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RM8 · Mar 1, 2013

EloquentM said:
It's 800 x 480. Double the resolution in 2D

Using 3D doesn't really increase PPI, you're pretty much seeing 400x240 screen but in 3D. Pixels don't become "smaller", jaggies don't become less evident.

I mean:

VS

^ It's going to look more like the quoted pic without clicking on it (size-wise), just with jaggies.

Mpl90 · Mar 1, 2013

Rash said:
Well, how did Nano Assault Neo look?

...Yeah, right. I should have said their NEXT title on Wii U, when they'll have probably far more knowledge of the hardware.

VariantX · Mar 1, 2013

EloquentM said:
How many people work at way forward compared to shinen?

I'm pretty sure wayforward has to have more people for sure. Shinen seems to do very well for themselves by having a handful of guys there.

BorkBork · Mar 1, 2013

Shin'en is like a modern day Factor 5.

Davey Cakes · Mar 1, 2013

No, I'm honestly curious. I didn't buy Nano Assault Neo. It's a small game apparently but if it looks good then it could represent what to expect later.

Obviously with more knowledge of the hardware they could do even better things though.

NMFried · Mar 1, 2013

So... can I have it now?

heringer · Mar 1, 2013

Looks good. Not as good as the first Jett Rocket though.

fabricated backlash · Mar 1, 2013

Mpl90 said:
...Yeah, right. I should have said their NEXT title on Wii U, when they'll have probably far more knowledge of the hardware.

They allready hinted at using tesselation in their next WiiU game.

heringer said:
Looks good. Not as good as the first Jett Rocket though.

3DS isn't as powerfull as Wii so that's understandable.

xxbrothawizxx63 · Mar 1, 2013

Rm88~ said:
Now we neeed FAST 3DS please.

What I would do for that game with online play in 3D @ 60fps on the 3DS....

OnPoint · Mar 1, 2013

Freaking technical masterminds. What they're able to do graphically blows me away.

watershed · Mar 1, 2013

Very impressive looking game, now if only they could get rid of that generic, tech-demo like feel to their games.

ThatsMytrunks · Mar 1, 2013

60 FPS in 3D? Platforming? As long as it's $15 or less, I vow to pick it up upon release.

Doogdogg · Mar 1, 2013

The character look like an avatar XBL. Truly awful.

Celine · Mar 1, 2013

Rm88~ said:
They're way, way higher-res than an actual 3DS screen. That's the thing.

On a PC with high res, 3DS screen size (400 x 240) looks rather small:

http://nintendookie.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/e3-2010-ds-vs-3ds-the-flattened-vis11.jpg

Shion · Mar 1, 2013

Their old character design (which was also quite generic) was better imo.

EVH · Mar 1, 2013

I would love to see some FAST with online and all.

This game looks as expected a technical masterpiece. Hope it is fun and not very expensive.

RM8 · Mar 1, 2013

Celine said:
On a PC with high res, 3DS screen size (400 x 240) looks rather small:

http://nintendookie.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/e3-2010-ds-vs-3ds-the-flattened-vis11.jpg

Yeah, but these are rendered at twice the 3DS resolution. They're not simply 3DS screens at double size. It's important because jaggies and lack of detail will be more evident in the final product.

LamerDeluxe · Mar 1, 2013

EloquentM said:
It's 800 x 480. Double the resolution in 2D

That is not correct, in 2D mode it is simply showing the same image to your left and right eye, so still just 400 x 240. Or slightly different images to create an AA effect.

fabricated backlash · Mar 1, 2013

LamerDeluxe said:
That is not correct, in 2D mode it is simply showing the same image to your left and right eye, so still just 400 x 240. Or slightly different images to create an AA effect.

No it's not, in 2D the paralax barrier is shut off, showing 1 single picture using the full resolution, thus enhancing the PPI considerably.
The physical resolution of the screen is 800x240, and that's what you're getting with the paralax barrier shut off.

EVH said:
I would love to see some FAST with online and all.

This game looks as expected a technical masterpiece. Hope it is fun and not very expensive.

Sign me up for that. Loved the game (even though the ship balancing was horrible)

Celine · Mar 1, 2013

BTW I'm quite certain the 3D (land) parts were added at a later time.
When the sequel was announced Manfred stated how it changed the genre...

EightBitNate said:
Are there any 3DS games with good AA? SM3DLand, SSF4, and few others would look infinitely better with it.

Zen Pinball has the best AA I've seen on 3DS (even in 3D).

LamerDeluxe · Mar 1, 2013

fabricated backlash said:
No it's not, in 2D the paralax barrier is shut off, showing 1 single picture using the full resolution, thus enhancing the PPI considerably.

Source?

RM8 · Mar 1, 2013

fabricated backlash said:
thus enhancing the PPI considerably.

This is physically impossible.

^ This is how a 3DS game looks resolutiion-wise in both 2D and 3D, 3D just adds... 3D, but doesn't "increase PPI" in any way. If anything some people say games look jaggi-er in 3D.

Screenboy · Mar 1, 2013

Nintendo should snap these up, they know how to squeeze graphics out of a console.

fabricated backlash · Mar 1, 2013

LamerDeluxe said:
Source?

Plain physics. The screen is 800x240. The paralax barrier is diverting the vertical lines 1,3,5,7 etc to the left, 2,4,6,8 etc to the right. In 3D the system renders two images at 400x240 each. In 2D the full 800x240 is used on one framebuffer.

The paralax barrier is always visible in 3D, when the power is turned off, the light passes straight through, instead of aiming left/right respectively. If they would show the same picture on lines 1,3,5,7 as on lines 2,4,6,8 you would get a stretched image

1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8
a-a-b-b-c-c-d-d

Rm88~ said:
This is physically impossible.

^ This is how a 3DS game looks resolutiion-wise in both 2D and 3D, 3D just adds... 3D, but doesn't "increase PPI" in any way. If anything some people say games look jaggi-er in 3D.

The perceived PPI, it's not adding more pixels to the display of course. The PPI is at it's highest in 2D as you can actually see a single image in 800x240 as opposed to 3D which is 400x240 per eye. (which obviously looks jaggier)

RM8 · Mar 1, 2013

I still disagree. You can't possibly perceive that Mario Kart pic I posted at twice its resolution by using either 3D or 2D. Also, there aren't any screens out there of a 3DS game at 800x240, of any game. Even with those capture kits for 3DS, games in 2D/3D are displayed at 400x240.

VariantX · Mar 1, 2013

Screenboy said:
Nintendo should snap these up, they know how to squeeze graphics out of a console.

They work with Nintendo HW because they want to, so really, they don't need to be snapped up by anyone else anyway. They've had the option to go anywhere else they wanted to for years.

fabricated backlash · Mar 1, 2013

Rm88~ said:
I still disagree. You can't possibly perceive that Mario Kart pic I posted at twice its resolution by using 3D.

You don't, you're seeing it at 400x240 with each respective eye.

Either they render at 400x240 in 2D Mode Using 2px but that would actually increase Jaggies in 2D because it wouldn't use native resolution.

Portugeezer · Mar 1, 2013

I don't know about that. In 3D I notice the higher resolution, even on minimal 3D where the 3D effect isn't really there I notice everything looks crisper and shaper, and it's not jaggies because it happens with games which are jaggy in 2D too.

NinjaFusion said:
LOL!

You are clueless it would seem.

Many games use extra power in 2D mode to add AA, some improve framerate, some do nothing, but seeing as you can't improve framerate from 60fps they could add AA in 2D mode.

krizzx · Mar 1, 2013

Not quite up to par with the Wii version, but it looks great nonetheless.

RM8 · Mar 1, 2013

Doesn't 2D simply show the same screen to both eyes? In such case it's still a 400x240 picture. Again, how come there's not one single one screen out there of a 3DS game at 800x240?

Also, in any case, these screens are 800x480. They're not running on 3DS regardless and will not look like that.

Spiegel · Mar 1, 2013

Father_Brain said:
If this can look this good at 60fps, is it too much to ask for a locked 30fps from Mirror of Fate? Well, at least I enjoyed the demo anyway...

This game has quite simple geometry. Castlevania has a lot more going on on screen.

JordanN · Mar 1, 2013

Crazy ass normal maps. Wished more developers that weren't named Shinen or Capcom, actually used it [for 3DS].

Also, I wonder if they'll port/remake the original Jett Rocket to 3DS. I'll still end up picking up the sequel though.

xxbrothawizxx63 · Mar 1, 2013

fabricated backlash said:
Either they render at 400x240 in 2D Mode Using 2px but that would actually increase Jaggies in 2D because it wouldn't use native resolution.

Pretty sure this is exactly what happen in 2D mode....

The 400x240 image the GPU outputs is stretched to accomodate the 2x vertical pixels. If you have 3D Land you can see the effect of this clearly if you line up the the rectangular poles in the game correctly. You'll see the pixel grouping in 2D that gives the image a short of psuedo (it's barley ever effective) AA but in my opinion at the cost of a noticeably blurrier image.

fernoca · Mar 1, 2013

Looks as great as I was expecting. This and the upcoming re-release of Nano Assault on 3DS with mroe features!! Keep'em coming Shin'en and I'll keep buying'em!!

RM8 · Mar 1, 2013

xxbrothawizxx63 said:
Pretty sure this is exactly what happen in 2D mode....

The 400x240 image the GPU outputs is stretched to accomodate the 2x vertical pixels. If you have 3D Land you can see the effect of this clearly if you line up the the rectangular poles in the game correctly. You'll see the pixel grouping in 2D that gives the image a short of psuedo (it's barley ever effective) AA but in my opinion at the cost of a noticeably blurrier image.

How would this work on 2D games like Epic Mickey, though? The sprites would get considerably distorted and it's not the case.

Zornica · Mar 1, 2013

EightBitNate said:
Are there any 3DS games with good AA? SM3DLand, SSF4, and few others would look infinitely better with it.

there are a many like mario kart 7, monster hunter 3g or resident evil revelations.

Rm88~ said:
They're way, way higher-res than an actual 3DS screen. That's the thing.

the devkit can render any resolution you want it to.

edit:

Rm88~ said:
How would this work on 2D games like Epic Mickey, though? The sprites would get considerably distorted and it's not the case.

the 3ds isn't working with sprites, they are all flat polymodels. Back in the 1st mirror of fate thread, a developer from shinobi 3ds told us.

RM8 · Mar 1, 2013

The only issue I have with that it's that the game is absolutely not going to look like that on a 3DS. It's quite literally going to look just half as good resolution-wise.

Zornica said:
the 3ds isn't working with sprites, they are all flat polymodels. Back in the 1st mirror of fate thread, a developer from shinobi 3ds told us.

That appear as sprites on screen. And they look 100% the same in 2D and 3D in games like Epic Mickey or Fire Emblem, no distortion at all - that's why I think there's no pseudo-PPI-increase in either 2D or 3D.

JDSN · Mar 1, 2013

Time for Shinen to start spending some cash of new artists.

atbigelow · Mar 1, 2013

I enjoyed my time with the original, so I've been waiting for this. Will totally get it.

Father_Brain · Mar 1, 2013

Spiegel said:
This game has quite simple geometry. Castlevania has a lot more going on on screen.

Which is why I (would like to) think that half JRII's framerate would be reasonable.

Alexios · Mar 1, 2013

The first screens scared me! Well duh, of course it can handle 60fps when it's a simple side scrolling game, is this what the fuss was about?! But it's good to see it's got fully 3D parts as well. Although it looks like they had to go for a more isometric overhead camera style, similar to 3D Land in fact, so concessions were made.

LamerDeluxe · Mar 1, 2013

I found a source that confirms the parallax barrier can indeed be turned off. I wasn't expecting that, because like mentioned here, I haven't seen any 2D games use 800 x 240.
Here's the source: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20110228/189942/

I know how a parallax barrier works btw, but thanks for the explanation.

Easy_D · Mar 1, 2013

This game looks pretty damn nice, hopefully it plays nice as well

Shaanyboi · Mar 1, 2013

They need some better artists....

But hot damn, do they understand how to push hardware.

Call Me Maybe · Mar 1, 2013

When does this release?

majik13 · Mar 1, 2013

Rm88~ said:
This is physically impossible.

^ This is how a 3DS game looks resolutiion-wise in both 2D and 3D, 3D just adds... 3D, but doesn't "increase PPI" in any way. If anything some people say games look jaggi-er in 3D.

pretty sure it does increase ppi, at least from the viewers perspective. in 3d it is sending a lower res image to each eye. in 2d you get the full resolution of the screen for both eyes.

3d is 400x240 per eye
2d is 800x240 per eye

Boerseun · Mar 1, 2013

What is with this call for better artists? Their games look great (in my opinion). Art appreciation is completely objective, meaning just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it is bad art.

RM8 · Mar 1, 2013

majik13 said:
2d is 800x240 per eye

I'm sure this is not the case. Mario Kart 7 in 2D looks exactly like the pic I posted to me, I'm not even sure how in 2D it could be in 800x240.

^ That's 800x240.

Am I missing something? Does 3DS have ultra slim, vertically longer pixels or anything?

GhostTrick · Mar 1, 2013

Rm88~ said:
I'm sure this is not the case. Mario Kart 7 in 2D looks exactly like the pic I posted to me, I'm not even sure how in 2D it could be in 800x240.

^ That's 800x240.

The problem is that 3DS is cheating. It's 800*240, but the pixels... they're not square.

Call Me Maybe · Mar 1, 2013

majik13 said:
pretty sure it does increase ppi, at least from the viewers perspective. in 3d it is sending a lower res image to each eye. in 2d you get the full resolution of the screen for both eyes.

3d is 400x240 per eye
2d is 800x240 per eye

I think it is the other way around: 400x240 for 2D, 800x240 for 3D, but split across two eyes.

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