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Kai Cole, Joss Whedon's Ex-Wife, calls him out as a 'Hypocrite Preaching Feminism'

If he wrote it, the fact that it may or may not be the final draft means dick.

If he wrote it, he still wrote that shit.

When I rewrite something, it's because it's written poorly. So are you suggesting that, if Whedon did write this, he suddenly learned between the first and last drafts that sexism is bad? Going "I should not be so sexist here" if you actually have sexist views does not make you Not Sexist.

Screenwriting is a lot about putting stuff on the page sometimes. Drafts allow you to clarify and change things to their intended meaning. With the Wonder Woman script, the main issues seems to be the overly pervy scene descriptions. Between drafts you may realize "maybe I'm over sexualizing her."
 

Lothars

Member
I'm not particularly interested in who Whedon had sex with, or what his ex-wife thinks of him. I don't think either of these things is any of my business, and I'm neither shocked, nor particularly surprised that Whedon cheated repeatedly on his wife. Nor does it make me think his opinions were wrong, because he didn't live up to his own ideals. Very few people do.
That's exactly where I fall on this as well
 

traveler

Not Wario
While this is the first I've heard of PTSD being triggered from finding out an affair or 10, she was diagnosed by a doctor and I'm sure there's a lot of trauma involved. I assumed, probably incorrectly, the inciting incidents would have to be a lot more direct and overt, but I'll trust a doctor's judgment over my uninformed opinion. Seems like a hell of a thing to distrust or criticize the wife for.

Re:cheating and feminism. I don't think cheating inherently makes you anti feminist as that's a pretty hard link to make. Gay men cheat with other men, so obviously it's not strictly relegated to relationships with women. This situation, however, is more complicated due to the position of power he had, even if the other participants were willing. Taking advantage of a position like that in an industry like Hollywood- an issue that's been brought up by feminist activists- is a much more damning thing than just cheating. At that point, I'm inclined to say he betrayed his feminist ideals.
 
Screenwriting is a lot about putting stuff on the page sometimes. Drafts allow you to clarify and change things to their intended meaning. With the Wonder Woman script, the main issues seems to be the overly pervy scene descriptions. Between drafts you may realize "maybe I'm over sexualizing her."

Perhaps you missed my last sentence where I made the distinction that, if Whedon is indeed a adulterous power abuser, it means jack shit if he decided to make the sexism on the page less obvious.
 
So he had affairs and i feel bad for his exwife about that but this has nothing to do with feminism.

This changes nothing really how i think about Joss Whedon. This is just his private life.
 

BadAss2961

Member
I was never convinced by his whole feminist thing, but of course shit like this comes out when he's doing DCEU movies. lol
 

traveler

Not Wario
Her calling it ptsd is class privilege, imo.

As stated above, she was diagnosed with it; she didn't claim it out of nowhere. And a quick google reveals this definition for complex ptsd:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_post-traumatic_stress_disorder

Complex post-traumatic stress disorder (C-PTSD; also known as complex trauma disorder)[1] is a psychological disorder exhibiting features similar to borderline personality disorder (BPD) and post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), thought to occur as a result of repetitive, prolonged trauma involving harm or abandonment by a caregiver or other interpersonal relationships with an uneven power dynamic. C-PTSD is associated with sexual, emotional or physical abuse or neglect in childhood, intimate partner violence, victims of kidnapping and hostage situations, indentured servants, slavery, sweatshop workers, prisoners of war, bullying, concentration camp survivors, and defectors of cults or cult-like organizations.[2] Situations involving captivity/entrapment (a situation lacking a viable escape route for the victim or a perception of such) can lead to C-PTSD-like symptoms, which include prolonged feelings of terror, worthlessness, helplessness, and deformation of one's identity and sense of self.[3]

What she's experienced seems like it'd fit in pretty well as a catalyst given that definition.
 
So he had affairs and i feel bad for his exwife about that but this has nothing to do with feminism.

This changes nothing really how i think about Joss Whedon. This is just his private life.

It's his private life, sure, but if he's a power abuser and a cheater, that 100% makes me think less of him.
 
It looks hypocritical to say you respect women when you repeatedly and habitually disrespect the one woman you committed to hold above all others.
Honestly, he sounds like a guy who failed to live up to his own values. And reading her post, it sounds like he realizes that on some level, though he may or may not recognize how much it hurt her. He's definitely not the first.
 
Perhaps you missed my last sentence where I made the distinction that, if Whedon is indeed a adulterous power abuser, it means jack shit if he decided to make the sexism on the page less obvious.

You didn't mention that and I'm not even talking about that. I'm saying people put stuff down to get something on the page and then change it to what they actually want to say.
 

Aizo

Banned
No one's even accusing him of abusing his power ...
That's something people came up with in this thread
No one is accusing him, except all the people in the thread? I don't get it.

The statement about his position and all the young, aggressive women reads to many like an abuse of power.
Hypothetically, anyway.
 
Based on a quick browse of twitter, there are absolutely people who think this is because he's making DC movies now.

2017 is weird.

I don't know about Twitter, but the sentiment isn't exactly incorrect. Although it's not a DC thing as it is airing the baggage when it'd get the most exposure, which happens to coincide with his recent jobs working in DC properties. Had it come out in 2016 it'd naturally be less newsworthy.

Like how stories of Johnny Depp being a mess coming out near his big movies.
 

Kinyou

Member
No one is accusing him, except all the people in the thread? I don't get it.

The statement about his position and all the young, aggressive women reads to many like an abuse of power.
Hypothetically, anyway.
I mean accusations by people who actually know the situation, people involved etc. What people came up with in this thread is pure conjecture.
 
I mean accusations by people who actually know the situation, people involved etc. What people came up with in this thread is pure conjecture.

Pretty much. And thats why the only thing i read here is that he cheated on his wife since the rest in this thread are assumptions.
 
I think that Wonder Woman script has more to say about his feminism than his cheating.

If a self-professed feminist sleeps with a man that she knows is married, does that mean her ideas on equality of the sexes ate null and void or that she's now a hypocrite?
 

Shredderi

Member
I really don't know a lot about this Joss guy. I know he did Firefly which I loved. I've heard his name dropped a few times in marvel context. Sucks if it's true he cheated on his wife so much. I hate cheaters, especially serial cheaters.
 
I always felt that it was obvious for years the guy was full of shit.

His WW script solidified it.

Now this confirms it.

I imagine most dudes who loudly proclaim how feminist they are are like that solely to get in women's pants.

There's a reason its called White Knighting:

internet_white_knight_colored_4350.jpg
 

border

Member
It's so bizarre to me that people are willing to hang this guy out to dry over an unproduced Wonder Woman script he may or may not have written.........rather than examine the 100+ hours of entertainment he's written, directed, and/or produced.
 

rudger

Member
I'm glad I'm not the only one taking issue with the claim that being a piece of shit philanderer makes you not a feminist.

But the cat's out of the bag on his cheating now. If there are stories of him abusing his power for sexual favors (whether he perceived it that way or not), in sure we will hear about it soon enough.
 

riotous

Banned
I don't get the fuss over the wonder woman script; it's terrible.. but the one character is clearly supposed to be put in a bad light (the way he's talking about women) and the final product had plenty of scenes of men (and women) gawking at the beauty of Wonder Woman.

It's cringey from writing sense, but.. meh to the freakout over it personally.
 

LiK

Member
I'm not particularly interested in who Whedon had sex with, or what his ex-wife thinks of him. I don't think either of these things is any of my business, and I'm neither shocked, nor particularly surprised that Whedon cheated repeatedly on his wife. Nor does it make me think his opinions were wrong, because he didn't live up to his own ideals. Very few people do.

.
 
Love lives of folks like this interests me not at all, but I do feel sad that she felt the need to blast the father of her children so publicly like this. Google says that their eldest is 15ish, that has got to be amazingly shitty to be exposed to all of this at that age.
 

traveler

Not Wario
Those are the parts he highlighted.

15 years of affairs + 5 years of living with the man still married knowing about the affairs = "repetitive, prolonged trauma involving harm or abandonment by a caregiver or other interpersonal relationships with an uneven power dynamic"

This was inflicted by her husband = "emotional abuse" at the hands of an "intimate partner"

Those 5 years spent trying to figure out how to live her life = "a situation lacking a viable escape route for the victim or a perception of such" She even specifically calls her divorce being "free", an escape at last from a horrible situation.

And the "prolonged sense of worthlessness" was an inference made by me, but given how long she was in that situation, I'm willing to guess she experienced it, judging by her language here.

You picked the one piece of text I bolded (which was left bolded because I wished to highlight the points on either side of it) that doesn't fit the situation and ignored the rest.

Love lives of folks like this interests me not at all, but I do feel sad that she felt the need to blast the father of her children so publicly like this. Google says that their eldest is 15ish, that has got to be amazingly shitty to be exposed to all of this at that age.

That's some pretty choice victim blaming. You feel sorry she blasted him, but not sorry he's abused her for so long and tried to keep them in an "illusion" of a marriage? What the hell?
 

Cheerilee

Member
I'm glad I'm not the only one taking issue with the claim that being a piece of shit philanderer makes you not a feminist.

I think the problem is that Whedon himself (if we are to believe his ex-wife's version of events) said that it does.

Whedon surrounded himself with women, and this was a concern to his wife, until Whedon told her that he wasn't being a horndog, it's just that "as a feminist" he prefers the company of women, because women are superior. "As a feminist" he doesn't lust after women (except for his wife), all he does is admire and respect them. And she was dumb enough to believe that.

And Whedon himself apparently believed it was true, because he surrounded himself with pussy, and then as soon as he started feeling horny, he dismissed that reaction as a horrible sudden curse, "a disease".
 
I think the problem is that Whedon himself (if we are to believe his ex-wife's version of events) said that it does.

Whedon surrounded himself with women, and this was a concern to his wife, until Whedon told her that he wasn't being a horndog, it's just that "as a feminist" he prefers the company of women, because women are superior. "As a feminist" he doesn't lust after women (except for his wife), all he does is admire and respect them. And she was dumb enough to believe that.

And Whedon himself apparently believed it was true, because he surrounded himself with pussy, and then as soon as he started feeling horny, he dismissed that reaction as a horrible sudden curse, "a disease".

Yeah.

We, the public, can debate our own personal views on feminism all we want, but when the guy invalidates his own opinion but says nothing is wrong with it, there's really no debate left on whether or not he's a shit.
 
That's some pretty choice victim blaming. You feel sorry she blasted him, but not sorry he's abused her for so long and tried to keep them in an "illusion" of a marriage? What the hell?

I said I was sorry that she felt the need to do this, meaning that I'm sorry that whatever trauma she feels she suffered led her to air this publicly. This sort of blasting isn't that common even for public figures. Your reading into my phrase of "felt the need" is telling.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Disappointing and makes me think less of him for sure. Still think Firefly is the greatest TV ever its feminism is still relevant, but yeah. :\
Dude had a hard-on for punishing his women characters whenever they had sex.
Huh? Fireflies has 3 sexually active female leads who don't "get punished for having sex"... this argument is dumb and has no basis.
 

Cmerrill

You don't need to be empathetic towards me.
I'm not particularly interested in who Whedon had sex with, or what his ex-wife thinks of him. I don't think either of these things is any of my business, and I'm neither shocked, nor particularly surprised that Whedon cheated repeatedly on his wife. Nor does it make me think his opinions were wrong, because he didn't live up to his own ideals. Very few people do.

Yep, took the words right out of my mouth.
 
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