sounds like an incredibly awful idea.. and frankly, you must have a lot of time to waste to do it if your job is secure and you enjoy it.
entremet
Member
How is it stress inducing?
You guys are too much lol. Applying online via Indeed/LinkedIn/Glassdoor is easy. I can do it from my smartphone in seconds.
I'm glad I found a not shit organization that gives us 3 weeks per year just for sick time alone.
But then they call you back and you gotta set up an interview during work hours and it's like gtfo
i work in tech. I keep my LinkedIn updated and i get requests for interviews a few times a month. Some i take, some i don't. I've worked at the same job for almost 4 years now and its a long ass time to be at a place.
ZackieChan
Member
I find it insane that a company would willingly pay workers to not work for 3 weeks, in addition to any vacation time. What industry? What country?
Sometimes I feel really bewildered at how much priority my company puts into us. It's one of the most "benevolent" successful companies. HR just keeps putting in more and more freedoms for us, our culture is very friendly and my company has often bent over backwards for my needs (I once had to leave the country in the middle of an important project to take care of my dying grandmother. We saved her life and I was gone for over a week, but my company was very empathetic, didn't even make me take vacation time, and never even asked when I would be back. They just said "take care of your family, we will take care of HR stuff when you get back."), and they pay me appropriately.
Unless I hit a pay or promotion ceiling due to politics or problems outside my control, I doubt I will ever leave my company, and I doubt my company will terminate me either (naive, yes. But I do good work and I see so many people there that have been there for decades because they enjoy it).
So while I am skilled and have a good LinkedIn and resume, hell no, I am not looking for work right now. This gig is great.
Unless I hit a pay or promotion ceiling due to politics or problems outside my control, I doubt I will ever leave my company, and I doubt my company will terminate me either (naive, yes. But I do good work and I see so many people there that have been there for decades because they enjoy it).
So while I am skilled and have a good LinkedIn and resume, hell no, I am not looking for work right now. This gig is great.
GoldenEye 007
Member
I would feel like this is better than putting pressure on a sick worker to show up, potentially putting other workers at risk - causing even more loss of productivity as whatever sickness spreads around the office.
Sick time is a basic thing that should be offered for most full-time positions. And generally policies are that time is not paid out in the event the employee leaves. An ok compromise I guess.
My upcoming employer will provide 20 vacation days a year, 10-15 paid company holidays, plus sick time at 15 days a year. That's higher education for you, though! This being the US.
ZackieChan
Member
3 weeks seems excessive. Maybe they need to figure out why people are sick all the time and for such extensive periods of time?
Edit: I suppose it could have the effect of making people think that their sick time is not scarce, and then they actually use it when they're sick. I could see that working, so maybe I'm wrong. Curious what the actual numbers are of how much people at that company take. I'd sure as fuck take as much as humanly possible.
I really like my job and my company I think, generally, is OK, but I totally co-sign on #1. HR's primary function is to protect the company from lawsuits. I really believe that. I've always found them to be an obstacle more than a support network. There are some good individuals who really care but they're all in recruiting. Once you are into the general population, yeesh. You are a number.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Generally there are some controls there for sick time. Like 3 consecutive days requiring a doctor's note or something.
I'm actually in this position now. It's not a little more pay, but it's about taking risk, building your skillset, and branching out your network. If you're comfortable at work, you've probably been doing it too long.
- Status