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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]

I

Imperfected

Member
Timbuktu said:
Did it ever come up whether Jon should have offered Longclaw to Lyanna Mormont?
Click to expand...

Northerners traditionally are ultra-sexist. See also: Arya talking about how Ned had to scum it out for her to get any sort of combat training, the uproar over Jon saying that the girls need to be trained for the coming war against the White Walkers, etc.
 
F

FiggyCal

Banned
Also wasn't a fan of Tyrion mentioning Dany's heir. It's like he knows his counseling is so bad, it will get Dany killed. But also I don't like that the series is building towards democracy. I think it's kind of corny.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
FiggyCal said:
Also wasn't a fan of Tyrion mentioning Dany's heir. It's like he knows his counseling will get Dany killed. But also I don't like that the series is building towards democracy. I think it's kind of corny.
Click to expand...

I think his plan was to try and get her to think about maybe not doing incredibly stupid shit and potentially getting herself killed all the time.

It did not work.
 
R

Roussow

Member
Jeremy Podeswa is a really surprising choice of director for this finale, although then again I didn't expect Alan Taylor to come back despite being pretty integral to defining the look of Game of Thrones in the early years. There's been a slew of surprising choices this year, most of all probably being Shakman who gave us some of the best action directing in the series, behind Sapochnik -- who absolutely has to return for season 8.
I'm curious, who would y'all want to see back to direct season 8?
 
D

Diancecht

Member
So, uhh, I didn't know this but apparently Beric and -I guess Jon too- isn't even alive?

GRRM:

"Right. And poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he's a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he's got all these scars, he's becoming more and more physically hideous, because he's not a living human being anymore. His heart isn't beating, his blood isn't flowing in his veins, he's a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we're getting back to the whole fire and ice thing."

http://time.com/4791258/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-interview/
 
N

nubbe

Member
Diancecht said:
So, uhh, I didn't know this but apparently Beric and -I guess Jon too- isn't even alive?

GRRM:

"Right. And poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he's a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he's got all these scars, he's becoming more and more physically hideous, because he's not a living human being anymore. His heart isn't beating, his blood isn't flowing in his veins, he's a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we're getting back to the whole fire and ice thing."

http://time.com/4791258/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-interview/
Click to expand...

No foreign invaders in Dany's desert
 
F

FiggyCal

Banned
Diancecht said:
So, uhh, I didn't know this but apparently Beric and -I guess Jon too- isn't even alive?

GRRM:

"Right. And poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he's a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he's got all these scars, he's becoming more and more physically hideous, because he's not a living human being anymore. His heart isn't beating, his blood isn't flowing in his veins, he's a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we're getting back to the whole fire and ice thing."

http://time.com/4791258/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-interview/
Click to expand...
I noticed that Jon's scars haven't really healed. It still looks like he just got stabbed. So definitely things are even more mysterious than they appear.

Edit: it feels like quite a long time has passed since he got stabbed so that they should have healed over by now. But maybe not.
 
T

The Artisan

Member
pringles said:
They've hammered home the use of dragonglass for 7 seasons now. Can't believe this is an issue. Of fucking course they brought dragonglass. Maybe they needed a scene where they go through their packing list for the expedition.
"Tormund! Did you pack the dragonglass axe??"
"Sure did Jon! Did you bring your Valyrian sword? Remember, valyrian swords can kill white walkers you cunt!"
"Thanks for reminding me, I almost forgot. Tell me again what dragonglass is good for?"
Click to expand...
My point was I don't agree with the criticism so I don't know why you chose to quote me.
pringles said:
Yeah I would have expected all the best warriors to die and the no-name mediocre soldiers to still be standing.

And lol at Thoros and Viserion being no-name. Those are two big deaths, especially considering the implications of Beric/Jon now having no-one to bring them back and the Night King getting a massive boost to his army.
Click to expand...
lol @ you overlooking the fact that I wrote most

and Thoros dying wouldn't be nearly as much of an impact as the hound, Jorah, or Tormund dying. Viserion wasn't one of the posse members. edit: as well, it was other wildlings that were with Jon's posse so they would at least be capable of fighting like Tormund did even if Tormund is the stronger.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Thoros and Viserion felt like glorified red-shirt deaths to me since those two guys haven't felt relevant for years. There were a couple of "wait, who was that?" moments when my girlfriend and I watched the last episode.
 
T

The Artisan

Member
Kenzodielocke said:
So Jon doesn't have any semen and Dany can't bear children.

Weirdly enough, both Barric and Jon are breathing.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's confirmed. And it's only implied Dany can't have children. "they say you can't have children.." they say. It's what Dany thinks, but she could be mistaken.
 
F

FiggyCal

Banned
The Artisan said:
My point was I don't agree with the criticism so I don't know why you chose to quote me.
Yeah I would have expected all the best warriors to die and the no-name mediocre soldiers to still be standing.

And lol at Thoros and Viserion being no-name. Those are two big deaths, especially considering the implications of Beric/Jon now having no-one to bring them back and the Night King getting a massive boost to his army. lol @ you overlooking the fact that I wrote most

and Thoros dying wouldn't be nearly as much of an impact as the hound, Jorah, or Tormund dying. Viserion wasn't one of the posse members.
Click to expand...

My issue is that we really never saw much of the other dragons. Not that we've never seen them, but Drogon is clearly the main focus. So the night king has a clear shot at he largest dragon. Drogon is sitting in place. It's the nearest dragon to him. And instead he kills a moving target, a smaller dragon, and one that we really haven't seen much of this season. I think this was his first appearance this season.

Thoros was a good character, but i wasn't surprised that he went. Plus Mellisandre can revive the dead also - so it's not like he's irreplaceable. Potentially, any red priest can revive the dead.

Edit: oops apologies. The formatting was off for me, so it looked like you were saying the parts you were actually quoting..
 
S

Sheroking

Member
Megalosaro said:
Beric was in season 1?
Click to expand...

The character was, but I'm fairly sure that was one of the early recasts.

The Mountain was burning villages at the behest of Tywin, as a retaliation for Catelyn taking Tyrion prisoner. Eddard ordered Beric to go after him.

He was killed off screen in a fight with the Mountain, and Thoros brought him back. They broke off and joined the Brotherhood Without Banners after that.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
Megalosaro said:
Beric was in season 1?
Click to expand...

Yes, Ned commands him to capture/kill the Mountain.

Though he had this face:

latest
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKB0ogglzGQ
 
I

Imperfected

Member
Kenzodielocke said:
So Jon doesn't have any semen and Dany can't bear children.

Weirdly enough, both Barric and Jon are breathing.
Click to expand...

Well, I mean they couldn't even convince Dany's actress to wear colored contacts, I don't think they're going to digitally remove their breath or blushing or anything intensive like that.
 
T

The Artisan

Member
FiggyCal said:
My issue is that we really never saw much of the other dragons. Not that we've never seen them, but Drogon is clearly the main focus. So the night king has a clear shot at he largest dragon. Drogon is sitting in place. It's the nearest dragon to him. And instead he kills a moving target, a smaller dragon, and one that we really haven't seen much of this season. I think this was his first appearance this season.
Click to expand...
Yeah the only dragon that's basically a "character" is Drogon. If I were to guess I'd venture to say that the reason the other dragons don't get more exposure is because of the budget.

As for Viserion going instead of Drogon, you did come up with logic for why it could've/should've been Drogon but I don't mind that it was Viserion. He was named after Dany's evil brother but as far as the dragon's killing goes I had my opinion about that whole segment
edit: and the last big issue for me was how Viserion got killed. If the Night king is superhuman enough to throw a javelin with significantly more velocity than Qyburn's scorpio then he's so OP that he doesn't even need to worry about fighting humans on his own. Even though Jon has killed multiple white walkers. What they should've shown in my opinion, was him doing something similar to what Jaime did, except come out successful from it. Charge at Viserion on his zombie horse at the edge of the frozen lake, then either jump off the zombie and throw the spear & cut to a summersault after Viserion is hit, or throw the spear on the horse. I think that would've been much better than the throw. The only thing I can see how this wouldn't work is that it would be "out of character" for the Night king to behave like that when normally he acts calmly and not rash - but, we don't really know much or anything about this character and what he's physically capable of so a charge and leap off wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility in my opinion.
Click to expand...
FiggyCal said:
Thoros was a good character, but i wasn't surprised that he went. Plus Mellisandre can revive the dead also - so it's not like he's irreplaceable. Potentially, any red priest can revive the dead.
Click to expand...
Thoros was a good character, yeah - but I enjoyed seeing him on screen more, earlier in the story. Back when he was in the....riverlands? with Arya?
 
T

The One Who Knocks

Member
Sephzilla said:
Thoros and Viserion felt like glorified red-shirt deaths to me since those two guys haven't felt relevant for years. There were a couple of "wait, who was that?" moments when my girlfriend and I watched the last episode.
Click to expand...

Thoros I can agree with, but while Viserion wasn't the most prominent dragon it certainly was a relatively large death (Drogon dying would have been much bigger, but any of the dragons dying is quite substantial) and not really as inconsequential as 'glorified red-shirt deaths' suggests. I'm quite surprised certain individuals survived (anyone not The Hound, Jon, and Jorah), and the episode had a number of very infuriating aspects such as the continuous death of random characters and near-death experiences of everyone else (especially Jon) for what was ultimately quite a stupid plan (even if it wasn't just to convince Cersei and was also to finally convince Daenerys and everyone else), but the death of Viserion is certainly a very big and important moment.

I also don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that almost everybody survived. It's not shocking for the show to kill large characters anymore or to kill them just for the sake of a shocking moment, and the show shouldn't feel the need to do that. The entire issue is that the show needs to stop putting characters in certain-death situations when they're very clearly not going to die (this mainly applies to Jon). It's more surprising that people didn't die than it would've been if anybody else actually did in my opinion.
 
R

Roussow

Member
Hot Take: The fan theories this season are all terrible, probably because most people can't (for the most part) pass off book knowledge and context as "fan theories" based exclusively on show content.
 
T

The Artisan

Member
Sheroking said:
No, because the swords lineage was father-to-son for centuries.

It would never have gone to Lyanna either way.
Click to expand...

Jon is seen breaking those traditions though. Lyanna being the Mormont in charge and power of the House, Jon respecting her and also giving females the right to fight and defend themselves - also against tradition and something Jon as King decided to enact.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
Of course it had to be Viserion.

Drogon is the one that's been developed with Dany and Rhaegal is named after Jon's father, which will tie into future plots I'm sure.
 
T

The Artisan

Member
The One Who Knocks said:
Thoros I can agree with, but while Viserion wasn't the most prominent dragon it certainly was a relatively large death (Drogon dying would have been much bigger, but any of the dragons dying is quite substantial) and not really as inconsequential as 'glorified red-shirt deaths' suggests. I'm quite surprised certain individuals survived (anyone not The Hound, Jon, and Jorah), and the episode had a number of very infuriating aspects such as the continuous death of random characters and near-death experiences of everyone else (especially Jon) for what was ultimately quite a stupid plan (even if it wasn't just to convince Cersei and was also to finally convince Daenerys and everyone else), but the death of Viserion is certainly a very big and important moment.

I also don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that almost everybody survived. It's not shocking for the show to kill large characters anymore or to kill them just for the sake of a shocking moment, and the show shouldn't feel the need to do that. The entire issue is that the show needs to stop putting characters in certain-death situations when they're very clearly not going to die (this mainly applies to Jon). It's more surprising that people didn't die than it would've been if anybody else actually did in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't think it's a bad thing that most of the characters on that journey didn't die but it came off as really convenient for the plot itself..I don't mind it
 
T

The Artisan

Member
Diancecht said:
So, uhh, I didn't know this but apparently Beric and -I guess Jon too- isn't even alive?

GRRM:

"Right. And poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he’s a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he’s got all these scars, he’s becoming more and more physically hideous, because he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating, his blood isn’t flowing in his veins, he’s a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we’re getting back to the whole fire and ice thing."

http://time.com/4791258/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-interview/
Click to expand...

it seems to be different cases for Jon and Beric. Beric says every time he's back he's a bit less, but when Jon came back it seemed to have made him stronger; fighting in the battle of the bastards, head on right on the battlefield, and now this suicide mission
 
F

FiggyCal

Banned
The Artisan said:
Yeah the only dragon that's basically a "character" is Drogon. If I were to guess I'd venture to say that the reason the other dragons don't get more exposure is because of the budget.

As for Viserion going instead of Drogon, you did come up with logic for why it could've/should've been Drogon but I don't mind that it was Viserion. He was named after Dany's evil brother but as far as the dragon's killing goes I had my opinion about that whole segment
Thoros was a good character, yeah - but I enjoyed seeing him on screen more, earlier in the story. Back when he was in the....riverlands? with Arya?
Click to expand...

Please tell me you're as disappointed as I was that the Lord of Light still hasn't given anyone aside from Beric and Thoros a sword of fire. It would've been the perfect moment for Jon to get one. :(

It's not a problem I had with the episode, but it would've been cool.
 
Vic_Viper

Vic_Viper

Member
Did they ever mention or explain the horn that Sam found in like Season 2 with the dragon glass left by the frist men on the other side of the wall?
 
T

The Artisan

Member
FiggyCal said:
Please tell me you're as disappointed as I was that the Lord of Light still hasn't given anyone aside from Beric and Thoros a sword of fire. It would've been the perfect moment for Jon to get one. :(

It's not a problem I had with the episode, but it would've been cool.
Click to expand...

heh, do we even know how the flaming blade works? does beric have to cut himself every time he lights it up? is it a specific type of sword? Jon said in this episode that he's not a believer in that religion but yeah it would for sure be cool to see Longclaw in flames.
 
N

nubbe

Member
The Artisan said:
it seems to be different cases for Jon and Beric. Beric says every time he's back he's a bit less, but when Jon came back it seemed to have made him stronger; fighting in the battle of the bastards, head on right on the battlefield, and now this suicide mission
Click to expand...

Jon is pretty hopeless all the way up to the battle and only motivated by saving his siblings.
But he is "reborn" and finds his will to live when he is almost drowned in the meat mountain during the battle.
 
LQX

LQX

Member
Great episode but man that fire sword was utterly useless. Cant send fire waves, doesn't seem to cut any better, couldn't keep them warm or even melt the ice around the rock. And the knight king apparently has great spear skills you have to wonder why he did not just throw a bunch of ice spears at them.
 
D

Dragon1893

Member
People downplaying the death of a dragon, really?
Not only is it a huge loss for Dany, but now the Night King has his own dragon (and nobody is even aware of this yet so they will be taken by surprise). This has huge implications.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
LQX said:
Great episode but man that fire sword was utterly useless. Cant send fire waves, doesn't seem to cut any better, couldn't keep them warm or even melt the ice around the rock. And the knight king apparently has great spear skills you have to wonder why he did not just throw a bunch of ice spears at them.
Click to expand...

Night.
 
S

Simplet

Member
God damn, I just saw the last episode, what a mess.

I told you guys the show was going off the rails all the way back around episode two or three of this season, but you didn't listen!!

This is Lord of The Rings: the TV series now, like it or not. Personnally I hate it but hey, I'll still watch it.
 
G

-griffy-

Banned
Hey guys, don't know if anyone noticed this, but Tywin's eyes look weird in this scene. Do you think Bran is warging into him?
yZXnnI1.jpg


For reference, here's Tywin's eyes normally:
350


Ditto for Jon Arryn in the first episode:
latest
 
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