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DC Extended Universe |OT2| A League of xX-=DaMaGeD=-Xx Gentlemen

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P

Poodlestrike

Banned
shingi70 said:
Then they failed because Superman isn't god.

all-star_superman_origin.jpg


Even down to his earliest incarnations in the Golden Age and with the radio Superman has always been a pretty human character at his core, beucase it's Clark Kent at the forefront and not Superman. Hell the radio show from the 30s/40s understood that well and slowly retconned clarks parents in and made Clark Kent the actual persona.
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Really? You're arguing that the Superman as God analogy is faulty and your go to is All Star? The book that's all about Superman as a messianic figure?

Lol

Honestly, he's both, and I think Zack did a good job of portraying that dichotomy.
 
S

shingi70

Banned
I'm not using All Star I'm using Superman origin. Even in all Star we see Clark as person through his relationships, with lex, his father, and Lois. Hell the famous scene with girl is the anti thesis of Snyder detached god concept.
 
I

IconGrist

Member
Raptor said:
I disagree, MoS treated global scale too, world engine was about to destroy everything and he chosed earth as his home, he killed Zod, at the end of MoS we see a more confident Superman talking to the general, then it all went back to depressed Supes in BvS.

There is animated movie about the same thing BvS was and didnt had a depressed Superman, they chose poorly how to introduce Batman by regresing what MoS accomplished.

This is why Im not suprised by peopel saying "emo superman again?" is been two movies already.
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He chose Earth because the other choice was to kill everyone on Earth instead. Which he obviously was not going to support and Zod wasn't going to compromise. Superman makes no mention of Earth being his true home. Even in talking to the General the conversation is about Superman not acting against America's interests. In BvS Superman is intervening in international affairs. This is why BvS progresses the plotline in that regard. Superman doesn't see himself as 'acting against America's interests' because to him he's just helping people who need help because he feels like its what he's supposed to be doing. The world is trying to tell him it's more complicated than that and so Superman is confused. Why should there be a complication in helping people? It's not like he's using politics to determine who he saves. He's just preventing the loss of life whenever and where ever he can. It's not "emo" to be conflicted on your purpose.

You brought up Returns and there's a news report in there of Superman saving people from across the globe and everyone is all happy and the world loves him and Superman's happy. That world doesn't really exist and it's not the world Snyder is trying to portray. In Returns only two people opposed Superman: Lex and Lois. Then Lois embraces him again at the end of the movie so its just Lex. It's a bit cartoony in that regard.

Where is the middle ground for you? "Real" world has various parties that oppose Superman or outright fear him while others love him or would defend him to the death, or "cartoon" world where everyone loves every single thing he does and Superman never makes a mistake?
 
A

a916

Member
broncobuster said:
It's to be seen if JL appropriate, and naturally, concludes that arc. But I agree that it's the intent, and while I have misgivings about Supes' portrayal in MoS and BvS, I respect their choice to create a relatable story for these mythical characters. Can't recall where I first heard the comparison, but it is not unlike The Last Temptation of Christ (though Scorsese is a far better filmmaker than Snyder).
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Oh to be fair, I'm saying that because that's the line they are using in PR. Whether that's true or not remains to be seen.
 
R

Raptor

Member
The Icon said:
He chose Earth because the other choice was to kill everyone on Earth instead. Which he obviously was not going to support and Zod wasn't going to compromise. Superman makes no mention of Earth being his true home. Even in talking to the General the conversation is about Superman not acting against America's interests. In BvS Superman is intervening in international affairs. This is why BvS progresses the plotline in that regard. Superman doesn't see himself as 'acting against America's interests' because to him he's just helping people who need help because he feels like its what he's supposed to be doing. The world is trying to tell him it's more complicated than that and so Superman is confused. Why should there be a complication in helping people? It's not like he's using politics to determine who he saves. He's just preventing the loss of life whenever and where ever he can. It's not "emo" to be conflicted on your purpose.

You brought up Returns and there's a news report in there of Superman saving people from across the globe and everyone is all happy and the world loves him and Superman's happy. That world doesn't really exist and it's not the world Snyder is trying to portray. In Returns only two people opposed Superman: Lex and Lois. Then Lois embraces him again at the end of the movie so its just Lex. It's a bit cartoony in that regard.

Where is the middle ground for you? "Real" world has various parties that oppose Superman or outright fear him while others love him or would defend him to the death, or "cartoon" world where everyone loves every single thing he does and Superman never makes a mistake?
Click to expand...

Maybe you are taking what Im saying as "Im against" how Snyder did it, Im not against that, Im against he is taking too long to make Superman how hes supose to be.

I just not agree how they are making it seem like Superman this Superman that and that he is important and shit, where? to the world? ok thats fine but where are is actions, where are his arc, BvS Superman was absent without leave for the majority of the movie and we only see him save and do Superman things in a montage, thats what Im not cool with, meanwhile we see Batman do lots of cool shit and be protagonist in a movie that is supose to be a continuation to MoS.

That is what Im angry about.
 
B

Boombloxer

Member
The Icon said:
He chose Earth because the other choice was to kill everyone on Earth instead. Which he obviously was not going to support and Zod wasn't going to compromise. Superman makes no mention of Earth being his true home. Even in talking to the General the conversation is about Superman not acting against America's interests. In BvS Superman is intervening in international affairs. This is why BvS progresses the plotline in that regard. Superman doesn't see himself as 'acting against America's interests' because to him he's just helping people who need help because he feels like its what he's supposed to be doing. The world is trying to tell him it's more complicated than that and so Superman is confused. Why should there be a complication in helping people? It's not like he's using politics to determine who he saves. He's just preventing the loss of life whenever and where ever he can. It's not "emo" to be conflicted on your purpose.

You brought up Returns and there's a news report in there of Superman saving people from across the globe and everyone is all happy and the world loves him and Superman's happy. That world doesn't really exist and it's not the world Snyder is trying to portray. In Returns only two people opposed Superman: Lex and Lois. Then Lois embraces him again at the end of the movie so its just Lex. It's a bit cartoony in that regard.

Where is the middle ground for you? "Real" world has various parties that oppose Superman or outright fear him while others love him or would defend him to the death, or "cartoon" world where everyone loves every single thing he does and Superman never makes a mistake?
Click to expand...

You know what's funny? This actually where JL starts in the animated series--the world fears Superman after everything that happened with Little Girl Lost and him being an agent of Darkseid. It's why Cadmus, etc exist.

But there was a before and after to that world.

The other point is that Superman is a US citizen. This is a part of his values and core; so someone who is from the US, speaks English, chases after 1 reporter from a US city, etc would.naturally be viewed as having US interests at heart. So if he's baffled about why some people might hate that, or question why that is, then straight up, he's dumb. He could ask Lois too.
One more failure of BvS.
 
W

WhiteWolf

Member
The Icon said:
I don't know about Injustice but MKX had huge problems on PC that Boon promised wouldn't exist. But an outside company ports them to PC.
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Guess I will go PS4 on this one, hopefully WB can get their PC game together. Mad Max was built in house and it turned out great on PC.
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
Raptor said:
I mean, my point is that he should be featured more in its own damn movie according to Snyder, in JL Superman will be I dont know if Im right here but Snyder said that no? that SUperman will be a "central focus" again?

I would love to be wrong on this but it all seems like he wont be in the movie that much more than BvS and that makes me angry as fuck.

They took Superman as a plot device for the fucking DCEU.
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That's a legit criticism, however we don't know how much of that was Snyder and how much was WB Batman boner. In the UC of BvS we get more Clark/Superman than the TC so I'm not going to blame him when I see evidence of a more balanced intent.

shingi70 said:
Then they failed because Superman isn't god.

all-star_superman_origin.jpg


Even down to his earliest incarnations in the Golden Age and with the radio Superman has always been a pretty human character at his core, beucase it's Clark Kent at the forefront and not Superman. Hell the radio show from the 30s/40s understood that well and slowly retconned clarks parents in and made Clark Kent the actual persona.
Click to expand...
It's not what he is objectively, it what we experience him to be subjectively. That's where you're lost. Snyder and us are quite clear of Superman origins that were beautifully presented in MOS, but we can't help but see the religious imagery as related to him, cause those are our myths, those are the lenses through which we filter his existence and presence among us.
 
G

Gordon Shumway

Banned
thehypocrite said:
That's a legit criticism, however we don't know how much of that was Snyder and how much was WB Batman boner. In the UC of BvS we get more Clark/Superman than the TC so I'm not going to blame him when I see evidence of a more balanced intent.
Click to expand...

That seems pure Warner. Hated Superman even more in BvS until I saw the uncut version, where he was doing all the things I was expecting. Why they went that route for the theatrical is baffling, and it's their own fault for the reception the film got.

They need to get back to the fabled "director's studio" shit, and stop butchering the original visions..
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
Gordon Shumway said:
That seems pure Warner. Hated Superman even more in BvS until I saw the uncut version, where he was doing all the things I was expecting. Why they went that route for the theatrical is baffling, and it's their own fault for the reception the film got.

They need to get back to the fabled "director's studio" shit, and stop butchering the original visions..
Click to expand...

I agree completely.
 
S

Smokey_Run

Member
Gordon Shumway said:
That seems pure Warner. Hated Superman even more in BvS until I saw the uncut version, where he was doing all the things I was expecting. Why they went that route for the theatrical is baffling, and it's their own fault for the reception the film got.

They need to get back to the fabled "director's studio" shit, and stop butchering the original visions..
Click to expand...

Different set of executives at the top when they were doing that.
 
B

broncobuster

Banned
In retrospect the rumor that Warners wanted the movie edited to be Batman focused seems reasonable. Theatrical cut makes Superman out to be the bad dude, when in the Ultimate cut, and overall thematically, Batman is a villain.

Superman helping people after the explosion lasts maybe a minute but adds so much for his character. And it's specifically something people were upset about in the TC.
 
S

shingi70

Banned
thehypocrite said:
That's a legit criticism, however we don't know how much of that was Snyder and how much was WB Batman boner. In the UC of BvS we get more Clark/Superman than the TC so I'm not going to blame him when I see evidence of a more balanced intent.


It's not what he is objectively, it what we experience him to be subjectively. That's where you're lost. Snyder and us are quite clear of Superman origins that were beautifully presented in MOS, but we can't help but see the religious imagery as related to him, cause those are our myths, those are the lenses through which we filter his existence and presence among us.
Click to expand...

The Ultimate Cut is better in the regard, but Snyder leaning so much on trying to perceive Superman as god, has ruined the DCEU or at least the Superman parts of it. In all his pontificating on what Superman is, he never answers and in the end Superman's death rings hollow because we never see the man only the god that Snyder likes to see.
 
B

Bleepey

Member
Boombloxer said:
You know what's funny? This actually where JL starts in the animated series--the world fears Superman after everything that happened with Little Girl Lost and him being an agent of Darkseid. It's why Cadmus, etc exist.

But there was a before and after to that world.

The other point is that Superman is a US citizen. This is a part of his values and core; so someone who is from the US, speaks English, chases after 1 reporter from a US city, etc would.naturally be viewed as having US interests at heart. So if he's baffled about why some people might hate that, or question why that is, then straight up, he's dumb. He could ask Lois too.
One more failure of BvS.
Click to expand...

He only started fearing and wonderin what his role in the world would be after Lex's machinations. He tries to save Lois and villagers from being killed by drone strike, it leads to according to news media power vacuum that causes people to be slaughtered, he tries to explain himself and the events that took place and he thinks a crazy guy tries to blow up the govt building, said crazy guy thinks he is too blame for collateral damage thatr was 99% caused by Zod. I'd be pretty pissed off too.We live in a world where the press can distort events like crazy, lies can spread faster than the truth and where unseating crazy leaders leads to power vacuums whether it's Libya, Iraq, Syria etc> the more i think about the film the more respect I have for it.
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
shingi70 said:
The Ultimate Cut is better in the regard, but Snyder leaning so much on trying to perceive Superman as god, has ruined the DCEU or at least the Superman parts of it. In all his pontificating on what Superman is, he never answers and in the end Superman's death rings hollow because we never see the man only the god that Snyder likes to see.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry it didn't work for you, but it wasn't my experience with the movies, there's nothing hollow about Superman sacrifice, a dude from Kansas doing the right thing, embracing even those that hate him and literally tried to kill him, but I have no desire to re-litigate MOS or BvS/UC. Those are great movies, not without faults but way more aspiration and depth than most. true capekino.
 
S

shingi70

Banned
thehypocrite said:
I'm sorry it didn't work for you, but it wasn't my experience with the movies, there's nothing hollow about Superman sacrifice, a dude from Kansas doing the right thing, embracing even those that hate him and literally tried to kill him, but I have no desire to re-litigate MOS or BvS/UC. Those are great movies, not without faults but way more aspiration and depth than most. true capekino.
Click to expand...


I think Man of Steel is a great movie, in fact it's my favorite superhero movie. Now BvS far less so.
 
R

ryan299

Member
WB wants Mel Gibson to Direct SS2. Via THR

Mel Gibson is mulling joining the DC Cinematic Universe ... as a director.

Warner Bros. is courting the actor-director to helm Suicide Squad 2 and the sides are early in talks, The Hollywood Reporter has learned. No official offer has been made nor has any commitment.

Sources say that Gibson is familiarizing himself with the material. But the studio is not being passive and it also looking at other directors, Daniel Espinosa among them.
Click to expand...
 
B

broncobuster

Banned
Mel is a crazy asshole but he's a great director and might pull for an R rating. Undecided on how to feel about it. Daniel Espinosa as the other name? Nah, son. Build a bigger list, Warners.
 
L

LionPride

Banned
Ross61 said:
The racist prick who said he hates comicbook movies??????????

WB pls.

Reconsider.


I mean, it's great that WB are looking towards more critically acclaimed directors.... but no. Not him. Anyone but him. (Ok, not anyone.)
Click to expand...
Any oscar nominated director that hasn't said Anti-Semetic, racist things?
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Mel Gibson?

wtf

broncobuster said:
In retrospect the rumor that Warners wanted the movie edited to be Batman focused seems reasonable. Theatrical cut makes Superman out to be the bad dude, when in the Ultimate cut, and overall thematically, Batman is a villain.

Superman helping people after the explosion lasts maybe a minute but adds so much for his character. And it's specifically something people were upset about in the TC.
Click to expand...

Tbh, I think you're overstating the degree to which it was deliberate. I picked up on the "batman is the villain" thing in the TC. It's all there, it's just ineffectively communicated.
 
S

Smokey_Run

Member
The Icon said:
Because you don't try to get Gibson on board without at least understanding he's going to walk if you don't let him do what he wants, and two, Joker will likely not be in the movie in the first place.
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Oh I know, if Gibson did say yes, he's probably going to have the most power of all the DCEU directors. He's not going to show up for less than that.

As for the Joker, good. He needs to be a secondary character for awhile. I understand the marketing appeal, but I'd like to see stories that don't have him crammed in.
 
R

ryan299

Member
Variety added more names

Sources tell Variety that some of the names WB has met with — or is planning to meet with — include Ruben Fleischer (“Zombieland”), Daniel Espinosa (“Safe House”), Jonathan Levine (“Warm Bodies”), and Mel Gibson (“Hacksaw Ridge”).
Click to expand...
 
L

Leo_Sagittarius

Member
So recaping, Nicole Kidman as Arthur's mom confirmed, Mel Gibson aproached to direct Suicide Squad and apparently seems to be actually considering it and didn't blow them off.... yet........


Tom Cruise as Hal Jordan is right around the corner guys.
 
S

Smokey_Run

Member
Lion_Sagittarius said:
So recaping, Nicole Kidman as Arthur's mom confirmed, Mel Gibson aproached to direct Suicide Squad and apparently seems to be actually considering it and didn't blow them off.... yet........


Tom Cruise as Hal Jordan is right around the corner guys.
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People saying Cruise is above Hal Jordan are living in fantasy land. Just look at what he's done in the past 5 years. He's clearly not above anything. Also, people like to pretend certain people can't possibly be into certain things.
 
A

a916

Member
Ruben Fleischer (”Zombieland"), Daniel Espinosa (”Safe House"), Jonathan Levine (”Warm Bodies"), and Mel Gibson (”Hacksaw Ridge").
Click to expand...

One of those people are not like the other... what a terrible tier of directors. That movie might be worse than the first. Ayer is talented whereas I have no faith in any of those directors except the obvious and MAYBE, Ruben Fleischer but even that's a stretch since he has no consistency.

ryan299 said:
WB wants Mel Gibson to Direct SS2. Via THR
Click to expand...

I don't see this happening, not to mention he's a racist person. But personal feelings aside, he's a talented person and for a brand desperate to add talent... it might be a good thing speaking strictly on the end film. Hacksaw Ridge was the best movie I watched last year.

Smokey_Run said:
People saying Cruise is above Hal Jordan are living in fantasy land. Just look at what he's done in the past 5 years. He's clearly not above anything. Also, people like to pretend certain people can't possibly be into certain things.
Click to expand...

He's too old. The really need to stop signing people THAT old. It was an issue with Batman and it's DEFINITELY an issue with GL. He's old now, he's going to be way older by the time DC get's around to GL. Damn near 60 years old by then.
 
S

Smokey_Run

Member
a916 said:
He's too old. The really need to stop signing people THAT old. It was an issue with Batman and it's DEFINITELY an issue with GL. He's old now, he's going to be way older by the time DC get's around to GL. Damn near 60 years old by then.
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From everything we've heard, Hal Jordan is the "I'm too old for this shit" dynamic of the GL movie. Whoever is cast as John is clearly the one who will be carrying the franchise moving forward. And it will be a bunch of CGI, he's 54, and it could be in a position to film next year if they're already writing the script.
 
J

jackdoe

Member
a916 said:
One of those people are not like the other... what a terrible tier of directors. That movie might be worse than the first. Ayer is talented whereas I have no faith in any of those directors except the obvious and MAYBE, Ruben Fleischer but even that's a stretch since he has no consistency.
Click to expand...
I completely disagree. Jonathan Levine is a solid director. Warm Bodies and 50/50 were very enjoyable movies. The only real questionable director is Espinosa, but his movies are as critically well received as Suicide Squad, so he could easily pick up the mantle of mediocrity that the first film started.
 
O

Odoul

Member
"Pack of niggers"

I don't get this studio.

They're making everything bubblegum and they woo a director like him.

He's very talented, however he'll never see a dime of my cash.
 
N

Ninjimbo

Member
thehypocrite said:
I'm sorry it didn't work for you, but it wasn't my experience with the movies, there's nothing hollow about Superman sacrifice, a dude from Kansas doing the right thing, embracing even those that hate him and literally tried to kill him, but I have no desire to re-litigate MOS or BvS/UC. Those are great movies, not without faults but way more aspiration and depth than most. true capekino.
Click to expand...
My man.

Mel for SS2 would be insane. I want this to happen so badly just so I can see how far he would go with it. He would give those villains the edge they lacked in the original. I want to see Killer Croc bite off a dude's arm and use it to club somebody.
 
A

a916

Member
BadAss2961 said:
I don't know who at WB could convince Mel to do a comic book movie.
Click to expand...

Giving him a blank cheque for his passion project that costs a lot of money? (I imagine that would move the needle for a lot of people)

Smokey_Run said:
From everything we've heard, Hal Jordan is the "I'm too old for this shit" dynamic of the GL movie. Whoever is cast as John is clearly the one who will be carrying the franchise moving forward. And it will be a bunch of CGI, he's 54, and it could be in a position to film next year if they're already writing the script.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a terrible idea, Hal Jordan should be carrying the torch as the main GL for a while... we're already talking about an over the hill Jordan?

Odoul said:
"Pack of niggers"

I don't get this studio.

They're making everything bubblegum and they woo a director like him.

He's very talented, however he'll never see a dime of my cash.
Click to expand...

There's nothing bubble gum about what they've done so far.. bubble gum would be playing it safe... they've given us a film universe that sees a damn Suicide Squad and Justice League movie before a Batman movie. A BATMAN movie. The ballsy choices about Batman, killing off Superman, they've don't nothing but be ballsy. He's definitely a racist though, but he still gets work which means Hollywood doesn't care about that if you're good enough.
 
L

LionPride

Banned
Odoul said:
"Pack of niggers"

I don't get this studio.

They're making everything bubblegum and they woo a director like him.

He's very talented, however he'll never see a dime of my cash.
Click to expand...

Like, you can't say "I hope you get raped by a pack of wild niggers" and just brush that shit off your shoulders
 
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