DontBeThatGuy
Member
If you lie down with dogs...
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"All Trump Voters Are Nazi Scum" (But Seriously Though...)
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sturgboski
Member
A message of bullshit and failure? I mean how many failed businesses does he have? Fuck, he read a casino and went bankrupt. And he had already cowed on most of his trade related comments. And he didn't really say anything about the middle class outside of massive tax cuts which would​ favor the wealthy oh and coal jobs which are never ever ever coming back. So basically a Trump voter was willfully ignorant OR racist, xenophobic, etc. Or a combination of all of that.
Lord Frieza
Member
I think we can all come together and say that, no, they're probably not all Nazis. But they are all probably Clayton Bigsbys in one form or another
The erasure of poor minorities from the entire conversation concerning the so-called economic divide has been especially heinous as well. "Real Americans" only count as poor white people who voted for Trump "out of necessity." Poor blacks, poor Hispanics, poor Asians who voted overwhelmingly for Hillary? Fuck 'em. They're lazily mooching off of welfare anyway so they're fine.
Shadow Puppetry
Member
Here, here. I'm Latino and get crap from Trump supporters like asking if I was born here or if I came here illegally. It's irritating but fun making look like ignorant morons on Facebook.
Funyarinpa
Member
This is where I stand (except family part). Not all Trump voters voted for his bigotry. Some honestly, almost benignly believe his lies. They're just morons, but there's difference between being a moron and being Nazi scum.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I never suggested there were more than two options. I suggested there were two, just like you did. Most in this thread suggested there was just the one, and that was all I was arguing.
Trump voters are some mixture of idiots and racists. Some are one or the other, plenty are both. Not all are both.
Current Trump supporters should be literally culled from the earth.
CountAntonius
Member
A lot people don't care about social issues and equality especially if it doesn't affect their lives. call them what you want it really doesn't matter. You are invisible to them anyway.
Lord Frieza
Member
Bruh, just walk off the hill, don't die up there
hey_monkey
Banned
First, yeah, actually, it does mean being okay with that. You choose the person who is openly racist and misogynist at every turn, it absolutely means acceptance of those qualities. No getting around it. Second, it means accepting that behavior in return for... what? What, exactly? What did he campaign on that wasn't terrible? Locking Hillary Clinton up? Building a wall? Getting rid of Obamacare? Banning Muslims? Even his trade deal promises were rooted in xenophobia (and fantasy land; there's no bringing back those manufacturing jobs now). Tax reform? Also rooted in bigotry, because it always comes with a reduction in essential services to support those who need it most - and that discourse is usually tied to bullshit nonsense like drug testing people on public assistance, which is an abysmal failure every time it's tried.
eta: let's not forget that anti-abortion rhetoric is also tied to bigotry and entitlement, as much as folks like to pretend - and even believe - that it's religion. Religious excuses are a convenient way to not think about how denial of essential health services for women, including abortion, helps keep the poor down.
The dude is doing the bigoted racist actions he promised. THATS WHAT HIS CAMPAIGN WAS ALL ABOUT. You don't get to vote for someone saying exactly what they will do, still vote for them and wash your fucking hands off it. If you voted for Trump this was the fucking shit you approved.
funkystudent
Member
European so the closet thing we got is the rise to anti EU movement in recent months which I think is just about as short sighted and dumb as voting Trump.
While I totally see people in that group who are straight up racist I also see people who just feel like the system has abandoned them and see it as "what has this ever dont for me" if not "it is actively screwing me over".
The rise of casual support of these previously extreme views is more complex then simply closet racism. I think a large part is people dont have the right training / education or older people who dont have the opportunity to retrain after their business got ravaged by the crash and feel trapped now.
And yeah. Of course there is a bunch of racist people there too. And old well off retired people wanting to go back to "the good ol days" or just stupid young people who dont understand how the world works.
While I totally see people in that group who are straight up racist I also see people who just feel like the system has abandoned them and see it as "what has this ever dont for me" if not "it is actively screwing me over".
The rise of casual support of these previously extreme views is more complex then simply closet racism. I think a large part is people dont have the right training / education or older people who dont have the opportunity to retrain after their business got ravaged by the crash and feel trapped now.
And yeah. Of course there is a bunch of racist people there too. And old well off retired people wanting to go back to "the good ol days" or just stupid young people who dont understand how the world works.
SkeptiMism
Member
Were the news of the drone strikes really so hidden when they happened during his first term?
But regardless, at least you knew. And that's ok. You knew he was gonna do some nasty things but you made your peace with it because ultimately Obama was clearly the best choice. I'm not saying it's equivalent to the shit Trump pulled. They are really different things. I mainly just responded to the part in that post in which the person said that you couldn't see it coming.
No disagreement there whatsoever.
Question for some saying they're not racist:
If I come up to someone on the street and say I'll give them $100 but then I'll spend the rest of the day punching every black and hispanic American that passes by that street right in the face.
Isn't taking the money an inherently racist act if you know the consequences? Can they really defend themselves and say they just wanted money?
If I come up to someone on the street and say I'll give them $100 but then I'll spend the rest of the day punching every black and hispanic American that passes by that street right in the face.
Isn't taking the money an inherently racist act if you know the consequences? Can they really defend themselves and say they just wanted money?
I have an hard time selling on any candidate in the US, your system of extreme right and right is crazy, but I would imagine you had plenty of people that believed in the draining the swamp, and the bring the jobs back, and the improve the economy and all that bullshit, obviously I never thought he was going to do any of that, the men can't even run a business let alone an entire country, different people have different priorities, some people will prioritize privacy, others will prioritize financial wealth, others will prioritize gay rights, others transgender rights, others a stronger military, and they might have elected trump primarily for those reasons, and they might have found those reasons more important than what the negatives they thought Trump brought to the table.
I did, I believe that you should in fact try to inform and debate the issue with people to try and change their minds instead of calling them nazi racist scum, a well informed population is key to any good democracy.
Now do I think a lot of people will change their minds quickly, easily or at all by having people debate them on things? Not really, but it sure is far more likely to happen than name calling someone.
That was sarcasm, one of the reason why Germany doesn't really entertain notions of good old days is because they are educated on how absurd Nazi Germany was.
JordanN
Banned
It only takes one second to understand why Trump is wrong.
What does Make America Great Again mean? What could have happened in the last 50 years that America suddenly needs "saving" and Trump is the only one to do it?
Trump voters have no excuse. If you're capable of thinking, you're capable of seeing the blatant racism that MAGA can only mean.
yanipheonu
Member
I hate the "If you're not with me, you're against me" mentality some people use for politics.
I refuse to play that game.
Reality is rarely as simple as good guys and bad guys.
I refuse to play that game.
Reality is rarely as simple as good guys and bad guys.
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
Honestly while I do think a good number of Trump voters are motivated by racism and other horrible ideas, I seriously think that the American populace, overall, is just pretty stupid and selfish. Trump had historically shown himself to be incompetent, and as president he's managed to do worse than my lowest expectations. He's hot-tempered, petulant, childish, clueless, racist, sexist, willfully ignorant, impatient, thin-skinned, and refuses to take responsibility for anything bad that he's caused. Even for those who are racist, bigoted, etc., I can't actually believe that they thought Trump would be successful in actually implementing his haphazardly horrible rhetoric.
I do agree just insulting Trump voters does nothing good. The reality is that when voting for candidates, you're really just choosing who you think is the candidate who best represents your interests. The fact that Trump, who just seems like a despicable human being in every regard, managed to get 60M+ votes against a highly-qualified, yet vilified candidate such as Hillary, still astonishes me. Because in a lot of ways, I believe that Trump actually violates tons of conservative principles as well (religious folks should abhor him, fiscal conservatives should hate his extravagant living expenses, etc.). However, I do think part of it has to do with party, and how some folks are so stuck in voting Republican / Democrat these days as opposed to truly being fluid and weighing the options in front of them and voting.
I do think that Trump voters do deserve whatever comes to this country from the Trump administration. Especially those who rely on the programs and policies that he now decides to threaten or kill. I hope they learn from it.
I do agree just insulting Trump voters does nothing good. The reality is that when voting for candidates, you're really just choosing who you think is the candidate who best represents your interests. The fact that Trump, who just seems like a despicable human being in every regard, managed to get 60M+ votes against a highly-qualified, yet vilified candidate such as Hillary, still astonishes me. Because in a lot of ways, I believe that Trump actually violates tons of conservative principles as well (religious folks should abhor him, fiscal conservatives should hate his extravagant living expenses, etc.). However, I do think part of it has to do with party, and how some folks are so stuck in voting Republican / Democrat these days as opposed to truly being fluid and weighing the options in front of them and voting.
I do think that Trump voters do deserve whatever comes to this country from the Trump administration. Especially those who rely on the programs and policies that he now decides to threaten or kill. I hope they learn from it.
Lies, it happened when a brave soul challenged Hitler to a televised debate and asked armor piercing questions like why he thinks some people are sub-human, mocked his stupid reasons, and showed people he was a fool.
Uhm, that gotta be BS. Which country you from because from my porcelain throne I see every damn country having at least one political party that is a straight out racist/nazi platform.
Did you miss the whole "losing World War 2 and being occupied by and divided among the victors" part?
Obama actually campaigned on well-detailed policy proposals--that's what Obama voters were supporting when casting their vote, in addition to trusting him to make the best decision wrt things he did not specifically campaign on. The opposite is true with trump and his voters: trump campaigned on no specific policy proposals, but rather campaigned on the idea that he was the only one who had the ability to fix every ill in the world--I guess because he wasn't politically correct?--without actually going into any specifics re how he would solve these ills. So a trump voter only has his personality that they were supporting, the objectively, transparently, racist & misogynistic personality. This is one major reason why the drone issue is more or less a red herring (although to a certain extent all Americans share culpability for our military actions, especially when there's no major candidate who is explicitly anti-drone-strike).
"economically anxious"
Lord Frieza
Member
You have a hard time doing it because it's fucking impossible to do
Christ, we went through a World War to transform Nazi Germany into Modern Germany. You cannot be serious with this.
Man, I really don't buy there was anything in that post that was sarcasm.
World Debate II, the loud'un
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Nationalism propped up with lies is another reason he won.
thehypocrite
Member
You are right, they aren't Nazi scum. They are still not the kind of people that I would call good, for their inability to give a shit about those in worst situations than them.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Sure but reality dictates that actions have consequences and contemporary actions by incompetent-in-chief are affecting the lives of minorities, women, and LGTBQ communities. Sorry if my priorities are dedicated to helping out these disenfranchised peoples rather than wanting to play ball with some ignorant dumbass.
Cool you consider yourself above basic human rights and decency. So woke.
Lord Frieza
Member
Nationalism is just a another shade of racism, really.
Rarely the keyword. In this case, though, it's about as black and white as politics can possibly get I would say.
Yoshimitsu126
Member
I refused to play that game too. But now?
Hell no.
I'm not going to sugar coat what is wrong with the US administration and anyone who disagrees with them should not, too. Should we be violent? Of course not. But now is not the time to be compliant. Now is the time to stand up for democracy and for a higher standard in morality for the people of the United States.
Not particularly. I didn't vote for Obama (wasn't 18), but knowing he had supported drone strikes, I still would've voted for him because not only did I support drone strikes in some circumstances, as better than a ground assault, but Romney would've been even worse in that regard. You take all of your candidates policies and actions, good and bad. That's just the reality of the world. Luckily one party cares about people and the planet, while the other doesn't. Makes my choice damn easy.
If Trump's biggest problem was calling Mexican's rapists (a far worse statement than Hillary's) 20 years ago, then apologizing for it, I don't think we would be having this argument. C'mon, false equivalencies abound.
I don't like that statement, or her support of the crime bill, or many of her other policies, but I'll still vote for her. I objectively support all of her current policies based on my vote (whether I like them or not), but can reflect on the fact that people change in 20 years.
It rarely is, but in this presidential election is absolutely fucking was. The choice was if you're not with me, you're voting for a racist, incompetent piece of shit. Sorry, but that's what happened.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Agreed.
Doominated
Member
Just to the "homely grandmother" point, one of my landlords is the "homely grandmother" types. She cooks food for me sometimes, she's very nice, she's always there to offer advice. She's also vocally racist toward anybody who's black or brown. She avoids looking at them in public. She acts like having tattoos or wearing "certain clothes" immediately makes somebody a thug.
I'm white, so she's nice to me. She openly has acknowledged to me she probably wouldn't be as nice if I wasn't, and went as far as to say I'd probably be a different kind of person if I wasn't.
It's one example, I'm not saying it's always the case, but it also doesn't mean someone CANT be a nazi/racist just because they seem nice.
I'm white, so she's nice to me. She openly has acknowledged to me she probably wouldn't be as nice if I wasn't, and went as far as to say I'd probably be a different kind of person if I wasn't.
It's one example, I'm not saying it's always the case, but it also doesn't mean someone CANT be a nazi/racist just because they seem nice.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Racism is racism, the spectrum of it doesn't matter unless we're in the bottom 1%-ish of behavior that doesn't hurt anybody. The point wasn't to focus on the candidates' racism but rather people's reaction to them. How many Clinton voters self-reflected on Clinton's faults, and how many of those people who didn't do that are expecting Trump voters to somehow be better thinkers and moralists than them? I think there's room for growth from everyone here.
This is not one of those times. Trump was beyond explicit with his racism and misogyny; he didn't dog whistle it, he blared it from a megaphone. If you voted for him you either supported it or didn't care, there's not a third option here.
Lord Frieza
Member
ClosingADoor
Member
They are responsible for their vote and what that represents. Does that make them a direct nazi? No. But they helped get actual nazi's in the White House.
On a personal level, I am all for calling people out for it. If someone is standing there and advocating for the Trump agenda, by all means call them whatever you want. They do the same.
On a national level however, just going "these are all nazi's, so fuck them" is not a solution, since these people can vote and influence the country themselves. So something needs to be done to fix their perceived issues. These are things like people being left behind due to a changing economy and growing income inequality.
Problem then is, that those some people vote against their own interest there a lot of times, so it is kind of hard to fix that if the people they vote for in their region have zero interest in fixing their actual problems.
On a personal level, I am all for calling people out for it. If someone is standing there and advocating for the Trump agenda, by all means call them whatever you want. They do the same.
On a national level however, just going "these are all nazi's, so fuck them" is not a solution, since these people can vote and influence the country themselves. So something needs to be done to fix their perceived issues. These are things like people being left behind due to a changing economy and growing income inequality.
Problem then is, that those some people vote against their own interest there a lot of times, so it is kind of hard to fix that if the people they vote for in their region have zero interest in fixing their actual problems.
hey_monkey
Banned
With all the back-and-forth on Hillary in particular amongst libs, I think there was quite a lot of reflection on many points.
American politicians are pretty terrible in general. There are few exceptions and probably even the people I'd think of as exceptions have serious issues.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Like at some point the idea that all of America is racist because it was founded and sustained as a racist country for its entire lifetime is going to show up in these console war-style debates. Pointing fingers at Trump voters is silly with the perspective of the history and breadth of racism here. We're all complicit.
Racism is racism, but let's not pretend there aren't tiers to this shit. Hillary's statement was absolutely diet racism, still harmful but nothing compared to Trump continually demeaning Hispanics, blacks, and Muslims thoughout his campaign. Trump, unlike other candidates in the past, didn't even try to be discrete. He just went full racist as if it wasn't a big deal at all. So you can be damn sure I'll look down on Trump voters for not reflecting on that shit more than Clinton, or Romney, or McCain, or Obama, or whomever. The difference is huge.
Lord Frieza
Member
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
"C'mon man, I don't hate Jews! Hitler promised he'd conserve Germany's forests. Don't lump me in with supporting the Holocaust."
FinalStageBoss
Banned
Call 'em whatever you want they're all trash.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I think there are millions of families who would have a word to say about you saying Clintons' push of their crime bill resulted in "nothing" compared to Trump's racism.
Like I said, though, this isn't about the goddamn "both sides" distraction, but rather a reflection on all of us. How many of us voted Clinton without thinking about her bullshit? So then why is there an expectation the other side had to vote "better" than us?
I think it's very easy to argue that voting for Trump was an evil act. Sure, in some cases you can argue that the voter was very ignorant or that they had other (but insufficient) reasons for voting for Trump such that they did so while lamenting a lot of what he stood for, but surely people have a responsibility to vote, well, responsibly. That you cast an evil vote accidentally is not much of an excuse.
But of course many Trump voters are basically good people, to the extent that there are good people in America. A single vote is really a pretty small act. I think the error people make is not in identifying the vote for Trump as an evil thing but in talking like voting for and supporting Trump are defining character traits. This kind of thing, basically:
People have this tendency to mistake moral obviousness for moral significance. There was obviously no good reason to vote for Trump -> only a bad person could have voted for Trump. But I'm sure that many Trump voters have had a much more positive impact on the world than have many Clinton voters, or otherwise win out however you want to measure how good of a person someone is (short of very implausible gerrymandered definitions). I'm sure that for almost everyone you can find a thing that they've done for obviously bad reasons that has produced at least as much harm as a single vote for Trump. It is weird to pick them out as a group and talk as if their vote makes it very likely that they are worse people than anyone else.
But of course many Trump voters are basically good people, to the extent that there are good people in America. A single vote is really a pretty small act. I think the error people make is not in identifying the vote for Trump as an evil thing but in talking like voting for and supporting Trump are defining character traits. This kind of thing, basically:
People have this tendency to mistake moral obviousness for moral significance. There was obviously no good reason to vote for Trump -> only a bad person could have voted for Trump. But I'm sure that many Trump voters have had a much more positive impact on the world than have many Clinton voters, or otherwise win out however you want to measure how good of a person someone is (short of very implausible gerrymandered definitions). I'm sure that for almost everyone you can find a thing that they've done for obviously bad reasons that has produced at least as much harm as a single vote for Trump. It is weird to pick them out as a group and talk as if their vote makes it very likely that they are worse people than anyone else.
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