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Why don't conspiracy theorists think conspiracy theories are a conspiracy?

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H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
I always enjoy talking with conspiracy theory nuts because its such a foolish thought process. Apparently a small group of people happen to know about the biggest cover ups, shady dealings and other conspiratorial knowledge that apparently no one else is privy to or unaware. Or the government/secret organization are aware and actively covering up said conspiracy... except for all the conspiracy theorists bull shitting about said conspiracy over the internet.

That or I ask them what conspiracy theories have actually been exposed and proven to be reality and most of them trip over themselves to tell me even more bull shit as if that somehow makes a conspiracy proven and true to the world. The funny thing is that there were actual exposed conspiracies in the past and even not too long ago but they had nothing to do with lizard people, Stanley Kubrick faking the moon landing, vaccines causing autism or any of the other bull shit people peddle online.
 
V

vonStirlitz

Unconfirmed Member
Snowybreak said:
9/11 theorists always aggravated me because they're literally trying to find a complicated explanation for something that can be explained with the thought that maybe, just maybe, the government is really just that incompetent sometimes.
Click to expand...

It's also a quasi religious impulse to conspiracy theorists, where the theorists need to believe there is a greater agency at play, that things can't just be random, that the world has to be more exciting or mysterious than it really is and that there is a puppet master behind everything.

It's modern religion. Metaphysics.
 
S

Snowybreak

Member
vonStirlitz said:
It's also a quasi religious impulse to conspiracy theorists, where the theorists need to believe there is a greater agency at play, that things can't just be random, that the world has to be more exciting or mysterious than it really is and that there is a puppet master behind everything.

It's modern religion. Metaphysics.
Click to expand...

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and not a super-secret cigar-shaped interstellar transmission device.
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
vonStirlitz said:
It's also a quasi religious impulse to conspiracy theorists, where the theorists need to believe there is a greater agency at play, that things can't just be random, that the world has to be more exciting or mysterious than it really is and that there is a puppet master behind everything.

It's modern religion. Metaphysics.
Click to expand...

So Occam's Razor is like the antichrist to the church of conspiracy theory.
 
E

Exis

Member
51xqn3dtNEL._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
Click to expand...

Well as a dork that loves UFO's and conspiracy theories I highly suggest this book. It tells the story of the government basically creating a conspiracy theory that took off in UFO circles and ruined a guy.
 
L

Lomax

Member
Wasn't that essentially the plot of the movie Conspiracy Theory? They made him think he was crazy to cover up the stuff he actually did uncover.

But yeah, disinformation is a thing, I think most conspiracy nuts of all levels know that.
 
Z

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
Reverend Funk said:
In case the title gets cut off for being too long
Why don't conspiracy theorists think conspiracy theories are a conspiracy? (couldn't think of a better title)
It would make sense right? Conspiracy theories distract from real things going on, doesn't that make them a conspiracy theory? Just some food for thought.
Click to expand...

Well, I think there actually is some level of awareness of this.

Usually conspiracy theorists aren't 100% sure of what the exact conspiracy is, and therefore sometimes there is awareness that a conspiracy theory may have actually been put forward as a means of distraction/misinformation (for a different conspiracy theory).

Edit: ^ beaten by Lomax.
 
V

Vincent Grayson

Member
I've put this question to my conspiracy theory-loving friend (seriously, this dude seems to believe literally every conspiracy) and his response was basically that no, the information he has is clearly based in reality. The fringe people can't have been compromised, because they sacrifice legit careers to talk about whatever "truth" they've found.

I dunno, as others have said, there's not a lot of logic to it. He won't even believe me when I point out that all these fringe people with websites and books and fuckloads of ads and donate buttons are all blatantly out for money.
 
Z

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
The Dink said:
Actually, some do. They say the planes that people saw were holograms. No, I'm serious. That's what they say. It's mental.
Click to expand...

Well the cruise missile into the Pentagon is pretty standard fare for 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

Honestly the thing that has always bothered me about 9/11 was the WTC 7 collapse. Unless I'm mistaken there is a general lack of in depth explanation for it's collapse, the owner of the building said they "pulled" the building but later said there was no controlled demo, and it sure as hell looks like demo charges going up the side of it bring it down on the video of it's collapse.

I know there is this report on it: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a3524/4278874/

But office furnishings? Really? Fires like that (not of as a result of a massive jet liner crashing into it), have never brought down a building of that size.

And it took 7 years for this report to come out? In no way does this prove any sort of larger conspiracy, but I think maybe they did demo the building because of structural damage, but were concerned about saying that at the time, for who knows what reasons (creating suspicion? insurance? I don't know).

Or yeah maybe it did just burn down.

Edit: I have never seen this report until now. Yeah I'm cool with the official explanation. Mystery solved!
 
Y

You Are Viewtiful

Member
There were dudes on another forum I go on that said they don't believe in Politifact and Snopes because they're run by George Soros... I had zero idea how to respond. The thing about conspiracy theories is that you usually can't disprove them, but there's no proof behind them in the first place. It's just something people believe in because they want to believe in it. It provides some sort of protection/bubble, IDK.
 
DiscoJer

DiscoJer

Member
Exis said:
Well as a dork that loves UFO's and conspiracy theories I highly suggest this book. It tells the story of the government basically creating a conspiracy theory that took off in UFO circles and ruined a guy.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was going to mention this.

I would also recommend Jacques Vallee's Revelations
 
V

Vincent Grayson

Member
You Are Viewtiful said:
There were dudes on another forum I go on that said they don't believe in Politifact and Snopes because they're run by George Soros... I had zero idea how to respond. The thing about conspiracy theories is that you usually can't disprove them, but there's no proof to them at all in the first place. It's just something people believe because they want to believe, it provides some sort of protection/bubble, IDK.
Click to expand...

Well yeah, right? It's convenient that what reality looks like, and what "proves" a conspiracy true are often one and the same.

Like, suppose vaccines are dangerous, and the CDC is covering it all up. Them destroying the career of a doctor who dares to tell the "truth" looks exactly like it would if said doctor was a charlatan and disregarding good science while peddling falsehoods.

To the conspiracy theorist mind, whichever scenario sounds the most like what an evil secret world organization would do is obviously the correct one, because they already "know" that said organization exists and is the cause of seemingly all conspiracy theories.

Between what I've seen online, and the shit my friend tells me, it really feels like the modern conspiracy theorist basically has to believe everything or nothing. It's all been tied together by people like Alex Jones, and doubt over anything leads to the community taking you to task. It is, in many ways, fundamentally identical to cults and religion in general.

In fact, I remember him once telling me how refreshing it was to talk to religious people about his beliefs, because they were often more receptive to the things he was saying than his more "rational"/skeptical friends.

As my friend has sunk deeper into this stuff, I've also noticed he argues more and more with arguments taken word for word from elsewhere, either online, or in someone's podcast or fringe publication. He no longer seems capable of even attempting to defend his beliefs without resorting to (sometimes literally) cutting and pasting blocks of text.
 
I

innervision961

Member
Why do conspiracy theorists love the billionaire who threatens American cities to send in "The Fed". Why do they love the president who is seeking to expand and militarize a police force who wants to stop and frisk the entire country in the name of "safe borders". Why do they love the guy who wants to spend billions on a fortress and build massive detention centers? Or the guy who is all in for private prison systems. Or actively trying to destroy the first amendment and free press. Or the guy who is filling his cabinet with the ultra rich and military. Who knows, but now I'm sad.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
Reverend Funk said:
In case the title gets cut off for being too long
Why don't conspiracy theorists think conspiracy theories are a conspiracy? (couldn't think of a better title)
It would make sense right? Conspiracy theories distract from real things going on, doesn't that make them a conspiracy theory? Just some food for thought.
Click to expand...

Fundamentally, conspiracy theories are about a willful effort to project a more exciting and interesting reality onto the world. That's sort of the hallmark of all the big ones: they posit a world where there's all sorts of weird, exciting stuff that you just don't quite get to see.

A conspiracy theory that posits a less interesting and exciting world fails by necessity.
 
C

commedieu

Banned
Exis said:
Well as a dork that loves UFO's and conspiracy theories I highly suggest this book. It tells the story of the government basically creating a conspiracy theory that took off in UFO circles and ruined a guy.
Click to expand...

Yep. Sad shit, they went in on him. This is precisely what op is about. I mentioned it earlier. But it's getting in the way of the luls, so. Ah well.
 
D

drspeedy

Member
innervision961 said:
Why do conspiracy theorists love the billionaire who threatens American cities to send in "The Fed". Why do they love the president who is seeking to expand and militarize a police force who wants to stop and frisk the entire country in the name of "safe borders". Why do they love the guy who wants to spend billions on a fortress and build massive detention centers? Or the guy who is all in for private prison systems. Or actively trying to destroy the first amendment and free press. Or the guy who is filling his cabinet with the ultra rich and military. Who knows, but now I'm sad.
Click to expand...

They're programmed to believe the non-believers; after decades of hearing from the fringe that "they have all the answers -but have to be careful what they share" they honestly began to feel that any fact was fiction and vice versa.

The 'war on for your mind' has already been concluded and won, but most never knew it happened and won't be able to understand that fact for decades more, if ever.
 
C

Caddywompus

Member
Don't most conspiracy theories end up going down this rabbit hole in one way or another?

When the popular Lone Gun theory leads to Multiple shooters on the Grassy Knoll leads to Mafia hired by the CIA funded by Russia and Cubans whatever explanation you want to keep layering on attempting to explain what appears on the surface to not add up.
 
M

M3d10n

Member
Yeah, I don't get how people can say climate change is a hoax put in place by a conspiracy ran by vague interests that would take the involvement of thousands of people and be incredibly hard to keep going, but they never stop to consider the possibility of climate change denial being a conspiracy itself, one which is far more beneficial for the interests behind it and much simpler to run.
 
K

Klocker

Member
vonStirlitz said:
It's also a quasi religious impulse to conspiracy theorists, where the theorists need to believe there is a greater agency at play, that things can't just be random, that the world has to be more exciting or mysterious than it really is and that there is a puppet master behind everything.

It's modern religion. Metaphysics.
Click to expand...

Hmm, good theory

Makes sense
 
M

Malfunky

Member
I work with a guy who is convinced of the Annunaki/Nibiru stuff and every time he says I'm being trolled by people who are paid by the government, I ask him how he's sure he's not being trolled himself.

All the people who have convinced him that they're right tell him that everyone else is wrong, that they have the answers, that they are the real news. They alone have a monopoly on truth because everything else is driven for the sole purpose of distracting and misleading you. I'll grant someone the premise that "mainstream media" is poor -- because a lot of media is truly garbage, sure. But when the scientific and academic community are in complete disagreement with you, you've got a problem. But, then again, they're all in on it, too.

He's throwing his life away believing this shit. Looking at throwing his life savings away to get a house in Colorado because for some reason he thinks part of the world could survive a cataclysm like that. It really kinda fucking sucks, actually.
 
M

msdstc

Incredibly Naive
cwmartin said:
9/11 conspiracy theorists don't argue there were no planes...
Click to expand...

Yes they do. They argue that a cruise missile was used on the pentagon. Try again.

edit-
ZOONAMI said:
Well the cruise missile into the Pentagon is pretty standard fare for 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

Honestly the thing that has always bothered me about 9/11 was the WTC 7 collapse. Unless I'm mistaken there is a general lack of in depth explanation for it's collapse, the owner of the building said they "pulled" the building but later said there was no controlled demo, and it sure as hell looks like demo charges going up the side of it bring it down on the video of it's collapse.

I know there is this report on it: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a3524/4278874/

But office furnishings? Really? Fires like that (not of as a result of a massive jet liner crashing into it), have never brought down a building of that size.

And it took 7 years for this report to come out? In no way does this prove any sort of larger conspiracy, but I think maybe they did demo the building because of structural damage, but were concerned about saying that at the time, for who knows what reasons (creating suspicion? insurance? I don't know).

Or yeah maybe it did just burn down.

Edit: I have never seen this report until now. Yeah I'm cool with the official explanation. Mystery solved!
Click to expand...

Glad I saw the edit, but yeah there is actually a very thorough and clear explanation for why it caved the way it did, which essentially it was an internal domino effect which left the "shell" of the building standing for a few seconds which then also collapsed freely into itself. It's been debunked that it fell at "free-fall" speeds. Also the "pull it" line has been thoroughly explained as well, which is a term used by firefighters to get the hell out of the building and stop trying to salvage anything.
 
TheRedSnifit

TheRedSnifit

Member
They do. Pretty much any theory that's been debunked so hard that even they don't believe it will be marked by conspiracy theorists as a "false flag" to discredit conspiracy theorists.
 
S

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
mrkgoo said:
Since when did logic and sense play a role in conspiracy theories?
Click to expand...

Nicely put.

vonStirlitz said:
It's also a quasi religious impulse to conspiracy theorists, where the theorists need to believe there is a greater agency at play, that things can't just be random, that the world has to be more exciting or mysterious than it really is and that there is a puppet master behind everything.

It's modern religion. Metaphysics.
Click to expand...

Don't forgot the part about how 'special' the 'believers' are, their imperative to proselytise those who don't, and their general feeling of persecution by 'heretics'. Can't have a decent religion without those.
 
jono51

jono51

Banned
Plenty of people do? If you ever stop by /r/Conspiracy for example, pretty much every other day there is a thread on how flavor of the month theory X is actually just a distraction from real conspiracy, Y.
 
C

commedieu

Banned
This thread is just people patting themselves on their backs. Reminds me of earlier Hillary threads before she lost.

But anyway; Your intention op? As your concern has been addressed.

Any comment on the government promoting ufo sightings? As cited a few posts above with a book,and evidence on how and why this does happen? That's the interesting thing about this thread, witnessing the social conditioning to belittle any and all things "conspiracy." Op asks a genuine question and ignores all actual responses.

We have an example of what op mentioned above. The government promoted ufo conspiracies, to cover up development of black projects. Yet no one is discussing it. It's just a weird circle jerk over folks that you all believe are stupid. Which is fine, you win 7 GAF points, but as far as the discussion goes. Examples of what op has mentioned, in fact, have happened. So again. To answer op, and not thread shit with the fringiest shit, 'LOL HOLOGRAMZ!!!', these things do happen. And are documented. With that precident, most are aware of the possibility. See intelligence misinformation, and nurturing belief in ufos. All paid for with our taxes.

A lot is based on testimony. Which on one hand, condemns people to death in our court systems. But on the other, is up for discussion. You are free to make general statements, but the thread should note that such things do happen. I agree with op. But not for every instance of "conspiracy theory"
Like banks stealing Americans money. That didn't even have a counter reason. They just stole money from the ignorant and the minorities blatantly.
 
M

msdstc

Incredibly Naive
commedieu said:
This thread is just people patting themselves on their backs. Reminds me of earlier Hillary threads before she lost.

But anyway; Your intention op? As your concern has been addressed.

Any comment on the government promoting ufo sightings? As cited a few posts above with a book,and evidence on how and why this does happen? That's the interesting thing about this thread, witnessing the social conditioning to belittle any and all things "conspiracy." Op asks a genuine question and ignores all actual responses.

We have an example of what op mentioned above. The government promoted ufo conspiracies, to cover up development of black projects. Yet no one is discussing it. It's just a weird circle jerk over folks that you all believe are stupid. Which is fine, you win 7 GAF points, but as far as the discussion goes. Examples of what op has mentioned, in fact, have happened. So again. To answer op, and not thread shit with the fringiest shit, 'LOL HOLOGRAMZ!!!', these things do happen. And are documented. With that precident, most are aware of the possibility. See intelligence misinformation, and nurturing belief in ufos. All paid for with our taxes.

A lot is based on testimony. Which on one hand, condemns people to death in our court systems. But on the other, is up for discussion. You are free to make general statements, but the thread should note that such things do happen. I agree with op. But not for every instance of "conspiracy theory"
Like banks stealing Americans money. That didn't even have a counter reason. They just stole money from the ignorant and the minorities blatantly.
Click to expand...

witness testimony is a little more complex than that, for instance in the court of law, the integrity of that witness is always thoroughly examined and questioned.

That being said you're arguing over what essentially boils down to semantics. Yes actual conspiracies happen. It's pretty clear that the term "conspiracy theory" has developed a separate meaning as a catch all for insane theories regarding events such as 9/11, the moon landing, the Illuminati, satanic rituals, sandy hook, false flags, etc.
 
I

IC5

Member
Reverend Funk said:
In case the title gets cut off for being too long
Why don't conspiracy theorists think conspiracy theories are a conspiracy? (couldn't think of a better title)
It would make sense right? Conspiracy theories distract from real things going on, doesn't that make them a conspiracy theory? Just some food for thought.
Click to expand...

You gotta believe in sumthin, man. Otherwise, you just go crazy.
 
E

EASTC0AST_GH05T

Member
I am no conspiracy theorist but building 7 collapsing at free fall speeds with no planes at all hitting it has raised my eyebrow a bit. I can debunk every other theory regarding 9/11 except that one.
 
C

Captain Smoker

Member
Actually, I've read several posts on Facebook and other forums about government inventing conspiracy theories to make conspiracy theorists look crazy.


In the world of truthers everything is possible.
 
L

Lkr

Member
ZOONAMI said:
Well the cruise missile into the Pentagon is pretty standard fare for 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

Honestly the thing that has always bothered me about 9/11 was the WTC 7 collapse. Unless I'm mistaken there is a general lack of in depth explanation for it's collapse, the owner of the building said they "pulled" the building but later said there was no controlled demo, and it sure as hell looks like demo charges going up the side of it bring it down on the video of it's collapse.

I know there is this report on it: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/design/a3524/4278874/

But office furnishings? Really? Fires like that (not of as a result of a massive jet liner crashing into it), have never brought down a building of that size.

And it took 7 years for this report to come out? In no way does this prove any sort of larger conspiracy, but I think maybe they did demo the building because of structural damage, but were concerned about saying that at the time, for who knows what reasons (creating suspicion? insurance? I don't know).

Or yeah maybe it did just burn down.

Edit: I have never seen this report until now. Yeah I'm cool with the official explanation. Mystery solved!
Click to expand...
9/11 truthers use on the spot statements of people clearly in shock that buildings just collapsed as a way to prove that they "lie". In reality, people in power had to speak to calm everyone down before they knew anything themselves. So when they misspeak immediately after watching 2 100 story buildings fall, it's obvious they were lying to mislead the public and not that they had no idea what's going on.
The same argument is usually also used to discredit the official story by using the immediate headlines shown on tv. Before there was any confirmation or evidence that it was indeed a 747 that hit, the media had to report that SOMETHING hit the building, no one has any credible source on what it is yet. But the truthers seize this as the media and government lying because the news station said something when the news was first breaking that turned out to be wrong. It's fucking maddening. Of course CNN didn't know that a 747 hit when they went live a minute after the first plane hit, there was no fucking official confirmation because no one knew what was going on!
 
O

oneofthose

Banned
One conspiracy that turned out to be true is CIA's MK Ultra also with operation northwood how are the CIA still allowed to run they are pretty much a terrorist organization.
 
Z

Zaru

Member
jtb said:
Look at how conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones have been co-opted into broader white nationalist movement.
Click to expand...

I've seen people make conspiracy theories about Alex Jones being controlled opposition for conspiracy theories.
 
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