Arkam
Member
Every time I see this thread bumped I think there is some new info or something. And I'm always dissapointed.
You and me both.
Every time I see this thread bumped I think there is some new info or something. And I'm always dissapointed.
lol go play some more horizon, oh wait thats got night racing you dont want that
but seriously do you think they should just keep refining the graphics every game? is that whats most important? yea screw weather or night racing WE NEED MORE POLYGONS
Oh I am sure gaf would be very happy if it maintained Forza 4 levels and did not improve on anything regarding graphics. I am not saying no night/weather is a good thing, it certainly is a bad thing and I am personally disappointed, but if T10 did not improve the graphics this thread would have been on fire since day 1 (and not only now again - what a coincidence).
Actually no.i am talking about models, i think auto vista level models is way over the top for every car, its just to say hey look at us we have the highest detail cars in any game! a waste of resources for a sim, a racing sim is not about graphics, its about the racing experience..or it should be
You cant just have a percentage that makes sense.I would like to know what percentage of development time as been spent on Autovista. Any guesses ?
Actually no.
The complexity of car modelling is a plus to the simulation side.
And a prerequisite to add more simulation depth and precision (whether you do it or not)
is night time really all that more demanding? i get around the same framerate at nightime on various PC sims. but if so why not lower AA and shadow resolution? i'm sure they could get it right if they wanted to its just not their highest priority which i think it should be.
i really cant believe you'd rather have no weather/night at all then a work in progress model to build off of, at least weather is in GT5 and they can hopefully improve it over time, forza still hasnt even got it yet, its unbelievable to me
but if night is more demanding obviously there will always have to be compromises due to limited console hardware. and i think things like aliasing would be less noticeable at night time. and tbh i'd rather fm4 had the same graphics as 3 and they optimised it to run solid in weather/night, but no they had to push the graphics some more because thats more important to most gamers it seemsNight is demanding if you want to do it right, since you suddenly have up to 32 different light sources at the same time. ¿Lower AA and shadow resolution? I can't see the AA in FM4 being lower than the already low 2x, and shadow resolution isn't that great to lower it even more as well.
Anyway, what is really demanding (and that's what I was talking about the whole time) is weather effects properly done. People don't seem to realise that FM4 was taking advantadge of every last drop of power the 360 could offer while improving a bit the graphics, and it's quite easy to tell where they had to cut to expand the grid to 12-16 cars (trees were less detailed, some elements present on the tracks from FM3 were removed, less people on the stands...). It just wasn't possible to add night and weather without doing a drastic graphical downgrade that would had people bitching and moaning because the game suddenly looked worse than FM3.
So when can we expect that "big" news this week? Did they give any hints as to when during the week we'll be hearing about it?
The "want to get it perfect" excuse by Turn 10 is an utter cop out. No one should accept that excuse, because nothing is perfect about Forza, or any game for that matter.
but if night is more demanding obviously there will always have to be compromises due to limited console hardware. and i think things like aliasing would be less noticeable at night time. and tbh i'd rather fm4 had the same graphics as 3 and they optimised it to run solid in weather/night, but no they had to push the graphics some more because thats more important to most gamers it seems
Funny that it was perfectly good enough for GT fans for the many years that the series didn't have the same features or damage.
They didn't push the graphics, that's what I said on the last message. They CUT the graphics to include twice the cars on track while using tricks to make the game look good and not worse than FM3. It just wasn't possible to make the game with "the same graphics as 3" while having night and weather at a steady 60 fps with v-sync, at least not with 12-16 cars on track. They could have left 8 tracks, but then people would have complained that GT5 had twice the cars on track, it's a no win situation.
I always found this very funny. It seems that Forza has the obligation to have any feature that GT decides to include, but not the other way around, and GT needs more than "better sounds and a livery editor" to be on par as Forza as a game, I think.
They are spending so many resources on Autovista cars and not enough on other features. At least, that's what it seems.Maybe they shouldnt have refined so much.........
lol
This thread, man.
but forza 4 had much better lighting which obviously used more power. and i disagree about GT not being on par with forza, each have their pros and cons but nothing in forza comes close to racing on the best nurburgring in gaming on dynamic time of day/weather
Better lighting does not necessarily consume more power, actually IBL consumes LESS power than having two lighting engines like they did in FM3 (one for the cars and one for the track, hence why sometimes it looked like the cars didn't belong in the envinroment).
About what you say of GT5, that's cherry picking the best while ignoring the rest of the game, since the situation you are pointing out it's not representative of the whole game: Racing on the Ring with premium cars is the best the game can offer, but then a race on Laguna Seca with standard cars looks like something that belongs in a PS2 game. I could say that nothing in GT comes close to organizing a racing series where every driver can customize his car (with aero parts or a livery) for a true racing series feel.
in the end..forza is more consistent in its quality, but GT5s highs are much higher
fair enough about the lighting
sure the standard cars, UI and lack of customisation sucks but whats most important to me in a racing sim is the core driving experience, and i think GT5 has forza beat there. obviously my forza experience will always be limited because i refuse to buy a second wheel just because microsoft wont let me use my g25, but even with a gamepad i find GT5 to simulate driving characteristics more accurately. in the end..forza is more consistent in its quality, but GT5s highs are much higher
Sorry if that questions has already been posted elsewhere, but do we have new information about G27 compatibility?
Someone make another vs thread for fuck's sake.
And when I said that main problem is how every criticism towards Forza gets *defended* by highlighting theorethical shortcomings of GT series by very FM players, I was told I am delusional.
Turn10 is very happy with you Sparks.
And when I said that main problem is how every criticism towards Forza gets *defended* by highlighting theorethical shortcomings of GT series by very FM players, I was told I am delusional.
Turn10 is very happy with you Sparks.
What you say about the core driving experience is subjective. Lots of people think otherwise, and the tire simulation in FM4 is better than the one in GT5, and that's not subjective, that's a fact and I could link you to a couple of threads on GTplanet where this has been discussed over pages and pages. GT5 fails to properly simulate basic characteristics like torque steer, or accounting for the different tire widths when simulating lateral grip. You could argue that GT5 "feels" more realistic (which again, is something subjective), but GT5's simulation is far from being as good as FM4. GT6 (judging by the Academy demo) seems to have taken a couple of steps in the right direction, specially regarding the tire simulation.
In the end is like you put it: GT5 highs are better than FM4, but FM4 is far more consistent and polished, since GT5 lows are far worse than anything you could find on FM4, and this reflects the different "philosophies" of both teams. To me, a game with 80 % of content coming from the previous generation is inexcusable, as good as its highs are, because those highs represent a small portion of the game, not the whole product, and this is something really obvious if you play the main career on GT5.
Pretty sure it won't be compatible since Microsoft is using XID protocol instead of HID protocol once again.
what good is accurate tire simulation if you cannot fully disable assists unless youre using a steering wheel? (assists still marginally active in fm4 even when manually switched off)
are you saying we should get a gimped physics engine for the standard control methid just so people who shouldnt be turning off assists can still get around the track?What good is accurate tire simulation if you're using a controller?
are you saying we should get a gimped physics engine for the standard control methid just so people who shouldnt be turning off assists can still get around the track?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UmJLyL2JXNA
is that supposed to be a good thing? (also, hi, you never did ask for your account details after the psn exploit demo years ago via twitter)You're not getting a gimped physics engine, you're getting controller aids.
You're not getting a gimped physics engine, you're getting controller aids.
Yep, its funny how people don't even realize this. This is a Forza thread and if people bring up GT in a positive light why can't it be brought up in a negative way also. Blows my mind how some people think sometimes.I think if people come into the thread bashing Forza by bringing up GT, it's pretty hypocritical to point out people who respond saying GT has faults as well.
I think the versus thread is this way guys....
Sorry if that questions has already been posted elsewhere, but do we have new information about G27 compatibility?
Doesn't exist. We need a new one. ASAP.
we can't have a Vs thread when Forza 5 isn't even out yet (or GT6 if that is being used too).
God, when they are both out the Vs thread will be horrible. Next gen Vs current gen will just cloudy the water and make meaningful discussion even more unlikely.
Yeah.. those GT threads with a bunch of Forza fans ruining it.
expect that the weight of the comparison will be like always:
-photomode, where gt will probably be able to provide better results than forza
-night/rain comparisons, where forza will have none again.
everything else? who gives a shit! right?
Screw the ring, time and money would be better blown elsewhere imo.
I'm almost certain GT6 will have the better physics, handling and suspension feedback. I think GT5 already has Forza beat in those departments. I know Polyphony have re done the entire tyre simulation for GT6, but the demo has no tyre degradation so it's impossible to judge.
This is debateable because Forza and GT take a different approach to the matter: In GT you feel all the movements of the car compensating for the lack of feedback you would have through the seat, while in Forza you just feel what you would feel through the steering wheel/column in real life.better WHEEL feedback? probably, yes.
So... yeah. Did anything come of this? Its hard to parse this thread sometimes.Big news huh, maybe some new track announcements?
well, maybe then I should change profession and do sim racing testing, if you say that the majority of the supposedly <<specialized>> people say that for physics.Dude, most Sim racing mags, outlets and channels agree that GT5 has the better physics. Even lap times etc in like for like vehicles is far more accurate in GT compared to Forza. I'm surprised you believe what you do.
it is debatable, but it is something I can accept as VALID/correct argument.This is debateable because Forza and GT take a different approach to the matter: In GT you feel all the movements of the car compensating for the lack of feedback you would have through the seat, while in Forza you just feel what you would feel through the steering wheel/column in real life.