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Madden 18 is out very soon and there are few gameplay videos... Is that troubling?

T

The Albatross

Member
Vandiger said:
Buying what looks like the same game year after year? Yeah. Competition generates innovation simple as that, unfortunately there are not many viable options since making a football game without NFL branding is not worth it.
Click to expand...

I think that every person who plays football videogames wishes that the NFL still sold its license to multiple developers. I do the Madden OTs every year, play a shit load of Madden, both love and hate the game, but I wish to hell there were multiple football games. Every fan of the series wishes that there were.

But the fact is if all of these people who love NFL 2K5 today and talk about NFL 2K5 today talked about it as much in 2004 when that game came out, SegaSports/2K sports wouldn't have had to firesale their game that year, and then the NFL wouldn't have approached EA first about a solitary license, and then maybe Sega/2K would have been in a position to outbid EA for the NFL license, and then we'd be talking about how shitty NFL 2K18 is (which btw, not everything 2K makes turns to gold, they bought the MLB 3rd party license and proceeded to make such buggy, shit games that they just canceled it and now there's no 3rd party baseball game). 2K5 was a great game, as was Madden 2005, Madden went to shit from X360 2006->2011, but it's been a steadily improved product for the last 5 years, year over year getting better and better. It's still sad for football fans that there were effectively 5 lost years of the game, and the game didn't improve for almost a whole generation, but they righted the ship and started taking it in the right direction.

Engendering such personal hatred to call people "sheep" for buying a product that they like is so small and petty, if you and other people had bought ESPN 2K4 13+ years ago, then maybe the conversation would be different... But you didn't, so here we are.

Also, Madden has been a pretty good game for at least 3 years. Not without criticism for sure (and I'm one of the first to criticize) but, really, if you're going to go into a Madden thread and just troll about NFL 2K5 and people who buy Madden... why even bother? Like, don't you have anything better to do? There are a lot of series that I don't play or understand... Persona, Dynasty Warriors, Professor Layton, Walking Dead, Yugioh, DragonBall Z, etc., and those games all look pretty much the same to me every year, but I figure peopel buy them because they enjoy them for reasons that I don't. It's how consumerism works.

ANd, also, it's not the same game every year. You might not care about blocking assignments, identifying the Mike linebacker, how to pivot an offense based on the position of the 2nd strong side defender, how to attack hook zones, how cover 2 opens up intermediary out routes, how cover 3 can be attacked by going to the post, how to counter act cross-field man assignments cheese (or on defense how to stop drags), how to counter-act or attack nano blitzing, but some people do. Doesn't make them sheep for looking forward to these improvements.
 
D

digitalrelic

Banned
Vandiger said:
Buying what looks like the same game year after year? Yeah. Competition generates innovation simple as that, unfortunately there are not many viable options since making a football game without NFL branding is not worth it.
Click to expand...

You could say the same thing about any sports game. NBA 2K18 looks a lot like NBA 2K17 which looks a lot like NBA 2K16. MLB The Show 17 looks a lot like MLB The Show 16 which looks a lot like MLB The Show 15. NHL 18 looks a lot like NHL 17 looks a lot like NHL 16. And yes, even NFL 2K5 looks a lot like the NFL 2K games that came before it.

So yes, the casual drive-by folks that take a look at a 30 second trailer can easily say "MADDEN IS THE SAME EVERY YEAR!!!!11", but the people who actually play every year, and put in dozens if not hundreds of hours, can appreciate that pretty much every game is distinctively different from the past entries. I think that Madden NFL 17 was one of the best Madden's ever, and I'm really looking forward to this new one.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
It's not just sports games.

You could say the same thing about almost any series.

Dark Souls
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Dark Souls 2
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Dark Souls 3
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Seriously why do sheep buy this game? It looks like the same game every year just walking through tunnels with a torch... All they did was change the camera angle and improve the graphics a little

...

But for some reason it's a compelling argument that "sports games are just a roster update every year... Looks like it's still just 11 on 11 football"
 
MrS

MrS

Banned
jonscrambler said:
don't need to respond to these drive by trolls, if you play Madden every year, unless you're a very casual player, you know there's big difference every year in zone/man coverage, blocking, running, what plays/adjustments are good , what moves are good
Click to expand...
Spot on and it's the same with FIFA haters. EA Sports can't catch a break.
 
S

Saganator

Member
The Albatross said:
Commentary is waaaay better in Madden lately. IT's a million times better than it was 2 years ago, the new studio guys they have are way better because they're inexpensive and they put in a ton more commentary. Also the live updates throughout the year were a huge addition to the game, and in M'18 they're finally adding it to franchise (Something they left out intentionally last year).
Click to expand...

Guess it's just me then. The way the play by play guy ends some of his sentences really grates me for some reason. The color commentary is pretty good, though. If I get the game, I'll probably end up turning off commentary like I've been doing for MLB The Show.
 
I

I H8 Memes

Member
I like that people keep defending this year after year, thus causing themselves to never really get a better game. They should rename it to masochism 18.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
I H8 Memes said:
I like that people keep defending this year after year, thus causing themselves to never really get a better game. They should rename it to masochism 18.
Click to expand...

Defending what again?

I levy a ton of constructive criticism on Madden every year, but the "lol no NFL 2K5 no buy" is the definition of insanity, "doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results"
 
K

KaYotiX

Banned
Its 2017 and the 2k defence force still in every Madden thread.

They had a shot with All Pro Football and it was garbage. Get over it already.

From what I've seen so far it looks like a lot more polished version of 17. Can't wait till it's on EA Access so I can try it out.
 
I

IcyRhythms

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
Apf was a high res 2k5. If NFL 2k existed today you'd see what you see with nba: a game driven by great animations at the sacrifice of control, broken or non existent online franchise and vc, vc, vc!
Click to expand...

I really don't care about online franchise. As long as I can play against a few of my friends and family, I'm good. I'll gladly sacrifice a little bit of the control in a sports sim for a more authentic experience.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
IcyRhythms said:
I really don't care about online franchise. As long as I can play against a few of my friends and family, I'm good. I'll gladly sacrifice a little bit of the control in a sports sim for a more authentic experience.
Click to expand...

And there's nothing wrong with preferring presentation/graphics over gameplay control/franchise features. My point over and over in these threads is that madden isnt some terrible game and it is light years ahead of 2k (current 2k) with regards to online features.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
Nice video of some of the sim gameplay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoemQRNX5_0

Best clip from this is seeing Trevor Simian miss a bunch of throws. On the first couple drives he just misses a few open WRs, which I like to see. Even his big 3rd down conversion on the 2nd or 3rd drive is more or less a miracle diving catch.

Some stupid CPU playcall decisions though... 1:49 left in the half and they're at the opposing 44 yard line and they opt to kick the FG in the snow. It's short by about 5 yards which is fine, whatever, but when you're down 6-0, no team would do that... they'd definitely punt the ball. So it sets the other guy up with a very short field with 1:40 left, where Oakland also gets the ball after the half.
 
jobber

jobber

Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
Sports games have turned to Viral Marketing. They rather pay some youtube slobs to come play the game in their studios, hold the footage until 2 weeks before launch, then let the footage "leak" on youtube. 2K did the same thing. It's a very awful way to go about promoting a game. Especially one with a new engine..which looks the same game as the previous engine.

At least the NBA Live team has done a better job with marketing and even has a demo coming out.
 
J

JABEE

Member
Coverage of new video games in general are moving towards the model "jobber" is talking about.

Bethesda doesn't send out review copies anymore.

I feel like independent video games coverage from "traditional" websites will continue to shrink in favor of amateur YouTubers who are much easier to control.

YouTube Channels mean the same or more to people than the press. The value of the games press has been depressed with the broad variety of YouTube personalities.

Toss some guy a free trip to California, a hat, and sometimes a little payola. You just paid for positive coverage of your game. If the YouTuber doesn't play ball, drop them.

This isn't to say PR hasn't been nurturing dependency with traditional press forever through cover stories, ad buys, etc. It's not an outright power play, but it's about "the implication."

Every one thinks they control the message more without the press. The only reason companies go to the press is because they have the platform and the eyes.

You see this with pro sports teams. Everyone has their own team site, social media and editorial/video content team. Same you will see with PSBlog and Major Nelson.

The older, skilled guys who used to be EICs at magazines get poached by the companies they cover.

For a company like EA or Bethesda, they have big enough properties that they don't have to be as nice to the press with access. Same with leagues like the NFL.

The NHL on the other hand wants all the press they can get. They have their own sites, but they are much slower to cut-out the independent press. The press gets people excited about the team and generate interest.

NHL teams rely on asses in seats to make money more-so than the NFL with their giant TV deal.

Summary: The independent press is shrinking in favor of company controlled media dumps and video content. Madden and other huge franchises that people buy no matter what will continue to tighten the reigns on their PR machine.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
JABEE said:
Coverage of new video games in general are moving towards the model "jobber" is talking about.

Bethesda doesn't send out review copies anymore.

I feel like independent video games coverage from "traditional" websites will continue to shrink in favor of amateur YouTubers who are much easier to control.

YouTube Channels mean the same or more to people than the press. The value of the games press has been depressed with the broad variety of YouTube personalities.

Toss some guy a free trip to California, a hat, and sometimes a little payola. You just paid for positive coverage of your game. If the YouTuber doesn't play ball, drop them.

This isn't to say PR hasn't been nurturing dependency with traditional press forever through cover stories, ad buys, etc. It's not an outright power play, but it's about "the implication."

Every one thinks they control the message more without the press. The only reason companies go to the press is because they have the platform and the eyes.

You see this with pro sports teams. Everyone has their own team site, social media and editorial/video content team. Same you will see with PSBlog and Major Nelson.

The older, skilled guys who used to be EICs at magazines get poached by the companies they cover.

For a company like EA or Bethesda, they have big enough properties that they don't have to be as nice to the press with access. Same with leagues like the NFL.

The NHL on the other hand wants all the press they can get. They have their own sites, but they are much slower to cut-out the independent press. The press gets people excited about the team and generate interest.

NHL teams rely on asses in seats to make money more-so than the NFL with their giant TV deal.

Summary: The independent press is shrinking in favor of company controlled media dumps and video content. Madden and other huge franchises that people buy no matter what will continue to tighten the reigns on their PR machine.
Click to expand...

Post in the madden league thread bureaux
 
D

dskillzhtown

keep your strippers out of my American football
Spyder_Monkey said:
How often do you see Madden being talked about on enthusiast boards like this?
Click to expand...

I would go to Operation Sports before talking about it here. There you have people who actually play the game and are interested in it. Here any Madden thread turns into "2k was better", "It's just a roster update". "I hate EA", "You guys are sheep", etc. Which is fine but it really gets in the way of any good discussion. So better to go to a more dedicated board. No point in trying to talk about Madden here.
 
D

DizzyCaffeine

Member
Whatever gripes people have about Madden's media coverage, the fact remains that anyone with an Xbox One can play the game for 10 hours for $5...before the game has even been released. I'll take that over some lame IGN preview.
 
jobber

jobber

Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
DizzyCaffeine said:
Whatever gripes people have about Madden's media coverage, the fact remains that anyone with an Xbox One can play the game for 10 hours for $5. I'll take that over some lame IGN preview.
Click to expand...

The game isn't fully unlocked in the Access build and you're essentially paying for a demo.
 
L

lowhighkang_LHK

Member
theWB27 said:
You talking about the Show that ships with a nigh unplayable online every single year? Madden 17 was fine last year.
Click to expand...


I'm a ranked world series player with over 100 games logged online. Its great.

Unless you're talking about the server overload issues that lasted for like a month post release...then yeah. I get you.
 
jobber

jobber

Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
Mass Appeal said:
That's the first time they have locked something out though and it's only one feature. You still have everything else to play around with for 10 hours so it's far more then a demo you said it was.


Demos for sports games to me are 5 usually limited to two teams with 5 min quarters.
Click to expand...

FIFA 17 story and FUT stuff was locked out during the EA Access trial as well

https://fifaforums.easports.com/en/discussion/178150/fifa-17-ea-access-trial-is-limited-fut-as-well
 
I

IcyRhythms

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
And there's nothing wrong with preferring presentation/graphics over gameplay control/franchise features. My point over and over in these threads is that madden isnt some terrible game and it is light years ahead of 2k (current 2k) with regards to online features.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but that little bit of extra control you get also has some BS attached to it. Momentum and physics just aren't respected much in Madden, and they have never been. DB's still run receiver routes before the actual receiver does leave huge problems open with the AI in Madden.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
IcyRhythms said:
Yeah, but that little bit of extra control you get also has some BS attached to it. Momentum and physics just aren't respected much in Madden, and they have never been. DB's still run receiver routes before the actual receiver does leave huge problems open with the AI in Madden.
Click to expand...

No question there are issues with Madden's gameplay. So too are there issues with 2k gameplay, and if NFL 2k18 existed there would be as well. You can see the basic dna of what NFL 2k18 would be by looking at nba 2k.
 
K

K-Gun

Member
After watching more footage, it's assured that DB AI coverage has to be patched, it's awful. An earlier build had really strong zone coverage making the game too defensive, but right now it's so easy to throw outside the hashes that EA had to turn zones back up closer to where they were. Read that clicking on and controlling players feels much more responsive. Again the day 1 game will be totally different in a month.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
K-Gun said:
After watching more footage, it's assured that DB AI coverage has to be patched, it's awful. An earlier build had really strong zone coverage making the game too defensive, but right now it's so easy to throw outside the hashes that EA had to turn zones back up closer to where they were. Read that clicking on and controlling players feels much more responsive. Again the day 1 game will be totally different in a month.
Click to expand...

Do we know difficulty in these vids?
 
K

K-Gun

Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:
Do we know difficulty in these vids?
Click to expand...
Not sure, a lot of this is MUT so I'm betting it's All-Pro. Last season all MUT modes were set to All-Pro, but they played differently according to the community, slider/tuner issue maybe? The good thing is that they can tune it after release, or even after this capture event, hard to balance. I know the competitive crowd thinks that zone is too easy, they're saying it in vids, and that the game was better with zone AI at the earlier event. EA is separating the modes so who knows how they go about balancing things.

Edit: it was not pro, for sure.
 
O

oatmeal

Banned
I hope, when playing Offense only, it doesn't ALWAYS go "Welcome back the score is seven - nothing"

EVERY DAMN TIME, REGARDLESS OF SCORE.
 
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