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Pai Pai Master · Apr 28, 2012

People are very hung up on the whole supers for KOs thing, sounds like they just feel like they'll be dying too much. But you need to look at it from the perspective of this game and not Smash; in Smash it is generally harder to kill your opponent but I dont see why the kill counts can't be higher in this, it's a different game.

prwxv3 · Apr 28, 2012

BruceLeeRoy said:
They do a really great breakdown. Their excitement is so infectious plus Gregs favorite SSB game is mine as well awwww yeah.
I didn't know that Kratos moveset from GOW translates into the game as well. That is bad ass.

And they seemed to understand who the game was made for. Playstation fans

Ran rp · Apr 28, 2012

Totobeni said:
Yeah but she is too new,other older Sony girls should be in the game first, after all this game should be about nostalgia first.

Sony would be stupid to not have her in PSASBR at launch and promote her game and the Vita. I don't know the extent of her abilities in Gravity Rush but I'm imagining her as some sort of Mewtwo/Lucario type character because of her gravity powers.

BruceLeeRoy · Apr 28, 2012

prwxv3 said:
And they seemed to understand who the game was made for. Playstation fans

Well they are playstation fans and though it's self serving that's what we want

corporate cheerleader · Apr 28, 2012

Pai Pai Master said:
People are very hung up on the whole supers for KOs thing, sounds like they just feel like they'll be dying too much. But you need to look at it from the perspective of this game and not Smash; in Smash it is generally harder to kill your opponent but I dont see why the kill counts can't be higher in this, it's a different game.

I think that it seems less deep if there's only one way to kill the opponents in a smash-like game.

prwxv3 · Apr 28, 2012

BruceLeeRoy said:
Well they are playstation fans and though it's self serving that's what we want

It just seems that other outlets really dont understand that and they just go on about how the playstation characters are not iconic enough when many of these characters are special to playstation fans.

Atruvius · Apr 28, 2012

I like how in Metropolis level they actually use the classic Metropolis level music instead of the different (and worse) Tools of Destruction version, but use the ToD version of Metropolis.

I think characters should have their original looks as alternate costumes. Ratchet would have that leather cap and jeans, Jak would have his tubey hait etc.

Ploid 3.0 · Apr 28, 2012

General Shank-a-snatch said:
I think that it seems less deep if there's only one way to kill the opponents in a smash-like game.

There are 3 ways per character. You'll need to fight to get to them though. Being able to use the supers effectively, and keeping your AP while reducing your competition AP will be part of the whole plan it seems. It looks like it's not that difficult to build enough meter unless you're saving up for level 3.

Endo Punk · Apr 28, 2012

I hope this not another situation like Uncharted. Critics and gamers were so stuck on the game being a Gears and Tomb Raider clone that it actually got underrated and swept aside, it wasn't until word of mouth that people started picking up the game. Plus it took a phenomenal sequel for haters to understand that it stands on its own merits.

Superbot love fighting games, assessed the competition and making the game accordingly. Calling it a half-assed rip-off is really uncalled for. Granted Superbot has a lot to prove regarding mechanics, modes etc but it looks promising.

Drencrom said:
It's pretty ironic that they introduced characters like Colonel Radec (scifi nazi officer), Kratos (murderous anti-hero) and Sweet tooth (psychopathic killer clown) in a family game.

Man little Timmy is going to love this lol. I wonder if the characters will have a detailed bio, it needs in order to make people aware of the franchises they come from.

BruceLeeRoy · Apr 28, 2012

prwxv3 said:
It just seems that other outlets really dont understand that and they just go on about how the playstation characters are not iconic enough when many of these characters are special to playstation fans.

Yeah it's ludicrous. I grew up with Nintendo and I love their main stables but I have a lot of nostalgia and love for Sony. For a long time they replaced the big N for a lot of people.

Oldschoolgamer · Apr 28, 2012

Imm0rt4l said:
He is? Has he posted in this thread?

I dunno if he has or not. I haven't really even been following this game. It was posted on SRK's front page though. I'm excited now that I know that they have some experienced fg players helping out with combat design. lol

prwxv3 · Apr 28, 2012

Drencrom said:
It's pretty ironic that they introduced characters like Colonel Radec (scifi nazi officer), Kratos (murderous anti-hero) and Sweet tooth (psychopathic killer clown) in a family game.

This is what separates this game from Smash Bros. Having these far more mature violent characters beating the shit out of cartoony characters like sly and parappa can elevate this game to a absurdness level that even Smash Bros can't reach.

Phoenician_Viking · Apr 28, 2012

PSY・S;37375494 said:
Sony would be stupid to not have her in PSASBR at launch and promote her game and the Vita. I don't know the extent of her abilities in Gravity Rush but I'm imagining her as some sort of Mewtwo/Lucario type character because of her gravity powers.

Sony is maybe saving the VITA announcement to E3. This and LBPK are a given for a Vita. It also make good cross platform games, that might take a bit of thunder from the WiiU. Knowing Sony they won´t do anything of the sort.

Dark_AnNiaLatOr · Apr 28, 2012

Does anyone have a link to some gameplay that includes the stage's music as well?, because all I have foud is gameplay with voiceovers.

def sim · Apr 28, 2012

I wouldn't go so far as to say those characters are "mature," but I get the absurdity point.

prwxv3 · Apr 28, 2012

Friedreich said:
I wouldn't go so far as to say those characters are "mature," but I get the absurdity point.

I ment they came from violent games.

Hieberrr · Apr 28, 2012

I certainly hope there's more colour.

bobbychalkers · Apr 28, 2012

Pai Pai Master said:
People are very hung up on the whole supers for KOs thing, sounds like they just feel like they'll be dying too much. But you need to look at it from the perspective of this game and not Smash; in Smash it is generally harder to kill your opponent but I dont see why the kill counts can't be higher in this, it's a different game.

I'm just concerned that the whole race to get the super bar filled could get tedious after a while.

thetrin · Apr 28, 2012

Pai Pai Master said:
People are very hung up on the whole supers for KOs thing, sounds like they just feel like they'll be dying too much. But you need to look at it from the perspective of this game and not Smash; in Smash it is generally harder to kill your opponent but I dont see why the kill counts can't be higher in this, it's a different game.

I'm hung up on it because I think it's silly that a normal can't KO a character. If normals only exist to build meter, Nothing that happens before the supers pop actually matters, and that's pretty silly.

Also, have they talked at all about the existence of EX moves?

jaypah · Apr 28, 2012

BruceLeeRoy said:
Yeah it's ludicrous. I grew up with Nintendo and I love their main stables but I have a lot of nostalgia and love for Sony. For a long time they replaced the big N for a lot of people.

I think that's what it boils down to and a lot of people can't separate their own past from the past of others. I have a damn near lifelong attachment to Nintendo's franchises and even though I've owned and loved all of Sony's platforms i have very little attachment to their franchises. But for the people whose "Nintendo" IS Playstation this game is going to be fucking awesome. Screw the sales, screw the "mass appeal" of the characters, if you're a Playstation fan it is awesome to have a game that celebrates the history of your platform of choice. And it shouldn't be instant troll bait to be excited about it.

Imm0rt4l · Apr 28, 2012

hearing that Maj is also on board got me watching his combo exhibitions again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lBYMq8BNS0&list=PL7C83BD63D3219778&index=4&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpOq-67YHdI&feature=autoplay&list=PL7C83BD63D3219778&playnext=1

Sooo Good.

corporate cheerleader · Apr 28, 2012

Ploid 3.0 said:
There are 3 ways per character. You'll need to fight to get to them though. Being able to use the supers effectively, and keeping your AP while reducing your competition AP will be part of the whole plan it seems. It looks like it's not that difficult to build enough meter unless you're saving up for level 3.

I get that, but I was mostly thinking about the freedom that Smash Bros. gives you on how to deal with opponents. Once you see a platform arena fighter like this, you can't help but compare, haha.

thetrin · Apr 28, 2012

jaypah said:
I think that's what it boils down to and a lot of people can't separate their own past from the past of others. I have a damn near lifelong attachment to Nintendo's franchises and even though I've owned and loved all of Sony's platforms i have very little attachment to their franchises. But for the people whose "Nintendo" IS Playstation this game is going to be fucking awesome. Screw the sales, screw the "mass appeal" of the characters, if you're a Playstation fan it is awesome to have a game that celebrates the history of your platform of choice. And it shouldn't be instant troll bait to be excited about it.

I think Sony's situation is different from Nintendo's. For a lot of people (including myself), the real heyday of Sony was because of its INSANELY strong 3rd party lineup. A LOT of the iconic characters people associate with Playstation are from 3rd party IPs.

So even though I love Playstation and have owned every playstation so far, I really don't have any love for most of its own in-house properties because for a long time, their quality paled in comparison to third party output. That's changed a lot for the PS3, but MOST of what I and others played on PSone and 2 were made by other companies.

KevinCow · Apr 28, 2012

bobbychalkers said:
I'm just concerned that the whole race to get the super bar filled could get tedious after a while.

How so? You fill your super bar by punching dudes. If punching dudes gets tedious, then the game probably wouldn't have been very fun even with a standard health bar.

thetrin · Apr 28, 2012

KevinCow said:
How so? You fill your super bar by punching dudes. If punching dudes gets tedious, then the game probably wouldn't have been very fun even with a standard health bar.

The fun of normals is reducing health by playing mind games with the other player. You're reducing their health because they slip up, and you get a few good hits in that make the battle even more tense.

If your normals do nothing but build meter, the enjoyment of normals kinda disappears, because nothing actually matter until someone pops a super.

Imagine if in SFxT, you couldn't damage your opponents except for when you hit with a super or a cross art. What would be the point of footsies, cross ups and mix ups? A few extra ticks on the super bar?

electroshockwave · Apr 28, 2012

prwxv3 said:
It just seems that other outlets really dont understand that and they just go on about how the playstation characters are not iconic enough when many of these characters are special to playstation fans.

I find it more annoying that some people seem to act like every character in SSB is Mario tier in terms of popularity. Captain Falcon is known more for SSB than the series he actually comes from. Ness has been in every game but Earthbound was never released in Europe, and Brawl has Lucas when Mother 3 was never released outside Japan. Pit hadn't had a game for almost 20 years before Brawl and most people couldn't care less about Fire Emblem characters. Even though Metroid is traditionally viewed as one of Nintendo's big three Prime 3 and Other M had worse sales than many Sony franchises do.

Zoramon089 · Apr 28, 2012

KevinCow said:
How so? You fill your super bar by punching dudes. If punching dudes gets tedious, then the game probably wouldn't have been very fun even with a standard health bar.

Well it's a different paradigm than most fighting games. Whether it's Smash or other traditional fighting games hitting opponents affects THEM negatively while this is the first one where it affects YOU positively. And yeah, that's the case with fighting games that have supers but that's a side effect. I can see why it's hard for people to wrap their heads around this

Ran rp · Apr 28, 2012

Pai Pai Master said:
People are very hung up on the whole supers for KOs thing, sounds like they just feel like they'll be dying too much. But you need to look at it from the perspective of this game and not Smash; in Smash it is generally harder to kill your opponent but I dont see why the kill counts can't be higher in this, it's a different game.

Intense air battles over ledges where the loser gets sent to the depths below or into the side boundaries are one of my main draws to the Smash Bros. series. Because the main formula of PSASBR is death by supers only the stages are designed around that and it ruins any chance of PSASBR being as memorable for me as Smash. I was so disappointed when I saw characters happily splashing about in the water on that Hot Shots stage. It felt too safe.

I WANT MORE DANGER. I WANT MORE DEATH.

General Shank-a-snatch said:
I think that it seems less deep if there's only one way to kill the opponents in a smash-like game.

Yes. Give me options.

Ploid 3.0 said:
There are 3 ways per character. You'll need to fight to get to them though. Being able to use the supers effectively, and keeping your AP while reducing your competition AP will be part of the whole plan it seems. It looks like it's not that difficult to build enough meter unless you're saving up for level 3.

That's all death by supers though. I want the ability to kill players by throwing them out of bounds or into stage hazards or using items. I'm not hating on PSASBR, I'll probably have a blast playing it, but I wish there was more depth to the gameplay than there appears to be at the moment.

Phoenician_Viking said:
Sony is maybe saving the VITA announcement to E3. This and LBPK are a given for a Vita. It also make good cross platform games, that might take a bit of thunder from the WiiU. Knowing Sony they won´t do anything of the sort.

I'm not too sure if there's much work on a Vita version yet. SuperBot is a new studio and this is their first game.

Yeah, I know that they have some talented hands on board.

They're probably working to get a PS3 title perfected before working on a Vita version. Or maybe a Vita title is being secretly developed at the same time. Who knows.

thetrin · Apr 28, 2012

I'm not competitive level fighting game player by any stretch of the imagination, but I do play fighting games pretty regularly, so I'm having a lot of trouble wrapping my head around the concept that normals do absolutely no damage.

Even Jump Superstars, a Smash game that worked more on KOs than ring outs, had normals doing significant damage to opponents.

guek · Apr 28, 2012

So what sword wielding characters can we expect in this game? Cuz sword wielders are boss. FF characters of course immediately come to mind, but who else? Maybe Dart from legend of dragoon? Or is he too unknown...

I feel like the game needs a lot more Japanese game characters. It's way too western game oriented at this point. Give me the prince from katamari!!

The more I think about this game, the more interested I get. I still have doubts about its fighting game roots, but that doesn't mean there wont be fun times had with friends.

bobbychalkers · Apr 28, 2012

KevinCow said:
How so? You fill your super bar by punching dudes. If punching dudes gets tedious, then the game probably wouldn't have been very fun even with a standard health bar.

punch dudes --> get meter --> use super or build more meter to next level --> KO rinse & repeat. I'm also a bit concerned that more defensive players would be handicapped by that setup. I just want to see a bit more variety.

Endo Punk · Apr 28, 2012

bobbychalkers said:
punch dudes --> get meter --> use super or build more meter to next level --> KO rinse & repeat. I'm also a bit concerned that more defensive players would be handicapped by that setup. I just want to see a bit more variety.

There are other means to gain meter orbs. In LBP stage anwering the question right gains orbs, some items help you gain orbs and characters like Parappa have specific moves like Boom box to gain meter orbs. Playing defense is not an issue with so many ways to make you meter grow.

Imm0rt4l · Apr 28, 2012

bobbychalkers said:
punch dudes --> get meter --> use super or build more meter to next level --> KO rinse & repeat. I'm also a bit concerned that more defensive players would be handicapped by that setup. I just want to see a bit more variety.

I think the more defensive players will just have to play more defensive/zoning characters. If a defensive player were to play parapa who's whose game is predicated on getting in, then that isn't the most efficient way to play.

guek · Apr 28, 2012

bobbychalkers said:
punch dudes --> get meter --> use super or build more meter to next level --> KO rinse & repeat. I'm also a bit concerned that more defensive players would be handicapped by that setup. I just want to see a bit more variety.

Yeah, I wrote a long detailed write up like 10 pages back about my specific concerns about the gameplay mechanics. Does anyone know if physics, hitstun, and knockback scale with your meter? That's another thing I'm worried about that I didn't mention. The percentage system makes fights incredibly dynamic in smash with enormous amounts of plasticity because all attacks react different based on the percentage level. They absolutely need something like this in All Stars to prevent every single encounter from feeling identical. It could also potentially help with balance issues. It would be less of a big deal since you can't kill people from ring outs, but I think it would add a much needed degree of variability.

Loudninja · Apr 28, 2012

I know someone else pointed this out,but its awesome how Kratos punches the screen at the end of the match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm_NJTwbUBM

thetrin · Apr 28, 2012

Imm0rt4l said:
I think the more defensive players will just have to play more defensive/zoning characters. If a defensive player were to play parapa who's whose game is predicated on getting in, then that isn't the most efficient way to play.

Except that defensive players are at an automatic disadvantage, since whoever is hitting the most is going to get meter faster than whoever is zoning/turtling. And since normals don't do any damage, you can't whittle down opponents.

guek said:
Yeah, I wrote a long detailed write up like 10 pages back about my specific concerns about the gameplay mechanics. Does anyone know if physics, hitstun, and knockback scale with your meter? That's another thing I'm worried about that I didn't mention. The percentage system makes fights incredibly dynamic in smash with enormous amounts of plasticity because all attacks react different based on the percentage level. They absolutely need something like this in All Stars to prevent every single encounter from feeling identical. It could also potentially help with balance issues. It would be less of a big deal since you can't kill people from ring outs, but I think it would add a much needed degree of variability.

This is one thing I'm wondering as well. If higher meter means you get greater hitstun and knock back, or hitting you gives more meter to opponents, it would give zoning characters a fighting chance.

Callibretto · Apr 28, 2012

I don't know why they insist on removing health bar though. add a health bar and let normal able to get a KO score, it still not gonna change the dynamic at all, supers will still have advantage because of 1 hit kill. you'll still be counting KO scores at the end of the match.

it's so easy to implement and no negatives I can think of really. it can actually add more variety like character that primarily play with normal, or maybe other character whose supers are actually more defensive move rather than always offensive etc.

Comet · Apr 28, 2012

don't you also lose AP by taking damage? Doesn't that negate the argument that punching people doesn't do anything?

Loudninja · Apr 28, 2012

Callibretto said:
I don't know why they insist on removing health bar though. add a health bar and let normal able to get a KO score, it still not gonna change the dynamic at all, supers will still have advantage because of 1 hit kill. you'll still be counting KO scores at the end of the match.

it's so easy to implement and no negatives I can think of really.

You really cant say that since you haven't played the game.

They been working on the game for 2 and half years,cant just say just add health because it does not work like that.

prwxv3 · Apr 28, 2012

I say it again. I really hope they do a beta for this game.

Drencrom · Apr 28, 2012

Hopefully they'll introduce some kind of hit points mode or something, because I'm a little worried regarding super only for KO's. It sounds like a fun side mode but I can't really think of it as the standard mode imo, because it sounds like it takes away some of the importance and danger of fighting eachother. I may be wrong, to soon to tell how this will play in the end.

Callibretto · Apr 28, 2012

Loudninja said:
You really cant say that since you haven't played the game.

well obviously, I'm just saying it based on what I've read. I think the goal of racking KO scores are fine. and I'm fine with the super bars. I just think adding health bar didn't sounds like it substract anything. it's just speculation of course.

Imm0rt4l · Apr 28, 2012

thetrin said:
Except that defensive players are at an automatic disadvantage, since whoever is hitting the most is going to get meter faster than whoever is zoning/turtling. And since normals don't do any damage, you can't whittle down opponents.

No, not necessarily. I'm not going to act like I know the ins and outs of the game because I don't, but that isn't necessarily the case.

James Sawyer Ford · Apr 28, 2012

Globox_82 said:
I was talking with someone today about this. What I like about IGN is that they have PS3 team, xbox team, Nintendo team. PS3 team guys clearly game on PS3 and like PS. As it should be.
While on most other sites 95% if the guys are xbox guys, and don't have connection with PS history. For example I was listening to IWalls today on GT. It was predictable I knew they were going to dismiss it, second guess it, mock it. In all honesty they do that with all Sony exclusives (did same crap with GOWA last week).
Every big site should hire a couple of guys that game on PS3 and care about PS like IGN PS3 guys do. It's really sad how GT is atm. Geoff is the only nice guy over there, but then he kinda doesn't work for GT

I don't think the invisible walls guys are biased towards any platform, they are just a cynical bunch about EVERYTHING.

It's really an annoying podcast in general to listen to because of the negative tone in everything they talk about. I never even listen to them because of this.

thetrin · Apr 28, 2012

Imm0rt4l said:
No, not necessarily. I'm not going to act like I know the ins and outs of the game because I don't, but that isn't necessarily the case.

No I haven't played the game either. I'm just having a hard time understanding the thinking behind normals doing no damage.

James Sawyer Ford said:
I don't think the invisible walls guys are biased towards any platform, they are just a cynical bunch about EVERYTHING.

It's really an annoying podcast in general to listen to because of the negative tone in everything they talk about. I never even listen to them because of this.

I stopped listening after my first time, when one of them asked one of the British hosts what he was hankering for, and after he responded with "kebabs", the first replied "Eww, don't you have pizza where you are?"

After that I was pretty much done. I don't need to a listen to a podcast about walking American stereotypes.

guek · Apr 28, 2012

Loudninja said:
You really cant say that since you haven't played the game.

Look, this kind of rhetoric really needs to stop. This is a fighting game. People have been playing fighting games for decades, and while this game will definitely be a unique spin on the genre, there are certain obvious questions that can be asked and a lot of potent speculation to be had. Being critical of its fighting mechanics at this stage of the game is simply a means of asking relevant questions. It's all guess work to a degree, but that doesn't suddenly make those concerns irrelevant. Yeah, no one here has played it, but if you're going to harp on people who are unsure about the games mechanics based on footage and details given by the developers, you might as well harp on those who say they think the game will be fun.

prwxv3 said:
I say it again. I really hope they do a beta for this game.

100% agree!

prwxv3 · Apr 28, 2012

James Sawyer Ford said:
I don't think the invisible walls guys are biased towards any platform, they are just a cynical bunch about EVERYTHING.

It's really an annoying podcast in general to listen to because of the negative tone in everything they talk about. I never even listen to them because of this.

Yea they really are not biased toward anything. Usually they are fine to me but the last podcast was weird. In the two-part in-depth video about this game they made they were pretty positive and sounded genuine but in IW they were pretty negative.

WillyFive · Apr 28, 2012

thetrin said:
No I haven't played the game either. I'm just having a hard time understanding the thinking behind normals doing no damage.

You benefit from them because you get AP, which do damage.

sixteen-bit · Apr 28, 2012

Pretty neat that Maj and Ed Ma are working on this. That's surprising.

Imm0rt4l · Apr 28, 2012

thetrin said:
No I haven't played the game either. I'm just having a hard time understanding the thinking behind normals doing no damage.

So am I, but I'm going to wait for more detailed impressions before I say what's best for the game seeing as this isn't really a typical 'fighting game' anyways. This doesn't need to adhere to the same sort of ruleset. I'd like to think that with talented guys like Ed Ma and Maj to help on the combat end that they aren't going to put out a broken mess, but again I'll just have to wait and see.

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