IIRC, Hulu offers an official Linux app and Amazon allows Linux users to stream content via its VOD website, but Netflix support is achieved via an unofficial app.
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Valve engineer confirms Linux-based Steambox for 2013, could appear at GDC or E3
- Thread starter alexandros
- Start date
IIRC, Hulu offers an official Linux app and Amazon allows Linux users to stream content via its VOD website, but Netflix support is achieved via an unofficial app.
Think about it this way, let's say Steam says 'we're supporting Linux from now on. We'll still do Mac and Windows stuff, but our box in the living room will run Linux exclusively.' Well, how much of the PC sales market do you think Steam takes up? Got to be well over 50, maybe even 75 percent. As a developer, the idea of making a Linux version of your game seems far more appealing. Maybe even more so than the Windows or Mac version if the box is sold at a reasonable price.
I do wonder if this is more focused on indie games and the like rather than big commercial products though.
I do wonder if this is more focused on indie games and the like rather than big commercial products though.
Oh no I get all that, it's just the same argument as for the Ouya and such, if you can just hook up what you already have to the TV why do you need to bother buying another box?
I'm just trying to think what market there is for the console.
I wonder if Valve will make their games exclusive to it and will try to sign on a few other exclusives to give people the incentive to buy.
outunderthestars
Banned
I think of it as their chance to put out a subsidized box to get people into their ecosystem. BY removing Windows and the need for a profit margin, Valve could deliver something on the scope of the X51, but for several hundred dollars less.
The problem with that is that the existing Steam userbase will likely continue to build higher powered windows based rigs for their gaming needs.
deadhorse32
Bad Art
I was under the impression "Windows Embedded" was dead but Windows Embedded Standard 7 could have been an alternative.
True.
As someone who doesn't have a gaming PC right now (been thinking about getting one, but will probably wait to see all of these upcoming system announcements) I might be interested. Big fan of Steam based on some of the older / less demanding stuff I play on my laptop.
Exclusivity isn't going to happen. The key difference between the Steambox and the consoles from The Big Three is that Valve isn't selling the hardware per se, it's selling Steam. Valve's "console" isn't going to compete against existing Steam-capable PCs but simply expand the existing options to access and utilise Steam itself.
outunderthestars
Banned
This is the boat I find myself in. I already own close to 30 steam games, but lack a laptop powerful enough to run them. I have been debating building a gaming rig this year, but can't seem to pull the trigger on it due to the cost.
Oh my, Steambox sounds like a bad idea. Linux only? What's with games that don't support controllers? How will Valve ensure every game runs on this smoothly? What happens if Crysis 4 comes out and my Steambox cant run it? What's with the games I already bought? No access? This is a mess.
outunderthestars
Banned
Maybe you should wait until they actually announce it before declaring it a mess.
Right there with you, haha. I know I'd love it once I have everything hooked up and whatnot, but I feel hesitant with signs pointing to new systems on the horizon. And as of now I'm happy with playing World of Warcraft and my backlog from GOG :lol
I guess if this Steambox doesn't look too promising then I'll just go with a new PC + one of the upcoming consoles.
fierrotlepou
Member
The software will make or break this.
outunderthestars
Banned
I'm waiting for another 30% off deal on an X51. If that happens that will become my steambox unless Valve announces this steambox soon and it blows me away.
It won't run any EA games or have bluray. Hot mess confirmed.
Sorry directx and by extension direct 3d is not just a specification it is a collection of programming libraries that the programmer uses to perform certain actions it is very much integral to the games code. While changing the render shouldn't be too much of a massive job as they will have the source code. Its all the testing and red tape that comes with that that makes it a large job.
alexandros
Banned
Yes, very much so. It's been confirmed from multiple sources within Valve, including Newell himself.
Patrick Bateman
Member
I highly doubt that the steambox will have the problems people are making up here ("LINUX HAS NO GAMES!!" etc.). Valve will have a proper plan, I guess.
i don't think valve is planning videogame domination or even trying to compete with the consoles. from what i understand, the purpose of the steambox is somewhat similar to the original xbox - to make some steps in growing their own market (linux/steambox), while making sure that windows doesn't utterly dominate it. gabe newell has been pretty open about he doesn't like the current direction windows is going in, and i think steambox and linux is a result or alternative to that.
Shadow of the BEAST
Banned
will it be a closed box?
ie will developers be able to code specifically for the hardware.
ie will developers be able to code specifically for the hardware.
terrdactycalsrock
Member
I have to believe that they have a proper plan as well. However, until I see what that plan is a part of cant help but to be skeptical
diffusionx
Gold Member
The original Xbox was also a massive money loser over many years, what you are talking about will transform the company. Maybe Valve thinks it is time to transform, but I am skeptical.
i'm only really talking about what i believe is the idealogical approach of the steambox is. i have no idea how they'll execute it - whether steambox is a label to stamp on any approved box, if its an actual box or if it will be run at a profit/loss. time will tell!
I think Valve has 2 ways to go about making this console, Either:
1. You compete graphically with Microsoft and release a $400 console that will only sell to the high end steam user.
2. You take the cheaper route and build a $200 console, with a single AMD APU (~700GFLOPs for richland) and possibly allow users to plug in GPUs into a open PCIe slot for upgrading later on.
The last steam survey showed a pretty high percentage of steam users are integrated GPU users, and 4 cores or less is also definitely the norm for them.
Personally the $200 console has a much bigger chance to extend their market, especially with an upgrade slot for a better GPU, since you are going with a PC sort of build this way, 8GB is only 20 to 25 dollars in bluk, which isn't much more than 4GB, so you could make the box pretty much an upgrade ready console that would give users steam on their TV (expand their market) and allow them to upgrade to play better games down the road. This is how I've been thinking for a while now with this console.
The most positive thing about this to me is that the living might finally get a viable open platform in the mix. The walled garden approach is tiring and by far the thing I dislike most about consoles. Regardless I still don't think this is going to be anything more than a niche product, at least at first.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Actually, this is only really possible (and possible to be successful) in todays world.
There's all sorts of convergence going on here that could make it successful.
- Most target consumers have a de facto standard 'monitor' with a de facto standard input type; your HDTV and HDMI port.
- Console generational transition time; how'd you like a new more powerful console? P.S. it has a huge legacy library, including 'free' HD remakes of many games
- Microsoft Hubris;
- for years MS have bullied OEM partners around, because a new release of windows meant massive sales for them, so they pretty much had to take it. Guess what has recently happened that didn't result in a big upswing in sales?
- Windows 8 store locking out other storefronts from core OS features; EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard and other publishers with their own DD stores aren't happy about that. I'd be surprised if it doesn't get support from publishers with their own stores.
- Android has proven that Linux doesn't scare people; it just needs to be user friendly with its UI enough to do what people need it to do, and let all the scary techy stuff run in the background. Like run games on a consolePC, right?
- What if the steambox is 'on par' graphically with the 720, but all of its games are cheaper to buy at launch, even at RRP / MSRP, it regularly has sales that go far below that price, and it has a far superior online service for free? What's the value proposition on the 720 look like in comparison?
- Broken publisher / retail model;
- Revenue Splits; traditionally you needed a publisher to make games, because they had the retail and logistics services setup that allowed you to sell those games to the public. In return you saw maybe a 30% return on sales, the rest being split between the publisher and the retailer. With Steam, you don't need a publisher to sell, and you get 70% revenue.
- Publisher funding; traditionally, most developers didn't have the cash to finance a project, so would spend their own money to create a publisher demo / vertical slice, hope it would get greenlit, and then get to work hoping it would be something a consumer would want to play. Now? Kickstarter. Except the people who choose to fund your game or not are the same people who would probably buy it, not a bunch of suits wioth business and marketing degrees.
- Platform owners beholden to bricks and mortar pricing; you know how DD costs less to produce than a retail copy does, but console manufacturers have to keep their DD titles overpriced so as not to piss off the bricks and mortar retailers that they rely on to sell their games for them and provide those long tail revenue streams? What if there was a console that doesn't give a fuck about bricks and mortar and lets developers price their games at what they think is fair? Maybe a console that has an already established DD storefront?
i would be a little surprised if valve were going to go into this willy nilly - of course they'll have a plan. it would be fanboyish to think otherwise. i think valve's intention will be to use steam as a trojan horse for linux just like how sony used the playstation for blu-ray. i don't think the launch will be huge in terms of support, but instead valve will be measuring developer support over a longer time like 3/5/10 years.
Does anyone not think that this is simply another console that will age and if devs start targeting this platform then games will suffer at the bleeding edge?
Although when you think about it its not exactly like value games push that boundary anyway of late using the source engine
If its not a fixed spec whats the point of it?
Although when you think about it its not exactly like value games push that boundary anyway of late using the source engine
If its not a fixed spec whats the point of it?
Graphics Horse
Member
New versions of hardware could be released regularly like iOS products. And Windows 8 products. And OSX products. Oops I forgot Android products.
Then you wait for the hackers to get on it. On a machine with off the shelf computer parts and the power of Linux (and the ridiculously hack-savvy Linux audience) that would last about a day.
And like I said, that seems very unlikely anyway. Valve has very little (nothing?) to gain by doing that. Oh noes, people want to load the version of our store that has way more products for us to sell to them! They've always been very supportive of open platforms in the past.
alexandros
Banned
Well, according to the Verge article that first broke the news last year, Valve's plan is for Steam to become the Android of gaming:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/2/2840932/exclusive-valve-steam-box-gaming-console
Kind of amazed at all the pessimism. I can't be bothered finding the link again, but Ryan Gordon who has been hired by a large number of companies to port their games to Linux (single-handedly no less) says porting to Linux is generally not that difficult and if a company develops a game with Linux support in mind, even less so. If a company has already ported their game to Mac it's likely to be even easier, and there are currently 400+ Mac games on Steam.
Also, Valve don't need to sell 50 million of these to turn a profit on the endeavour. I think there's probably a decent sized niche to be taken advantage of here. It's PC gaming without all the hassle. Count me in.
Also, Valve don't need to sell 50 million of these to turn a profit on the endeavour. I think there's probably a decent sized niche to be taken advantage of here. It's PC gaming without all the hassle. Count me in.
manzo
Member
I guess I've been a consolite too long. Steam was the spark that brought me back to PC gaming, but I hate that I have to use other "loaders/storefronts" on my PC rather than Steam.
But I'll be watching this with interest.
Graphics Horse
Member
Whatever it is I hope it's not called Steambox.
Steamcast!
Steamcast!
Gabecube.
diffusionx
Gold Member
The hassle is what makes the PC so good. With the hassle, the PC isn't the PC, it's just a console of some sort. At least, that's been my experience over the past ~18 years of playing PC games (jeez).
Horse Armour
Member
Stiim U!
Steamstation!
Graphics Horse
Member
PlaySteamtion.
Didn't mean to derail the Steam Train, carry on.
Didn't mean to derail the Steam Train, carry on.
alexandros
Banned
The only way to go.
brain_stew
Member
Why would you need an override program when support is built right into the driver. OpenGL has always been much more friendly towards tripple buffering.
Duallusion
Member
If it's as just-plug-in-and-play (download-and-play) as consoles, I'm interested, depending on a good price/performance ratio and what MS/Sony have in mind. If not, I'd build my own PC, if I was bothered to return to this platform (and I'm not, as of yet). I don't want to see a keyboard anywhere near me as a gaming device anymore or ever bother with any "performance" thread to get the best out of my hardware, let alone to run the game properly. Those days are past me.
I'd hazard a guess I speak for the vast majority of console gamers, too. People are not "afraid" of building their own PCs or fiddling with settings, like too many posts in here suggested. Most people just don't give a shit about stuff like that nor do they want to learn.
I'm intrigued who exactly does Valve and its partners in this have in mind with Steambox. Price point(s) alone will be telling enough.
I'd hazard a guess I speak for the vast majority of console gamers, too. People are not "afraid" of building their own PCs or fiddling with settings, like too many posts in here suggested. Most people just don't give a shit about stuff like that nor do they want to learn.
I'm intrigued who exactly does Valve and its partners in this have in mind with Steambox. Price point(s) alone will be telling enough.
Sentenza
Member
It doesn't matter.
Once you pile them up they still are a sizable additional user base to serve for a minor cost, plus they would eventually grow if served properly.
As anecdotal side note, I've been into PC gaming since the late'80s/early '90s and I can't even count how many times I've heard over 20 years a lot of people -myself included, actually- claiming they would gladly jump to Linux as main OS if it was a viable option from a gaming standpoint.
IMO the pessimism seems mostly based on how this thing doesn't seem to offer anything to anyone who was already a PC gamer.
Screw that, leave linux on and have hope that valve can make it all work without windows. The goal is to get away from windows.
If valve can deliver steam outside of running windows i'm not sure why people would want to install windows on it. Nothing wrong with a closed steambox, its not like you can run xbox media center on xbox 360 or windows. This would be better than the box live/games for windows live split.
If this takes off my gaming pc will become a server to stream itunes/playon.
Less Microsoft is always welcomed.
It's not limiting or excluding based on the news that valve was requiring linux for games back in december.
I'm all for a non windows world. Games are the only reason I run windows.
As for why buy a steambox over hooking up your pc to your tv, not every pc gamer is a hardcore gamer and not everyone has their computer in the same room as their living room tv.
Also if its account based thing like the wii u gamepad. When its time for the wife to do work from home etc, she gets on the pc you log in to your account on the steambox.
I wonder what this means for the future of PSN/Steam account sync.
But that's what the Steambox was supposed to be since the start. Even when it was a rumor, did anyone think it was suddenly going to be a holy shit new graphics beta testing video cards for 200 bucks box?
alexandros
Banned
I think the target is console gamers, if you're a PC gamer then you're probably also Valve's client.
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