Yeah but once you play it and realize you've been playing the same game in a different coat for twenty years, the fun starts to diminish.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ok, so now that the dust has settled, are Pokémon Sun/Moon the best Pokémon games?
- Thread starter SalvaPot
- Start date
Astral Dog
Member
No with those hideous graphics
I mean, if it takes 20 years for it to diminish, then that's pretty damn good. Anyways, Sun and Moon are the first time they've made an attempt to mix it up a little anyways, so meh, I'm fully back in.
Not really
To answer to the OP, I still think Platinum and BW2 are the superior games.
Perfected the formula, great rosters, amazing OSTs, loved the regions.
SM is good, but I think an eventual 3rd version is what I need to really enjoy this generation.
No, but they definitely make the top 4 for me. The original RBGY will always be the best for me. This post sums it up best:
Alright, I gotta step in here on all this RBY hate. RBY still stands up as one of the better Pokemon games, and one of the best GB games ever. This is not nostalgia talking, I replayed Yellow earlier this year on the VC and was constantly impressed by how well it held up. Yes wrap sucks. Yes I hate Zubat. Yes item management is a pain in the ass. Yes Psychic is crazy unbalanced. But Kanto is a very well-realized world with complex areas to explore, real secrets that the game doesn't shine a spotlight on, a diverse amount of Pokemon, excellent pacing, and is by far the LEAST LINEAR Pokemon title even today.
Show me a damn dungeon in BW and beyond anywhere as complex as this. This is a MID GAME DUNGEON.
There are over 30 trainers to fight, including your rival and a boss. You had to traverse this massive building while also solving puzzles. You had to sit, think, and backtrack if you wanted to get everything. You got a LAPRAS and a MASTER BALL for clearing this. Now that's a reward.
Other areas like Mt. Moon, Victory Road, Seafoam Islands etc. are also complex in their own way. In Seafoam, you had push blocks down several levels in order to disrupt the flow of water and surf so you can catch a legendary Pokemon. There's no puzzle even a tenth as interesting in Sun/Moon (a game I still like). RBY had real ass RPG dungeons. You got lost, you had to use a bunch of items, and when you got out you let out a desperate sigh and just prayed you could get to the Pokemon Center soon enough. YOU ENTERED ROCK TUNNEL A BOY AND LEFT A MAN.
And back to an aforementioned point: this game is the least linear. When you got the Celadon, you basically had a huge chunk of the map completely open to you. There were multiple ways to get to Fuschia City, and you can do Fuschia or Saffron first. Even if you solely followed the story, you are taken in unexpected directions, like having to go through Vermillion City lower on the map instead of the closest town.
Before someone posts that glitch sheet... ain't no one care about that. Yes the game has a ton of glitches, but unless you seek them, you will never encounter them. The game is not balanced, but it was the first game and I have no idea if Game Freak even considered the series becoming a competitive juggernaut. I mean Knights of the Round in FFVII wasn't balanced. Mewtwo is the Knights of the Round of Pokemon.
Obviously people love RBY and Kanto for nostalgia purposes, but there are some seriously ambitious design decisions in the original game that contributed to it being a success at the time and still enjoyable to this day.
This.
When Black & White came out with its fully-animated sprites, near-total removal of hated HMs, and an incredible story completely out of nowhere, I had a serious mental debate over whether it had surpassed the best games in the series - i.e., Gold & Silver (and/or the remakes), which had all the polish and double the content of any Pokemon before or since. In the end, I decided that for me it didn't quite get there, in part because I think the Gen 5 Pokemon designs are absolutely atrocious
fight me about it, lol
If Black & White was a step forward, however, Sun & Moon was a daring and beautiful leap. The transition to a fully 3D overworld was breathtaking and loads better than the half-measures we got on the DS and the ugly FF7-chibi style that was X&Y. The music, like the other 3DS Pokemon titles, is absolute fire. The removal of the gym system was rather scary to me at first, but after playing I was blown away by how it opened up a whole new world of cool challenges and environs. Ditto for the final, complete death knell of HMs; there is something to be said of removing a once series-defining system and doing it expertly (like the rise of premade dungeons in Persona, or casual mode in Fire Emblem). The new Pokemon designs are absolutely great (though I wish there were more of them), and many of the "Alola forms" were cool too. The talking Pokedex is not as weird as I thought it would be, and actually pretty cute. The return and expansion of the clothing system adds a whole new incentive to travelling around and earning coin from other trainers. The
Title Defense system
All in all, Sun and Moon are franchise-redefining entries in the series. There are a few missteps (No National Dex? Super rare SOS-only Pokemon?), but it's all really minor in the face of the heap of wonderful innovations and truly great core gameplay. It's a rebirth for me. I'm sure some people will still hold to the classics (and not for no reason, they're damned great), but Sun and Moon are my new champions.
UnnecessaryTodd
Member
Not even close. A bloated, poorly told story. The storytelling method was absolutely brain-dead and had zero respect for the player. I could barely recommend this game to a 5 year old due to how much hand holding there is, and then random spikes in difficulty with the totem Pokemon.
The Ultra Beasts had a chance to be incorporated into the story and give it weight but they were lazily relegated to the post-game. The characters are so poorly developed and the world so uninteresting and flat coupled with the amount of self-congratulatory bullcrap everyone and their mother is saying in-game about the region makes it unbearable. Yes, the game looks pretty but its hard to appreciate because the game can't stop riding its own hype for more than 30 seconds.
So many half-assed features like the PokeFinder(? the camera thing), the online plaza, Ride Pokemon...Not to mention all the obviously bad and insane decisions they're making in regards to competitive Pokemon and the metagame. And none of this is to mention the questionable new designs for new mons and Alolan variants alike.
It's a gross disappointment on a huge scale and has lost all loyalty I had for Game Freak and the Pokemon franchise.
I know this is a bit of a rant but this game burned me so badly. There's so many design things I hate about it as well, like the stupid arbitrary barriers that exist until you've beaten x person. So so so so so lazily designed.
EDIT: While we're here
II > VI > III > I > IV > V > VII
Although I never played BW2 after being so disenchanted with the originals. And I have no intention of playing another Alola game.
The Ultra Beasts had a chance to be incorporated into the story and give it weight but they were lazily relegated to the post-game. The characters are so poorly developed and the world so uninteresting and flat coupled with the amount of self-congratulatory bullcrap everyone and their mother is saying in-game about the region makes it unbearable. Yes, the game looks pretty but its hard to appreciate because the game can't stop riding its own hype for more than 30 seconds.
So many half-assed features like the PokeFinder(? the camera thing), the online plaza, Ride Pokemon...Not to mention all the obviously bad and insane decisions they're making in regards to competitive Pokemon and the metagame. And none of this is to mention the questionable new designs for new mons and Alolan variants alike.
It's a gross disappointment on a huge scale and has lost all loyalty I had for Game Freak and the Pokemon franchise.
I know this is a bit of a rant but this game burned me so badly. There's so many design things I hate about it as well, like the stupid arbitrary barriers that exist until you've beaten x person. So so so so so lazily designed.
EDIT: While we're here
II > VI > III > I > IV > V > VII
Although I never played BW2 after being so disenchanted with the originals. And I have no intention of playing another Alola game.
MaximumSpider
Banned
I've been playing since Red and Blue.
Still playing to this day.
Cipher Peon
Banned
Gen II > IV > III > VII > VI > I > V
Sun and Moon has by far the worst Pokemon designs and worst aesthetic/setting choice, but an excellent story, characters, and a really refreshing take on gameplay.
Really tremendous shame on those designs though.
Sun and Moon has by far the worst Pokemon designs and worst aesthetic/setting choice, but an excellent story, characters, and a really refreshing take on gameplay.
Really tremendous shame on those designs though.
DecoReturns
Member
Really? Lost respect for trying to change the series after the past games have been doing the same thing over and over again?
Gen V tho
Gen II, son.
I loved gen 2, but damn it had the worst starters. They are good, but not great.
Middle of the road, in my opinion. The initial play through was pretty damn good, but man is there little to do after beating it. Beyond the UB missions, it's a single route leading up to the Battle Tree. And don't get me started on the atrocious online. The PSS was perfect, just port that over. I'd put Crystal, HGSS, Emerald, Platinum, all of gen 5, and ORAS over Sun and Moon, with B2W2 being my personal favorite.
On the bright side, it gave us Kommo-o, the undisputedly best dragon ever. And Mudsdale. And Primarina. Eh, screw it, Alola had an amazing Pokédex. And Pokéride was a lifesaver. It's nice to have a full team of six, instead of four plus Bibarel and Tropius.
On the bright side, it gave us Kommo-o, the undisputedly best dragon ever. And Mudsdale. And Primarina. Eh, screw it, Alola had an amazing Pokédex. And Pokéride was a lifesaver. It's nice to have a full team of six, instead of four plus Bibarel and Tropius.
UnnecessaryTodd
Member
I changed the wording before you posted to better reflect what I meant. You are correct it was not the right thing to say.
But I don't trust them because all of the decisions they made were so poorly implemented. Change is good but poorly implemented change is worse than no change at all, which is what they've done.
Lol I knew these entries were divisive but damn.
Personally, I loved them. Best story, best characters, nice region and awesome Pokémon designs, awesome soundtrack, decent postgame content.
They aren't perfect, but no game is. Platinum, HGSS, BW and B2W2 are on the same tier.
Where can they go from this? Better storytelling without breaking the pace of the game too much but while still keeping great focus on the plot, more postgame content, and better performance. And that's perfectly reasonable
Personally, I loved them. Best story, best characters, nice region and awesome Pokémon designs, awesome soundtrack, decent postgame content.
They aren't perfect, but no game is. Platinum, HGSS, BW and B2W2 are on the same tier.
Where can they go from this? Better storytelling without breaking the pace of the game too much but while still keeping great focus on the plot, more postgame content, and better performance. And that's perfectly reasonable
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
Haven't played Pokémon in years. Will jump in on the first Switch release as long as it doesn't release on 3DS too.
Huh, why
Quintin DM
Member
Na, but I do love a lot of the new characters they introduced in it.
There's something off to me about the 3D pokemon games. Maybe just growing up used to the 2D sprites is the reason, but I always preferred the sprite styles of gens 1-4 to the kind of 3D models in the more recent games. Even if there are good quality of life improvements, I just don't enjoy them as much. The best pokemon game/gen for me would be a tie between RBY and RSE(even though 7/10 too much water).
Cipher Peon
Banned
Yeah Gen V was really bad, too.
But unlike most people, I LOVE the Vanillite line. They're so cute ^^
BUT SERIOUSLY THOUGH HOW CAN THEY RUIN THE FIRST LEGIT GOTH POKEMON UGH (I still have Mega Absol tho)
Professor Lexicovermis
Member
I'm inclined to say they were my favorites so far, but there is much room for improvement in the future.
Sun/Moon introduced some wonderful new Pokémon, including my new favorite, Mimikyu. It also had some of the most memorable villains in the series so far, Team Skull. The Totem system was a nice change to the old Gym system, but is ultimately still a bit too safe. The introduction of Ultra Beasts is fascinating, and I hope the next games explore them even further. However, the biggest problem the games suffer from is the lack of meaningful Post-Game content. The only real things available are the UB quests and the Battle Tree. The UB quests are over far too quickly, and the Battle Tree is frankly rather monotonous in my opinion. I would have preferred gaining access to an additional island's worth of content, maybe with optional Totems?
All in all, I adored Sun/Moon, but I believe GameFreak can and will improve on them next generation, and look forward to seeing them push the envelope a bit more.
Sun/Moon introduced some wonderful new Pokémon, including my new favorite, Mimikyu. It also had some of the most memorable villains in the series so far, Team Skull. The Totem system was a nice change to the old Gym system, but is ultimately still a bit too safe. The introduction of Ultra Beasts is fascinating, and I hope the next games explore them even further. However, the biggest problem the games suffer from is the lack of meaningful Post-Game content. The only real things available are the UB quests and the Battle Tree. The UB quests are over far too quickly, and the Battle Tree is frankly rather monotonous in my opinion. I would have preferred gaining access to an additional island's worth of content, maybe with optional Totems?
All in all, I adored Sun/Moon, but I believe GameFreak can and will improve on them next generation, and look forward to seeing them push the envelope a bit more.
MikeBreezy92
Member
No 2nd Gen Remakes fix Kanto and add enough features for a legit whole Pokemon game.
Saucestin_Roast
Member
I had a great time with Sun and Moon and really hope the Stars rumor is true (back to Kanto baby, BELIEVE).
But with that said, the crown remains on HG/SS for me still.
But with that said, the crown remains on HG/SS for me still.
Bruh...no one wanted to fight 30 trainers and get frustrated teleporting up and down eight floors for a fkn Lapras. Master balls are also a very overrated commodity in these games.
If we really get to go back to Kanto in a hypothetical sequel, it'll be hype as fuck lol
UnnecessaryTodd
Member
I agree to an extent. I kind of feel similarly with Fire Emblem as well, it's a lot easier to impart action and flavor into a still or slightly animated sprite than it is to 3D models. Some of the sprite poses are iconic and interesting, but the regular standing poses in 3D are lackluster. It also doesn't help that some of the colouring is way off e.g Blastoise should be a way deeper colour of blue but the lighting messes with it.
Second gen is still the best in the time and place it came out.
What. The. Fuck?
You have the best starter ever in Totodile, along with Chikorita and Cyndaquil who are top-tier too.
What. The. Fuck?
You have the best starter ever in Totodile, along with Chikorita and Cyndaquil who are top-tier too.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
It's the best so far in my book. I loved it's tropical vibe and atmosphere, and really enjoyed the dialogue and characters.
There was nothing extraordinary about it, but it was just so nice.
There was nothing extraordinary about it, but it was just so nice.
xochipiltontli
Member
Not at all. Sun and Moon's new Pokemon were even worse than X/Y's (in my opinion) and the story and cutscenes were extremely intrusive. I dreaded getting to the next checkpoint on the map and having to see Hau and Nebbie again. It was especially bad in the beginning, where the handholding was unbearable (considered returning the game before it finally cooled down). It had nicer graphics than X/Y going for it but it didn't really matter when the world itself was really boring to go through. The menu system was also a downgrade from X/Y, the post game embarrassing, and z-moves very uninteresting.
The totem Pokemon were interesting though and some of them were surprisingly somewhat challenging, which was nice. Even though I thought the story was garbage, I'm glad that it went back to a more sci-fi type of narrative than the super dramatic mythological ones seen in the recent gens before it.
I'd actually really love to see Game Freak do something new and fresh like give the player significantly more freedom to go about their adventure. Allow for any gym to be done in any order. Deemphasize a main story because it's not like Sun and Moon's was good. Pull another B/W and design a load of new Pokemon and don't show off every single one in pre-release trailers. Make the world fun to explore, add little side quests or something.
Wow I really love this post and this is coming from someone who loves gen 2 the most.
The totem Pokemon were interesting though and some of them were surprisingly somewhat challenging, which was nice. Even though I thought the story was garbage, I'm glad that it went back to a more sci-fi type of narrative than the super dramatic mythological ones seen in the recent gens before it.
I'd actually really love to see Game Freak do something new and fresh like give the player significantly more freedom to go about their adventure. Allow for any gym to be done in any order. Deemphasize a main story because it's not like Sun and Moon's was good. Pull another B/W and design a load of new Pokemon and don't show off every single one in pre-release trailers. Make the world fun to explore, add little side quests or something.
Wow I really love this post and this is coming from someone who loves gen 2 the most.
AzureFlame
Member
the game is not good imo
-Small and uninteresting landmarks
- meaningless cutscenes and dialogue that interrupts your adventure alot .
-Generic cities and towns music, none are memorable for me, the ost in general is lacking, only few great songs.
- the story directing feels like it's been done by a 7 years old kid, hopefully they go back to BW style in the future or they should not focus on story, because this is embarrassing.
- extremely easy diffculty
- post game content is boring
- i hated the Z-moves
-Small and uninteresting landmarks
- meaningless cutscenes and dialogue that interrupts your adventure alot .
-Generic cities and towns music, none are memorable for me, the ost in general is lacking, only few great songs.
- the story directing feels like it's been done by a 7 years old kid, hopefully they go back to BW style in the future or they should not focus on story, because this is embarrassing.
- extremely easy diffculty
- post game content is boring
- i hated the Z-moves
Apoleptica
Banned
Sun and Moon are probably my least favorite. Too much hand holding, way too linear with too many blocks everywhere I felt like I never explored anything, and the constant cutscenes and dialogue became aggravating. The camera was also so zoomed in compared to the other pokemon games you barely see anything.
Riposte
Member
BW2 should be blowing this thread up. It's a whole tier above any of the good Pokemon games. Campaign, region, post-game, unique features, aesthetics, variety, etc. - it's strong on all fronts. Going by Gamefreak's comments, of the effort not being worth it for most players, it will be the last Pokemon with an outstanding post-game.
HGSS inherits problems from the deeply flawed Gen 2 games. Johto is a weak region overall and the return to Kanto is a complete mess.
That said, I haven't played Sun/Moon personally, so I can't really comment on the OP's question.
HGSS inherits problems from the deeply flawed Gen 2 games. Johto is a weak region overall and the return to Kanto is a complete mess.
That said, I haven't played Sun/Moon personally, so I can't really comment on the OP's question.
You didn't have to fight 30 trainers for lapras. The entire silph Co section had a ton of items you could search for. Getting frustrated at the teleporting is what made it challenging. It was hard. It seems you prefer the boring hand holding of the modern games.
ShironRedshift
Member
Eh, that's really hard for me to say--I really liked them, but I don't think I'm able to go that far. Like, just limiting it to the 3DS entries for a moment, I definitely appreciate how Sun and Moon tried to mix things up a bit from the usual formula and made decisions such as ditching HMs. That was very nice to see, and I also enjoyed the plot and most of the characters of the game. Team Skull and Guzma are particular highlights, with Team Skull probably being my favorite evil team yet: they're just hilarious through and through and I love them. xD
However, that said, stuff like the Festival Plaza was a huge miss for me. In addition, losing features from the previous 3DS entries such as the PSS and it's functionality making so many of X/Y and ORAS's online features available right from the touch screen very quickly and intuitively really hurt. Similarly, the addition of trainer-models being visible in battle is kind of cool but it sucks that it seems to have come at the cost of features such as Horde Battles and Triple/Rotation Battles. I really wish that weren't the case. But more significantly, perhaps this is just me, but online battles seem a lot slower (as in, the time it takes to connect to an opponent and the time it takes for a battle to actually start once an opponent is found) in Sun and Moon compared to ORAS, so that's really irritating.
So because of all that, despite Sun and Moon having a lot of cool improvements and changes, I nonetheless can't really call them even the best of the 3DS Pokemon games.
Expanding the discussion beyond the 3DS games to the series at large, I definitely in no way would be able to call them the best. Entries such as Pokemon Black 2/White 2 completely blow them away for me. Sun and Moon have a relatively light post-game. BW2 just completely blow Sun and Moon away in terms of stuff like side and post-game content, and it was content I really enjoyed such as the Pokemon World Tournament and PokeStar Studios. In addition, Sun and Moon's Pokedex is alright, but BW2 has one of the best selection of Pokemon to date for me, combining the awesome new Pokemon introduced in BW (Gen 5 has a lot of my favorite Pokemon ever: Litwick and Chandelure, Reuniclus, Whimsicott, Excadrill, Sandile, Archen, Cinccino, Swoobat, Joltik, Rufflet/Braviary, etc,) with a lot of old favorites as well. It's just an all-around awesome package, and despite Sun and Moon definitely being good games, they weren't able to reach those heights for me.
So nah. Sun and Moon are great, very fun games with some interesting new ideas and have a wonderful sense of personality, but I definitely don't think they're the best in the series by any means.
However, that said, stuff like the Festival Plaza was a huge miss for me. In addition, losing features from the previous 3DS entries such as the PSS and it's functionality making so many of X/Y and ORAS's online features available right from the touch screen very quickly and intuitively really hurt. Similarly, the addition of trainer-models being visible in battle is kind of cool but it sucks that it seems to have come at the cost of features such as Horde Battles and Triple/Rotation Battles. I really wish that weren't the case. But more significantly, perhaps this is just me, but online battles seem a lot slower (as in, the time it takes to connect to an opponent and the time it takes for a battle to actually start once an opponent is found) in Sun and Moon compared to ORAS, so that's really irritating.
So because of all that, despite Sun and Moon having a lot of cool improvements and changes, I nonetheless can't really call them even the best of the 3DS Pokemon games.
Expanding the discussion beyond the 3DS games to the series at large, I definitely in no way would be able to call them the best. Entries such as Pokemon Black 2/White 2 completely blow them away for me. Sun and Moon have a relatively light post-game. BW2 just completely blow Sun and Moon away in terms of stuff like side and post-game content, and it was content I really enjoyed such as the Pokemon World Tournament and PokeStar Studios. In addition, Sun and Moon's Pokedex is alright, but BW2 has one of the best selection of Pokemon to date for me, combining the awesome new Pokemon introduced in BW (Gen 5 has a lot of my favorite Pokemon ever: Litwick and Chandelure, Reuniclus, Whimsicott, Excadrill, Sandile, Archen, Cinccino, Swoobat, Joltik, Rufflet/Braviary, etc,) with a lot of old favorites as well. It's just an all-around awesome package, and despite Sun and Moon definitely being good games, they weren't able to reach those heights for me.
So nah. Sun and Moon are great, very fun games with some interesting new ideas and have a wonderful sense of personality, but I definitely don't think they're the best in the series by any means.
neurosisxeno
Member
One and Done.
Totodile is the best one of the three for sure, but Chikorita gets bigger and a collar, and cyndaquil gets bigger and angrier. They are pretty good, but I feel they are the weaker of all gens.
Starters:
IV > I > III > VII > VI > V > II
But again, I don't dislike any of them.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Depends on what you are looking for in a Pokemon game.
As someone who primarily loves online battling and trading, X and Y remain the crown champions.
As someone who primarily loves online battling and trading, X and Y remain the crown champions.
MaximumSpider
Banned
It also helps that instead of removing features like they do now they ADDED new things in.
If Masuda returns to direct Gen VIII....
ForkNetwork
Banned
Firered and Leafgreen are still kings for me. Take the open world exploration of R/B/Y and make every mechanic not shit, its a recipe for success. I also love the seven island and the post-game that those add.
ShironRedshift
Member
The one thing I can knock BW2 is locking the awesome Route 10 music from the previous games to a particular NPC's house in a particular season. Still great that they managed to get it in there at all, but it deserves better than that! But yeah, in all seriousness, I agree. The fact that something so minor like that is one of my few complaints about the games really shows just how much I enjoyed them! xD
True, I've started caring less and less about the competitive aspect of Pokemon since Gen 5 ended.
Similar threads
- Poll