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[Yoshimitsu126]

I think there are millions of families who would have a word to say about you saying Clintons' push of their crime bill resulted in "nothing" compared to Trump's racism.

Like I said, though, this isn't about the goddamn "both sides" distraction, but rather a reflection on all of us. How many of us voted Clinton without thinking about her bullshit? So then why is there an expectation the other side had to vote "better" than us?

I honestly hope the next progressive candiate for 2020 ignores the people who still support Trump and focus on half of the population who failed to show up in 2016.

 

[Nepenthe]

How many of us voted Clinton without thinking about her bullshit? So then why is there an expectation the other side had to vote "better" than us?

Because the other side has yet to hold their president accountable even if it's through nothing but backlash, nor to agree that they may have made a choice that resulted in a racist outcome and thus they hold some responsibility for that.

Instead, it's just constant deflection to a childish degree. Asking a Trump voter to acknowledge that they voted for a racist is like pulling blood from a stone.

 

[pigeon]

But again, I'm pretty sure my family and friends aren't like that, grandma included.

Well, of course you are. That's the whole problem!

Are they evil scum who should be grouped together and thrown into their own metaphorical (and for some, literal) human-sized ovens?

I feel like you really misunderstood the events of WWII.

The Nazis are the people who did the genociding, not the people who got genocided.

 

[AlexFlame116]

Good luck with this thread SOLDIER. You're gonna need it.

 

[Lord Frieza]

I think there are millions of families who would have a word to say about you saying Clintons' push of their crime bill resulted in "nothing" compared to Trump's racism.

Like I said, though, this isn't about the goddamn "both sides" distraction, but rather a reflection on all of us. How many of us voted Clinton without thinking about her bullshit? So then why is there an expectation the other side had to vote "better" than us?

Honestly, that's exactly what it comes off like. Of course, Clinton deserved crap for that, but it was over 20 years ago and she had apologized for it. Does that rectonatively make it right in the time, of course not, but comparing the two is so off since the level of racism is entirely different and there sure as hell is no remorse coming from Trump for anything he's said or done in the past.

This is not a hill to die on

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I read this story today about a right vs left protest fight: http://www.portlandmercury.com/blog...ht-wing-march-left-wing-protest-in-montavilla

At the park, a Trump supporter carrying a baseball bat (quickly confiscated by police) tried to fight people, and yelled "fuck all you n****rs." He'd later give the Nazi salute. It should be noted that a number other Trump fans disavowed him and wouldn't let him into the futsal court were the first part of the rally was being held.

The thread's consensus is already objectively unfounded. I think it'd be best for some of you to look past the finger-pointing and instead self-reflect on some shit.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Because the other side has yet to hold their president accountable even if it's through nothing but backlash, nor to agree that they may have made a choice that resulted in a racist outcome and thus they hold some responsibility for that.

I feel like I and many others have posted a hundred times on this forum about Obama deporting more people than any other president, authorizing and defending mass surveillance, and talking up his civilian-killing drone strikes in Syria. Still, I have rarely seen responsibility or even discussion follow up on these points, because people here just want to point fingers instead of have actual political discussion. There's no accountability anywhere on a level that makes anyone feel good.

 

[Lord Frieza]

I read this story today about a right vs left protest fight: http://www.portlandmercury.com/blog...ht-wing-march-left-wing-protest-in-montavilla

The thread's consensus is already objectively unfounded. I think it'd be best for some of you to look past the finger-pointing and instead self-reflect on some shit.

How many of them are really against that, though, and how many of them are just self-aware enough to know how bad it makes them look as a group. Maybe you want to self-reflect why it is that you're so willing to wave away the wrongs of these people for both sides rhetoric.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

How many of them are really against that, though, and how many of them are just self-aware enough to know how bad it makes them look as a group. Maybe you want to self-reflect why it is that you're so willing to wave away the wrongs of these people for both sides rhetoric.

Cool, moving forward with pure speculation on something you just skimmed in a minute from a city you presumably don't live in! This is a valuable take.

I'd like to see more listening and learning from all sides, guys.

 

[-COOLIO-]

I think it's very easy to argue that voting for Trump was an evil act. Sure, in some cases you can argue that the voter was very ignorant or that they had other (but insufficient) reasons for voting for Trump such that they did so while lamenting a lot of what he stood for, but surely people have a responsibility to vote, well, responsibly. That you cast an evil vote accidentally is not much of an excuse.

But of course many Trump voters are basically good people, to the extent that there are good people in America. A single vote is really a pretty small act. I think the error people make is not in identifying the vote for Trump as an evil thing but in talking like voting for and supporting Trump are defining character traits. This kind of thing, basically:

People have this tendency to mistake moral obviousness for moral significance. There was obviously no good reason to vote for Trump -> only a bad person could have voted for Trump. But I'm sure that many Trump voters have had a much more positive impact on the world than have many Clinton voters, or otherwise win out however you want to measure how good of a person someone is (short of very implausible gerrymandered definitions). I'm sure that for almost everyone you can find a thing that they've done for obviously bad reasons that has produced at least as much harm as a single vote for Trump. It is weird to pick them out as a group and talk as if their vote makes it very likely that they are worse people than anyone else.

good post.

 

[Micael]

It only takes one second to understand why Trump is wrong.

What does Make America Great Again mean? What could have happened in the last 50 years that America suddenly needs "saving" and Trump is the only one to do it?

Trump voters have no excuse. If you're capable of thinking, you're capable of seeing the blatant racism that MAGA can only mean.

The point isn't if they are wrong or not, which I believe they are, the point is that you aren't going to change absolutely anything by ignoring those people or demonizing them, the fact that Trump is so absurdly wrong and bad only makes it easier to change peoples minds, debate on it, show the facts that support that, counter their views, you aren't going to change the world right away, but the alternative that is being employed of name calling people (yes they are people not caricatures of evil) is not the solution.

First, yeah, actually, it does mean being okay with that. You choose the person who is openly racist and misogynist at every turn, it absolutely means acceptance of those qualities. No getting around it.[/

] Second, it means accepting that behavior in return for... what? What, exactly? What did he campaign on that wasn't terrible?

So you accepted every stance of everyone you have ever voted for?
You are one lucky men to have access to candidates that mirror your views so identical to the point you don't disagree with anything they ever stood for, most people however are not so lucky and have to choose the person that most resembles their views and will drive what they found to be most important.

For the second part I answered in another post, which I should clarify yet again not only didn't I vote or believe in Trump, I'm not even from the USA, I'm from Portugal which is lets say a bit less right leaning.

You have a hard time doing it because it's fucking impossible to do

I did gave you reasons for why people might have voted that way, the reason why I have an hard time is because I am left leaning, the USA is right leaning, your democratic party is seen as left in the USA, but in a lot of other European countries they are at best center right, I mean our Minister of Justice is a female Angolan (and yes she is black), that alone would drive the GOP insane, so yeah I would have an hard time even selling someone on Hillary Clinton (even if she is the right choice in this election).

Christ, we went through a World War to transform Nazi Germany into Modern Germany. You cannot be serious with this.

The war wasn't to transform Nazi Germany into Modern Germany, the war was to remove Nazis from power, there is a huge difference, nazi sentiments didn't die as soon as the allies won, the fact that you still had plenty of nazi supporters after the war was over should be more than indicative enough of that, education is a core part of evolving social tendencies.

You mean through a fucking World War that killed millions in order to nip Nazism as political powerhouse in the bud, right?

Do you honestly think nazi sentiments just died in post world war 2 Germany because they lost?

 

[Yoshimitsu126]

I read this story today about a right vs left protest fight: http://www.portlandmercury.com/blog...ht-wing-march-left-wing-protest-in-montavilla

The thread's consensus is already objectively unfounded. I think it'd be best for some of you to look past the finger-pointing and instead self-reflect on some shit.

Oh cool they have morals too! And if they have any decency they will show up for a better candidate in 2020 and not continie to be conned by a fascist and compliant to racism to reinforce their biased worldview.

Now is not the time to extend the peace treaty to the other side. Its time to stand up for what you believe in.

 

[Nepenthe]

I feel like I and many others have posted a hundred times on this forum about Obama deporting more people than any other president, authorizing and defending mass surveillance, and talking up his civilian-killing drone strikes in Syria. Still, I have rarely seen responsibility or even discussion follow up on these points, because people here just want to point fingers instead of have actual political discussion.

Does the discussion not follow up because Obama voters on GAF specifically are probably already in agreement that these things that Obama did are wrong, or because they don't want to engage in criticism of the President either because they like the bad stuff or because they don't want to share in blame of the bad stuff?

 

[ClosingADoor]

How many of them are really against that, though, and how many of them are just self-aware enough to know how bad it makes them look as a group. Maybe you want to self-reflect why it is that you're so willing to wave away the wrongs of these people for both sides rhetoric.

This is very hard to say without asking the actual people involved (and then believing their answers or not).

It is also one of the problems of a two party system. You will then have people who refuse to vote for one party, and instead choose to overlook the terrible things their party says. The US political landscape would probably look a lot different if there were a dozen parties to choose from and some actual coalition building necessary.

 

[hey_monkey]

Like at some point the idea that all of America is racist because it was founded and sustained as a racist country for its entire lifetime is going to show up in these console war-style debates. Pointing fingers at Trump voters is silly with the perspective of the history and breadth of racism here. We're all complicit.

^^^Saying this is the only thing I ever got banned for (I'm still not sure why? Maybe it was my phrasing?) and I'd say it again. We do need to make this a baseline and argue from there.

 

[Lord Frieza]

The war wasn't to transform Nazi Germany into Modern Germany, the war was to remove Nazis from power, there is a huge difference, nazi sentiments didn't die as soon as the allies won, the fact that you still had plenty of nazi supporters after the war was over should be more than indicative enough of that, education is a core part of evolving social tendencies.



Do you honestly think nazi sentiments just died in post world war 2 Germany because they lost?

I mean, I really don't know what else can be said about this

 

[Kinyou]

Yeah, I caught that the second time, too. I'm sure it wasn't the name-calling, sure, it was probably more to do with the war where we fucking killed a large part of them, the trials that proceeded after we found just how big the holocaust was, and the intense public shaming the Germans had to endear which included banning all Nazi shit. But maybe education was it, I dunno, I'm not a doctor

That's how you defeat the nazi regime, but to defeat the ideology education played a crucial part.

 

[Derwind]

You support a racist candidate then you take ownership of all their racist policies, not just the ones you like.

Exactly. I respect those that can take ownership of their decisions a lot more too.

Isn't the Republican party, the party of "personal responsibility"?

Own that shit.

 

[Siegcram]

I feel like I and many others have posted a hundred times on this forum about Obama deporting more people than any other president, authorizing and defending mass surveillance, and talking up his civilian-killing drone strikes in Syria. Still, I have rarely seen responsibility or even discussion follow up on these points, because people here just want to point fingers instead of have actual political discussion. There's no accountability anywhere on a level that makes anyone feel good.

I don't see any threads on this in your history. If you're so interested in discussing Obama's shortcomings, make a thread.

In the meantime you can pack up your relativistic bullshit and stop wasting your and our time.

 

[Xe4]

I think there are millions of families who would have a word to say about you saying Clintons' push of their crime bill resulted in "nothing" compared to Trump's racism.

Like I said, though, this isn't about the goddamn "both sides" distraction, but rather a reflection on all of us. How many of us voted Clinton without thinking about her bullshit? So then why is there an expectation the other side had to vote "better" than us?

I will tell every one of those families to their faces that Trumps words and actions were worse than Clinton's support of the crime bill. And you know what? Most of them would probably agree with me. The three strikes policy was a fucking mistake. I dont think you'll find anyone who will disagree with that. Shit Clinton agrees with that. But it's important to remember as harmful as the three strikes policy was, and as much as I look down on any politician who supported it, it's important to recognize that the policies Trump is pushing are far, faaaaaaaaar worse. Shit, he put in a god damn white supremacist as the attorney general, and his "law and order" approach is going to harm African American and black citizen populations far more than the crime bill did, if implemented. Not to mention the shit he's trying to pull on the Muslim and immigrant populations.

Not to mention, the reason for doing it is worse. The crime bill was a poorly thought out, poorly executed piece of legislation with serious racial undertones, but any legislation Trump will try to pass will not just have racial undertones, it will be built on the premise of white supremacy. That is why Trump is so dangerous, and that is why I will hold people who voted for him to a much higher standard than those who voted for anyone else. Because it's so obvious he hates minorities, and will try to do everything he can to make their lives worse. And supporting someone like that is inexcusable.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

In the meantime you can pack up your relativistic bullshit and stop wasting your and our time.

This is actually a great title for the thread.

 

[Lord Frieza]

This is very hard to say without asking the actual people involved (and then believing their answers or not).

I don't think it's that hard to say when you consider the context, but fair enough.

It is also one of the problems of a two party system. You will then have people who refuse to vote for one party, and instead choose to overlook the terrible things their party says. The US political landscape would probably look a lot different if there were a dozen parties to choose from and some actual coalition building necessary.

Eh, it just feels like muddying waters that aren't that muddy for the sake of the beast of both sides to have its meat. I mean, I think the majority here agree they aren't literal Nazis, but they deserve to bear the blunt of voting for a campaign that was fueled almost entirely by racist rheotic, and hand-waving all that away is just not something I agree with. But it's whatever, I'm tired of arguing this. It's not like any of these people are ever going to self-reflect about it, so it's all worthless conversation anyway.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Back when I was en edgy teenager, I had lots of condescending thoughts about "why are most people so stupid?"

As I grew up, I eventually started thinking, "well, it's not like I have tons of incredible accomplishments under my belt, and there are a lot of people out there who have achieved more than I have and have more life experience than I have, so maybe I shouldn't be so judgemental about people I don't really know."

I think I'm swinging back towards "why are most people so stupid?"

 

[hey_monkey]

So you accepted every stance of everyone you have ever voted for?
You are one lucky men to have access to candidates that mirror your views so identical to the point you don't disagree with anything they ever stood for, most people however are not so lucky and have to choose the person that most resembles their views and will drive what they found to be most important.

First, I'm a woman. It would be super cool if GAF could eventually get past this assumption that everyone here is a man.

Second, don't be reductive. Of course I don't agree with everything every candidate I've voted for has supported; it's a matrix of factors that leads to a decision unless someone is a single-issue voter, which is its own problem and really not worth discussing. What I'm arguing here is that everything Trump supported during the campaign was grounded in racism, misogyny, and/or entitlement. All of his major campaign platform points, every one of them, can be linked to attacking minorities, women, the poor, or xenophobia, or all of the above.

 

[MUnited83]

I read this story today about a right vs left protest fight: http://www.portlandmercury.com/blog...ht-wing-march-left-wing-protest-in-montavilla

The thread's consensus is already objectively unfounded. I think it'd be best for some of you to look past the finger-pointing and instead self-reflect on some shit.

Not wanting a deranged violent man with a bat near you isn't not being a racist, it's just self preservation at work.

 

[StillEdge]

Funniest part about this thread is thinking your 80 year old grandma isn't racist.

 

[Micael]

That's how you defeat the nazi regime, but to defeat the ideology education played a crucial part.

Yaps pretty much what I am trying to get at, maybe someone from Germany can contribute here, I'm sure they are more aware about their education on this subject.

 

[Toxi]

The war wasn't to transform Nazi Germany into Modern Germany, the war was to remove Nazis from power, there is a huge difference, nazi sentiments didn't die as soon as the allies won, the fact that you still had plenty of nazi supporters after the war was over should be more than indicative enough of that, education is a core part of evolving social tendencies.

Do you honestly think nazi sentiments just died in post world war 2 Germany because they lost?

Why do you think that education happened in the first place?

Germany was beaten into the ground, cut up, and shamed on a world stage. Millions of Germans were dead and their infrastructure was bombed into a wasteland. The Nuremberg Trials saw Nazis condemned for their crimes and hanged.

 

[commedieu]

Literally nazis? Of course not.

Totally cool with being on the side that nazis and white supremacists support?

Yep. 10 times out of 10. Yep.

The whole problem is voting for the guy endorsed by the white supremacist party and that surrounds himself with people like Steve bannon. People act like they get to disassociate themselves from the strength of their vote. Nope. It doesn't work that way. At all.

Voted for obama. Hate the drone strikes. I'm responsible for that. Just like if I literally voted for someone pandering to white supremacists.

Being able to brush aside racism makes you worthless to society.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I don't think we have the humility Germans have developed after WW2. The lack of accountability and responsibility here will continue long after Trump's dead.

 

[yanipheonu]

There was an interesting story I saw about lifelong Right Wing voters, being conflicted about voting Republican.

I can't imagine what I'd do if I genuinely and adamantly believed a particular political belief was the right course for the country, and wanted to vote for it; but the representative for it was so abhorrent and clearly racist.

Not voting might not be a bad option in such a situation.

It's almost as if the two party system doesn't properly reflect the actual nuances in the various left and right communities.

 

[Nepenthe]

I don't think we have the humility Germans have developed after WW2. The lack of accountability and responsibility here will continue long after Trump's dead.

Manifest destiny/American exceptionalism coupled with the fact that we've never actually been thoroughly punished for our fuck-ups? Of course we don't have the humility to do a German style shakedown of harmful ideologies.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

It's almost as if the two party system doesn't properly reflect the actual nuances in the various left and right communities.

Now here's a starting talking point that's more in tune with how voters think and decide. I agree.

 

[CountAntonius]

I think it's very easy to argue that voting for Trump was an evil act. Sure, in some cases you can argue that the voter was very ignorant or that they had other (but insufficient) reasons for voting for Trump such that they did so while lamenting a lot of what he stood for, but surely people have a responsibility to vote, well, responsibly. That you cast an evil vote accidentally is not much of an excuse.

But of course many Trump voters are basically good people, to the extent that there are good people in America. A single vote is really a pretty small act. I think the error people make is not in identifying the vote for Trump as an evil thing but in talking like voting for and supporting Trump are defining character traits. This kind of thing, basically:

People have this tendency to mistake moral obviousness for moral significance. There was obviously no good reason to vote for Trump -> only a bad person could have voted for Trump. But I'm sure that many Trump voters have had a much more positive impact on the world than have many Clinton voters, or otherwise win out however you want to measure how good of a person someone is (short of very implausible gerrymandered definitions). I'm sure that for almost everyone you can find a thing that they've done for obviously bad reasons that has produced at least as much harm as a single vote for Trump. It is weird to pick them out as a group and talk as if their vote makes it very likely that they are worse people than anyone else.

It's frustrating as hell when a person I consider good voted for him but it doesn't by default make them an awful person especially since a lot of them have careers where they do a lot of good. It''s shitty but we have always known the average voter doesn't have the most well researched vote. I'm Mexican and a lot of the people in my family will vote for a Mexican candidate no matter what, even if the guy has a horrible track record or a republican. Voting badly isn't just a Trump voter thing it's a people thing.

 

[hey_monkey]

I don't think we have the humility Germans have developed after WW2. The lack of accountability and responsibility here will continue long after Trump's dead.

We have a very difficult time admitting we are wrong, in issues both big and small.

 

[APF]

Hillary voters were extremely well-informed, and Hillary herself is one of the most scrutinized living figures in history. The idea that we weren't aware of her faults or did no self-reflection upon casting our votes is absurd.

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

This guy really nails it on the head to be honest. Well said.

 

[Lord Frieza]

There was an interesting story I saw about lifelong Right Wing voters, being conflicted about voting Republican.

I can't imagine what I'd do if I genuinely and adamantly believed a particular political belief was the right course for the country, and wanted to vote for it; but the representative for it was so abhorrent and clearly racist.

Not voting might be a bad option in such a situation.

It's almost as if the two party system doesn't properly reflect the actual nuances in the various left and right communities.

They have a choice to make, and they make it. At some point, it's time for responsibility

Why do you think that education happened in the first place?

Germany was beaten into the ground, cut up, and shamed on a world stage.

I can't even believe this conversation is happening lol. Like, the fuck?

 

[Xe4]

I don't think we have the humility Germans have developed after WW2. The lack of accountability and responsibility here will continue long after Trump's dead.

It took Germany murdering ten million of people, and then having those that did it put on public trial and executed to have that sort of humility. Even then, it's slipping away as those who remember die. People don't like to admit they were the bad guys, it's just human nature not to.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

He is going to run the US like a business, stop outsourcing and invigorate the middle class. Is it really hard to see what message was spread to get millions of Americans to vote for him?

1) Other countries are not rival companies.

2) Other heads of countries are not rival CEOs.

3) The American people are not your workers.

I refuse to believe that a majority of Americans believed all three were false.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I don't think it's that hard to say when you consider the context, but fair enough.

Eh, it just feels like muddying waters that aren't that muddy for the sake of the beast of both sides to have its meat. I mean, I think the majority here agree they aren't literal Nazis, but they deserve to bear the blunt of voting for a campaign that was fueled almost entirely by racist rheotic, and hand-waving all that away is just not something I agree with. But it's whatever, I'm tired of arguing this. It's not like any of these people are ever going to self-reflect about it, so it's all worthless conversation anyway.

Oh, I agree they are responsible for their vote and what that vote represents. I just don't think it is useful to label them all as nazi's and racists when talking about Trump voters in general. If I am in a direct discussion with one, I will call him out on what his vote stands for. But when the issue is what is to be done from now on to actually fix this stuff, I don't think it helps to talk down and point fingers like that. Sadly, that is just not how humans work.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

1) Other countries are not rival companies.

2) Other heads of countries are not rival CEOs.

3) The American people are not your workers.

I refuse to believe that a majority of Americans believed all three were false.

Majority of Americans did vote for Hillary Clinton.

 

[FStubbs]

They are scum.

If you support racism against minorities, you are a racist piece of s**t.

If you support politicians whose main platform is racism against minorities, it doesn't matter what their other policies are, you support racism against minorities, and therefore you are a racist piece of s**t.

Every Trump voter is a racist piece of s**t. They may not wear sheets like David Duke but the end result is the same.

The scary thing is the GOP has guys like Mike Pence, Jeff Sessions, and Steve King who are quite honestly FAR more racist and bigoted than even Trump is. Even with Trump, the rabbit hole of racism goes really, really deep in the GOP.

 

[Yoshimitsu126]

I don't think we have the humility Germans have developed after WW2. The lack of accountability and responsibility here will continue long after Trump's dead.

With that attitude of course we will. That's why we can't sugar coat this administration and must call out on the views of current Trump supporters who don't want to debate about the harm he brings into US democracy.

We need to also need to hold the GOP accountable as well just as the Republicans attempted with the Democrats in the reconstruction era but not let up. And we need to reform Super Pacs and our spoil system driven politics.

 

[quesalupa]

Yeah it's a pretty unhelpful sentiment. Many are just ignorant or plain stupid.

 

[FStubbs]

It took Germany murdering ten million of people, and then having those that did it put on public trial and executed to have that sort of humility. Even then, it's slipping away as those who remember die. People don't like to admit they were the bad guys, it's just human nature not to.

America had slavery and Jim Crow and conservatives still defend them (and want them back).

With that attitude of course we will. That's why we can't sugar coat this administration and must call out on the views of current Trump supporters who don't want to debate about the harm he brings into US democracy.

We need to also need to hold the GOP accountable as well just as the Republicans attempted with the Democrats in the reconstruction era but not let up. And we need to reform Super Pacs and our spoil system driven politics.

Reconstruction era the parties were different. It was conversatives who held slaves, conservatives who seceded from the Union, conservatives who enacted Jim Crow, and conservatives who elected Trump. What party they're with doesn't matter.

 

[Snowybreak]

Oh, I agree they are responsible for their vote and what that vote represents. I just don't think it is useful to label them all as nazi's and racists when talking about Trump voters in general. If I am in a direct discussion with one, I will call him out on what his vote stands for. But when the issue is what is to be done from now on to actually fix this stuff, I don't think it helps to talk down and point fingers like that. Sadly, that is just not how humans work.

It might be better to, instead of calling the other side racist, put all of Trump's bullshit in sharp relief for these people. You bring a chart of all the fucked up things this guy has said and done to most people and they shrivel back a bit, the seed of doubt planted in their minds.

Don't point fingers at the voters, bring the real Trump to them, showing them how fucked up he is, and what they voted for.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

I honestly hope the next progressive candiate for 2020 ignores the people who still support Trump and focus on half of the population who failed to show up in 2016.

There's no point. Either change the law to make it mandatory to vote or forget about it. It's mostly about which base that accepts the lesser of two evils spiel is more energized. Both sides are too corrupt to turn out the tens of millions that stay home no matter the lip service. Therefore, the Democrats and GOP should be smart with their time.

 

[Siegcram]

It might be better to, instead of calling the other side racist, put all of Trump's bullshit in sharp relief for these people. You bring a chart of all the fucked up things this guy has said and done to most people and they shrivel back a bit, the seed of doubt planted in their minds.

Don't point fingers at the voters, bring the real Trump to them, showing them how fucked up he is, and what they voted for.

Definitely. If there's something Trump voters are receptive of, it's charts and facts.

 

[CountAntonius]

It might be better to, instead of calling the other side racist, put all of Trump's bullshit in sharp relief for these people. You bring a chart of all the fucked up things this guy has said and done to most people and they shrivel back a bit, the seed of doubt planted in their minds.

Don't point fingers at the voters, bring the real Trump to them, showing them how fucked up he is, and what they voted for.

But then you can't use your soapbox and be self righteous.