He has stated his feelings before. This time he decided not to use the word retarded.
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Windows 8 / RT |OT|
- Thread starter Jzero
- Start date
He has stated his feelings before. This time he decided not to use the word retarded.
Jzero
Member
Well it took for ever to get Chrome on iOS so Chrome and Firefox may come sooner or later.
Either way i think investing in a Windows 8 tablet instead of RT is a better decision so you don't run into these types of problems.
It's probably the same stance that Microsoft has for other browsers on the Windows Phone platform as well.
Until that changes, there will only be IE for RT for now since the entire Metro experience (e.g. image loading) is built using IE standards.
They budged on letting Chrome into Metro, so who knows, maybe it'll happen sooner or later.
Unrelated: Is there an actual good reason why multiple Metro apps can't simultaneously take up more than one monitor space? The current implementation is dumb as bricks, you can drag and snap a Metro app to a different monitor but the Metro "space" will then shift to that monitor, along with everything else. Hopefully this is either fixed by MS or a really simple hack.
It's not a stance on browsers in particular, the application model just doesn't allow programs to use the low-level APIs required to create a fully-functioning browser. It's possible on Android because they're more lax about what apps can and can't do, but that obviously comes with pitfalls.
Any desktop app can provide a Metro frontend, effectively bypassing the Store and the restrictions imposed by WinRT. Firefox has already done the same.
With Windows RT you can't install desktop apps and the result is that every app is limited by what's available in WinRT.
LukasTaves
Member
It's more of a security measure than short sightness.
Apps in the store can't run any code except from the code which was certified by ms. So browsers can't have their own engines (like javascript). Ms allows them to use the inner parts of IE 10 to create custom browsers (just like ios), but that is actually only a requirement in Windows RT... On windows 8 they can use the desktop version of the browser to provide a metro version for it.
That's where their complain lies, that on W8 they can use the desktop to provide their entire browser solution, while on wRT, where desktop installations are blocked they can't.
Hm, I guess one more reason to consider a full 8 solution over RT then.
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
Oh good, you can't control the volume of Metro apps. That's so progressive.
*sigh*
*sigh*
This isn't true. There is a specific application type for browsers to do this.
White papers for Windows Store apps
Chrome isn't really on iOS. iOS has similar restrictions to Windows Phone/Windows RT. Chrome on iOS is the standard Safari mobile with a new front end and some Chrome sync added on top. In fact, its javascript performance is worse.
Zombie James
Banned
ArsTechnica did a seven-page depth piece on WinRT (the API). It's very technical but goes through how Windows API's evolved over time and how WinRT works. Short version: WinRT is still a wrapper around win32 :/
Great contribution, what exactly are you referring to?
I don't get how people are invested enough in anything thats technology that they enjoy watching things fail.
Linux or Apple domlolz?
My buddy was showing me Win 8 non his HTPC. He is a guy that works exclusively with MS software.
First he needs to show my the screen with the seemingly random colored and sized boxes, not sure why that exists, but he calls it the start screen I think. Then he shows me how easy it is to switch to the desktop. Fine. I ask why the other screen exists then, he talks about tablets and phones. Great.
I ask about the store and he opens it. So this is just MS using one monopoly to maximize profit in another area? He says probably. But he is happy, he wants more apps for his Win 7/8 phone. Seems like an anti-consumer position to have, but that sums up MS.
Then he wants to demo something else, but he can't remember how to do it. After fumbling around he realizes it was just right click on the desktop. Forgot what that even did, but the fact that he is stumbling around is funny, so intuitive!
I dunno, the whole experience looked like some 3rd party skin on Win 7. Completely unnecessary. Of course it is cheap to upgrade he assures me. Well ya they want to get me into their store, which will never happen. So I'll stick with Win 7 for gaming and Linux for work. I can only hope Win 8 crashes and burns Vista style so MS can get a course correction. I don't want a tablet interface to my PC, thanks.
Steam big picture mode is all I need
Do you still think its an OS for people with mental disabilities?
windows 7 dude. You don't have to be an ardent Apple/Linux user to not like what Microsoft are doing with windows 8 I'm hoping it's enough of a disaster Microsoft rethinks this whole 'touch interface on the desktop' mindfart they've had here
Watching terrible things fail is fun you should try it!
Not worth the conversation, he thinks its an OS for people who have mental disabilities.
I am finding it somewhat interesting that many people who love Steam's grid view do not see all rectangles as equal. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/for...g-Steams-new-grid-view-zoomed-all-the-way-out
LukasTaves
Member
I read that. Amazing read.
I was a bit bummed about that too, but i can understand why they would want to play relatively safe.
One of the linked articles (right at the beginning) is greatly informative too, and has info that Ms's ultimate goal (at least at the time of the writing) is that eventually winRT grows to replace or completely remap the win32 api.
It isn't terrible ...... It's lightning quick, low resource footprint, stable and the new start menu adds something to the experience.
Multitasking is also really nice in Win 8 as well.
Brave step forward, especially when trying to unify tablet, phone, console and desktop.
It's not terrible at all though that's the thing, you should try it.
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
I agree with 3 out of the 4 things in your first sentence. The second sentence shouldn't even be an issue in a Windows release and yet here we are.
Nobody asked for this. Why do I want anything to do with Xbox on my computer? Why do I want a primarily touch interface on a desktop? Why do I want a phone UI on my desktop?
I disagree.
Like Windows 7!
Frustration
Works okay in 7 for me.
I think the confusion surrounding RT is going to be most fun to spectate. MS reps unable to properly communicate the difference, customers expecting to be able to run their favourite windows desktop apps on their new tablet. Well done microsoft.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
They've been saying and working towards this for a long time. Seeing what they've done with WinCore in the server space makes me believe they're staying true to the idea even if it's at a glacial pace. The Win32 API isn't holding back progress either as it too has evolved to incorporate new technology and more security. The ominous undertone applied to the article about MS being forced to preserve the "detritus" of past implementations is nothing more than conjecture... especially given that there's a more streamlined way of controlling the compatibilities of these apps.
Working with a team of developers now, the statement about developers being sloppy with using obsolete features rings true; we had a clean build for roughly 7 months on our current project and a young less experienced guy came onto the team and within a few weeks we were seeing compiler warnings of obsolete and deprecated methods being called. He thought it was perfectly fine because "it worked".
I have, I don't like it and I'm going to avoid it
The Elite
BOSS
I could see being pissed if you couldn't access the desktop on Windows 8.
But there is a big ass button right there that instantly loads it.
If it isn't obvious why Microsoft wants to unify their design philosophy among all their hardware and software platforms then I'm not sure what to tell you.
But there is a big ass button right there that instantly loads it.
If it isn't obvious why Microsoft wants to unify their design philosophy among all their hardware and software platforms then I'm not sure what to tell you.
That happens to me as well.
dragonelite
Member
I actually miss that that menu in win7 :'( im forced to win7 because of internship needs good drivers for amd card and laptop manufacture hasn't made a win8 driver
I actually DO want this. On my primary uses for my PC is on my TV and Windows 8 presents a view much more TV friendly. The OS is being designed to work across a greater variety of devices in more situations without losing the features that people expect from Windows.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
Saying nobody asked for this is sort of untrue. At least its something you can't prove whereas MS can prove many people wanted what they were trying to reach with their design goals. They've been fairly transparent with this information if you care to read it on the Building Windows 8 blog. I could understand if you say YOU didn't ask for this but I'd wager that you've probably never asked for any OS feature. People who study trends in technology and how people expect to use it have a better understanding of what you want and they design and release new features knowing how many may react with our aversion to change and all. Sometimes they're successful and sometimes they're not but it always takes time and it's bumpy. People will adapt but the internet has given everyone a voice; even the most belligerent of us will be heard.
The improvements over Windows 7 are real and measurable even if you say they're just like Win7. You also need to think about the evolution of the OS. Windows 7 in the twilight of its life-cycle is not the same windows 7 that launched. It's received tons of enhancements to make it what it is today so a Windows 8 OS that launches largely better or marginally better is a big improvement that will only grow over time. This doesn't even include the new technologies the OS can now support as the standardization watermark has been moved up.
The frustration is there if you choose to fight the change but most people will let go of their curmudgeon like ways once they see others enjoying themselves. There will always be a few who want to go down with the ship. That's your choice.
I think it's cool that MS is working hard to create a UI that's comfortable for touch screens, remote controls on larger, lower resolution displays, etc. That doesn't make Windows 8's changes appropriate for all users or environments. The desktop metaphor, and multitasking with application windows in formats other than a 1/4th 3/4ths split, work fantastically on my desktop where I work and play with a mouse and keyboard. As does the existing Start Menu. Call me a curmudgeon all you like, my workflow is established, comfortable, and frankly isn't improved by shunting me off into a legacy environment so MS can exert tighter control over the new interface, new software, and the "future" of the OS.
zephervack
Member
Anyone knows whats the best (cheapest) place to get it in Canada? My brother has access to a university store if that counts?
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
The design MS made doesn't shut anyone out of doing what they used to do with Windows. You call this restrictive only because you'd rather not adapt. Unless windows 7 was your first OS, there's plenty of things you could do in 7 that you couldn't do in XP and some of these things came at the price of having to do things differently than you did in XP. Granted, the start menu to start screen is a radical change that looks very different but it brings new features as well. Not wanting to use this simply because you don't want to change aspects of your workflow is stubborn to say the least. This board is full of people who have learned to be as productive with the new start screen and that's from both people who like and people who don't care for metro. MS has always evolved the OS so I find it strange that people choose to draw their line in the sand with Windows 8 when they're already accepted these changes in general technology.
To be clear, I'm not asking anyone to change their OS. Stick with what makes you happy but I will point out the opinions people are parading as facts. People are also free to hate whatever they want but they don't need me to tell them that.
NOT DIRECTED AT ANY PARTICULAR POSTERS:
Can we move on with more constructive post than Windows 8 Sux and I hope MS fails? It feels like the same argument is getting repeated with different posters. I’ve come to find lots of info on both positive and negative limiting aspects of Windows 8. Let’s discuss those and if you have genuine gripes or concerns about the OS, post them. There are many users here who are willing to offer advice and work-around. Suxs and fails offer nothing.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
If you have a spare system... install the release preview on that first and try it out. If not, you should go electronics or compute store and mess around with it. Also know that there are plenty of things you did in windows 7 that are a little different in windows 8 but for the most part, the desktop is an enhanced windows 7 and the metro portion is something totally new that you will probably get used to very quickly.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
Hmm.... is your brother a member of IEEE?
EDIT: I'm not even sure if the deal works internationally :-/
Probably not
If it works internationally, and he joins ($32 US for student to join), then he may be able to score one (maybe even two) licenses of Windows 8 Pro... after an 8-day wait ;_;
zephervack
Member
The Elite
BOSS
That's a well put together answer.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Too bad it's not terrible, just the opposite in fact.
Dreams-Visions
Member
No, it isn't. The concerns presented by other developers aren't about what it is NOW, but what it could become in the future.
Some developers see it as the beginning of a march towards a more walled garden in Windows. This guy either doesn't see that as a future possibility down the road, or isn't answering the question in that context. The question itself is no less valid because this guy isn't concerned.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
I mean we can go by fear of what MS might do in the future to Windows or by their track record of what they done with Windows throughout its history. Frankly, developers comments haven't been against what they think Windows 9 might be but what Windows 8 is which isn't closed but does compete with many of the dissenters software distribution platforms but as a consumer... I'm fine with that.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I don't disagree. I'm just pointing out the fact that he doesn't address the concerns presented by other developers in the context they have presented them in. It doesn't address their concerns at all.
It's like making an argument to people who are concerned about the effects of climate change in the future... based on what the weather has been like recently.
So you really expect that Microsoft would completely eliminate one of their biggest advantages?
If anyone were going to do it, it would have been Apple but the Mac remains open to software outside of the App Store.
Steelyuhas
Member
Yeah it's not going to happen.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Read the above comment. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=43474439&postcount=544
Go to gaming side and read some of the many articles providing commentary from developers.
Remove entirely? No. Move away from as much as possible / add much incentive to use the metro / MS Store side of things? Yes (is my opinion).
The Elite
BOSS
I think Gaben's primary concern is that a direct pipeline of games to consumers via the Microsoft store could undermine his own operation via Steam. That's a valid concern but it isn't a closed system. As long as Steam continues to deliver the best game distribution system on the planet, they can compete with Microsoft.
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